New Marine Tactic?
Sycophant
Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7092Members
Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7092Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How can you counter it?</div> I played a few games (as alien) earlier tonight, and in two of them I was introduced to what appears to be a new marine tactic:
<b>Transferring the marine base to a hive</b>!! Maybe some people have seen this happen before, but tonight was the first time I've seen it.
The first was a decent-sized game (8v8), so half of them apparently headed straight for a hive. If it's clear, the commander sets a new command console in the hive and starts building up the base in that hive!! Aliens played normally, not expecting them to set up camp in our unbuilt hive. We didn't rush their original main, but we eventually went in and the place was nearly empty, except for the original command console and their default resource collector.
Needless to say, I was confused. I never even thought they'd have relocated to one of our hives. By the time we figured out what they did, they had a strong defense set up, and were in the process of trying to take our second hive spot.
It's incredibly demoralizing for the aliens to fight a battle to take the second hive point, then only to discover the marines have been camped in the third since 2 minutes into the game.
I'll admit, this tactic has it's downfalls:
<ul>1) If the aliens set up shop in the abandoned marine start, new marine players are as good as dead as soon as they spawn for the first time. Still, that's not a big deal.
2) Hives usually have direct vent access from at least one other hive. That provides a backdoor into the marine's new home.
3) Alien hivesight shows exactly where that hive is located. Again, not a big deal. Many players know the maps really well by now so they don't even need hivesight.
4) If the aliens rush the original main and punch through the small marine defense, aliens will almost certainly win. But then again, aliens will usually win with a successful rush even when the marines stay in their main.
<b>[edit] <i>regarding #4, that's assuming you take out the original marine start before they get to the hive</i> [/edit]</b></ul>
From game-start to game-end, the aliens can only hold two hives, at best. This completely prevents the late-game alien toys that many players count on to help them win (Onos, Bile Bomb, Xenocide, Spore Cloud, and Babblers). Granted, marine bases can sometimes be crushed with two-hive abilities, but it's certainly discouraging to <b>know</b> you'll never get the top abilities in that match.
I guess the best way to counter this tactic is to have the skulks check in on the hives periodically while they're harassing the marines. If they encounter a force moving towards a hive, alert the others. Hopefully one group of skulks can take down the base relocation before it gets built, while the other group takes out the marine main. With that many resources put towards transferring the whole base, it'll be very difficult for the marines to get themselves back to the point where they'd have any chance of winning.
<b>Transferring the marine base to a hive</b>!! Maybe some people have seen this happen before, but tonight was the first time I've seen it.
The first was a decent-sized game (8v8), so half of them apparently headed straight for a hive. If it's clear, the commander sets a new command console in the hive and starts building up the base in that hive!! Aliens played normally, not expecting them to set up camp in our unbuilt hive. We didn't rush their original main, but we eventually went in and the place was nearly empty, except for the original command console and their default resource collector.
Needless to say, I was confused. I never even thought they'd have relocated to one of our hives. By the time we figured out what they did, they had a strong defense set up, and were in the process of trying to take our second hive spot.
It's incredibly demoralizing for the aliens to fight a battle to take the second hive point, then only to discover the marines have been camped in the third since 2 minutes into the game.
I'll admit, this tactic has it's downfalls:
<ul>1) If the aliens set up shop in the abandoned marine start, new marine players are as good as dead as soon as they spawn for the first time. Still, that's not a big deal.
2) Hives usually have direct vent access from at least one other hive. That provides a backdoor into the marine's new home.
3) Alien hivesight shows exactly where that hive is located. Again, not a big deal. Many players know the maps really well by now so they don't even need hivesight.
4) If the aliens rush the original main and punch through the small marine defense, aliens will almost certainly win. But then again, aliens will usually win with a successful rush even when the marines stay in their main.
<b>[edit] <i>regarding #4, that's assuming you take out the original marine start before they get to the hive</i> [/edit]</b></ul>
From game-start to game-end, the aliens can only hold two hives, at best. This completely prevents the late-game alien toys that many players count on to help them win (Onos, Bile Bomb, Xenocide, Spore Cloud, and Babblers). Granted, marine bases can sometimes be crushed with two-hive abilities, but it's certainly discouraging to <b>know</b> you'll never get the top abilities in that match.
I guess the best way to counter this tactic is to have the skulks check in on the hives periodically while they're harassing the marines. If they encounter a force moving towards a hive, alert the others. Hopefully one group of skulks can take down the base relocation before it gets built, while the other group takes out the marine main. With that many resources put towards transferring the whole base, it'll be very difficult for the marines to get themselves back to the point where they'd have any chance of winning.
Comments
If they go into a hive that they can stay in the back of the hive and defend from any skulks coming in. It will be like shooting fish in a barrel.
The only reaosn that skulk rushes work in the first place, is because :
a. lots of marines are right at the entrance.
b. are only looking at the main entrance and have forgetten about the vent entrance.
c. u atch them with their pants down building.
If the marines want to stop ur rush , it is very simple. Have 1 or 2 builders max. The rest stay in the back so they have plenty of time to shoot incomming skulks, and be covering the vents.
I know, u never see that happening in pubs, but in any sort of organized team, that rush doesn't work.
I commanded today and reloacated to right outside a have, CC, IPs, everything. Problem is we were acid rocked death, slowly, but surly.
1) The game's focal balance point is designed around aliens holding 2 hives, while the marines hold the other one. This means the predominant marine strategy is to take and hold a hive ASAP, either with or without holding onto the original marine base. That little difference is mostly up to the commander's personal preference. Regardless, fades and lerks and such are meant to be almost exactly at the same level as a moderately upgraded marine team, such that it's a near-stalemate if two equal teams find themselves in this situation. Taken to extremes, an exactly equal match would probably occur gievn two exactly equal teams, as any available resources would need to go into welders and such to repair damage done, instead of upgrades. Any difference in the balance point is most likely a difference in experience of the teams, i.e. stealthy marines out making surprise solo attacks on a hive to draw away the fades or take out their ability in the first place. On either team, you should probably strive to first get to this point of balance, and then exceed it through superior tactics.
2) Skulk rushes <i>do</i> work, and often very admirably. If you've played marines (and I certainly hope you have!), keep in mind how quickly your clip runs dry, how little reserve ammo you often have on hive excursions, and how very <i>long</i> that reload is in the middle of combat. 1v1 isn't too much different from 7v7 in this regard; the marines will still be scrambling to stop all of you, especially if they have a couple builders to protect. The only problem I see is bad coordination; 1v7 doesn't stand much of a chance, but then again, your other 6 skulks are probably taking down the CC rather quickly anyway. Also, dead skulks don't collect resources, allowing your gorge to do his job that much more quickly, so there's really no point in <i>not</i> dying as often as possible unless it's somehow vital that you stay alive. So what if it's 1v7 and they're setting up a base? Do a run, expend their ammo, then call in your teamamtes to finish the job while you're respawning.
It was a stalemate for a while, but at last I managed to organize the alien team and get them to coordinate their attacks...
Two players would Lerk, flying into the heart of PowerSilo, landing amidst all the turrets and so forth, spewing Umbra all over the place, and biting chunks out of frantic Marines.. and then the rest of the team would charge in with Fades, swiping like mad.
It took three waves, but each wave *severely* damaged their base, and every RU they spent on rebuilding what we destroyed was an RU that they *could not* spend on grenade launchers, heavy machine guns, or power armor.
Exactly.
They get so hung up on the one hive they have that they forget about all the resources they <i>don't</i> have.
Also, if the marines rush off to a hive, try not to let them keep that AND the marine start. Even if you just rush into the start and take down their resource node, it helps to set them back a bit. If you do that and try to destroy any resource outpost that the marines try to make and sort of just shift the focus of the containment, you can (hopefully/usually) get your second hive up.
Personally, I think the respawn rate of aliens must be increased dramatically. I'd say that the time-to-spawn for aliens should be maxed at 30 sec.
Some maps and starting locations are more sensitive to this than others.