Crafting speed

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Comments

  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members
    GlyphGryph wrote: »
    More of the same from you, I guess. You were done before you started, what with snide dismissal and irrelevant tangent being your go-to strategies.

    But seriously, what exactly do you think I should be doing in order to prevent people like you from screwing this game up?

    Nothing, I think you should go back to reddit where you're probably used to people agreeing with you all the time.
    Where do you get off thinking your idea of what the game should be is more valid than other people's? In my opinion, you are the one who would screw the game up. Which is probably why your own game failed. But yeah, blame other people for your own failure, sure.

    Your arrogance amazes me.

    Now, I said I'm done here.
  • dealwithitdogdealwithitdog Texas Join Date: 2016-06-09 Member: 218343Members
    edited August 2016
    @GlyphGryph and @EnglishInfidel. Y'all both need to chill. You're both acting arrogant AF, and this is a forum for discussions, not flame wars. Your arguments have both depreciated into name-calling and personal attacks. Stop. Seriously.
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members
    andrewcoja wrote: »
    Don't fix what isn't broken. I'm not going to come on the forums and post about how I like every single aspect of the game in hopes that they won't ruin it. I don't see how people posting on the forum now because they don't like the change is any different from you saying you didn't like it before. It's just as valid except now that you've gotten your way, you don't want there to be any chance it might go back.

    1. It wasn't broken, but it wasn't perfect either. That's why they're trying to find ways to make it better.
    2. There's a big difference between giving your input regularly and only coming along with a complaint but no suggestions for any alternative. Nobody ever said they liked the fab system in all the threads we've had airing our thoughts about it previously. That's why this is so frustrating.
    3. I haven't got my way, my way would be more like 30 minute wait for a knife to be completed, because as I've said, it feels more realistic within the sci-fi rules we've been given. This game isn't being made just for me by my own team.
    4. Rest assured, it will go back. That's what makes this ultimately a pointless discussion.

    @GlyphGryph and @EnglishInfidel. Y'all both need to chill. You're both acting arrogant AF, and this is a forum for discussions, not flame wars. Your arguments have both depreciated into name-calling and personal attacks. Stop. Seriously.

    You're not wrong, I realise it's getting out of hand and that's why I'm done with him before the banhammer is felt. Though I do think we can both take it, and have taken worse.

    It wouldn't even surprise me if it was the start of a beautiful friendship, it wouldn't be the first time.

    Sorry for being a d**k, @GlyphGryph, we just have to agree to disagree.
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members
    Mirality wrote: »
    Can you point at some of these threads?

    Search for threads about realism. It's never had its own thread (I don't think) but it usually pops up as something that needs addressing before other things are. The most recent I can think of is when we were discussing how unscientific and unrealistic the situation was building a base deep down in an abyss. Various things were brought up, including how the crafting system needs an overhaul and it should be prioritised over other things.
    Mirality wrote: »
    I don't know what game you've been playing, but 30 minute construction time doesn't fit any of the rules already established by this game. Perhaps you're thinking of a different one.

    Maybe I should rephrase.

    Waiting 30 minutes seems more feasible for some futuristic technology made by the Alterra Corp. It makes a certain kind of sense, and is somewhat believable given the setting and technology.

    Seeing something appear in seconds seems more like Elder Scrolls magic than any imaginable science, and (for certain people) is a real immersion killer.

    You don't have to agree, or disagree, it's just a factual statement.

  • MiralityMirality New Zealand Join Date: 2016-08-05 Member: 221004Members
    Realism is overrated. A coherent narrative is more important (and by this I don't just mean the story, I mean that gameplay should be consistent with the lore, and the lore should be internally self-consistent, but neither needs to be "realistic" by our current definitions).

    More importantly, though, realism should never trump fun. And there's nothing fun about crafting delays, they're always just a contrivance. Sure, you don't necessarily need to do nothing while waiting for them, but it's still there for no purpose other than to waste your time. That's fine in an MMO (which is also there for no purpose other than to waste your time), but I would prefer that sort of thing be kept well away from single-player games. (Obviously it's up to the devs, though.)

    If I recall correctly, you mentioned Warframe in an earlier post. This makes me curious where you sit on the "should this game have multiplayer" question. If you're one of the ones clamouring for multiplayer, then your argument makes a bit more sense -- though I still don't agree with it.
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members
    I've never played Warframe, that wasn't me.
    But your post is nothing but opinion.
    Mirality wrote: »
    Realism is overrated. A coherent narrative is more important
    Opinion. Subjective. Some would disagree.
    Mirality wrote: »
    More importantly, though, realism should never trump fun. And there's nothing fun about crafting delays, they're always just a contrivance.
    Opinion. Subjective. Some definitely disagree.
    To a lot of people, the more realism, the more immersion, the less the need to suspend disbelief, the more fun.
    Mirality wrote: »
    but it's still there for no purpose other than to waste your time.
    This is simply untrue. I've stated in previous posts potential purposes for a timer or a cool down period. No half decent developer sets out to implement something with the sole purpose to waste their customer's time. That would be utterly stupid and ridiculous.
    Mirality wrote: »
    "should this game have multiplayer" question.
    Personally, I don't care. If it did get multiplayer, I'm sure I'd have a blast with it, but I'd still much prefer to find someone with my own taste so we can install some hardcore mods and play on our own server.

    Otherwise I'd prefer to play single player, modded to my own preference, than any multiplayer experience.

    I know I've said it a dozen times already, but it comes down to preference.
    Some people were happy playing Fallout: NV vanilla.
    I'm the kind of guy who installed the hardcore, enhanced crafting, remove 90% of guns and loot, and the one-shot-kill mods.
    And in my own, personal opinion, I had the much more enjoyable, satisfying and rewarding experience.
  • LaserFaceLaserFace USA Join Date: 2016-08-13 Member: 221235Members
    edited August 2016
    Fathom wrote: »
    The reaction to my post is proving its point.

    Well, you are the only person (as of this time of posting) who has gone back to hit disagree with every single one of my posts up to now. The ONLY person, to EVERY post (what little of them there are so far). The timestamps also show them all dished out in sequence within two minutes, to posts made across a span of hours. Impressive dedication.

    So I guess you do feel it's a valid tactic regardless of how you word it.

    Hopefully, that isn't taken as a sign for people to go back and hammer the disagree button on all those post retroactively. But then, that would be "passive aggressive bullying.".

    So Clearly the old guard in favor of drawn out timers won't pull that, if they are actually above such things.

    EDIT: "Fathom disagreed with you saying they disagree with every one of your posts". Go figure.
  • dealwithitdogdealwithitdog Texas Join Date: 2016-06-09 Member: 218343Members
    Mirality wrote: »
    This is simply untrue. I've stated in previous posts potential purposes for a timer or a cool down period. No half decent developer sets out to implement something with the sole purpose to waste their customer's time. That would be utterly stupid and ridiculous.
    Clearly you haven't encountered casual mobile game developers. That's what they do best.
    He did say half decent :wink:

  • MiralityMirality New Zealand Join Date: 2016-08-05 Member: 221004Members
    Mirality wrote: »
    This is simply untrue. I've stated in previous posts potential purposes for a timer or a cool down period. No half decent developer sets out to implement something with the sole purpose to waste their customer's time. That would be utterly stupid and ridiculous.
    Clearly you haven't encountered casual mobile game developers. That's what they do best.
    He did say half decent :wink:
    Touché.
  • raven0akraven0ak finalnd Join Date: 2016-01-15 Member: 211425Members
    Well, gotta add now something meaningful here: instead of going left or right (keep time) <-> (remove time) why not go find middle ground that satisfies both parties.

    lets observe a little what card is "remove time" party really using. Scanner,habitat builder, flash light, welder and laser cutter all cluster together as needed tools for explorer and two of em been used as examples already. So instead of running "keep" or "remove" I propose alter time to build into something of 30-40 seconds : keeps time but doesn't make it too time taking for necessity equipment's.
    on other hand I personally think seaglide and debloyables are in good spot now, so is stasis rifle and propulsion cannon and rest that's coming. Be mindful that most of time you craft these tools only once with exception of probably beacons.
    (materials and survival knife are somewhat more than okey level, would prolly increase time for rebreather into 9sec, advanced wiring kit and computer chip into 7sec aka minor adjustments only)
  • JamezorgJamezorg United Kingdom Join Date: 2016-05-15 Member: 216788Members
    I know this is the internet and all, but can't we just respect each other's opinions? I expressed my thoughts on the matter with one post, some of you agreed, some of you disagreed, that's completely fine if you disagree. I respect everyone's opinions, I know what I say won't change anyone's opinions, so I will say no more than what I've already said, I'll make no more points than what I've already said. Both sides have valid arguments, and I just side with one more than the other. But, hey, it's the internet, "how dare I share my opinion", right?
  • MiralityMirality New Zealand Join Date: 2016-08-05 Member: 221004Members
  • dealwithitdogdealwithitdog Texas Join Date: 2016-06-09 Member: 218343Members
    edited August 2016
    @Mirality
    That's basically everyone here. (Myself included)
  • MiralityMirality New Zealand Join Date: 2016-08-05 Member: 221004Members
    @Mirality
    That's basically everyone here. (Myself included)
    thatsthejoke.gif
  • dealwithitdogdealwithitdog Texas Join Date: 2016-06-09 Member: 218343Members
    Mirality wrote: »
    @Mirality
    That's basically everyone here. (Myself included)
    thatsthejoke.gif

    4xgoi7urk7zl.gif
  • Mr_EndarMr_Endar Join Date: 2016-03-05 Member: 213859Members
    Wrong.
    The reason why people are complaining is because this change ruins the game as is.

    I couldn't care less about opinion of some random people over the internet, however I do care about the state of the game Subnautica I play.


    Also, for example Valve is infamous for totally ignoring community feedback. The result: in 2014 average maximum simultaneous amount of people playing Team Fortress 2 was 100K. Now it is 62K.
    Another example - Blizzard - since the release of SC2 LoTV game has lost a lot of players. The reason - several annoying mechanics that were added to the game. David Kim said that the changes were to make the game more spectacular during the tournaments - however the pro-gamers represent the miniscule amount of players, and polishing the game for them doesn't look like valid strategy.

    If devs are not getting the feedback, or ignoring it, the game would bleed players.


    GlyphGryph
    +100
    Man, do I envy your vocabulary)

    English is my third language and it limits my ability to express my thoughts(
  • raven0akraven0ak finalnd Join Date: 2016-01-15 Member: 211425Members
    like explained bit earlier, maybe change track of this talk from "turn left or turn right" into "hows middle road"
    instead of lashing with "remove time" rather ponder "what times one would be okey" as in ...what items precisely have too long craft time and in what ones craft times are on better side.
    please note that remove or keep shouldn't even be option, rather what should be minded is how to fine tune times to be fitting

    in that note I again express where I think times should be lowered to half or so: Scanner , Builder , Welder , Cutter , Flash Light
    reason: these are necessity equipment's for starting and exploring (tho Laser cutter is bit advanced level so maybe it can be on 60sec instead of 40sec field to craft)
  • Mr_EndarMr_Endar Join Date: 2016-03-05 Member: 213859Members
    like explained bit earlier, maybe change track of this talk from "turn left or turn right" into "hows middle road"
    instead of lashing with "remove time" rather ponder "what times one would be okey" as in ...what items precisely have too long craft time and in what ones craft times are on better side.
    How long construction time improves gamer experience? How it makes game better?
  • raven0akraven0ak finalnd Join Date: 2016-01-15 Member: 211425Members
    edited August 2016
    Mr_Endar wrote: »
    like explained bit earlier, maybe change track of this talk from "turn left or turn right" into "hows middle road"
    instead of lashing with "remove time" rather ponder "what times one would be okey" as in ...what items precisely have too long craft time and in what ones craft times are on better side.
    How long construction time improves gamer experience? How it makes game better?

    similar question is "How instant gratification makes game better?"
    also I must point that vocal major tends never be true major so this makes me wonder do silent major like or dislike time :) hence rather than keep arguing of keep or remove, try find middle ground that satisfies both parties
  • dealwithitdogdealwithitdog Texas Join Date: 2016-06-09 Member: 218343Members
    Mr_Endar wrote: »
    like explained bit earlier, maybe change track of this talk from "turn left or turn right" into "hows middle road"
    instead of lashing with "remove time" rather ponder "what times one would be okey" as in ...what items precisely have too long craft time and in what ones craft times are on better side.
    How long construction time improves gamer experience? How it makes game better?

    There have been MANY benefits explained to you specifically, and you've said that they aren't benefits. Its clear your mind is made up, so why continue this?
  • andrewcojaandrewcoja earth Join Date: 2016-01-30 Member: 212322Members
    andrewcoja wrote: »
    Don't fix what isn't broken. I'm not going to come on the forums and post about how I like every single aspect of the game in hopes that they won't ruin it. I don't see how people posting on the forum now because they don't like the change is any different from you saying you didn't like it before. It's just as valid except now that you've gotten your way, you don't want there to be any chance it might go back.

    1. It wasn't broken, but it wasn't perfect either. That's why they're trying to find ways to make it better.
    2. There's a big difference between giving your input regularly and only coming along with a complaint but no suggestions for any alternative. Nobody ever said they liked the fab system in all the threads we've had airing our thoughts about it previously. That's why this is so frustrating.
    3. I haven't got my way, my way would be more like 30 minute wait for a knife to be completed, because as I've said, it feels more realistic within the sci-fi rules we've been given. This game isn't being made just for me by my own team.
    4. Rest assured, it will go back. That's what makes this ultimately a pointless discussion.

    We did come with with a suggestion for an alternative, the alternative is to not have artificial wait times. Why is 30 minutes more realistic? What about this world makes it seem like their technology isn't good enough to print a knife quickly? The fact that it spits out a knife really fast makes it seem like it's far in the future. What's next after these increased wait times? Should I wait two weeks for the game to build a multi-purpose room? If a knife should take 30 minutes, surely an object that large would take even longer. What do I do while waiting for my first multipurpose room to build? I can't really collect resources because there's no where to put them because my lifepod is all filled up. I can't use floating storage boxes because they don't hold enough and it would probably take two hours for them to build. Making people wait in a game for no reason is bad design. If you have to add in artificial waiting to make your game longer, you should find something else to do that takes up time while still engaging the player.
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