Second, or third bases?
5m4llP0X
Join Date: 2017-06-26 Member: 231356Members
Join Date: 2017-06-26 Member: 231356Members
How many of you set up additional bases and what purpose does it fill?
I know the main base usually has everything--Moonpool(s), Alien Containment, Growbeds, water, fabrication, upgrades and recharge. But what about a second base so you don't have to trek all the way back to your initial?
For me: it was a small room that was right at the beginning of the inactive Lava zone. The little place had 2 Kayanite crystals, sulfur, and tons of useless Obsidian Outcrops. The ambient temperature was around 50c so it made it ideal for 6 thermal plants to power 2 Water Filtration Machines (I realize now I have an over-abundance of food, water and medpacks), a fabricator, moonpool (with modification station) and some food.
I really thought about another base before that one, but I cannot think of another location that would be nearly as beneficial. Anyone?
I know the main base usually has everything--Moonpool(s), Alien Containment, Growbeds, water, fabrication, upgrades and recharge. But what about a second base so you don't have to trek all the way back to your initial?
For me: it was a small room that was right at the beginning of the inactive Lava zone. The little place had 2 Kayanite crystals, sulfur, and tons of useless Obsidian Outcrops. The ambient temperature was around 50c so it made it ideal for 6 thermal plants to power 2 Water Filtration Machines (I realize now I have an over-abundance of food, water and medpacks), a fabricator, moonpool (with modification station) and some food.
I really thought about another base before that one, but I cannot think of another location that would be nearly as beneficial. Anyone?
Comments
But with the Cyclops being able to recharge in the Lava Zone on itself and the usability of the Cyclops rising, I don't need to recharge power cells massively at a main power base and can do most things inside the Cyclops now. The second thing is that obviously the Ghost Tree area will include the Ghost Leviathan, which isn't a good place for diving around a base, so this will probably all change soon. Not to forget that you can forget all bases where Warpers spawn nearby, so any changes in Warper spawnpoints will ruin your former base placement.
Right now I tend to think about mid size bases at key points, like QEP, Grand Reed, Lost River and TGP. Maybe 2 Cyclops to avoid long range travel from surface to the deep and back. But that's future.
The Ghost tree includes Ghost Leviathan eggs, so I'm sure this cave will be the center of Ghost Leviathan activity later. Yet I can't resist the beauty of the place to build a main observatory base there powered by thermal plants. But maybe I should think about having a long network tube base with different exit points to always stay away from a future Ghost Leviathan.
Other beautiful places I'd like to place a base:
Actual main base is a little closer to the other thermal vent at safe shallows (a bit south from the north-center end of safe shallows), as the area was better suited for the purposes. It was closer to "center" of everything, better depths for cyclops, and the area shape was just nice for surface base with still deep enough drop for Cyclops. (It is supposed to be safe area, but I have had few visits from nasties... 99% safe though.)
I already built two small auxiliary bases "anchored" at the beach of each of the big islands. Mainly for food and recharging, but also couple storages for various materials that are not available near the island, should I want to quickly make something there. This allows me to carry less with me (own inventory or in the vehicles) and thus more space for other stuff. For recharging, I just take fresh cells from that base and leave the used ones in their place (and they will be filled the next time I'll be there). Material needs for these are really not much of an issue as most of it is just titanium, which is basically garbage anyway.
(Growing stuff in cyclops mostly handles bio-needs, but sometimes I have gone into places with the faster thing, Cyclops been too darn slow for "quick" trips that end up turning to be longer than expected.)
I plan to do more similar auxiliary bases in certain locations, but haven't yet visited the outer areas that much to decide where exactly. Most likely near thermal vents, or places I expect to visit often. One more is planned for the west end of safe shallows as a starting point for trips into western areas
My auxiliary bases are just 4 platforms, single multipurpose room, 3-4 solar panels, bioreactor, something to grow some basics for food/water/bioreactor junk, and couple storages.
In any case, I am currently waiting for an annoying bug to be fixed before I continue with the game; without the fix, all I do further may end up being more or less wasted.
My main base is just north of the cave entrance to the JSC, on a slope that leads from the SS to the KF. It's a nice roomy spot that gives me a clean line to the BKZ, thereby being fit both for early and late game. The secondary one is a tower structure built into that alcove just around the corner of the DRF area. It's smaller than my first base, in part by having only one moonpool, but it gets all furniture and a small resource depot.
Other bases I enjoy making are one on the bridge over the MF that leads from the BZ to the Mountain Island, one at the crater, and one on the largest plateau next to the Aurora. Thinking about building myself an LZ one next update. All bases serve as "breather" points, where I can save, store food, recharge what needs recharging, collect resources around, etc. Also, they're spots that allow a nice view.
I used to like having a base in the (D)GR, but until critters either stop attacking docked vehicles or be made unable to reach them, that one's a no-go. I'm interested in building someting on the "island" on the other side of the Aurora, but I'm lacking tools to do that safely. And I used to have a beach home on the Floating Island, but I kinda stopped feeling like doing that. Part lack of tools to efficiently build on land, part island becoming more whole, and part feeling like there's some need for surface structures to differentiate the experience.
Stuff that stops me from building/wanting to build more:
The only thing you really do in a base is recharge or respawn, but if you respawn you'll want to be where all your stuff and food are produced.
Also the way energy-storage work based on the number and type of generator doesn't help.
I only built 4 base in my last game, with only 2 having any reason to exist.
The first became my main base
The second was to explore a Jelly Shroom Caves and was abandoned as soon as the Seamoth allowed me to refill Oxygen forever
The third was me testing the range of the scanner room
The 4th one was at the entrance of the Deep Grand Reef, to have food/drink generator
I don't have a problem with limited resources, it's part of the fun to find new place to mine and once you get the Drill you get new choice.
The game would need some heavy rebalancing to really incentivize multiple bases; something would need to be done to sharply limit the player's effective range. The only survival game I can think of where I typically build multiple bases is Better Than Wolves, and that game has whole mechanics around basically forcing you to - there are resources you need that only appear farther away than you can get in a single day's travel, and being out at night is guaranteed suicide. So you end up building "waypoint" bases to travel from place to place and "gather" bases to use while you collect resources.
It would be cool to see the same in Subnautica, but some basic gameplay mechanics would have to be changed in ways that I think the majority of the playerbase (those not looking for a serious survival game) would be strongly against.
One of the simplest changes you could make to move sharply in that direction would be to give the Seamoth, Prawn, and Cyclops "oxygen pools" that run out over time instead of allowing them to generate oxygen from power.
*cough* *cough*
Next to the QEP moonpool.
FEATURING:
Also: Cameras have like a 350m range before getting super distorted, so that also sucks.
Although I said I didn't like this before, It could make for a good hardcore-only feature. The part of me that hates that idea of limited air in subs maybe dislikes it because if it were just thrown into the game right now it'd feel really unsupported to me. Moonpools would be the only way to recharge air quickly, and they're just so expensive. 4 titanium ingots is almost as much as a cyclops needs, on top of an advanced circuit. And I really would hate for the game to be made tedious by needing moonpools every X distance for the sole purpose of getting air.
I really do wish that building multiple bases had more tangible benefits. You really only ever need one. You can spend time building more, which has some benefit, but it always feels grossly unnecessary. and expensive. Like many others I only build one base since the map is so small that having that single main base in the shallows allows me to easily get anywhere I need to be. It gets even easier to get around the more warp-gates you unlock. (Why would I build a base in the lava zones when I can just warp there from the QEP?) Since we always spawn in the shallows, and its just so perfectly central to everything, I've never had a legitimate reason to build a second base, and anytime I think about doing so, I have to stop and ask myself why. I can never give myself a worthwhile answer.
It will only happen if the game is set up such that the player needs multiple bases to progress, and for that to happen there has to be things that the player can't do without multiple bases. Not just "takes longer", because people will gladly just take the extra time rather than spend the materials. There needs to be things that are flat out impossible, or nearly so, without multiple bases. Otherwise for most players it'll never happen.
I'm not sure how I feel about oxygen being restricted. It doesn't sound bad, but how would it affect fires (their ability to start and their trouble when they start) and player stress (you can afford to linger with energy, not with oxygen)? And I agree with @Who_needs_Armor that this is less about building a base here and there and more about building a moonpool here and there. I reckon a midpoint where a vessel devoid of oxygen can/will increase the energy consumption to generate oxygen could work, as it gives more flexibility than the moonpool and the surface, but it's the kind of thing for a hardcore option.
You do realize that the Moonpool cost can be brought to reasonable price with like one line of code, right?
My main base have 3 moonpools and I have a 4th in my "Deep Grand Reef" relay, the only reason I didn't have more is because there is no reason to build any more bases. I also have 2 Seamoth, a Prawn and I think the Developers wish they could make us lose at least one Cyclops.
I'm not grinding desperately for resources myself, mining with a Prawn is FUN and who here don't have completely superfluous room or extension to their seabases?
Your idea would make it needlessly hardcore (because the total dive duration is still based on energy, prone to single point failure)
Mine intend to make the game EASIER, yes, I wonder how big I have to write that until people finally READ THE THING and understand IT WOULD BE EASIER !!! (I dare anyone to prove me wrong in that topic)
Right now, even if the Dev added the ability to produce Oxygen with plants in base or to dock the Cyclops, to steal @Who_needs_Armor criticism both would be nearly unsupported.
Why? I ask you: Would you use a base that have NO POWER but oxygen?
If you have power your seamoth/cyclops can go to the surface, if you have those you have infinite air. Just adding a power-source along food plants, and you can recharge seamoth/Cyclops/food/make water.
This is not about making the game "harder", this is about finding a feature that give a reason to have fun with Seabase.
And preferably in a better way than pulling the (energy plug) to have player desperate for energy in a way worse than we were desperate for stacking Air-tank.
If wanting to make a game fun for a few more hours is being mad, then I'M THE MADDEST PERSON IN THIS OCEAN !!!!!! (I already hold the title for this thread)
I used to make a tertiary base in the mushroom forest because it was safe and looked brilliant at night but having to constantly run around for every resource got old real quick. I would have considered making on as a way station in the deep grand reef but there's too many crab squids, warpers, and now ghost leviathans down there.
With the teleporters, there's really no need to build anything.
Pretty much. The thing is though I'm not sure I'd want them to be removed either though. It's a pain to get all the way back down to the PTG and the PCF without them. It's hard to find the middle ground.
Some cave pathes don't allow a Prawn to fit through (although almost fixed), otherwise you'd be right.
But I think the bases originally were thought as air and energy suppliers for the vehicles that could not run endlessly on air and energy. Then the devs did the scanner room to increase the base use, but it's either too powerful or too useless the way it's implemented.
The only other exclusive I can think of for bases are the alien containments. But that would better pay out if you'd have to breed creatures to extract stuff from their juvenile form with the transfuser to make use of it with other game features, like a hatching enzyme formula based on juvenile creature proteins from most important creatures. Then the player had to hunt game eggs, breed them in containments and use the transfuser.
Voila! a mini base that produces more water than i can drink. takes quite a decent amount of time to set that up since all them thermal reactors requires an ingot each but its well worth it!
heres my last set-up
The thing to know here is to build the thermal reactors first and let them get to fully charged then you build the WF Machines one by one and watch the power drain go. When they drain more power than whats being produced you know you've reached your limit of how many machines you can have/how many reactors you've built. If you want more WFM then you just need to build more Thermal Reactors.
Then you should realize that a special base near the Lava Sea at incredible temperatures is the best for water production purposes, as they recharge in no time with max heat permanently availably for armies of thermal plants placable everywhere. Or better just put up a super thermal plant farm at the Lava Sea and transmit the power to a base above. Never did it, but should work perfectly unless the power transmit goes with energy loss. Then the base would have to be directly at the Lava Sea itself.
I don't mean to be rude, but I've read the O2 thread at least five times since it was first put up and I still don't get what you're saying (in regards to vehicles; bases are mostly clear). I think the problem for me is that you jump in with detailed proposals, but haven't written a summary or introduction to make the why clear. I have literally no clue what about what I said was "needlessly hardcore" as by all means it's your proposal that seems hardcore to me, splitting up ship management into additional parameters. Not bad, but I fail to see how that's supposed to be more (exploration) player friendly.
I've voiced my displeasure about SN cheapening recipes without regard for coherency several times. I am not interested in a cheap moonpool. Right now, it's one of the very few recipes I consider proper.
Although another issue of tech balancing, I agree. Furthermore I think tech should be polished far more now that the game is getting no tech updates anymore.
From a logic and coherency viewpoint every working machine should need a chip and wiring at least. That increases chips massively, so the recipe should downgrade chip ingredients to 1 silver and 1 coral.
My objection to that is that the chip then becomes a moot point; sort of a non-ingredient the way titanium is in anything but big building. It does not appeal to me. I'd prefer if chips (and advanced wiring kits) would be treated as an ingredient for multi-program tech. Ie, the scanner, the builder, vehicles, the fabricator, the mod station, the MVB, the scanner room, the vehicle mod station, etc. That seems to me a good way to define the purpose of chips. Of course, some mono-program hq tech (like the moonpool) would be fine incorporating it too, but not stuff like the rechargers or the torpedo modules.
In my opinion, your variation is "hardcore" because rather than offering more possibility, your idea worsen the flaws of using a single resource for the entirety of submarine gameplay. If the game cause you to lose energy, you lose every possibility that could allow you to survive.
This is as if being hurt to 50% health made you start losing health continuously. HARDCORE.
I consider mine making the game easier & more fun because it lessen the burden. To take the same analogy this is as if you had health bar and a weak but regenerating shield bar. It act as a buffer while you run on adrenaline. Instead of dying to a low-level pest after escaping an Epic battle, which isn't fun, only frustrating.
In our case, energy and O² would give last ditch solution for each other while allowing new/different game mechanic that would not work using energy alone.
And it definitely wouldn't impede exploration. Along the rebalance you would get +30% O² in air-tank and -30% repetitive return to your "infinite O² generator". YES you would have to check the subs O² bar once in a while, but it's less problematic than energy and you can recharge at the surface without a moonpool.
For the moonpool, myself I don't consider its cost a problem either, or at least mostly irrelevant to the problem that were reported with seabase. Recipe can be rebalanced very easily, the problem is getting proper feedback.
You use the Seabase for Food, Water, Energy.
You use submarine to move all around the map and this impact how many Seabase you want to build and how desirable they are.
O² may have taken a backseat early in development, but the context and features available changed.
If you want to improve Seabase, we have to consider the context at large.
But to help: What would you think about features of the Seabase that work differently in specific biomes or depth? (ex: Alien Containment)
You can get in and out of wrecks - scanning and looting what few items are in each - quickly and easily. I've never felt I needed to make a base for one, or felt it would make things easier. It would certainly be a waste of time. The base would be useless after you're done exploring the wreck, which takes such a small amount of time anyways.