As a steady survival/crafting player, I enjoy the settlement building in FO4. It's no Minecraft, but it works. In fact, you can play the entire game without building.
I kind of like the settlement building too, it got way too much hate. (Again though, it's only really good when modded, vanilla is pretty basic.)
However, you cannot play the entire game without building. There are quests where you have to build to progress. (The Castle etc.)
you can build a base or multiple bases wherever u want: check
the main purpose is to survive: check
you can improve base and vehicles as u like by exploring deeper, but u don't have to: check
so yes, its a survival SANDBOX game.
and yes, there is a story, but u are not forced to complete it, if you do so, you "win" the game. so yes, you can do speed runs to win it after release. is that fun, not for me, cause the game is way to immersive to just win it. thats why, from my humble perspective its a sandbox game. and thats why i rly wish to see a bigger world, more zones, more to craft.
there is such a huge potential in this game than just doing a static story over and over. which is a great story but still, it has an end, and i don't want to see an end in a game that i really love to play for much longer than just a story tells me to last.
yesterday ive seen a streamer who's goal is to collect all eggs he can find and hatch them in different alien containments sorted by food-animals, passive and agressive animals...thats one of the ways i see the game succeeding, make another winning route by this type of gameplay and not just by one goal (story)
also the devs said (obraxis to be precise) that alot of things (biomes,creatures,maybe vehicles) will come after v1
Not sure where you got a quote saying that, but we *would like* to add more things after 1.0 and have a lot of designs and ideas for that. But we've not planned anything after 1.0 out yet because we're so focused on delivering Subnautica. Like we did with NS2 though, we want to support our games after they release.
Huge worlds are at a risk of having no personality. Many modern games that strive for a huge world only have quantity to offer, not content. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is the first game that comes to mind as being oversized for its content and that being the worst part of it right after the awful story. I cannot agree the world of Subnautica is not up to size; what it is is world with character and a world with character is easier to navigate. The easier a place is to navigate, the smaller it seems.
Other than that I object to using "seasoned gamers" as the norm, 10-20 hours for an indie title with matching price tag seems entirely reasonable. When did that become unacceptable?
there is one major flaw in your post. legend of Zelda is in no way a sandbox game. Subnautica truly is, and thats why the world has to grow, by a lot.
and 10-20 hours are nothing. don't starve is just one example, u know that game? it becomes "unaceptable" the moment, at least from my viewpoint, when i see a huge potential in a game, which is the case with Subnautica in the very own interest of the creators of this game.
It was true that older Zelda titles were linear by design, but that seems to no longer be the case. The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds was designed at its core to ignore the past playstyle, and you can tackle any dungeon you want in any order, and with any weapons/tools that you want. In fact, the upcoming Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild will be even more of a sandbox. After the short intoduction, you can explore the open world at your leisure, and tackle objectives as you want. Heck, it's even been stated by Nintendo that you can go straight to the end-boss after starting a new game if you want to. So, your argument now has a flaw in it as well.
also the devs said (obraxis to be precise) that alot of things (biomes,creatures,maybe vehicles) will come after v1
Not sure where you got a quote saying that, but we *would like* to add more things after 1.0 and have a lot of designs and ideas for that. But we've not planned anything after 1.0 out yet because we're so focused on delivering Subnautica. Like we did with NS2 though, we want to support our games after they release.
Just so ya know...
IF and when you do decide to add more 'stuffs' to the game after v1.0 ...
I am more than willing to pony up a reasonable amount of cash for said content.
The design/format of subnautica is well suited for real "extension" (a big fat DLC).
I very like the solo orientation of Subnautica. Multplayer owuld have been nice, but let's face it, there is not much to do. It's not a Minecraft-like. Game is not that hard and would be very easy in coop.
I'm happy that devs are focusing on solo gameplay and story.
There isn't enough content in the world to satisfy sitting at your computer/console for hours/days on end. Whether that be in Subnautica, or otherwise.
If you find a lack. Step away. Do something else then come back to it. If you are scowling scratching your head, or just sitting with it cocked over trying to understand. Well it is simple. Read it again. Again, and again. 4 words. You play too much.
Multiplayer? Subnautica is IMHO as popular as it is because it is not multiplayer. Except for the forums, and that is a choice to read/participate in them.
There is a growing core of gamers that look for a return to solo play experience/immersion. Look simply at the number of we don't want MMO on these forums, and it is evident.
Not to call folks out... If you feel like I have done. My apologies. Way too much "me" going on in the community.
With little end game, this game and its player base will dwindle quickly, just like the thrill of the game. I'll never forget my first time exploring however the game quickly dulls down as there becomes little to do.
Subnautica is going to a "Polished" state, however I do not think it is ready. Successful sand box / survival games include either multiplayer and or a way of "winning" (ARK, Minecraft, Rust, etc). I personally feel very disappointing that there will be no multiplayer and believe this will be a large part in the success or failure of Subnautica as a game.
The initial analysis is just plain wrong. Replayability and the freedom is what makes these games successful, not a winning condition.
In case of SN I think the biggest problem is that the world is static.
I think what would be great would be to have a combination of static and procedural parts. So let's have the current beatiful parts but have certain portions of the map created procedurally so there is randomness.
That said, I didn't even notice it was static when I started a different game at work.
The least that can be done is to bring a random element to certain items for blueprints. Otherwise once you complete the game, you will always know or wiki where to go exactly to get the things that make your life easier and it will hurt the game experience.
In fact, this was the case for me with abandoned bases. It was around the time I discovered the static-ness of the game but since I learned where it was and I was very excited about multipurpose rooms, I couldn't stop myself :x
I think what would be great would be to have a combination of static and procedural parts. So let's have the current beatiful parts but have certain portions of the map created procedurally so there is randomness.
That would be awesome. Probably too late to do something like that, but it would be awesome. Even if it were just a procedurally generated band around the outside of the existing static map it would be pretty sweet.
Comments
I kind of like the settlement building too, it got way too much hate. (Again though, it's only really good when modded, vanilla is pretty basic.)
However, you cannot play the entire game without building. There are quests where you have to build to progress. (The Castle etc.)
the main purpose is to survive: check
you can improve base and vehicles as u like by exploring deeper, but u don't have to: check
so yes, its a survival SANDBOX game.
and yes, there is a story, but u are not forced to complete it, if you do so, you "win" the game. so yes, you can do speed runs to win it after release. is that fun, not for me, cause the game is way to immersive to just win it. thats why, from my humble perspective its a sandbox game. and thats why i rly wish to see a bigger world, more zones, more to craft.
there is such a huge potential in this game than just doing a static story over and over. which is a great story but still, it has an end, and i don't want to see an end in a game that i really love to play for much longer than just a story tells me to last.
yesterday ive seen a streamer who's goal is to collect all eggs he can find and hatch them in different alien containments sorted by food-animals, passive and agressive animals...thats one of the ways i see the game succeeding, make another winning route by this type of gameplay and not just by one goal (story)
Not sure where you got a quote saying that, but we *would like* to add more things after 1.0 and have a lot of designs and ideas for that. But we've not planned anything after 1.0 out yet because we're so focused on delivering Subnautica. Like we did with NS2 though, we want to support our games after they release.
It was true that older Zelda titles were linear by design, but that seems to no longer be the case. The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds was designed at its core to ignore the past playstyle, and you can tackle any dungeon you want in any order, and with any weapons/tools that you want. In fact, the upcoming Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild will be even more of a sandbox. After the short intoduction, you can explore the open world at your leisure, and tackle objectives as you want. Heck, it's even been stated by Nintendo that you can go straight to the end-boss after starting a new game if you want to. So, your argument now has a flaw in it as well.
Just so ya know...
IF and when you do decide to add more 'stuffs' to the game after v1.0 ...
I am more than willing to pony up a reasonable amount of cash for said content.
I REALLY LUV THIS GAME!!
I very like the solo orientation of Subnautica. Multplayer owuld have been nice, but let's face it, there is not much to do. It's not a Minecraft-like. Game is not that hard and would be very easy in coop.
I'm happy that devs are focusing on solo gameplay and story.
If you find a lack. Step away. Do something else then come back to it. If you are scowling scratching your head, or just sitting with it cocked over trying to understand. Well it is simple. Read it again. Again, and again. 4 words. You play too much.
Multiplayer? Subnautica is IMHO as popular as it is because it is not multiplayer. Except for the forums, and that is a choice to read/participate in them.
There is a growing core of gamers that look for a return to solo play experience/immersion. Look simply at the number of we don't want MMO on these forums, and it is evident.
Not to call folks out... If you feel like I have done. My apologies. Way too much "me" going on in the community.
In case of SN I think the biggest problem is that the world is static.
I think what would be great would be to have a combination of static and procedural parts. So let's have the current beatiful parts but have certain portions of the map created procedurally so there is randomness.
That said, I didn't even notice it was static when I started a different game at work.
The least that can be done is to bring a random element to certain items for blueprints. Otherwise once you complete the game, you will always know or wiki where to go exactly to get the things that make your life easier and it will hurt the game experience.
In fact, this was the case for me with abandoned bases. It was around the time I discovered the static-ness of the game but since I learned where it was and I was very excited about multipurpose rooms, I couldn't stop myself :x
That would be awesome. Probably too late to do something like that, but it would be awesome. Even if it were just a procedurally generated band around the outside of the existing static map it would be pretty sweet.
BTW @themaelstorm - love your Faust avatar.