Huh, the guy is only doing a black orb, showing where the player is, I don't really see him modifying or editing the base, just a black orb staying still. I like how they are doing the multiplayer, but please leave it to the devs, since it will make this easier, I've seen different types of games with multiplayer made by users, however NONE of them lived to their fullest for hundreds of reason. Just, please leave it to the devs since they already confirmed they're doing it: https://trello.com/c/vNZEbIUe/170-make-scanner-room-more-useful-range-etc
It would be nice to find what the initial "MP" actually meant in that card about the scanner, then SAPH3RE could come at peace with Multiplayer never happening.
It look like the moderator will have to include "Multiplayer MOD" to the "afraid not -> stop asking" thread.
@Foxy : thoughts? I know it's not official, but that could be clearly stated ("UWE does not support this mod, use at your own risk, but if you still want to, here's a mod") - ?
It look like the moderator will have to include "Multiplayer MOD" to the "afraid not -> stop asking" thread.
@Foxy : thoughts? I know it's not official, but that could be clearly stated ("UWE does not support this mod, use at your own risk, but if you still want to, here's a mod") - ?
If I were @Foxy , I think I would be very cautious about making any mention of executable code that doesn't come from UWE. The first time someone claims their computer crashed after running it, they might try to hold UWE responsible--regardless if there was a warning saying it didn't come from UWE. Just my opinion.
It look like the moderator will have to include "Multiplayer MOD" to the "afraid not -> stop asking" thread.
@Foxy : thoughts? I know it's not official, but that could be clearly stated ("UWE does not support this mod, use at your own risk, but if you still want to, here's a mod") - ?
If I were @Foxy , I think I would be very cautious about making any mention of executable code that doesn't come from UWE. The first time someone claims their computer crashed after running it, they might try to hold UWE responsible--regardless if there was a warning saying it didn't come from UWE. Just my opinion.
Not sure how that's possible (not that they wouldn't try). I mean, modding isn't a new concept. Neither are EULAs, which I'm sure Subnautica, Unity, and the store platform (Steam or Occulus Home) have.
This is an interesting subject and huge kudos to the effort made here. I am by no means UWE, I believe this is one for @Hugh to handle, I'm sure @Flayra would be very interested by it too. They may well have already seen this thread but in the off chance they haven't, ping-a-ling!
It look like the moderator will have to include "Multiplayer MOD" to the "afraid not -> stop asking" thread.
@Foxy : thoughts? I know it's not official, but that could be clearly stated ("UWE does not support this mod, use at your own risk, but if you still want to, here's a mod") - ?
If I were @Foxy , I think I would be very cautious about making any mention of executable code that doesn't come from UWE. The first time someone claims their computer crashed after running it, they might try to hold UWE responsible--regardless if there was a warning saying it didn't come from UWE. Just my opinion.
Not sure how that's possible (not that they wouldn't try). I mean, modding isn't a new concept. Neither are EULAs, which I'm sure Subnautica, Unity, and the store platform (Steam or Occulus Home) have.
There are two broad categories of game mods:
1. Mods written by players using tools provided by the developers--typically written in LUA, Python or maybe just XML.
2. Mods written by players using tools provided by the players--involving "hacking" the code of the game itself.
In all the cases where a game company provides acknowledgement, support, etc for mods, they are category (1). In this case, there is assurance the mod won't harm your computer. However, in that second case, you have absolutely no certainty... It would be foolhardy for a company to provide even implied support of such mods since they don't have any idea what the executable code written by fans might do...
It look like the moderator will have to include "Multiplayer MOD" to the "afraid not -> stop asking" thread.
@Foxy : thoughts? I know it's not official, but that could be clearly stated ("UWE does not support this mod, use at your own risk, but if you still want to, here's a mod") - ?
If I were @Foxy , I think I would be very cautious about making any mention of executable code that doesn't come from UWE. The first time someone claims their computer crashed after running it, they might try to hold UWE responsible--regardless if there was a warning saying it didn't come from UWE. Just my opinion.
Not sure how that's possible (not that they wouldn't try). I mean, modding isn't a new concept. Neither are EULAs, which I'm sure Subnautica, Unity, and the store platform (Steam or Occulus Home) have.
There are two broad categories of game mods:
1. Mods written by players using tools provided by the developers--typically written in LUA, Python or maybe just XML.
2. Mods written by players using tools provided by the players--involving "hacking" the code of the game itself.
In all the cases where a game company provides acknowledgement, support, etc for mods, they are category (1). In this case, there is assurance the mod won't harm your computer. However, in that second case, you have absolutely no certainty... It would be foolhardy for a company to provide even implied support of such mods since they don't have any idea what the executable code written by fans might do...
Not true, plenty of graphics cards and computers have died to bad mods made in dev tools.
It look like the moderator will have to include "Multiplayer MOD" to the "afraid not -> stop asking" thread.
@Foxy : thoughts? I know it's not official, but that could be clearly stated ("UWE does not support this mod, use at your own risk, but if you still want to, here's a mod") - ?
If I were @Foxy , I think I would be very cautious about making any mention of executable code that doesn't come from UWE. The first time someone claims their computer crashed after running it, they might try to hold UWE responsible--regardless if there was a warning saying it didn't come from UWE. Just my opinion.
Not sure how that's possible (not that they wouldn't try). I mean, modding isn't a new concept. Neither are EULAs, which I'm sure Subnautica, Unity, and the store platform (Steam or Occulus Home) have.
There are two broad categories of game mods:
1. Mods written by players using tools provided by the developers--typically written in LUA, Python or maybe just XML.
2. Mods written by players using tools provided by the players--involving "hacking" the code of the game itself.
In all the cases where a game company provides acknowledgement, support, etc for mods, they are category (1). In this case, there is assurance the mod won't harm your computer. However, in that second case, you have absolutely no certainty... It would be foolhardy for a company to provide even implied support of such mods since they don't have any idea what the executable code written by fans might do...
Not true, plenty of graphics cards and computers have died to bad mods made in dev tools.
First, the harm I'm talking about is the harm caused by malicious software such a key loggers, trojans, etc. Second, there is absolutely greater assurance UWE won't include malware in their software because they want to make money. So, they are much more likely to check the code they write and distribute. Contrast that with what a random individual might accidentally or intentionally include in the code they provide. Then, combine that with however they distribute it and the modifications that may occur along the way. If you want to roll the dice and take a chance, go for it. But don't say you weren't warned. The chance may not be all that great. Let's trust our fellow man and all that. But it is high enough to warrant mentioning. If UWE provides a link to a third party site where I go to download software and end up getting malware, yeah, I'm probably gonna blame UWE.
First, the harm I'm talking about is the harm caused by malicious software such a key loggers, trojans, etc. Second, there is absolutely greater assurance UWE won't include malware in their software because they want to make money. So, they are much more likely to check the code they write and distribute. Contrast that with what a random individual might accidentally or intentionally include in the code they provide. Then, combine that with however they distribute it and the modifications that may occur along the way. If you want to roll the dice and take a chance, go for it. But don't say you weren't warned. The chance may not be all that great. Let's trust our fellow man and all that. But it is high enough to warrant mentioning. If UWE provides a link to a third party site where I go to download software and end up getting malware, yeah, I'm probably gonna blame UWE.
This project will be open source very soon. Obviously there is no warranty but at least the code will have full community scrutiny.
First, the harm I'm talking about is the harm caused by malicious software such a key loggers, trojans, etc. Second, there is absolutely greater assurance UWE won't include malware in their software because they want to make money. So, they are much more likely to check the code they write and distribute. Contrast that with what a random individual might accidentally or intentionally include in the code they provide. Then, combine that with however they distribute it and the modifications that may occur along the way. If you want to roll the dice and take a chance, go for it. But don't say you weren't warned. The chance may not be all that great. Let's trust our fellow man and all that. But it is high enough to warrant mentioning. If UWE provides a link to a third party site where I go to download software and end up getting malware, yeah, I'm probably gonna blame UWE.
This project will be open source very soon. Obviously there is no warranty but at least the code will have full community scrutiny.
Somehow, I don't think UWE is going to be too appreciative of that statement, since They ARE planning on making money with this project.
Somehow, I don't think UWE is going to be too appreciative of that statement, since They ARE planning on making money with this project.
I don't understand how releasing my code to the public has impact on their bottom line.
The code Sunrunner releases will not be the source code for the entire game. Rather, it will be only his own source code that theoretically enables two people playing Subnautica to communicate and/or interact with each other. His code shouldn't work for someone who didn't buy the game.
It look like the moderator will have to include "Multiplayer MOD" to the "afraid not -> stop asking" thread.
@Foxy : thoughts? I know it's not official, but that could be clearly stated ("UWE does not support this mod, use at your own risk, but if you still want to, here's a mod") - ?
If I were @Foxy , I think I would be very cautious about making any mention of executable code that doesn't come from UWE. The first time someone claims their computer crashed after running it, they might try to hold UWE responsible--regardless if there was a warning saying it didn't come from UWE. Just my opinion.
Not sure how that's possible (not that they wouldn't try). I mean, modding isn't a new concept. Neither are EULAs, which I'm sure Subnautica, Unity, and the store platform (Steam or Occulus Home) have.
There are two broad categories of game mods:
1. Mods written by players using tools provided by the developers--typically written in LUA, Python or maybe just XML.
2. Mods written by players using tools provided by the players--involving "hacking" the code of the game itself.
In all the cases where a game company provides acknowledgement, support, etc for mods, they are category (1). In this case, there is assurance the mod won't harm your computer. However, in that second case, you have absolutely no certainty... It would be foolhardy for a company to provide even implied support of such mods since they don't have any idea what the executable code written by fans might do...
(Heads up, this post got a bit longer than I expected but there is a point to the rambling lol. There is a TL;DR near the bottom if you want to skip the minor example backstory.)
There's two examples I would like to toss in the ring, in regards for the defense of category #2: Final Fantasy XI has a fan-supported add-on mod program called "Windower" and HearthStone has a fan-supported overlay called "HearthStone Deck Tracker".
Windower was originally conceived to be a benefit to Windows XP/Vista/7 players of Final Fantasy XI. The game was originally coded for PS2 but was ported to the PC and eventually the Xbox 360. But in order to keep things "fair" between all versions, the PC version originally was programmed to not allowed to run in a window or allowed to Alt-Tab. Programming-savvy players banded together to create this mod; it originally allowed users to modify the code in memory and run it in its own window - but over time, there have been many mods and add-ons created for it. Some are beneficial, such as adding a real-time in-game compass, on-screen timers for spells and abilities, and streamlining complex lines of commands to cast spells, use abilities or change gear to benefit battle conditions (the game normally allows only six commands per macro; Windower utilizes LUA scripts to allow over 100 commands per a single action).
The HDT is a much simpler feature - you run it while HearthStone is running, and it prints an overlay that runs on top of the game screen itself. If you move the HS window, the HDT overlay stays on top of the parent window. The game keeps track of what cards you've drawn and played, both yours and your opponent's. If you're playing a preconstructed deck (one you've previously made for yourself to use) then it highlights what's yet to be drawn and dims what has already been pulled from your deck. It can also keep count of how many cards are left in both players' decks, and the program can record and playback matches you've played in your web browser.
There is a fundamental difference between both programs, however. While both were created by fans of their respective communities to improve the gaming experience, the philosophy behind each are very different. Windower started out as a convenience tool to bypass the hard-coding limits put into place by the developers, but people soon learned how to "take advantage" of the situation. Players running certain scripts and add-ons could perform better in the game versus those without them, as the game would automate tasks to a degree far faster than the typical person could perform. It also allowed more unscrupulous players to track certain Notorious Monsters (rare spawns with highly-desirable item drops) efficiently and sometimes warping their character on top of the spawn if it appeared, or to bypass the game's maximum movement speed limits. For a long time the general consensus was "Windower is bad, users are BANNED!" by the general populace... but now that console support has long-since been dropped in favor of PC support only, this attitude has largely gone away (if everyone has equal opportunity, then it can't be an unfair advantage).
On the other hand, the HDT allows abnormal data-tracking than what more casual players would practically maintain, but it only tracks and presents the data that the game itself uses. In fact, HDT only pulls from the internal data packets that's presented to the user - if an opponent manages to draw three cards due to an action but does not play them during the match, the identity of said cards are not displayed. Ben Brode, director of HearthStone, has even gone on record stating that "any app you can duplicate with pen and paper already is fine." So while its usage is not largely embraced by the developers, it is allowed to be used without fear of being banned.
So what's the TL;DR here? Basically my point is, it's all in how coding modifiers for Subnautica are implemented. Sure, the fan community can create spectacular mods that bypass the game's original design and add more features into the game such as a multiplayer mode, a customizable game or a real-time mapping system. But when you have people injecting code into the game that's got to work with the game's existing programming, that could cause performance issues or game crashes and can't be supported officially, it causes some concerns. Then there's the possible issue with someone possibly injecting code to try and monitor your information, maybe gain your Steam log-in info or other such data on your computer. Mind you, I am not trying to instill fearmongering or accuse people of activities. I'm just stating - this is the age of technology and computers/software can do so many things these days. Despite the intentions of Person A or Group B to make the game more useful for the greater good, there is always the chance that Someone C will try to undermine other people's hard work for their own personal means - and regardless of the reason or the outcome, unfortunately UWE would likely have to bear the brunt of such a possible negative fallout.
While I admire the progress being made with the multiplayer modifications and wish them the best on it, I can't honestly say I can support their decisions. I don't think it's something that UWE would prevent or deny (unless the modders were trying to make it for profit obviously) but I just don't trust internal data changes that's not made by UWE themselves (unlike Windower or HDT which can only manipulate the data that's in active memory). Sorry @Sunrunner - It's nothing personal, just my opinion.
1. Mods written by players using tools provided by the developers--typically written in LUA, Python or maybe just XML.
2. Mods written by players using tools provided by the players--involving "hacking" the code of the game itself.
In all the cases where a game company provides acknowledgement, support, etc for mods, they are category (1). In this case, there is assurance the mod won't harm your computer. However, in that second case, you have absolutely no certainty... It would be foolhardy for a company to provide even implied support of such mods since they don't have any idea what the executable code written by fans might do...
Mod creators don't usually put viruses or keyloggers in mods. Especially if not open source, that's just stupid. There's honestly no reason to put all of this work in and someone discovers a keylogger and now no one wants to use the mod.
If someone really wanted to steal all of your information, they were make some quick mod that didn't do anything, add some special effects into the screenshots/preview video pretty easily, and release. Minimal effort. See, there's really no point in making a whole functional mod if it there's an easier way to do it.
Then there's the possible issue with someone possibly injecting code to try and monitor your information, maybe gain your Steam log-in info or other such data on your computer.
Don't quote me on this, but I don't think steam would save passwords on the computer. I'm sure it uses some way of checking if it's the same computer you're on so that the code that your computer stores won't work on anyone else's.
Despite the intentions of Person A or Group B to make the game more useful for the greater good, there is always the chance that Someone C will try to undermine other people's hard work for their own personal means
There will always be that person out there who's trying to do this. Thing is, you'll probably know a sketchy mod when you see it. Just like you can tell if an app isreallysubnautica.
I just don't trust internal data changes that's not made by UWE themselves (unlike Windower or HDT which can only manipulate the data that's in active memory).
But how is this any different? We are using harmony and it modifies code in memory. I don't know how that makes anything less dangerous then editing the code manually.
Regardless of all of this ↑, considering there probably won't be too many Subnautica mods being created, there could be some website or something where we verify mods' code and make sure they don't have viruses before putting them on there.
I will state though, that some regular working programs have gone to the dark side. See camstudio, it's pretty bad.
The developer, although seeing he had put work into it, said that he needed money to continue the project but was so naive to the fact that the installers had viruses regardless if you declined them in the ad-installer or not.
But at this state, it's pretty obvious we're not doing it for money. We're doing it because we love modding, not because we're trying to make a bit of money.
Like mentioned, no one has to take anyone's word for it. You don't have to install minecraft mods if you don't trust them either.
We are using harmony and it modifies code in memory. I don't know how that makes anything less dangerous then editing the code manually.
Well, see there, I didn't realize that. Memory-editing code like how the GameShark for consoles or hex memory editors for PC games work are perfectly fine in my book. As I said above:
Mind you, I am not trying to instill fearmongering or accuse people of activities. I'm just stating - this is the age of technology and computers/software can do so many things these days.
I wasn't trying to claim you guys were up to anything unsavory or naughty, I was just pointing out what could happen. I think what you guys are doing is great; if nothing else, I'm a bit jealous.
See, my first foray into gaming was over the good ol' 56k dialup-modem service playing a great FPS called "Starsiege: Tribes." (I'm really showing my age here...) It was a standard team-based shooter that ran off of a basic physics engine - you could jump in the game but also had access to jumpjets, which was an additional aerial mobility. So while you could be blasted away by enemy fire you could also try to escape assault or pin down a hapless player. Also the core game had three 'classes' of armor: Light, Medium and Heavy. Lighter armors moved faster and stayed in the air longer, but had less durability and was restricted to weaker weapons; heavier armors moved slower and had more health, but could wield stronger weapons. Add in backpacks for more variety such as increased ammo storage, the ability to repair players' health and map-based turrets, or add a limited-use portable forcefield and it was a decent sci-fi shooter game.
Now, what changed the game for me was this community of modders back then that went by the name of "Shifter." Their Shifter mod for Starsiege: Tribes took a decent game and made it awesome! Here's a short list of what they were able to accomplish:
1. Changing the core three classes into seven unique classes, each with their own flavor (Scouts could fly longer, but could only use the Sniper/Gauss Rifles; Engineers had only basic equipment but could hack enemy deployable weapons and repair without the backpack; Assassins could appear as a friendly unit to the enemy for a short time, and sap their energy or steal their ammo)
2. Stimpacks (self-healing first aid kits) and Grenades had different functions based on your class (the Scout's Stimpacks could heal HP and restore energy but each usage increased the chance to die of poison; Engineers could chuck grenades that would damage opponents but heal teammates)
3. Certain classes gained abilities just by the collision detection with another player (Engineers could heal teammates or friendly equipment, Assassins could poison enemies, Arbiters could stun players with an EMP touch)
4. Normal non-functional doodads (map elements) could be deployed at will with new functions (such as Portable Generators that either recharged your energy, restored health or sapped the enemy with EMP pulses - but they would burn out after a while)
5. They upped the limit of constructable equipment the game would allow (Shield Walls, Laser Turrets, Pulse Cannons etc. had triple the normal deployment) and more constructables could be built (they added EMP Cannons and Rail Guns as new constructable weapons)
6. And finally... they added a freaking SCOREBOARD with high-scores and penalties! The vanilla game from the developers didn't track scores, heck it didn't even track kills... just play each match until 20 minutes passed and the team whoever Captured the Flag the most won. But Shifter showed the top 5 players on each side and their contributing points; any griefers who team-killed more than three times were booted from the server (but it was a limited 24-hour penalty though).
The reason I'm gushing with nostalgia about a 15+ year old shooter is that I agree with your points. Modders love a core game but can see so much more potential than the developers can either realize, or perhaps don't have the time or resources to implement new features. Shifter saw much potential in Starsiege: Tribes and brought more to the table than what the developers were able to do - and in turn they helped raise awareness of the game, and increased the shelf life of the game by far (when the official support for the game ended, people were still playing with the Shifter mod on personal servers for quite some time - myself included).
So, I apologize if it came off as a personal attack; I didn't mean it to be so. I'm just a bit wary of third-party software as I've been burned in the past by people that promoted mods but were in fact promoting cracked utilities - but to be fair, I was a lot more naive back then than I am now. So adding in a multiplayer mod that only modifies code in memory is awesome! I know a lot of people have been asking for multiplayer (although I don't really get why, heh) so the work you all are doing will help appease their desires, improve awareness of the game, and let everyone share the love of Subnautica. So I thank you @Sunrunner and @nesrak1 for all that you are doing. Now, everybody wins!
Most of the concerns about bad code would be caught by any decent antivirus and antispyware program. While it is true that you should be wary of programs written by someone else, I also agree that this is highly unlikely from a mod that requires this much effort and is being promoted here. And as I just mentioned, there are some basic things you should always be doing that will protect you against things like that.
As far as whether or not UWE ever chooses to approve or disapprove of this mod, quite frankly I don't care and it doesn't matter. He's built his own program that just interfaces with theirs. They can't do anything to him for that. Not that I wouldn't love to see them give @Sunrunner a pat on the back for what he's done. It's awesome.
A lot of game like KSP require modders to post the source code of their mods. And you can't guarantee that it's safe to run a piece of malicious code outside of a sandbox by antivirus / antispyware monitors.
I never said you could guarantee it. I just said it was something you should do that will make it hard for anything malicious to get past it. I also said it is unlikely, which is true.
To a certain extent you have to decide if you're willing to put some trust in modders in order to run mods. Generally someone who puts that much effort into a mod that does useful things you can clearly see is not interested in putting anything malicious in their code.
Also, the idea that a game can "require" you to post your source code is simply untrue. At best it's a completely unenforceable "request". At worst it's something to be laughed at. There are plenty of KSP mods that are popular and have never opened up their source code to anyone.
I never said you could guarantee it. I just said it was something you should do that will make it hard for anything malicious to get past it. I also said it is unlikely, which is true.
To a certain extent you have to decide if you're willing to put some trust in modders in order to run mods. Generally someone who puts that much effort into a mod that does useful things you can clearly see is not interested in putting anything malicious in their code.
Also, the idea that a game can "require" you to post your source code is simply untrue. At best it's a completely unenforceable "request". At worst it's something to be laughed at. There are plenty of KSP mods that are popular and have never opened up their source code to anyone.
I assume he meant source code was required if you wanted your mod featured on some sort of "official" site or in some sort of in-game mod browser. Sure, if you want to post your mod on a third party site, you definitely wouldn't need to meet any sort of external requirements. But then no one might ever find your mod.
As promised, I've opened up the source of the project to allow community contributors. Please find the source code here: https://github.com/Sunrunner37/Nitrox
What if you just sync the English.Json? Then you could record vehicles easier.
Sorry not entirely following. If you have an idea to expand the mod, feel free to write the code and submit a pull request. (Github url can be found above)
Comments
EDIT: Also, https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/144802/coop-or-multiplayer-in-subnautica-im-afraid-not/p1
Awesome!
@Foxy : thoughts? I know it's not official, but that could be clearly stated ("UWE does not support this mod, use at your own risk, but if you still want to, here's a mod") - ?
If I were @Foxy , I think I would be very cautious about making any mention of executable code that doesn't come from UWE. The first time someone claims their computer crashed after running it, they might try to hold UWE responsible--regardless if there was a warning saying it didn't come from UWE. Just my opinion.
Not sure how that's possible (not that they wouldn't try). I mean, modding isn't a new concept. Neither are EULAs, which I'm sure Subnautica, Unity, and the store platform (Steam or Occulus Home) have.
There are two broad categories of game mods:
1. Mods written by players using tools provided by the developers--typically written in LUA, Python or maybe just XML.
2. Mods written by players using tools provided by the players--involving "hacking" the code of the game itself.
In all the cases where a game company provides acknowledgement, support, etc for mods, they are category (1). In this case, there is assurance the mod won't harm your computer. However, in that second case, you have absolutely no certainty... It would be foolhardy for a company to provide even implied support of such mods since they don't have any idea what the executable code written by fans might do...
Not true, plenty of graphics cards and computers have died to bad mods made in dev tools.
First, the harm I'm talking about is the harm caused by malicious software such a key loggers, trojans, etc. Second, there is absolutely greater assurance UWE won't include malware in their software because they want to make money. So, they are much more likely to check the code they write and distribute. Contrast that with what a random individual might accidentally or intentionally include in the code they provide. Then, combine that with however they distribute it and the modifications that may occur along the way. If you want to roll the dice and take a chance, go for it. But don't say you weren't warned. The chance may not be all that great. Let's trust our fellow man and all that. But it is high enough to warrant mentioning. If UWE provides a link to a third party site where I go to download software and end up getting malware, yeah, I'm probably gonna blame UWE.
This project will be open source very soon. Obviously there is no warranty but at least the code will have full community scrutiny.
Somehow, I don't think UWE is going to be too appreciative of that statement, since They ARE planning on making money with this project.
The code Sunrunner releases will not be the source code for the entire game. Rather, it will be only his own source code that theoretically enables two people playing Subnautica to communicate and/or interact with each other. His code shouldn't work for someone who didn't buy the game.
"This project..." ... thought you meant "Subnautica", I get what your saying now.
(Heads up, this post got a bit longer than I expected but there is a point to the rambling lol. There is a TL;DR near the bottom if you want to skip the minor example backstory.)
There's two examples I would like to toss in the ring, in regards for the defense of category #2: Final Fantasy XI has a fan-supported add-on mod program called "Windower" and HearthStone has a fan-supported overlay called "HearthStone Deck Tracker".
Windower was originally conceived to be a benefit to Windows XP/Vista/7 players of Final Fantasy XI. The game was originally coded for PS2 but was ported to the PC and eventually the Xbox 360. But in order to keep things "fair" between all versions, the PC version originally was programmed to not allowed to run in a window or allowed to Alt-Tab. Programming-savvy players banded together to create this mod; it originally allowed users to modify the code in memory and run it in its own window - but over time, there have been many mods and add-ons created for it. Some are beneficial, such as adding a real-time in-game compass, on-screen timers for spells and abilities, and streamlining complex lines of commands to cast spells, use abilities or change gear to benefit battle conditions (the game normally allows only six commands per macro; Windower utilizes LUA scripts to allow over 100 commands per a single action).
The HDT is a much simpler feature - you run it while HearthStone is running, and it prints an overlay that runs on top of the game screen itself. If you move the HS window, the HDT overlay stays on top of the parent window. The game keeps track of what cards you've drawn and played, both yours and your opponent's. If you're playing a preconstructed deck (one you've previously made for yourself to use) then it highlights what's yet to be drawn and dims what has already been pulled from your deck. It can also keep count of how many cards are left in both players' decks, and the program can record and playback matches you've played in your web browser.
There is a fundamental difference between both programs, however. While both were created by fans of their respective communities to improve the gaming experience, the philosophy behind each are very different. Windower started out as a convenience tool to bypass the hard-coding limits put into place by the developers, but people soon learned how to "take advantage" of the situation. Players running certain scripts and add-ons could perform better in the game versus those without them, as the game would automate tasks to a degree far faster than the typical person could perform. It also allowed more unscrupulous players to track certain Notorious Monsters (rare spawns with highly-desirable item drops) efficiently and sometimes warping their character on top of the spawn if it appeared, or to bypass the game's maximum movement speed limits. For a long time the general consensus was "Windower is bad, users are BANNED!" by the general populace... but now that console support has long-since been dropped in favor of PC support only, this attitude has largely gone away (if everyone has equal opportunity, then it can't be an unfair advantage).
On the other hand, the HDT allows abnormal data-tracking than what more casual players would practically maintain, but it only tracks and presents the data that the game itself uses. In fact, HDT only pulls from the internal data packets that's presented to the user - if an opponent manages to draw three cards due to an action but does not play them during the match, the identity of said cards are not displayed. Ben Brode, director of HearthStone, has even gone on record stating that "any app you can duplicate with pen and paper already is fine." So while its usage is not largely embraced by the developers, it is allowed to be used without fear of being banned.
So what's the TL;DR here? Basically my point is, it's all in how coding modifiers for Subnautica are implemented. Sure, the fan community can create spectacular mods that bypass the game's original design and add more features into the game such as a multiplayer mode, a customizable game or a real-time mapping system. But when you have people injecting code into the game that's got to work with the game's existing programming, that could cause performance issues or game crashes and can't be supported officially, it causes some concerns. Then there's the possible issue with someone possibly injecting code to try and monitor your information, maybe gain your Steam log-in info or other such data on your computer. Mind you, I am not trying to instill fearmongering or accuse people of activities. I'm just stating - this is the age of technology and computers/software can do so many things these days. Despite the intentions of Person A or Group B to make the game more useful for the greater good, there is always the chance that Someone C will try to undermine other people's hard work for their own personal means - and regardless of the reason or the outcome, unfortunately UWE would likely have to bear the brunt of such a possible negative fallout.
While I admire the progress being made with the multiplayer modifications and wish them the best on it, I can't honestly say I can support their decisions. I don't think it's something that UWE would prevent or deny (unless the modders were trying to make it for profit obviously) but I just don't trust internal data changes that's not made by UWE themselves (unlike Windower or HDT which can only manipulate the data that's in active memory). Sorry @Sunrunner - It's nothing personal, just my opinion.
Mod creators don't usually put viruses or keyloggers in mods. Especially if not open source, that's just stupid. There's honestly no reason to put all of this work in and someone discovers a keylogger and now no one wants to use the mod.
If someone really wanted to steal all of your information, they were make some quick mod that didn't do anything, add some special effects into the screenshots/preview video pretty easily, and release. Minimal effort. See, there's really no point in making a whole functional mod if it there's an easier way to do it.
Don't quote me on this, but I don't think steam would save passwords on the computer. I'm sure it uses some way of checking if it's the same computer you're on so that the code that your computer stores won't work on anyone else's.
There will always be that person out there who's trying to do this. Thing is, you'll probably know a sketchy mod when you see it. Just like you can tell if an app is really subnautica.
But how is this any different? We are using harmony and it modifies code in memory. I don't know how that makes anything less dangerous then editing the code manually.
Regardless of all of this ↑, considering there probably won't be too many Subnautica mods being created, there could be some website or something where we verify mods' code and make sure they don't have viruses before putting them on there.
I will state though, that some regular working programs have gone to the dark side. See camstudio, it's pretty bad.
The developer, although seeing he had put work into it, said that he needed money to continue the project but was so naive to the fact that the installers had viruses regardless if you declined them in the ad-installer or not.
But at this state, it's pretty obvious we're not doing it for money. We're doing it because we love modding, not because we're trying to make a bit of money.
Like mentioned, no one has to take anyone's word for it. You don't have to install minecraft mods if you don't trust them either.
Well, see there, I didn't realize that. Memory-editing code like how the GameShark for consoles or hex memory editors for PC games work are perfectly fine in my book. As I said above:
I wasn't trying to claim you guys were up to anything unsavory or naughty, I was just pointing out what could happen. I think what you guys are doing is great; if nothing else, I'm a bit jealous.
See, my first foray into gaming was over the good ol' 56k dialup-modem service playing a great FPS called "Starsiege: Tribes." (I'm really showing my age here...) It was a standard team-based shooter that ran off of a basic physics engine - you could jump in the game but also had access to jumpjets, which was an additional aerial mobility. So while you could be blasted away by enemy fire you could also try to escape assault or pin down a hapless player. Also the core game had three 'classes' of armor: Light, Medium and Heavy. Lighter armors moved faster and stayed in the air longer, but had less durability and was restricted to weaker weapons; heavier armors moved slower and had more health, but could wield stronger weapons. Add in backpacks for more variety such as increased ammo storage, the ability to repair players' health and map-based turrets, or add a limited-use portable forcefield and it was a decent sci-fi shooter game.
Now, what changed the game for me was this community of modders back then that went by the name of "Shifter." Their Shifter mod for Starsiege: Tribes took a decent game and made it awesome! Here's a short list of what they were able to accomplish:
1. Changing the core three classes into seven unique classes, each with their own flavor (Scouts could fly longer, but could only use the Sniper/Gauss Rifles; Engineers had only basic equipment but could hack enemy deployable weapons and repair without the backpack; Assassins could appear as a friendly unit to the enemy for a short time, and sap their energy or steal their ammo)
2. Stimpacks (self-healing first aid kits) and Grenades had different functions based on your class (the Scout's Stimpacks could heal HP and restore energy but each usage increased the chance to die of poison; Engineers could chuck grenades that would damage opponents but heal teammates)
3. Certain classes gained abilities just by the collision detection with another player (Engineers could heal teammates or friendly equipment, Assassins could poison enemies, Arbiters could stun players with an EMP touch)
4. Normal non-functional doodads (map elements) could be deployed at will with new functions (such as Portable Generators that either recharged your energy, restored health or sapped the enemy with EMP pulses - but they would burn out after a while)
5. They upped the limit of constructable equipment the game would allow (Shield Walls, Laser Turrets, Pulse Cannons etc. had triple the normal deployment) and more constructables could be built (they added EMP Cannons and Rail Guns as new constructable weapons)
6. And finally... they added a freaking SCOREBOARD with high-scores and penalties! The vanilla game from the developers didn't track scores, heck it didn't even track kills... just play each match until 20 minutes passed and the team whoever Captured the Flag the most won. But Shifter showed the top 5 players on each side and their contributing points; any griefers who team-killed more than three times were booted from the server (but it was a limited 24-hour penalty though).
The reason I'm gushing with nostalgia about a 15+ year old shooter is that I agree with your points. Modders love a core game but can see so much more potential than the developers can either realize, or perhaps don't have the time or resources to implement new features. Shifter saw much potential in Starsiege: Tribes and brought more to the table than what the developers were able to do - and in turn they helped raise awareness of the game, and increased the shelf life of the game by far (when the official support for the game ended, people were still playing with the Shifter mod on personal servers for quite some time - myself included).
So, I apologize if it came off as a personal attack; I didn't mean it to be so. I'm just a bit wary of third-party software as I've been burned in the past by people that promoted mods but were in fact promoting cracked utilities - but to be fair, I was a lot more naive back then than I am now.
As far as whether or not UWE ever chooses to approve or disapprove of this mod, quite frankly I don't care and it doesn't matter. He's built his own program that just interfaces with theirs. They can't do anything to him for that. Not that I wouldn't love to see them give @Sunrunner a pat on the back for what he's done. It's awesome.
To a certain extent you have to decide if you're willing to put some trust in modders in order to run mods. Generally someone who puts that much effort into a mod that does useful things you can clearly see is not interested in putting anything malicious in their code.
Also, the idea that a game can "require" you to post your source code is simply untrue. At best it's a completely unenforceable "request". At worst it's something to be laughed at. There are plenty of KSP mods that are popular and have never opened up their source code to anyone.
I assume he meant source code was required if you wanted your mod featured on some sort of "official" site or in some sort of in-game mod browser. Sure, if you want to post your mod on a third party site, you definitely wouldn't need to meet any sort of external requirements. But then no one might ever find your mod.
As promised, I've opened up the source of the project to allow community contributors. Please find the source code here:
https://github.com/Sunrunner37/Nitrox
Additionally, I started a basic Trello to log action items:
https://trello.com/b/ftPCv2DL/subnautica-nitrox
Feel free to reach out to me with any questions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=V0b8FEI9kaI
Sorry not entirely following. If you have an idea to expand the mod, feel free to write the code and submit a pull request. (Github url can be found above)
Big shout out to the community contributors that are helping out. We are always looking for more developers - shoot me a pm for details.