Silent Running Update Released! - Subnautica
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Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond
Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond
Silent Running Update Released! - Subnautica
Welcome aboard, Captain. The Silent Running Update has arrived! Get all the details on the Silent Running site. Silent Running Engage Silent Running mode to extinguish all exterior lights, dim interior to...
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Computer chips now require Gold & Copper Wire instead of Silver & a Crystal.
(but They forgot to change the LOG ENTRY... "Silver based computer chips are an essential component of the Radiation Suit and Habitat Builder")
They also changed the amount of time we can edit posts here... only 15 minutes now.
Also, here's the turkish translation thread: https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/140663/tuerkce-ceviri
Making the Cyclops take damage doesn’t sound more interesting, it just sounds tedious, to the point where I’m actually considering using a cheat to fix the issue – the first time I will have ever used a cheat to fix a gameplay problem. The problems are that the Cyclops is incredibly unwieldly to pilot and has even less proactive defenses than the Seamoth. The solutions are: a shield that lasts for a few seconds, uses a massive amount of power, and takes a bit to recharge, or being “stealthy,” i.e. moving slower. Yay.
Unknown Worlds has always had a focal point in Subnautica to keep the player unarmed, which I found annoying. It’s even more annoying that the player does have means of inflicting damage via the Seamoth’s electrical discharge and <i>a knife</i>, so it’s not like the player can’t inflict damage, it’s just made into a hassle to do so. But whatever, I lived with it, especially since the Cyclops was invulnerable.
Now, the Cyclops (which takes a massive amount of resources to make and time spent getting those resources) can be destroyed, and the enemies are made even tougher. I’d be more okay with that if our new options were more than a brief, impractical shield, or running away. I’m not asking for a minigun with explosive rounds, just something that makes dealing with the enemies less tedious. Either that or just making the Cyclops invulnerable again (which I assume I’ll have to do via cheats).
Again, I do love Subnautica and really appreciate how committed Unknown Worlds has been to the development of the game. But this newest update seems to be doubling down on the already existing flaws – making everything more deadly while giving the player no real means to deal with that deadliness (other than running away). So the gameplay loop for encountering a deadly enemy is to run away, over and over again. That kind of tedium isn’t fun, it’s just time consuming, a way of artificially increasing the game length.
It's more of a novelty as far as I'm concerned, something to fiddle around with every once in awhile.
I'm not trying to undervalue its potential for those that really enjoy using it, I just find that I can get along playing the game pretty much without having to rely solely on it.
This is just a guess but, perhaps the Dev's are pushing the players to use the base building aspect of the game more, rather then relying completely on the Cyclops as a mobile base?
One other thought, as a Survival Game, isn't "avoiding the deadly creatures" more of a goal than "taking them out" at every encounter?
Perhaps this game is specifically being designed to NOT be a "Kill or get Killed" adventure?
I never really considered it from a “force players to build bases” persepective. Hmm.
I tried thinking of any and all popular survival games I could. The Long Dark is extremely popular. You have to be careful around wolves. However, you also get a rifle that is very satisfying to use and can take down wolves in one shot; I know because I’ve played it.
Don’t Starve is another popular survival game, and I played the hell out of that one. You can definitely tech up to marble armor and the dark sword to take down really deadly bosses.
This War of Mine is considered one of the best survival games, and I loved that one. It was incredibly dangerous to try to attack other people, but the feeling of killing the opponent and surviving was very satisfying.
7 Days to Die is considered a survival game, and on the 7th day, I get to open up with assault rifles on the zombie hordes.
The Forest is considered a survival game, and you get all sorts of weapons and traps to kill the island monsters.
In fact, now that you bring it up, I think Subnautica may have the most gimped self-defense options out of any survival game I can think of.
The closest example I can think of to compare Subnautica to is Amnesia: Dark Descent, that was all about running and hiding. So a <i>survival horror</i> game. And even then, Resident Evil 7 took the gaming community by storm and received rave reviews and gave the players some pretty cool weapons. I was listening to one gaming podcast yesterday about how RE7 is a turning point in survival horror, showing that games can be scary without forcing incompetence on the player.
@0x6A7232
You’re right about the decoys; I had forgotten about that. But ultimately they exist as another way to run away from enemies, in this case by distracting them.
The Cyclops made no sense being indestructible. This update adds more realism, and immersion then waiting for someone to build something invincible.
Sea Dragons and Reapers aren't realistic. Stasis rifles aren't realistic. "Realism" has no bearing on this decision, especially since "realistically," biological creatures (like sharks) can't tear through a titanium hull of a submarine.
There still has to be aspects of a game though.
I urge everyone to spend a good amount of time playing with the new Cyclops before passing judgement. We will be listening to all the feedback from players in the coming days/weeks and will make adjustments accordingly, if necessary (though not by adding in weapons)
@CaptainFearless is right, and Sea Dragons and Reapers aren't unrealistic, either. Not on Earth, sure, but there's nothing about them that totally flies in the face of biological probability. Morphology of organisms on an alien planet, subject to millennia of selection pressures we've never seen...some are going to evolve in ways totally alien to us - hence the word. Besides, there's nothing saying bonesharks couldn't damage a titanium-hulled sub. You're assuming it's solid titanium plate. But a structured material, not a solid, would be as strong yet cost half the resources of building a plate hull - a bonus for a survivor living on scraps. It's proof against pressure, but not rocks and armored fish. After all, you can tear titanium foil with your teeth; get some bigger and better teeth, and you can do more than just foil.
However, there's a key difference between SN and the other games listed, one which radically shifts the playing field: Subnautica happens underwater. The tools that humans build by hand are generally for doing tasks on land, in the medium of air. Ever try swinging a hammer or ax underwater? It isn't easy. Even a knife requires a new understanding because nothing behaves the same underwater as it does above. Firing that rifle underwater? Risky, and even if it doesn't suffer a catastrophic failure, that bullet's not going far with any kind of punch. But the game world as crafted explains why there are no weapons available; it's a limitation installed to create tension and difficulty, and one which is explained as part of the narrative.
Basically, everything about Subnautica revolves around taking humans out of the sphere of dominance we've built. We're the apex predators in our environment, but dump humans in the ocean and the dominance pyramid suddenly inverts for us, and now we're near the bottom of the food chain. You're vulnerable, weak, and nearly incapable of defense. You're in the wrong place, and it's that feeling of wrongness that drives a lot of the tension. In almost all games, we play the unstoppable badass. Subnautica gives you a taste of what it feels to be powerless - or at least at a severe disadvantage - and that's why it doesn't seem right to a lot of people. We want to be the shark, not the minnow. Well, in this game, you're now a prey organism. Hunter becomes hunted. And, like all prey, it's usually run or hide.
Having played a number of survival games I find it refreshing that, as I have said elsewhere, we are not and never will be the biggest baddest things in the ocean. I think of it as almost a rogue based mechanic where besting your opponent means being aware, planning and ultimately outmaneuvering them. I personally find there are more than enough systems in place to defend yourself. If that means leaving the Cyclops to go repulsor something to clear the way so be it.
As someone said before the Cyclops is now truly a cost/benefit item. Do you make it your mobile base and accept the risk that comes with that or instead use it as more of a transport to move material to lower depths so you can build outposts? It is nice we have the choice.
What draws me to this game as opposed to another zombie survival end of the world apocalypse bailywick is that its more about surviving the threats you face instead of defeating them. Small difference to many, but to me its a big deal.
Greyfairer
I only bothered to make it due to a) I was forced to due to depths and b) it fixed some of the tedium involved in running away from creatures, running back again, running away from creatures, running back again, etc.
The second reason to use it has now been discarded. Regardless of what anyone thinks of it, the Cyclops is <i>objectively</i> less useful now that it takes damage. As in, no player is going to be like, “Oh man, now that the Cyclops takes damage, so many more avenues are open to me!” It was barely useful to begin with, beyond the arbitrary crush depth limit decided by the developers.
So as it stands, I have even less of a reason to want to use it now, rather than more, which would ideally be the goal (enriching players’ tools and choices).
I can discuss more issues regarding this, like how you can feel vulnerable in other survival games while still being given a variety of choices in how to deal with enemies, but I think it’s pointless. It’s obvious that some vocal fans do want it this way, and that Unknown Worlds has dug in their heels.
So okay. I’ll be curious to see how this turns out for the Cyclops usage by players. Again, for me, I have one less reason to build it, making the vehicle something to barely even bother with anymore. But let’s wait and see what this gameplay change does for the game itself.
That said - this really is brilliant - and I love the new caves. I'm blown away really. Now all that we need are a couple of narrow caves (too small for a large craft) connecting the dune caves (and maybe the mushroom caves) with deeper biomes!
I really enjoyed the list you posted, I'm always looking for new survival games to play.
The Forest, H1Z1 and another entry *(see below) are my top survival games, including Subnautica. Alien: Isolation and SOMA aren't technically survival games, but they share many gameplay and design features with modern survival games (also they are a blast to play!)
In relation to the two games I mentioned, Alien Isolation does have a few weapon options, but they are very limited. In fact, you'll likely rely on defensive tools more often than offensive ones (let's also not forget that the Alien cannot be killed ever!) And in SOMA there are no weapons at all, only a few tools that can be used offensively, and for limited windows of gameplay. That's the main reason I enjoy these games so much; you don't need weapons to have great gameplay.
*I returned to this quote to address a serious omission from your list: Stranded Deep! It has been and still is one of my favorite survival games ever.
Holy mother of god did I love Alien Isolation. That game was really good. REALLY good. I feel bad for the negative reviews it got. Never got into SOMA, myself.
You’ll note, though, that you compare Subnautica to Alien Isolation. And, much like Amnesia: Dark Descent, Alien Isolation is considered survival <i>horror</i>. So Subnautica kind of wants to be a survival game, but takes its character’s competencies (being unable to effectively attack) from survival horror. Unlike Subnautica, however, I wasn’t bothered by that at all in Alien Isolation. I think it’s because you still were able to kill other survivors and the Working Joes (which felt very satisfying), creatures that were threats to you, whereas in Subnautica, it takes a minor miracle to kill even the tamest of threats. But yeah, I loved Alien Isolation. Absolutely loved it.
You know, I tried Stranded Deep. I really *wanted* to like it. SD just kind of fell flat for me, though, which was a bummer. SD felt a bit too empty and boring for me. That being said, I’m still remaining open to SD in the future, if they add a lot more stuff to do. I appreciate the recommendation though.
It can take quite a lot of punishment without upgrades. Poked around in the Deep Grand Reef, it was a challenge to keep the bumps at a minimum. Makes you realize how easy it was to just jam it through before. You can still do that sort of...but that means more repairs. Crabsquid EMPs work on it now too, yay! Only had one fire to deal with so far but I drew in a whole pack of Bonesharks (5-6 of them) when I hit Ahead Flank on my way out of the DGR. Man it really draws attention! I'm not sure how far away they were, 50-100 meters? I tried to turn on Silent Running then to "hide" which was a mistake, I could have outrun the Bonesharks instead. It was fun though, watching the radar light up with threats as soon as I punched it. Repairs are pretty fast which is nice, gives you more time to deal with the fires they caused if you don't have a Fire Suppression upgrade. Didn't have any new upgrades to try out unfortunately but I like what I've tested.
I'm glad that we are able to go in and salvage our stuff from a dead Cyclops and the Metal Salvage that spawns around it will help with replacing the Plasteel Ingots. I hope we'll be able clear out upgrades and storage from our docked Prawn or Seamoth too in the future, at this point the whole thing disappears so get them out before the Cyclops goes boom!
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I like the new Oxygen meter, kind of wish the Health, Food and Water meters were a bit larger with numbers in the middle like the O2. The flashing red lights when they hit 50% helps but it is a bit distracting.
The new backrounds of items seem very bright to me, I think it would look nicer with a darker blue circle to accentuate the item being displayed over it like the player's hotbar is now. Thank you for changing the Silver and Quartz ingredients for Computer Chips to Gold Ore and Copper Wire! It makes more sense. Wiring Kits technically should be made with Copper Ore over Silver as a conductor but we do need something to use our Silver for.
The new Compass is a nice and colorful upgrade but harder to tell your exact heading so it might be nice to have that more clearly visible. The new outcrops and materials look great too! Haven't had a chance to check out too many eggs or the new areas but looking forward to it.
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On the topic of Cyclops weapons, there's nothing wrong with the weapon parked on your Cyclops! Seamoth, Prawn...You. Deploy those weapons soldier and drive those baddies off!
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Good stuff guys, I'm enjoying this update!
Also, why does silent running have to be red? Just simply dim the lights to an utter minimum, or perhaps make it pitch black.
Yeah the UI is really not my preference - especially the compass (no numbers!).
But honestly, the whole style is too bulking - just give me a numerical readout in a corner of the screen!
Err, also a bug. Previously when we were using the Cyclops cameras we would hit Escape to return to first person. That didn't change but it seems like it's trying to pull up the Pause menu at the same time now and then it freezes until you click again with the mouse.
I totally agree with.
Haven't played the new update though. Maybe they managed to balance it.
Gonna try agitating the sea dragon next. Oughta be fun.
Just got done playing with the sea dragon. I have a new appreciation for the fire suppression system, but other than that, I have to say the new update tank'd up the Cyclops. Sure, it can be destroyed now, but you just don't get attacked when Silent Running is on. I've been poking the sea dragon for half an hour and only needed to retreat once. It's much easier than what it was before because even though the Cyclops could not be destroyed, I was constantly worrying I'd be swatted around by ol' crocodile-face. Now I kinda control that. The ship's not even that slow in Silent Running mode and overall travel time is more than made up for with flank speed in the corridor and other spacious areas.
There's some points of improvement I'll write down after a bit more playing, but overall I do think the Cyclops has become easier to use.