i agree with Shuttle bug a simple co op will do i have friend on mac and i use pc we both love subnautica and we want co op
Yeah, that was a joke.
Contrary to popular belief, multiplayer and co-op are one and the same, simply one is slightly easier to have than the other. Both of which are pretty much out of the question for at least a few years.
However, hostility had died down a tad bit.
But, @Mxrphy177, if you see a Minion who overuses this emoji
i agree with Shuttle bug a simple co op will do i have friend on mac and i use pc we both love subnautica and we want co op
Yeah, that was a joke.
Contrary to popular belief, multiplayer and co-op are one and the same, simply one is slightly easier to have than the other. Both of which are pretty much out of the question for at least a few years.
However, hostility had died down a tad bit.
But, @Mxrphy177, if you see a Minion who overuses this emoji
Run like the Dickens!
Heh... the minion is too preoccupied with glaring at you at the moment...,
... To be bothered with silly folks who apparently don't comprehend what the title of this thread means.
Granted the developers have already said there will be NO multiplayer, and granted I'll probably be flamed by those here who feel the need to point that out, but I feel there is still a valid argument to include multiplayer in Subnautica and that it's actually against the best interests of the game to not do so.
Starting out, let's talk about the difficulty of adding multiplayer into Subnautica. A lot of people argue that doing so is a huge undertaking and it would require some huge massive rewrite of the game to make it happen. This is a completely invalid argument, considering there's already a fairly functional multiplayer mod in development by a small group of people working in their free time. If the developers simply don't know how to add multiplayer maybe they should reach out to these mod developers and hire them as either some form of consultants or contract workers. Make the multiplayer mod an official addition to the game, so to speak. The developers over at Kerbal Space Program did this successfully a number of times with mod developers, who were more than happy to see their stuff added to the official game, during their alpha/beta phases.
Subnautica is already built for co-op multiplayer. Through single play I've created numerous bases and numerous vehicles all over the map, showing that the map is capable of handling more than one base or vehicle. The only limitation I can see in this area would be resource limitations, which is easily solved by simply adding a respawn timer to resources (if one doesn't already exist). In addition, once a resource timer exists it would also be fairly simple to allow it to be configurable by the host. In a co-op environment, since everyone is a part of the same team (and likely friends/family) you don't have to worry about adding locks or "owners" to storage bins or base doors either. You can leave all of the structures, crafting, and vehicles as-is.
Now I want to get into why NOT including multiplayer is actually a huge failure to the STORY of Subnautica. Throughout the story of Subnautica you are constantly inundated with messages from other survivors in other life pods. They're either trapped, under attack, on the move to a rendezvous, or "safe and sound" in their life pods. This leaves you expecting to run into other people (or players) while going around the map. The fact that you receive so many distress signals from other survivors, and you end up finding NOBODY, is actually one of the worst parts of this game. The Aurora is a huge ship with a large crew, and for you to be the only survivor to make it out of a life pod alive and then survive beyond that is absolutely ridiculous and quite hard to believe. It would be far more realistic of a story if you were to actually find some survivors and then work together to build, explore, and survive.
Now let's actually talk about equipment. Operating the Seamoth or Prawn Suit is certainly a job for a single individual however they could have many co-op roles as well. That said, the Cyclops is quite a handful for solo operation. It even announces, when you enter the Cyclops, that it's designed to be operated by a crew of three. So why would you have a vehicle that's such a handful in a single player game? It's a practically useless machine. As soon as you come under attack you might as well consider your Cyclops lost since you can't maintain your shield and pilot out of danger, while managing your power cells and performing repairs. With two players you could have someone swapping out power cells and doing repairs while you maintain your shield and pilot out of danger, or piloting a Seamoth as an escort with it's energy pulse to keep away the leviathan attacks. With one player, that Cyclops is almost guaranteed to become a pile of junk at the bottom of the sea in no time. You might as well not even build it. I certainly don't.
There's also a drastic difference when talking "co-op" and "multiplayer", when you get down to it. The term Multiplayer is an umbrella term that deals with a game that allows more than one player at the same time, while the term "Co-op" is a specific form of multiplayer. To say including "multiplayer" in Subnautica would be too difficult is just a cop-out, in my opinion. Yea, it's too difficult to make Subnautica into a huge dedicated server community with server browsers and 50 players per map. I don't see anyone asking for that though. What people want is a small co-op mode just for them and a couple friends and it's my personal belief that Subnautica practically demands this type of game mode. Specifically a mode where one person hosts the game from their main menu and another player (or two) joins in once the game is loaded. Kind of like how in Minecraft you can open your single-player game to others. It doesn't require the developers to host any kind of network infrastructure. Everything is done between host and clients. This is what the mod community is working toward, and I think the developers should seriously reconsider their position on it. The story built into Subnautica does NOT match up with a solo play experience and all of the calls for co-op proves that point.
What the developers don't quite understand is that every game they make will have a heavy impact on their next game. By not listening to a fairly vocal community about a feature that's highly requested they're setting a president and will likely get a lot less "on the fence" purchases with their next early access title. I know I wouldn't have purchased Subnautica if the Devs had said a solid "No" to multiplayer prior to me buying it, and that my experience is going to make me seriously think about buying from this developer again. The attitudes of a developer and the opinions of a community can make or break a game's success (just look at EA and Battlefield 2). Developers need to take the wishes of their communities more seriously.
To that end I'd urge the developers of Subnautica to seriously reconsider their stance on a co-op game mode. At minimum, approach the developers of the co-op mod to see if it's possible to work together to make it an official addition to Subnautica.
narfblatUtah, USAJoin Date: 2016-05-15Member: 216799Members, Forum Moderators, Forum staff
@ViperZeroOne just keep in mind there is a huge difference between "a fairly functional mod" and "a multiplayer game acceptable for commercial release". It is in the polish that stuff often becomes trickiest, and players would be much more critical of content they had to pay for. The developers currently don't have the funds to make this into a fully fledged co-op or other multiplayer at this time. If anything does change, they'll let us know.
By the way, I haven't seen any updates to that mod's thread since October. It's possible they have run into huge roadblocks, or they are finding that changes being made to the game are breaking functions of their multiplayer mod. Either one matches potential problems a developer might have.
Finally, this game works fine as a single-player game. The other lifepods are there to let us know how lucky we are; our knock to the head was nothing compared to the fate of the others who landed here. The Cyclops being recommended for more people than we have is how life goes; we don't always have the ideal situation. We are alone, until we can find our own escape route.
Just keep in mind there is a huge difference between "a fairly functional mod" and "a multiplayer game acceptable for commercial release". It is in the polish that stuff often becomes trickiest, and players would be much more critical of content they had to pay for. The developers currently don't have the funds to make this into a fully fledged co-op or other multiplayer at this time. If anything does change, they'll let us know.
Not to be rude, but that's a fairly poor argument. Subnautica is currently in an alpha, early access, state. It already has bugs, graphical glitches, and is far from acceptable as a commercial release. The game isn't even completed and is currently lacking an ending. How exactly does that count as being "polished"? Nowhere in my comment did I state that they should grab the multiplayer mod and throw it in a patch that will be available tomorrow. I stated they should get in contact with the multiplayer mod developers and see if they can work cooperatively in making it an official addition to the game. That's an extremely realistic objective and, as I stated, has worked very well for other small developers.
By the way, I haven't seen any updates to that mod's thread since October. It's possible they have run into huge roadblocks, or they are finding that changes being made to the game are breaking functions of their multiplayer mod. Either one matches potential problems a developer might have.
Or the one developer went back to class and doesn't have the time to work on it. Developing that mod isn't his full-time job. As I said it's something he does in his free time. I'd expect to see some development happening around the Christmas holidays probably. This is how "free time" development usually occurs. Hell, even the developers of Subnautica have vanished from time to time for months on end.
That said, from what I've seen the multiplayer mod is fairly functional. They've had multiple players in the game at the same time, on board a cyclops, accessing storage bins with real-time changes occurring. It's far from a pipe dream. Yea, it requires polish, but so does Subnautica itself.
Finally, this game works fine as a single-player game. The other lifepods are there to let us know how lucky we are; our knock to the head was nothing compared to the fate of the others who landed here. The Cyclops being recommended for more people than we have is how life goes; we don't always have the ideal situation. We are alone, until we can find our own escape route.
There's a big difference between something working "fine" as a single-player game and something being an "exceptional" experience. There are many "fine" games out there, and if that's all the developers care about than their goals of making it big in the software industry will fade to working the drive-thru at McDonalds.
The fates of the other survivors, and that you never find any, is actually fairly ridiculous to be completely honest. I got called to a life pod where they said they were fine and waiting for rescue. When I got there I found the pod, in completely SAFE shallow water, upside down with the side ripped open. Totally unrealistic, and has nothing to do with how "lucky" I was. To me it was an immersion breaking experience. Co-op probably wouldn't have changed that specific experience, but finding another player would have been more realistic than finding a destroyed life pod in perfectly safe waters.
But if you need more convincing, think about how awesome it would be to pilot a fully equipped Cyclops into hostile waters with a friend in a Seamoth (perimeter defense) providing escort.
narfblatUtah, USAJoin Date: 2016-05-15Member: 216799Members, Forum Moderators, Forum staff
The game has been polished a lot, and the lack of ending is only because the developers are holding that back for release. The release date is expected to be sometime in January.
I misspoke earlier; when I said it works fine, I meant having it single-player sets an isolated feel to the game, which is what I believe they were going for. It is kind of odd to have all other lifepods destroyed, but this is a dangerous world. Reading the log from lifepod 4 indicates a Reaper Leviathan, which can be found further north, toward the front of the Aurora wreckage.
The game has been polished a lot, and the lack of ending is only because the developers are holding that back for release. The release date is expected to be sometime in January.
I actually think that's pretty quick considering the amount of polish I see still needing done. Take, for example, when you build a habitat structure that's half above and half under water. The inside of the habitat (that floor) is half filled with water both when looking from outside and when you're standing inside. This problem continues to exist even in the most recent patch. This issue also plagues the Cyclops, as you can sometimes have it appear as though it's half full of water when it's actually got no water in it. It's just a graphic issue, but not something you'd like to see in a released game. I've also seen numerous cases of creatures drifting through cavern walls, only to appear on the other side. Or attacking you through the solid side of a large coral tube. These are just some of the bug (with many more on the bug reporting forum) that show this game isn't as ready for "commercial release" as the developers would have you believe.
I misspoke earlier; when I said it works fine, I meant having it single-player sets an isolated feel to the game, which is what I believe they were going for. It is kind of odd to have all other lifepods destroyed, but this is a dangerous world. Reading the log from lifepod 4 indicates a Reaper Leviathan, which can be found further north, toward the front of the Aurora wreckage.
I also read that log from pod 4, but the problem there is that the Reaper Leviathan isn't found anywhere near that pod anymore. They've been moved to the rear of the Aurora. The area around pod 4 is now populated with Reefbacks which tends to mean the area is, for the most part, safe. Can't use drifting as an excuse either, since the waypoint was generated when you got the distress call (while everyone was alive). It's just one of many holes in the story that could be filled by having other survivors actually existing. These holes aren't really created by FINDING the life pods. They're created by the distress calls which indicate there are living survivors on the planet, which you never find because they somehow all have worse luck than you do. You've got some that crashed into the planet at full speed, you've got some that blew themselves up with flares or whatnot, others were eaten. It's just a huge list of improbability the more extensive it gets.
In addition, what you mention in regards to the "feeling of isolation" just doesn't exist for me. There isn't a feeling of being isolated because you're always being contacted by other people who are apparently alive. It's like the Schrödinger's cat paradox. As long as you don't open the box (or go and check out the life pods) you get the sense that people are surviving all over the place. The more life pods you discover destroyed, the dumber the whole distress call thing seems. There have been many survival games that give you the sense of isolation and desperation, and none of them hint that there could be other survivors simply because that takes away that sense of isolation.
Now I'm going to throw you a curve ball, as this isn't the first single-player survival game where the community demanded co-op be added. Ever heard of a game called "The Forest"? It was always the intent of the developer to have the game be story driven survival, with a definitive ending to it. Sure, you could spend your time gathering resources and building bases, but there is a story and that story was originally designed for a solo audience. It's practically Subnauticia, although it takes place on an island instead of a seabed. Both games have similar audiences, similar map sizes, and similar linear stories.
During development of The Forest the community stood up and screamed for multiplayer (co-op) to be implemented in the game. After some poking and prodding the developers smartly agreed. Once they implemented the co-op aspect of their game the popularity of it skyrocketed, as did it's sales. Know how they implemented co-op? They simply had the additional players start in different seats on the airplane that crashes during the intro! Why can't the Subnautica people do that? Add a couple more seats to that starting life pod so the co-op players have a place to spawn in, then invite the multiplayer mod developer to join the team. You could even sync blueprint and data pad discoveries between players. It's not rocket science, and it doesn't require a complete rewrite of the game.
When you look at the statistics for Subnautica vs The Forest you'll see that the sales for Subnautica are estimated around 1,744,222 while the sales for The Forest, a very similar survival-style game, are double that at 3,583,264.... That's a MASSIVE difference in sales for 2 games that have such closely identical styles of play and hit early access at roughly the same time.
The biggest difference? One development team listened to the community and added Co-op, the other hasn't. As a co-op player the first thing I do when I find an interesting game on Steam is check to see if there's multiplayer. If not, I strongly reconsider my purchase. Subnauticia was a very odd purchase for me because I normally would have avoided it, not having multiplayer. How many people out there ARE currently avoiding it just because of that? Could be up to half a million people, judging by The Forest's sales. If I was a Subnautica developer I'd be taking that into some serious consideration.
narfblatUtah, USAJoin Date: 2016-05-15Member: 216799Members, Forum Moderators, Forum staff
There's already a second seat in the lifepod, the difficulties lie elsewhere. If you watch the video of the multiplayer mod, there's still a ton of work to be done. It may be that the way "The Forest" was designed was easier to add a multiplayer feature to. There's a million things going on in the code behind the scenes, and some code is going to be easier to change than others. The "fix with a couple lines of code" idea is inherently wrong.
The developers simply don't see it as reasonable at this time. If they change their minds, it won't be a response to a single voice, but the community as a whole. They know many want it without players giving long posts saying how easy it is or that they owe it to us.
They don't usually play survival builder games. One prefers shooters like Overwatch and the other tends to gravitate towards puzzle games like King's Quest.
There is no accounting for taste I know, but they're my friends so what can I do? =P
kingkumacancels Work: distracted by Dwarf FortressJoin Date: 2015-09-25Member: 208137Members
The fates of the other survivors, and that you never find any, is actually fairly ridiculous to be completely honest. I got called to a life pod where they said they were fine and waiting for rescue. When I got there I found the pod, in completely SAFE shallow water, upside down with the side ripped open. Totally unrealistic, and has nothing to do with how "lucky" I was. To me it was an immersion breaking experience. Co-op probably wouldn't have changed that specific experience, but finding another player would have been more realistic than finding a destroyed life pod in perfectly safe waters.
The fates of the other survivors, and that you never find any, is actually fairly ridiculous to be completely honest. I got called to a life pod where they said they were fine and waiting for rescue. When I got there I found the pod, in completely SAFE shallow water, upside down with the side ripped open. Totally unrealistic, and has nothing to do with how "lucky" I was. To me it was an immersion breaking experience. Co-op probably wouldn't have changed that specific experience, but finding another player would have been more realistic than finding a destroyed life pod in perfectly safe waters.
Ever hear of warpers?
Exactly...
There really is NOWHERE COMPLETELY SAFE outside your base, in this game.
Even the Shallows have those Exploding-Popcorn Manatee-Farters and Red-Bellied, Bug-Eyed Swimming Grenades!!
narfblatUtah, USAJoin Date: 2016-05-15Member: 216799Members, Forum Moderators, Forum staff
The only really odd thing is why the warpers don't attack in safe shallows. My guesses are lower carrar infection rate there, or they have trouble navigating certain smaller areas.
The fates of the other survivors, and that you never find any, is actually fairly ridiculous to be completely honest. I got called to a life pod where they said they were fine and waiting for rescue. When I got there I found the pod, in completely SAFE shallow water, upside down with the side ripped open. Totally unrealistic, and has nothing to do with how "lucky" I was. To me it was an immersion breaking experience. Co-op probably wouldn't have changed that specific experience, but finding another player would have been more realistic than finding a destroyed life pod in perfectly safe waters.
Ever hear of warpers?
That's an absolutely ridiculous defense to take considering warpers would have been NOWHERE near the life pod. Why not just say, "Maybe the Giant Laser Cannon shot the pod"? That would be just as unrealistic. Warpers don't exist in the shallows where this pod was, neither do leviathans or anything else big enough to destroy a life pod.
On that topic, I also don't buy the other pod that was taken down by the Stalker (pod four?). Considering my pod was sitting only a few meters away from an area infested with Stalkers, and they took ZERO interest in my pod while taking a LOT of interest in me every time I exited it, it would be highly unlikely for them to attack another identical pod just for the hell of it. Again, just another immersion breaking instance. Just like never finding any survivors (aka other players).
The only really odd thing is why the warpers don't attack in safe shallows. My guesses are lower carrar infection rate there, or they have trouble navigating certain smaller areas.
You obviously didn't find the info in-game that explains the warpers. The warpers are artificially created beings that are in place to protect the alien installations. That's why you usually find them around the vents, giant cannon, and other such installations. There's nothing in the shallows for them to protect, which is why they obviously wouldn't be there. Occasionally you'll find them around deeply sunk chunks of the Aurora, which is also to be expected. Feel free to educate yourself; http://subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Warper
There's already a second seat in the lifepod, the difficulties lie elsewhere. If you watch the video of the multiplayer mod, there's still a ton of work to be done. It may be that the way "The Forest" was designed was easier to add a multiplayer feature to. There's a million things going on in the code behind the scenes, and some code is going to be easier to change than others. The "fix with a couple lines of code" idea is inherently wrong.
The developers simply don't see it as reasonable at this time. If they change their minds, it won't be a response to a single voice, but the community as a whole. They know many want it without players giving long posts saying how easy it is or that they owe it to us.
The difference between what the group behind the multiplayer mod is doing, and the way "The Forest" went about adding multiplayer, are two HUGE differences. When they added multiplayer to "The Forest" the developers were involved which means the effort to add multiplayer had direct access to the game's base coding. When you "mod" a game you're basically hacking the game to make it do what you want it to do. That's a much more difficult and involved way of adding multiplayer to the game. The fact the multiplayer mod is as complete as it is shows that functional multiplayer is quite possible in Subnautica.
What's holding it back is, indeed, the developers. My main point on that is the fact that they're standing around saying it's not possible while a very small mod team is proving them wrong. Sure, they're the developers and they can do whatever the hell they want with their game. I'm not arguing that point. But it doesn't mean it's the right decision. The fact that they outright refuse to even look at adding such a heavily requested feature is (or should be) a huge red flag to anyone who might consider their next early access release.
The only really odd thing is why the warpers don't attack in safe shallows. My guesses are lower carrar infection rate there, or they have trouble navigating certain smaller areas.
You obviously didn't find the info in-game that explains the warpers. The warpers are artificially created beings that are in place to protect the alien installations. That's why you usually find them around the vents, giant cannon, and other such installations. There's nothing in the shallows for them to protect, which is why they obviously wouldn't be there. Occasionally you'll find them around deeply sunk chunks of the Aurora, which is also to be expected. Feel free to educate yourself; http://subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Warper
Please take another look at the article you linked: "Their main purpose is to eliminate any creature infected with the Carar Bacterium should their infection level be high enough, including the player. They can also be found guarding Alien Bases." This indicates the Carar being their main purpose, which I hinted at in the post you quoted. I found your use of "obviously" condescending; I do hope you don't mean to come across that way.
Edit: by the way, where does your "stalker" theory come from? None of us have mentioned it.
narfblatUtah, USAJoin Date: 2016-05-15Member: 216799Members, Forum Moderators, Forum staff
@ViperZeroOne We have no idea the budgets and obstacles each developing team faces( Subnautica vs The Forest). The Subnautica developers did have multiplayer in mind at one time, but they ran into some sort of difficulty. As I stated earlier, it's possible they might change their minds.
Arguing with each other or saying the developers are "holding it back" won't change things. The "right decision" depends a lot on behind-the-scenes circumstances which we don't see. The equation of "more players = more money" ignores the equation of "broke company = no game" equation and all variances thereof.
The whole idea of multiplayer is a bit controversial, with over half of the forums agreeing co-op and multiplayer would complicate things both within the game and withing the community. I don't think multiplayer can’t be done, as the mod team has proven. The problem lies in each individual customer and their personal interests.
Some want a game to play with friends and some don’t.
Personally, I enjoy the game as it is ment to be. Calm, relaxing, and emotionally traumatizing. Frieds would just dampen the atmosphere a little bit for my tases. Of course, others would argue friends would boost replay ability and the overalls energy of the world. Their argument is completely valid, and I do agree with the benefits multiplayer would have on the game and community, financially speaking. @ViperZeroOne made some pretty good arguments, but at the end of the day the solution comes down to the player.
Multiplayer is an issue that cant be easily solved. Personally speaking, I would prefer to leave the game as is, but I do understand the reasoning behind those asking for multiplayer.
The fates of the other survivors, and that you never find any, is actually fairly ridiculous to be completely honest. I got called to a life pod where they said they were fine and waiting for rescue. When I got there I found the pod, in completely SAFE shallow water, upside down with the side ripped open. Totally unrealistic, and has nothing to do with how "lucky" I was. To me it was an immersion breaking experience. Co-op probably wouldn't have changed that specific experience, but finding another player would have been more realistic than finding a destroyed life pod in perfectly safe waters.
Ever hear of warpers?
That's an absolutely ridiculous defense to take considering warpers would have been NOWHERE near the life pod. Why not just say, "Maybe the Giant Laser Cannon shot the pod"? That would be just as unrealistic. Warpers don't exist in the shallows where this pod was, neither do leviathans or anything else big enough to destroy a life pod.
As stated beforehand, the Warper's main goal is to eliminate the Carar. If your logic were to hold true, why aren't there Warpers literally everywhere? Underwater Islands, Sparse Reef, Mushroom Forest, all of which have either Precursor vents, caches, or teleporters, but no Warpers to be found. And besides, these are still sentient beings, they would notice the swath of new, metal objects with living creatures that could catch the disease. Not to mention the kilometer and a half long flaming rocket that plummeted down to the surface. That would probably draw some attention.
On that topic, I also don't buy the other pod that was taken down by the Stalker (pod four?). Considering my pod was sitting only a few meters away from an area infested with Stalkers, and they took ZERO interest in my pod while taking a LOT of interest in me every time I exited it, it would be highly unlikely for them to attack another identical pod just for the hell of it. Again, just another immersion breaking instance. Just like never finding any survivors (aka other players).
Yeah, they didn't. It was the Warpers. Just because they aren't within 10 meters of a given area, doesn't mean they weren't there at all. Warpers were created artificially, therefore, they aren't adapted to a specific biome, meaning that traveling in between two biomes would be as easy as it is for us. Merely swimming.
And let's not forget that as of the time the events in game happen, the Warpers are on supposed "patrol" mode. This would probably mean that instead of moving biome to biome, they would patrol a certain area, as we see them do in-game.
You obviously didn't find the info in-game that explains the warpers. The warpers are artificially created beings that are in place to protect the alien installations. That's why you usually find them around the vents, giant cannon, and other such installations. There's nothing in the shallows for them to protect, which is why they obviously wouldn't be there. Occasionally you'll find them around deeply sunk chunks of the Aurora, which is also to be expected. Feel free to educate yourself; http://subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Warper
I get that you're ornery about there being no multiplayer, but this paragraph was just uncalled for. And the part about the Warpers guarding the Precursor tech isn't entirely true, that's not their only job, and is most definitely the smaller of the two, coming second to the aforementioned Carar purging.
Perhaps the Warpers don't come to the Shallows because they don't need to...
There are more than a multitude of Peepers within this biome and they are after all, the main vessel for carrying the eventual eradication of the Carar throughout the ocean.
The Warpers may have logically assumed that they only need to patrol the biomes where Peepers are much less numerous.
Perhaps the Warpers don't come to the Shallows because they don't need to...
There are more than a multitude of Peepers within this biome and they are after all, the main vessel for carrying the eventual eradication of the Carar throughout the ocean.
The Warpers may have logically assumed that they only need to patrol the biomes where Peepers are much less numerous.
I don't think coop would be very good for this game, anyhow. It's about exploration; not hanging out with your best bud in a multi purpose, (heh; 'porpoise,') room. Also, I do not think that I'd enjoy Subnautica as much as I do now if there was Chat constantly clogging up my screen. Plus, if it were do be a coop game, realistically, it'd be best with a very maximum of three players.
So I digress by stating that if a separate multiplayer game were to be released, I would likely not be at all interested in it.
The fates of the other survivors, and that you never find any, is actually fairly ridiculous to be completely honest. I got called to a life pod where they said they were fine and waiting for rescue. When I got there I found the pod, in completely SAFE shallow water, upside down with the side ripped open. Totally unrealistic, and has nothing to do with how "lucky" I was. To me it was an immersion breaking experience. Co-op probably wouldn't have changed that specific experience, but finding another player would have been more realistic than finding a destroyed life pod in perfectly safe waters.
Ever hear of warpers?
Except the survivors are completly clean, at least until you start swimming and eating the fish. Plus I don't think a warper could pull something out of a lifepod.
I agree with Viper and what he has said on the subject, these are the same thoughts I've had for a while now, however, I've also worked on games before and I know the stressful nature of deadlines.
The way I see it, and could be a definite possibility is finishing what has already been planned, and get it to a largely stable public release. In this case the upcoming 1.0 launch date. Once there, then consider adding in a Co-op mode with a later update. Your game is technically finished, now you can build further onto it.
I'd see this as a more likely scenario. Will it happen? We'll have to wait and see.
I agree with Viper and what he has said on the subject, these are the same thoughts I've had for a while now, however, I've also worked on games before and I know the stressful nature of deadlines.
The way I see it, and could be a definite possibility is finishing what has already been planned, and get it to a largely stable public release. In this case the upcoming 1.0 launch date. Once there, then consider adding in a Co-op mode with a later update. Your game is technically finished, now you can build further onto it.
I'd see this as a more likely scenario. Will it happen? We'll have to wait and see.
That's definitely what will happen if it ever does happen. Though, I doubt UWE will do it themselves. My guess is that they'll outsource the work to another company while they work on any new expansions.
If I were to guess a timeframe, it'll be mid 2019.
But still, let's not get our hopes up. This is still a pretty crazy hypothetical situation.
Comments
Forgot the /s
Heh... the minion is too preoccupied with glaring at you at the moment...,
... To be bothered with silly folks who apparently don't comprehend what the title of this thread means.
Starting out, let's talk about the difficulty of adding multiplayer into Subnautica. A lot of people argue that doing so is a huge undertaking and it would require some huge massive rewrite of the game to make it happen. This is a completely invalid argument, considering there's already a fairly functional multiplayer mod in development by a small group of people working in their free time. If the developers simply don't know how to add multiplayer maybe they should reach out to these mod developers and hire them as either some form of consultants or contract workers. Make the multiplayer mod an official addition to the game, so to speak. The developers over at Kerbal Space Program did this successfully a number of times with mod developers, who were more than happy to see their stuff added to the official game, during their alpha/beta phases.
Subnautica is already built for co-op multiplayer. Through single play I've created numerous bases and numerous vehicles all over the map, showing that the map is capable of handling more than one base or vehicle. The only limitation I can see in this area would be resource limitations, which is easily solved by simply adding a respawn timer to resources (if one doesn't already exist). In addition, once a resource timer exists it would also be fairly simple to allow it to be configurable by the host. In a co-op environment, since everyone is a part of the same team (and likely friends/family) you don't have to worry about adding locks or "owners" to storage bins or base doors either. You can leave all of the structures, crafting, and vehicles as-is.
Now I want to get into why NOT including multiplayer is actually a huge failure to the STORY of Subnautica. Throughout the story of Subnautica you are constantly inundated with messages from other survivors in other life pods. They're either trapped, under attack, on the move to a rendezvous, or "safe and sound" in their life pods. This leaves you expecting to run into other people (or players) while going around the map. The fact that you receive so many distress signals from other survivors, and you end up finding NOBODY, is actually one of the worst parts of this game. The Aurora is a huge ship with a large crew, and for you to be the only survivor to make it out of a life pod alive and then survive beyond that is absolutely ridiculous and quite hard to believe. It would be far more realistic of a story if you were to actually find some survivors and then work together to build, explore, and survive.
Now let's actually talk about equipment. Operating the Seamoth or Prawn Suit is certainly a job for a single individual however they could have many co-op roles as well. That said, the Cyclops is quite a handful for solo operation. It even announces, when you enter the Cyclops, that it's designed to be operated by a crew of three. So why would you have a vehicle that's such a handful in a single player game? It's a practically useless machine. As soon as you come under attack you might as well consider your Cyclops lost since you can't maintain your shield and pilot out of danger, while managing your power cells and performing repairs. With two players you could have someone swapping out power cells and doing repairs while you maintain your shield and pilot out of danger, or piloting a Seamoth as an escort with it's energy pulse to keep away the leviathan attacks. With one player, that Cyclops is almost guaranteed to become a pile of junk at the bottom of the sea in no time. You might as well not even build it. I certainly don't.
There's also a drastic difference when talking "co-op" and "multiplayer", when you get down to it. The term Multiplayer is an umbrella term that deals with a game that allows more than one player at the same time, while the term "Co-op" is a specific form of multiplayer. To say including "multiplayer" in Subnautica would be too difficult is just a cop-out, in my opinion. Yea, it's too difficult to make Subnautica into a huge dedicated server community with server browsers and 50 players per map. I don't see anyone asking for that though. What people want is a small co-op mode just for them and a couple friends and it's my personal belief that Subnautica practically demands this type of game mode. Specifically a mode where one person hosts the game from their main menu and another player (or two) joins in once the game is loaded. Kind of like how in Minecraft you can open your single-player game to others. It doesn't require the developers to host any kind of network infrastructure. Everything is done between host and clients. This is what the mod community is working toward, and I think the developers should seriously reconsider their position on it. The story built into Subnautica does NOT match up with a solo play experience and all of the calls for co-op proves that point.
What the developers don't quite understand is that every game they make will have a heavy impact on their next game. By not listening to a fairly vocal community about a feature that's highly requested they're setting a president and will likely get a lot less "on the fence" purchases with their next early access title. I know I wouldn't have purchased Subnautica if the Devs had said a solid "No" to multiplayer prior to me buying it, and that my experience is going to make me seriously think about buying from this developer again. The attitudes of a developer and the opinions of a community can make or break a game's success (just look at EA and Battlefield 2). Developers need to take the wishes of their communities more seriously.
To that end I'd urge the developers of Subnautica to seriously reconsider their stance on a co-op game mode. At minimum, approach the developers of the co-op mod to see if it's possible to work together to make it an official addition to Subnautica.
By the way, I haven't seen any updates to that mod's thread since October. It's possible they have run into huge roadblocks, or they are finding that changes being made to the game are breaking functions of their multiplayer mod. Either one matches potential problems a developer might have.
Finally, this game works fine as a single-player game. The other lifepods are there to let us know how lucky we are; our knock to the head was nothing compared to the fate of the others who landed here. The Cyclops being recommended for more people than we have is how life goes; we don't always have the ideal situation. We are alone, until we can find our own escape route.
Not to be rude, but that's a fairly poor argument. Subnautica is currently in an alpha, early access, state. It already has bugs, graphical glitches, and is far from acceptable as a commercial release. The game isn't even completed and is currently lacking an ending. How exactly does that count as being "polished"? Nowhere in my comment did I state that they should grab the multiplayer mod and throw it in a patch that will be available tomorrow. I stated they should get in contact with the multiplayer mod developers and see if they can work cooperatively in making it an official addition to the game. That's an extremely realistic objective and, as I stated, has worked very well for other small developers.
Or the one developer went back to class and doesn't have the time to work on it. Developing that mod isn't his full-time job. As I said it's something he does in his free time. I'd expect to see some development happening around the Christmas holidays probably. This is how "free time" development usually occurs. Hell, even the developers of Subnautica have vanished from time to time for months on end.
That said, from what I've seen the multiplayer mod is fairly functional. They've had multiple players in the game at the same time, on board a cyclops, accessing storage bins with real-time changes occurring. It's far from a pipe dream. Yea, it requires polish, but so does Subnautica itself.
There's a big difference between something working "fine" as a single-player game and something being an "exceptional" experience. There are many "fine" games out there, and if that's all the developers care about than their goals of making it big in the software industry will fade to working the drive-thru at McDonalds.
The fates of the other survivors, and that you never find any, is actually fairly ridiculous to be completely honest. I got called to a life pod where they said they were fine and waiting for rescue. When I got there I found the pod, in completely SAFE shallow water, upside down with the side ripped open. Totally unrealistic, and has nothing to do with how "lucky" I was. To me it was an immersion breaking experience. Co-op probably wouldn't have changed that specific experience, but finding another player would have been more realistic than finding a destroyed life pod in perfectly safe waters.
But if you need more convincing, think about how awesome it would be to pilot a fully equipped Cyclops into hostile waters with a friend in a Seamoth (perimeter defense) providing escort.
I misspoke earlier; when I said it works fine, I meant having it single-player sets an isolated feel to the game, which is what I believe they were going for. It is kind of odd to have all other lifepods destroyed, but this is a dangerous world. Reading the log from lifepod 4 indicates a Reaper Leviathan, which can be found further north, toward the front of the Aurora wreckage.
I actually think that's pretty quick considering the amount of polish I see still needing done. Take, for example, when you build a habitat structure that's half above and half under water. The inside of the habitat (that floor) is half filled with water both when looking from outside and when you're standing inside. This problem continues to exist even in the most recent patch. This issue also plagues the Cyclops, as you can sometimes have it appear as though it's half full of water when it's actually got no water in it. It's just a graphic issue, but not something you'd like to see in a released game. I've also seen numerous cases of creatures drifting through cavern walls, only to appear on the other side. Or attacking you through the solid side of a large coral tube. These are just some of the bug (with many more on the bug reporting forum) that show this game isn't as ready for "commercial release" as the developers would have you believe.
I also read that log from pod 4, but the problem there is that the Reaper Leviathan isn't found anywhere near that pod anymore. They've been moved to the rear of the Aurora. The area around pod 4 is now populated with Reefbacks which tends to mean the area is, for the most part, safe. Can't use drifting as an excuse either, since the waypoint was generated when you got the distress call (while everyone was alive). It's just one of many holes in the story that could be filled by having other survivors actually existing. These holes aren't really created by FINDING the life pods. They're created by the distress calls which indicate there are living survivors on the planet, which you never find because they somehow all have worse luck than you do. You've got some that crashed into the planet at full speed, you've got some that blew themselves up with flares or whatnot, others were eaten. It's just a huge list of improbability the more extensive it gets.
In addition, what you mention in regards to the "feeling of isolation" just doesn't exist for me. There isn't a feeling of being isolated because you're always being contacted by other people who are apparently alive. It's like the Schrödinger's cat paradox. As long as you don't open the box (or go and check out the life pods) you get the sense that people are surviving all over the place. The more life pods you discover destroyed, the dumber the whole distress call thing seems. There have been many survival games that give you the sense of isolation and desperation, and none of them hint that there could be other survivors simply because that takes away that sense of isolation.
Now I'm going to throw you a curve ball, as this isn't the first single-player survival game where the community demanded co-op be added. Ever heard of a game called "The Forest"? It was always the intent of the developer to have the game be story driven survival, with a definitive ending to it. Sure, you could spend your time gathering resources and building bases, but there is a story and that story was originally designed for a solo audience. It's practically Subnauticia, although it takes place on an island instead of a seabed. Both games have similar audiences, similar map sizes, and similar linear stories.
During development of The Forest the community stood up and screamed for multiplayer (co-op) to be implemented in the game. After some poking and prodding the developers smartly agreed. Once they implemented the co-op aspect of their game the popularity of it skyrocketed, as did it's sales. Know how they implemented co-op? They simply had the additional players start in different seats on the airplane that crashes during the intro! Why can't the Subnautica people do that? Add a couple more seats to that starting life pod so the co-op players have a place to spawn in, then invite the multiplayer mod developer to join the team. You could even sync blueprint and data pad discoveries between players. It's not rocket science, and it doesn't require a complete rewrite of the game.
When you look at the statistics for Subnautica vs The Forest you'll see that the sales for Subnautica are estimated around 1,744,222 while the sales for The Forest, a very similar survival-style game, are double that at 3,583,264.... That's a MASSIVE difference in sales for 2 games that have such closely identical styles of play and hit early access at roughly the same time.
The biggest difference? One development team listened to the community and added Co-op, the other hasn't. As a co-op player the first thing I do when I find an interesting game on Steam is check to see if there's multiplayer. If not, I strongly reconsider my purchase. Subnauticia was a very odd purchase for me because I normally would have avoided it, not having multiplayer. How many people out there ARE currently avoiding it just because of that? Could be up to half a million people, judging by The Forest's sales. If I was a Subnautica developer I'd be taking that into some serious consideration.
The developers simply don't see it as reasonable at this time. If they change their minds, it won't be a response to a single voice, but the community as a whole. They know many want it without players giving long posts saying how easy it is or that they owe it to us.
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ｓｉｘｔｙ ｄｏｌｌａｒｓ
Then why did they buy the game?
Ever hear of warpers?
Exactly...
There really is NOWHERE COMPLETELY SAFE outside your base, in this game.
Even the Shallows have those Exploding-Popcorn Manatee-Farters and Red-Bellied, Bug-Eyed Swimming Grenades!!
That's an absolutely ridiculous defense to take considering warpers would have been NOWHERE near the life pod. Why not just say, "Maybe the Giant Laser Cannon shot the pod"? That would be just as unrealistic. Warpers don't exist in the shallows where this pod was, neither do leviathans or anything else big enough to destroy a life pod.
On that topic, I also don't buy the other pod that was taken down by the Stalker (pod four?). Considering my pod was sitting only a few meters away from an area infested with Stalkers, and they took ZERO interest in my pod while taking a LOT of interest in me every time I exited it, it would be highly unlikely for them to attack another identical pod just for the hell of it. Again, just another immersion breaking instance. Just like never finding any survivors (aka other players).
You obviously didn't find the info in-game that explains the warpers. The warpers are artificially created beings that are in place to protect the alien installations. That's why you usually find them around the vents, giant cannon, and other such installations. There's nothing in the shallows for them to protect, which is why they obviously wouldn't be there. Occasionally you'll find them around deeply sunk chunks of the Aurora, which is also to be expected. Feel free to educate yourself; http://subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Warper
The difference between what the group behind the multiplayer mod is doing, and the way "The Forest" went about adding multiplayer, are two HUGE differences. When they added multiplayer to "The Forest" the developers were involved which means the effort to add multiplayer had direct access to the game's base coding. When you "mod" a game you're basically hacking the game to make it do what you want it to do. That's a much more difficult and involved way of adding multiplayer to the game. The fact the multiplayer mod is as complete as it is shows that functional multiplayer is quite possible in Subnautica.
What's holding it back is, indeed, the developers. My main point on that is the fact that they're standing around saying it's not possible while a very small mod team is proving them wrong. Sure, they're the developers and they can do whatever the hell they want with their game. I'm not arguing that point. But it doesn't mean it's the right decision. The fact that they outright refuse to even look at adding such a heavily requested feature is (or should be) a huge red flag to anyone who might consider their next early access release.
Please take another look at the article you linked: "Their main purpose is to eliminate any creature infected with the Carar Bacterium should their infection level be high enough, including the player. They can also be found guarding Alien Bases." This indicates the Carar being their main purpose, which I hinted at in the post you quoted. I found your use of "obviously" condescending; I do hope you don't mean to come across that way.
Edit: by the way, where does your "stalker" theory come from? None of us have mentioned it.
Arguing with each other or saying the developers are "holding it back" won't change things. The "right decision" depends a lot on behind-the-scenes circumstances which we don't see. The equation of "more players = more money" ignores the equation of "broke company = no game" equation and all variances thereof.
The whole idea of multiplayer is a bit controversial, with over half of the forums agreeing co-op and multiplayer would complicate things both within the game and withing the community. I don't think multiplayer can’t be done, as the mod team has proven. The problem lies in each individual customer and their personal interests.
Some want a game to play with friends and some don’t.
Personally, I enjoy the game as it is ment to be. Calm, relaxing, and emotionally traumatizing. Frieds would just dampen the atmosphere a little bit for my tases. Of course, others would argue friends would boost replay ability and the overalls energy of the world. Their argument is completely valid, and I do agree with the benefits multiplayer would have on the game and community, financially speaking. @ViperZeroOne made some pretty good arguments, but at the end of the day the solution comes down to the player.
Multiplayer is an issue that cant be easily solved. Personally speaking, I would prefer to leave the game as is, but I do understand the reasoning behind those asking for multiplayer.
As stated beforehand, the Warper's main goal is to eliminate the Carar. If your logic were to hold true, why aren't there Warpers literally everywhere? Underwater Islands, Sparse Reef, Mushroom Forest, all of which have either Precursor vents, caches, or teleporters, but no Warpers to be found. And besides, these are still sentient beings, they would notice the swath of new, metal objects with living creatures that could catch the disease. Not to mention the kilometer and a half long flaming rocket that plummeted down to the surface. That would probably draw some attention.
Yeah, they didn't. It was the Warpers. Just because they aren't within 10 meters of a given area, doesn't mean they weren't there at all. Warpers were created artificially, therefore, they aren't adapted to a specific biome, meaning that traveling in between two biomes would be as easy as it is for us. Merely swimming.
And let's not forget that as of the time the events in game happen, the Warpers are on supposed "patrol" mode. This would probably mean that instead of moving biome to biome, they would patrol a certain area, as we see them do in-game.
I get that you're ornery about there being no multiplayer, but this paragraph was just uncalled for. And the part about the Warpers guarding the Precursor tech isn't entirely true, that's not their only job, and is most definitely the smaller of the two, coming second to the aforementioned Carar purging.
The Warpers may have logically assumed that they only need to patrol the biomes where Peepers are much less numerous.
Agreed.
So I digress by stating that if a separate multiplayer game were to be released, I would likely not be at all interested in it.
Except the survivors are completly clean, at least until you start swimming and eating the fish. Plus I don't think a warper could pull something out of a lifepod.
The way I see it, and could be a definite possibility is finishing what has already been planned, and get it to a largely stable public release. In this case the upcoming 1.0 launch date. Once there, then consider adding in a Co-op mode with a later update. Your game is technically finished, now you can build further onto it.
I'd see this as a more likely scenario. Will it happen? We'll have to wait and see.
That's definitely what will happen if it ever does happen. Though, I doubt UWE will do it themselves. My guess is that they'll outsource the work to another company while they work on any new expansions.
If I were to guess a timeframe, it'll be mid 2019.
But still, let's not get our hopes up. This is still a pretty crazy hypothetical situation.