Well, I know Obraxis made the card, but I was referring to the "Space peaches joke" made by someone whose name I can't remember.
Obraxis implied that he made the joke as well, but even if I misread that, it said "NO LONGER can I survive on 4 space peaches" - in other words, it was NOT a manipulative lie as has been claimed, but confirmation that the change had been successfully implemented.
I can confirm that eating too much of anything at one time will cause the "bleeding" (presumably vomiting).
Just tested on stable - it seemed to be around 10 before I got the "blood loss" message, although I continued eating and they filled my bars right back up again. Might need to experiment a bit more with that. Also, if you don't let yourself get too hungry, or take them in over a longer period, then it seems like you shouldn't have a problem. In other words, this is only a big deal if you allow yourself to start getting starvation warnings before you eat. If you're going to be away from base for a long time, you can always bring cured fish and bottled water with you. If you're going back and forth a lot, you can grab a couple fruit here and there and be fine. The idea that farming is "useless" because lantern fruit were nerfed is absurd. And lantern fruit WAS overpowered. One single tree should not sustain you indefinitely. And it could.
I did not know that the stillsuit had been removed. That was one gizmo that was actually useful.
Are you talking experimental? It's still on stable.
EDIT: One thing I wish we could do is create dried fruit/veggies, much like we cure fish, presumably with the same water penalty involved. Or use various plants to craft nutrient bars. That'd be sweet.
I dislike that the majority of the edible plant items (creep vines, lantern fruit, etc) aren't as useful a food source as fish. I guess it's kind of a flavor/worldbuilding thing for me. I understand why the creep vines shouldn't be a reliable food source, but by the time I came across the lanternfruit, it was already late enough in the game that I had a massive supply of fish on my hands. I feel like, if I can sustain myself on four space sunfish, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to sustain myself on four space peaches.
If anything needed changing, I think I would've preferred to see the lanternfruit moved to the Mountains island - there's almost nothing there, and it would've made sense to have such a powerful item be smack bang in the middle of reaper territory. Felt a little cheated, to be honest, that there wasn't any awesome loot (unless I missed something?) on that island.
If anything needed changing, I think I would've preferred to see the lanternfruit moved to the Mountains island - there's almost nothing there, and it would've made sense to have such a powerful item be smack bang in the middle of reaper territory. Felt a little cheated, to be honest, that there wasn't any awesome loot (unless I missed something?) on that island.
No food there at the moment, but there is going to be a precursor base and a really big gun. Who knows what else will be lurking there when its complete...
I'm starting to feel unpleasantness like I used to feel with Blizzard when I played WoW. Patches should add more to the game than they remove. Now we have no stillsuit, no reinforced dive suit, and one of three farmable food plants basically removed (it's not a farmable food plant if it isn't "staple" enough to take you from single-digit hunger and/or thirst to full without incurring a "bleeding" penalty).
I'll be honest, I don't see the gameplay benefit in any of that, at all. Those are all features we could very much use and enjoy, in multiple playstyles. There's no reason to remove them and I'd really like to hear what the Devs thought that reason could possibly be.
As far as Lantern Fruit specifically goes, there was plenty of room between the old nutrition & hydration values and the new ones that would have allowed them to still be useful but less OP. Just like the Seaglide power nerf, this is MUCH too far of an overkill nerf. This much ought to be obvious, honestly. Shouldn't take a lot of debating to see that.
Just like the Seaglide power nerf, this is MUCH too far of an overkill nerf. This much ought to be obvious, honestly. Shouldn't take a lot of debating to see that.
Actually it seems like it takes debating since I don't share your view. According to Sidchicken it takes 10 fruits until your penalized, so you can still use a lantern tree to regain 45 food and 27 water. I can see myself using the lantern fruits to bridge the last bits in my bars after eating a reginald. In that way the lantern fruits have (for me) a new function instead of being the perfect nutritions option they were.
Were would you like to set the numbers to see this as a non-overkill nerf?
I'm starting to feel unpleasantness like I used to feel with Blizzard when I played WoW. Patches should add more to the game than they remove.
Keep in mind that WoW was a completed game whereas Subnautica hasn't been officially released yet. I think there's going to be a lot of tweaks all over the place trying to find the right balance before we hit 1.0. Its part of the joys (and sorrows) of early access games.
yomamaOn the freewayJoin Date: 2016-04-17Member: 215861Members
I recall reading a comment a while ago that said essentially that once you had fruit you could completely ignore the survival part of the survival game. That seemed wrong, but rebalancing vs making a game needlessly grindy can be a very fine line.
I recall reading a comment a while ago that said essentially that once you had fruit you could completely ignore the survival part of the survival game. That seemed wrong, but rebalancing vs making a game needlessly grindy can be a very fine line.
It's not really true, unless you're the type to never go far from your base. Fruit couldn't be used as a travel food because it degraded too quickly (within a few seconds), but it was a perfect source of both food and water when standing right by a tree in your base or Cyclops. Some people think that's OP; personally I thought it was a good way of "teching up" once you were past the basic-survival part of the game. (It's a bit silly to still be scrounging for food/water after you have a Cyclops.)
Though you can still do that, it's just a bit more busy-work. Instead of having one or two permanent trees that produce fruit as you need them, you need to have a few other plants or fish as well, which tend to require knife durability or fabricator power to process. But cured fish and water bottles are the only useful travel food.
The fact that the map is so small means "travel food" is not an issue. You don't need to pack a picnic when you're never more than a few minutes from home.
Especially because you're full of resources that need delivering home anyway, long before you're dangerously hungry or thirsty.
narfblatUtah, USAJoin Date: 2016-05-15Member: 216799Members, Forum Moderators, Forum staff
Lanternfruit take too many to eat to fill, while marblemelon take too long to grow. However, combining the two should work wonderfully. You only need a marblemelon or two mixed with many lanterns, and maybe a stock of large waters if stillsuit is gone. The only difficulty is making sure you keep some marblemelon seeds; I put a few in a locker, just in case.
I'm starting to feel unpleasantness like I used to feel with Blizzard when I played WoW. Patches should add more to the game than they remove. Now we have no stillsuit, no reinforced dive suit, and one of three farmable food plants basically removed (it's not a farmable food plant if it isn't "staple" enough to take you from single-digit hunger and/or thirst to full without incurring a "bleeding" penalty).
Reinforced Dive Suit and Still Suit have not been removed. In fact we just completed some concept art on those, so that we can make unique models, the way the Radiation Suit has it's own model. If those are not obtainable in game then it's a bug, but as far as I was aware of you can still craft them.
Reinforced Dive Suit and Still Suit have not been removed. In fact we just completed some concept art on those, so that we can make unique models, the way the Radiation Suit has it's own model. If those are not obtainable in game then it's a bug, but as far as I was aware of you can still craft them.
At least the reinforced suit has been out of stable for a few updates now. I think it was possible to use cheats to obtain it but no way to craft it.
Reinforced Dive Suit and Still Suit have not been removed. In fact we just completed some concept art on those, so that we can make unique models, the way the Radiation Suit has it's own model. If those are not obtainable in game then it's a bug, but as far as I was aware of you can still craft them.
Kinda concerned if you can miss something like that. Reinforced Dive Suit has been out of stable for six months (don't start with the blueprint, nowhere to obtain it). Stillsuit is unavailable in experimental (same reason).
Edit: double-checked to be sure. Don't know if something changed in the past few days or I'm misremembering, but Stillsuit shows in experimental as 'ingredients unknown'. It's there, but it can't be crafted.
All my bases have two towers, built with stacking 5 MPRs and building large Alien Tanks.
The left Tower (they are comnected with a T-Section) is filled to the brim with Airsacks, the right tower with Reginalds.
All Problems solved. There are places, like the vast bloodvine Biome near the floating islands, where you find so much salt, you could dry up a whole lake with.
I always build two lockers, one filled with bleached water and one filled with cured Regis. Sames goes for the Cyclops.
Yeah i planted this trees, but they are just deco for me, with nice glowing fruits. So,etimes i grab one and eat it, if im passing through my gardensection, but most of the time im on a strict diet of fish and water xD
Im enjoying steam stable atm and in my 20-30 hours of exploring and having fun, i didnt even build the stillsuit. Fish and Fishwater... Best friends for every situation
I'm sure all the plants will become more viable once you can cook them, hopfully when the nutrient block is able to be crafted.
As a fan of Rimworld, I would love to see a new piece of seabase equipment that converts any organic matter into Nutrient Paste Blocks. Kind of like a bioreactor for your stomach.
The current problem is more or less that people like me do not want to deplete the local fauna to the point where the ocean is a liveless wasteland. So using plants as nutrition is indeed a good idea.
However you can not sustain yourself long enough with these things when you are out and about because they take up huge inventory space and they decompose. Water is much easier to carry around as it can be produced and carried easily. I always advocated being able to craft these nutrient blocks. Basically you would need one piece of every edible plant item to craft one of these and to replenish 50 food. Maybe it could decrease you rehydration level by 5 as well.
TetrapodWastelands of CaliforniaJoin Date: 2016-08-04Member: 220973Members
edited August 2016
Just make the surface plants require watering and the aquafarming require food. Maybe not make it a chore but make it so you have to plant certain species of "plants" in aquariums for the fish to eat. The amount of fish that spawn would depend on available food. Less food less fish, wrong food or no food and no fish. Change the spawn rates of fish by nutrition value.
Balance them so players can pick any species they want. Maybe a Spadefish grows slow but achieves the same amount of nutrition than a boomerang that might in bulk.
If you tinker with the AI, maybe some fish don't like swimming with other fish. Come back after a exploration and find you only have one type of fish in a tank...or just one fish because they're territorial.
You can be just as annoying with plants. Some plants will only grow on a specific island or only grow in bright light conditions--above or near the surface. Some plants grow better with proper day/night cycles. Many plants hate narrow spectrum white lights. Grow lights?
Nerf growing plants in the sub. Not enough light.
As for surface plants, maybe not make it so your always watering but do make it so that if you want to live off fruit alone your gonna need lots of water. Less water and slower fruit production. No water and dead plant after awhile.
Don't agree on rotting fruit. Some plants do allow their fruit to "rot" on the vine but perenial plants usually just dump finished fruit. Oh that'd be fun. Come back to your week long excursion and find wilted lantern fruit trees and a floor full of smelly, rotten fruit.
Also eating fish on the go should be a nono for some fish and some plants. Must be cooked or prepared to remove the toxins. Make some fish edible only after salting.
Make salt preserved fish really increase your dehydration levels.
Now you'd have survival challenges of figuring out what fish you can keep, how easy they'll be to keep and what plants you want or need to grow.
Make a dehydration module that dehydrates fish and fruit. Requires salt and produces a small bottle of water as a benefit. Not keen on the idea since it might be a useless one trick pony.
Comments
Just tested on stable - it seemed to be around 10 before I got the "blood loss" message, although I continued eating and they filled my bars right back up again. Might need to experiment a bit more with that. Also, if you don't let yourself get too hungry, or take them in over a longer period, then it seems like you shouldn't have a problem. In other words, this is only a big deal if you allow yourself to start getting starvation warnings before you eat. If you're going to be away from base for a long time, you can always bring cured fish and bottled water with you. If you're going back and forth a lot, you can grab a couple fruit here and there and be fine. The idea that farming is "useless" because lantern fruit were nerfed is absurd. And lantern fruit WAS overpowered. One single tree should not sustain you indefinitely. And it could.
Are you talking experimental? It's still on stable.
EDIT: One thing I wish we could do is create dried fruit/veggies, much like we cure fish, presumably with the same water penalty involved. Or use various plants to craft nutrient bars. That'd be sweet.
If anything needed changing, I think I would've preferred to see the lanternfruit moved to the Mountains island - there's almost nothing there, and it would've made sense to have such a powerful item be smack bang in the middle of reaper territory. Felt a little cheated, to be honest, that there wasn't any awesome loot (unless I missed something?) on that island.
No food there at the moment, but there is going to be a precursor base and a really big gun. Who knows what else will be lurking there when its complete...
I'll be honest, I don't see the gameplay benefit in any of that, at all. Those are all features we could very much use and enjoy, in multiple playstyles. There's no reason to remove them and I'd really like to hear what the Devs thought that reason could possibly be.
As far as Lantern Fruit specifically goes, there was plenty of room between the old nutrition & hydration values and the new ones that would have allowed them to still be useful but less OP. Just like the Seaglide power nerf, this is MUCH too far of an overkill nerf. This much ought to be obvious, honestly. Shouldn't take a lot of debating to see that.
Actually it seems like it takes debating since I don't share your view. According to Sidchicken it takes 10 fruits until your penalized, so you can still use a lantern tree to regain 45 food and 27 water. I can see myself using the lantern fruits to bridge the last bits in my bars after eating a reginald. In that way the lantern fruits have (for me) a new function instead of being the perfect nutritions option they were.
Were would you like to set the numbers to see this as a non-overkill nerf?
Keep in mind that WoW was a completed game whereas Subnautica hasn't been officially released yet. I think there's going to be a lot of tweaks all over the place trying to find the right balance before we hit 1.0. Its part of the joys (and sorrows) of early access games.
Though you can still do that, it's just a bit more busy-work. Instead of having one or two permanent trees that produce fruit as you need them, you need to have a few other plants or fish as well, which tend to require knife durability or fabricator power to process. But cured fish and water bottles are the only useful travel food.
Especially because you're full of resources that need delivering home anyway, long before you're dangerously hungry or thirsty.
At least the reinforced suit has been out of stable for a few updates now. I think it was possible to use cheats to obtain it but no way to craft it.
Kinda concerned if you can miss something like that. Reinforced Dive Suit has been out of stable for six months (don't start with the blueprint, nowhere to obtain it). Stillsuit is unavailable in experimental (same reason).
Edit: double-checked to be sure. Don't know if something changed in the past few days or I'm misremembering, but Stillsuit shows in experimental as 'ingredients unknown'. It's there, but it can't be crafted.
Why? Quite simple.
All my bases have two towers, built with stacking 5 MPRs and building large Alien Tanks.
The left Tower (they are comnected with a T-Section) is filled to the brim with Airsacks, the right tower with Reginalds.
All Problems solved. There are places, like the vast bloodvine Biome near the floating islands, where you find so much salt, you could dry up a whole lake with.
I always build two lockers, one filled with bleached water and one filled with cured Regis. Sames goes for the Cyclops.
Yeah i planted this trees, but they are just deco for me, with nice glowing fruits. So,etimes i grab one and eat it, if im passing through my gardensection, but most of the time im on a strict diet of fish and water xD
Im enjoying steam stable atm and in my 20-30 hours of exploring and having fun, i didnt even build the stillsuit. Fish and Fishwater... Best friends for every situation
It wasn't removed, it's just no longer a starting blueprint... and the fragments are, shall we say, very risky to locate (read: in Reaper territory).
As a fan of Rimworld, I would love to see a new piece of seabase equipment that converts any organic matter into Nutrient Paste Blocks. Kind of like a bioreactor for your stomach.
However you can not sustain yourself long enough with these things when you are out and about because they take up huge inventory space and they decompose. Water is much easier to carry around as it can be produced and carried easily. I always advocated being able to craft these nutrient blocks. Basically you would need one piece of every edible plant item to craft one of these and to replenish 50 food. Maybe it could decrease you rehydration level by 5 as well.
The lantern fruit nerf was needed, though.
Balance them so players can pick any species they want. Maybe a Spadefish grows slow but achieves the same amount of nutrition than a boomerang that might in bulk.
If you tinker with the AI, maybe some fish don't like swimming with other fish. Come back after a exploration and find you only have one type of fish in a tank...or just one fish because they're territorial.
You can be just as annoying with plants. Some plants will only grow on a specific island or only grow in bright light conditions--above or near the surface. Some plants grow better with proper day/night cycles. Many plants hate narrow spectrum white lights. Grow lights?
Nerf growing plants in the sub. Not enough light.
As for surface plants, maybe not make it so your always watering but do make it so that if you want to live off fruit alone your gonna need lots of water. Less water and slower fruit production. No water and dead plant after awhile.
Don't agree on rotting fruit. Some plants do allow their fruit to "rot" on the vine but perenial plants usually just dump finished fruit. Oh that'd be fun. Come back to your week long excursion and find wilted lantern fruit trees and a floor full of smelly, rotten fruit.
Also eating fish on the go should be a nono for some fish and some plants. Must be cooked or prepared to remove the toxins. Make some fish edible only after salting.
Make salt preserved fish really increase your dehydration levels.
Now you'd have survival challenges of figuring out what fish you can keep, how easy they'll be to keep and what plants you want or need to grow.
Make a dehydration module that dehydrates fish and fruit. Requires salt and produces a small bottle of water as a benefit. Not keen on the idea since it might be a useless one trick pony.