I have a hard time believing this, simply because no one else has ever complained about anything like that, and I'm sure they would have, since that sounds pretty egregious.
Then you clearly haven't seen the multitude of "this game is toxic" or "this community sucks" threads/posts people have made over the years. Every time they are always told that "it's not that bad" and that "I don't see it" or "it must be something you're doing" and they're brushed off (just like you're doing to me now).. Most of them have undoubtedly quit NS2 entirely (don't see them around anymore)
It's also highly likely that the vast majority of those who would complain, don't want to bother taking the time because they either don't care enough, or they don't think anything will happen.
I was in a game the other day when I got forced to Marine, so I typed out "ugh Marine again fml" and immediately 4 people started complaining that they wished they could switch also. At that point I said "then PLEASE go on the forum, I'm literally the ONLY person to complain about it" and the response I got... "nah I don't play the game enough" and "it won't help, devs don't listen anyway" One veteran player who has been around as long as I have even piped up with "they just delete any criticism they don't like"...
I'm the only one who is persistent enough (and dumb enough) to keep complaining about it.
Innocent until proven guilty, shitting on this guy isn't really helping. Could be his fault, or maybe not. It doesn't really matter, since all he's really asking for is a better ability to switch teams so that he can avoid this kind of thing in the first place. Benefit of the doubt, ya know
HandschuhJoin Date: 2005-03-08Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer
I agree with the switchbutton, currently I think of two ways to implement it
- to advertise "I want to change" to someone with similar Skilllevel (or that the game is balanced afterwards)
If my team is to strong and I have 4k , I advertise I want to switch, then it selects ppl an offer to switch to get more fair teams afterwards... (which is every player who is lower than me currently)
- There is a switchpool, for example I want to switch, someoneelse as well... 3 players... combined avg. 2,5k Hiveskill... in order to switch there should be 2,5k hiveskill or a hiveskill which is lower or higher to even out the teams again...
I have a hard time believing this, simply because no one else has ever complained about anything like that, and I'm sure they would have, since that sounds pretty egregious.
Then you clearly haven't seen the multitude of "this game is toxic" or "this community sucks" threads/posts people have made over the years. Every time they are always told that "it's not that bad" and that "I don't see it" or "it must be something you're doing" and they're brushed off (just like you're doing to me now).. Most of them have undoubtedly quit NS2 entirely (don't see them around anymore)
And to be perfectly honest, I never really understood those sentiments. NS2 is harmless compared to truly toxic game communities.
@MoFo1 give this man a bloody "Switch Teams" button already! x)
alas the switch command is a cheat
BUT
F4 -> j1 or j2 -> yay
is not
I think shine prevents you from going to the ready room after shuffling.
A dedicated switch request would be a good idea, in my opinion. Although after thinking about it, switching individual people would be better than whole teams. Just have people enter a pool of players who want to switch, and if there's two with sufficiently similar hive skills they'll be switched. "Sufficiently similar" could be a difference value set by whoever runs the server.
This prevents upsetting people getting on the wrong team after they were already on the right one, and allows individuals to purposefully switch with each other. (E.g. if a group of people wants to play together.)
I think shine prevents you from going to the ready room after shuffling.
That option is server specific. And as a perfect example of my luck.
My favorite server is set up so you can't f4 to ready room after a shuffle. (the only thing I hate about it!!)
The one server I hate above all others lets you f4 to ready room after shuffle. (the only reason I play there!!)
The second quote is more relevant to this discussion, but it references the first quote so I'm including both for good measure. Just some fodder for thought.
Aggressive:
Shuffle is determined by averaging player skills which have been calculated using the offset. Of a player’s two skill values ([skill + offset] and [skill – offset]), whichever value results in the lowest team standard deviation will be used. For a given server population, this system seeks the most statistically "even" game possible with the lowest possible standard deviation for each team. Servers running this mode will see team win-rates move toward 50/50 (subject to the limits of hive accuracy). Better players will generally be forced to play on the team they're worse at (and vice versa).
Moderate:
Shuffle is determined by a player's [skill + offset] and [skill - offset] values, but with the server’s total average offset subtracted before shuffling. For a given server population, this system seeks a blend of the aggressive and classic modes by attempting to reduce the severity of certain drawbacks of either. Servers running this mode will see team win-rates that reflect the average difference in skill on the server. Most team assignments will be random. Exceptional players may still be forced to their worse team.
Classic:
Shuffle is determined by using each player's average skill (without a + or - offset). This mode is essentially the current shuffle. For a given server population, team assignments will be uniformly random regardless of individual player skills.
2. Allow server operators to select the mode they want to be the standard shuffle mode for their server.
3. Allow server operators to force shuffle using whichever mode they want, even if it's not their server's standard shuffle mode.
4. Indicate a server's standard shuffle mode in the server information window of the server browser.
1. Give players the option to set a default team preference in their settings.
2. Give players the ability to select a team preference on a per-round basis. Do this by allowing them to switch their default preference (if set) at the start of each round, before a shuffle vote. To select or update a preference, there would be a simple on-screen interface allowing them to select marines or aliens. If they've set a default team preference in their settings, it will be selected by default. If they haven't set a default preference in their settings, no option will be selected. If they join a team before the shuffle vote is complete, that team would be locked in as their preference.
3. Was the player placed on their preferred team? After each shuffle, record the resulting user statistic as a preference_mismatch value. The goal is to keep track of the historical percentage of rounds that a player isn't successfully placed on their preferred team. Update this value once per shuffle. Commit this data to the historical total only once per round, at the end, using the most recent value generated. If a player switches teams after getting placed on their preferred team, it shouldn't be recorded as a preference mismatch. If a player is forced onto their non-preferred team because another shuffle vote happens, then it should be recorded as a preference mismatch.
4. Prevent gaming the system by only recording preference values for rounds longer than a specific duration - maybe 5 minutes?
5. Let server operators set a 'team preference' flag. This would introduce team preference data to the server's shuffle algorithm. Not every server would have this flag enabled. In servers ignoring team preference data, your team preference and result would still be recorded, but it would have no influence over that particular server's shuffle results.
6. Don't use a strict karma system. On servers running the team preference flag, allow operators to designate a % value as the server's team preference override threshold. The system would correct the problem of a player consistently being placed on their non-preferred team by giving them their first choice in the event that their historical preference_mismatch value crosses the threshold. In the event that multiple players in a server cross this threshold in a given round, randomly assign them to their preferred teams until the maximum allowed standard deviation is reached (see next point).
7. Allowing per-user team preference to impinge upon the shuffle algorithms comes at a cost in the form of increased standard deviation, and thus reduced balance (with respect to each algorithm's goal). So server operators would need to be able to establish a maximum allowed standard deviation value which would limit preference-honoring whenever doing so would raise a team's standard deviation above that value.
Wait what? Who the hell is vote kicking you because you're playing the game well? Need to take that up with whatever server op is running things... or find a better server.
Snort. You think that doing nothing for 90% of the game is playing the game well? Well, I suppose if you had difficulty throwing the welder "far away" to axe a harvester...
Sometimes being a meatshield during a crucial push is essential, if for example you were defending skylights when comm asks for all hands to push cargo, and skylights hasn't been under attack for 40+ seconds, I mean yeah even a meatshield may be better in that situation. That definitely would NOT be kick-worthy unless you start picking a fight with the commander. Do you pick fights when people ask you to do things? If not, and you get kicked anyways, that is a shitty server and must be avoided.
Hi, toxic guy here. Seen him (pretty sure it was him at least) on a server once. It's not just that he does nothing, is pretty abusive in chat too. Will vote F1 every time. As mentioned upthread, he is the common denominator. You can start a vote, but it still needs to be passed. Sure, frivolous votes get passed sometimes, but it takes some doing to get kicked consistently.
p.s. for all my toxicity, I've never been vote kicked. Switch is a good idea, but this woe-is-me story is just ridiculous.
Take the following scenario, 1-2 skulks are biting C-12 res, I'm the only marine on that side of the map (in topo) and I move to defend/ambush when they move forward.
1) If I listen to others and "try to save the res" it's literally a guaranteed failure 99% of the time, then the skulks move forward and we lose topo too.
2) If I ignore the command and wait to ambush, I'm able to kill them and defend topo a good 80-85% of the time, then I can rebuild C-12, but my team yells at me and calls for kick votes.
If I do #1 I'm doing nothing, accomplishing nothing, and I get shamed at the end for my low acc... If I do #2 I'm getting harassed and/or vote kicked...
There is no way to win besides improving my aim by an insane margin overnight (which won't happen unless I magically get younger)
Edit: sorry for double post, I'm on my phone
Pretty sure I've raged at mofo over this exact scenario. I find it infuriating to see a marine camp the topo vent while a skull bites down c12. I guess I'm just toxic.
Pretty sure I've raged at mofo over this exact scenario. I find it infuriating to see a marine camp the topo vent while a skull bites down c12. I guess I'm just toxic.
Kindred toxicity. What are your some of your other favorite toxicity triggers?
One of my favorites is the always game-winning "camp in the maintenance access-to-comp vents while the ventilation extractor is slowly eaten by a lethargic skulk" maneuver. Were I not so toxic I might be better able to appreciate that kind of skill.
I also have literally never seen anybody kicked for low skill.
Definitely seen commanders kicked because of low skill, not just out of the chair, either.
Coincidentally, I've seen it happen yesterday in Dirty Bomb. I was helping a lad, because he had trouble giving us ammo packs and using his airstrikes (Skyhammer merc). However, the team was havin' none of it and vote-kicked him
The biggest issue with Dirty Bomb is that there are no community servers and all servers have similar names. Close to no community building happens as you are constantly dropped in games with random people. So new players will have issues, especially when not many of players of my type are on these random "dev" servers. And no one is using the "fav server" option, because it's so damn hidden.
The thing is, don't kick newbies from servers. Everyone was once a newbie and newbies who are willing to learn are a dime a dozen... But kicking em out of the chair if they don't want to listen is a must. Back when I still played NS2 I've had the most fun round with newbies eager to learn while sitting in the chair or out in the field. Even with some toxic shits pissing all of the server, moaning and groaning how that n00b should fuck off and shit, usually they tend to settle down after I tell em to secure that shit or leave, in my "charming" sarcastic way
But still, I feed of the tears of whiners and lamers anyway, I'm strange like that. It's really hard to piss me off in game, which somehow also tends to piss off people even more somehow. Aah that vicious circle of rage fed by my indifference and sarcasm, you lot gotta try that some time it's really energizing
I definitely agree that players shouldn't be kicked for their low skill. But if a marine refuses to do anything except sit in a vent, then some tasteful verbal abuse is appropriate. They can always mute their abuser.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2017
Well @MoFo1 did explain it as his tactic, he himself said has no business trying to go in there to meet the Skulk on it's territory as he doesn't see his chances of survival as favorable. While he does have a chance when he camps in that vent to kill the beast when it goes by towards the next RT at the cost of one RT vs the cost of one marine and portentially 2 RT's and still getting yelled at
Hate to do this, but this also reminds me of Dirty Bomb where people started to vote me off the server, because I refuse to go into a heavy combat area with one of the squishy non-combat medics, to try and revive 1 maybe 2 players. With a ~75% death rate for me and ~25% survival rate for them, if I were to do that. The thing is, I could do it and if I was very lucky survive, but that risk is too damn great. Those players were simply out of position, pushing way too far into enemy territory.
FYI "Sparks" is my fav reviver medic she isn't supposed to die, she is the one that keeps the team alive, has the highest mobility, while also the lowest health. So sacrificing two players, who were behind enemy lines, while keeping the rest alive during an enemy push to keep bodies on the objective, that is a good tactic.
Even with me at the top of the scoreboard with support and even kills using my weak ass SMG/pistol, basically carrying the team... YET, I still got booted of the server, because they apparently didn't see it like that.
I'd say, "communicate, adapt and react" instead of "rage, judge and kick"
Well @MoFo1 did explain it as his tactic, he himself said has no business trying to go in there to meet the Skulk on it's territory as he doesn't see his chances of survival as favorable. While he does have a chance when he camps in that vent to kill the beast when it goes by towards the next RT at the cost of one RT vs the cost of one marine and portentially 2 RT's and still getting yelled at
I hate this justification. First, sitting in the vent guarantees that you never improve (and he hasn't). Second, engaging a skull on your rt is hardly engaging it "on it's own territory"; try sneaking up on it. Third, mofo is essentially refusing to do 90% of the things a marine is supposed to do during the game (instead opting to camp in a corner or vent). It's comparable to playing basketball and refusing to ever take the ball (because you are sure you'll fumble it). This is a team game, and you are refusing to even try to do you part. Of course, it's also a public game with strangers, and you are free to play pretty much how you like (and shouldn't be kicked for poor play). But you don't have a right to be free from criticism for your performance.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2017
Well I can't comment on that and I feel like we're placing @MoFo1 on trial here. I still believe that thinking outside the box for some people is indeed, them giving their best.
I for one always play quite differently from other people, not using the "set in stone" tactics, which also tends to be thorn in the side of the other team as it's hard to anticipate WTF I'm up to, but it doesn't always work out. How I play is usually also high risk/high reward. Although NS2 is less open to this, it is still how I used to play and quite successful at times, dealing either huge blows to the enemy or getting important behind the scenes information about the enemy or in a worst case scenario, losing my stuff/lifeform. Maybe Mofo1 is kinda similar in that aspect, I mean if his choices are aiding the team in his way, that's still good right...
But as I said, I cannot comment on that and also don't feel Mofo1 is supposed to be on trial here, Just saying I can see his point of view as well as yours, but sometimes you've gotta let someone do their own thing... Even if NS2 is more of a one trick pony, alternative tactics can surprise you from time to time and it keeps the game fresh
If it seems like I'm putting mofo on trial, its because I'm annoyed at how he portrayed members of the community like myself: as toxic elitists unjustifiably persecuting a player for his unorthodox (but clever and effective) tactics.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited December 2017
Just add a 'switch' feature that allows people to type 'switch' and join the other team if a player on that team is willing to switch with them. TG had this custom plugin and it worked great. The code is somewhere in the github source release since the server closed its doors:
I guess it was a mistake using veil as an example since certain people are fixating solely on... THE VENT!! (dun dun duuuunn)
And in reality it was a bad example as Veil is one of my worst maps by far. I should've used Refinery.
@Hobbes I only remember ever actually naming one person as toxic since naming and shaming is forbidden. (and it wasn't you)
All I can say is that I would've never portrayed anyone as being toxic or elitist unless I saw them acting that way in-game or on the forum. If I did name you, you must've done something at the time to warrant it.
I only remember ever actually naming one person as toxic since naming and shaming is forbidden. (and it wasn't you)
All I can say is that I would've never portrayed anyone as being toxic or elitist unless I saw them acting that way in-game or on the forum. If I did name you, you must've done something at the time to warrant it.
Let's see. In these two you call entire community toxic.
I was finally pushed to give up NS2 after 3000+ hours due to how toxic this community has become... (Specifically the NA community as I don't play on EU servers due to ping)
How ironic to see posts like this also popping up... And the high skill elitist jerks are saying the problem lies with me. Clearly the problem is them.
They drove away a player who seeds servers and commands.. And they're happy about it.
You know what.. It doesn't matter anymore. I'm fed up with this extremely toxic community of elitist snobs. Have fun with your shit one sided games and your 3k pro's dominating entire teams of 1k skill casuals.. Have fun insulting and taunting anyone who isn't as pro as you are. I hope all you elitist dicks burn in hell. This community was so great when I first started playing, it's sad to see the cesspool of shit it's become.
RIP NS2.. I'm out.. Rejoice Assholes. (mods you can just delete my forum account)
The rest just show a pattern. I did cut some quotes down to save space, which may remove some context from his words. This is already a long post and I didn't think the context was worth making it longer. You can use the quote to go see the post in its original context if you really want to.
I hope the comp scene slowly can restart. I always wanted to join in, but never could reliably play.
That will depend on the comp players tbh..
It really seems like It was their own self entitled "UWE owes us everything" attitude that killed comp more than anything else.. (ie refusing to use a seperate comp build when its pretty much exactly what they asked for, a stable build unaffected by recent updates)
That being said I hope comp restarts simply because it drew most of the 2-3k+ "carry" players that commonly ruin pub balance, into gathers against each other..
At any rate my complaint mainly stems from the fact that these players will refuse to go to a server with people playing at their own skill level. Even after you point one out to them they'll stay on the server where the best player besides them has less than 1/2 the average kdr they have. They go Marine in every single game unless shuffle forces otherwise (and some of them even reconnect to stack Marine, refusing to play Alien at all) they never play defensively or command. Instead they're always rushing straight to the enemy team's naturals (going for the throat) where they sit and basically camp the spawn for as many kills as they can get.
They are literally SO far above everyone else that for all intents and purposes they may as well be using full on aimbots and wallhacks.. Which quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are.
Yeah except a lot of the high skilled players seem to get their fun by stomping the lesser skilled players...
3000+ guys who stay on a server where the next highest skill is under 1500.. And if you point out another server with 2000+ players their response is "I like it better here"
Yeah that's because it's easier for them to feel "pro"
I wouldn't want it removed simply because it's one of the few ways to spot one of these god-like pro jerks when they change their name to go incognito... Which they do ALL THE TIME!
You can see that 3000+ hive score next to their fake name (usually along with a couple badges) and recognize that they're probably one of those players that ruin games, which leads you to check their steam profile to get their real name.. Without it you won't recognize who they are until halfway through the game when their kills are skyrocketing. Hence there's no attempt to balance the teams, and no attempt to use teamwork/coordination to avoid that god-like pro and get a cheap base rush win...
Anything that clearly marks the high skill pro's and how far above everyone else they are is helpful.
I could care less about CS/CoD players, I'm tired of all the elitist ***holes in the NS2 community who think everyone should be at their level because it's "so easy"
These people who rage at someone on their team for being "noob" because that person can't run into a room and solo half the enemy team like they can. Because if you can't take on 4 Marines alone as a Skulk and win nearly every time, you're just a **** player right?
Even worse, these people who intentionally look for green rookie friendly servers with low skill players so they can stomp the crap out of everyone, then get that high and mighty elitist attitude of "I'm just pro, get good noob" when they have more kills than everyone in the server combined and people (understandably) complain about them ruining the server (which they are) - I've even suggested to some of them when a white non rookie server is populated that they should go play there, and the typical response is "nah I don't like that server, It's more fun here" - Translation "I just want to stomp on rookies, not play against people on my own level"
The reason NS2 has such a low population in the first place is because of these elitist douchebags ruining the game for everyone around them. That is why nearly every sale is followed by the standard "NS2 has the worst community of any online game I've ever played blah blah" threads.
Let the trial continue because it has no bearing on the validity of his request!
There were (and still are) a lot of 3k+ players that are total D-bags. In it just to ruin as many games as possible.
Still don't see where I named anyone. Unless they specifically
- seek out the lowest skilled servers to play on
- change their names on a daily/hourly basis in an attempt to not be recognized.
- Rage at anyone who can't get kills (especially rookies)
- Literally do nothing but spawncamp ip's/eggs to boost kdr
Then they shouldn't feel like I'm referring to them...
Regardless of Mofo, his skill, or his attitude a switch and or a swap feature built into vanilla, shine, or NS2+ would be GREAT.
Mofo is not the question or the answer. What he is requesting in this thread is good for everyone.
Kinda defeats the point of shuffling the teams though? Could always do like Rising Storm 2 and make the matches two rounds long, switching the teams and settling tie breakers on a score. Though, it looks like the solution to stop MoFo1 moaning may be beyond the talents of humankind.
I guess it was a mistake using veil as an example since certain people are fixating solely on... THE VENT!! (dun dun duuuunn)
And in reality it was a bad example as Veil is one of my worst maps by far. I should've used Refinery.
@Hobbes I only remember ever actually naming one person as toxic since naming and shaming is forbidden. (and it wasn't you)
All I can say is that I would've never portrayed anyone as being toxic or elitist unless I saw them acting that way in-game or on the forum. If I did name you, you must've done something at the time to warrant it.
MoFo the point I was making really has nothing to do with whether you were naming anyone. You were complaining about a segment of the ns2 population (the "elitist douchebags") that behaves in a certain way - they criticize you for your playstyle, and try to kick you. I've seen you make this same complaint again and again over the years. While I agree that kicking you for playing poorly isn't justified, I also think that the criticism is pretty reasonable and to be expected - and hardly shows that critic is a toxic asshole. You don't have a right to play this competitive team game like an idiot and remain immune from criticism.
Essentially I'm tired of people like you complaining about this community, because honestly it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
- seek out the lowest skilled servers to play on
- change their names on a daily/hourly basis in an attempt to not be recognized.
- Rage at anyone who can't get kills (especially rookies)
- Literally do nothing but spawncamp ip's/eggs to boost kdr
But if you want to pretend otherwise, be my guest.
It's obvious that they are pretty restricted in fact. I explained the behaviors of said toxic elitist d-bag players very clearly in all those posts back then. Those were just the 4 worst (and most common) examples.
You keep trying to make it seem like all my complaints are due to people harassing me alone. Making it out like I'm some toxic jerk of a player who trolls all the time then wonders why they get kicked.
That is simply not the case. As I've said before the vast majority of the toxicity I've seen in my years on NS2 hasn't even been directed at me.
Honestly it seems like you took personal offense to the accusations I made, which you shouldn't have unless you were doing the very things I was complaining about.
It's obvious that they are pretty restricted in fact. I explained the behaviors of said toxic elitist d-bag players very clearly in all those posts back then. Those were just the 4 worst (and most common) examples.
You keep trying to make it seem like all my complaints are due to people harassing me alone. Making it out like I'm some toxic jerk of a player who trolls all the time then wonders why they get kicked.
That is simply not the case. As I've said before the vast majority of the toxicity I've seen in my years on NS2 hasn't even been directed at me.
Honestly it seems like you took personal offense to the accusations I made, which you shouldn't have unless you were doing the very things I was complaining about.
As a server op, I think a switch plugin feature would be great and I would love to have it. But I feel as if it would ruin the shuffle more often than not.
What happens during the scenario where a new player wants to swap teams and a 4K player swaps with them? Situations like that would be more than common, I feel. Obviously not as drastic as that, most of the time. But they’d still occur, more likely in the 2k range I imagine.
Do we limit it to only like hive skill players swapping? What do we do about that.
I’m also not quite sure how it would work now with full teams and the way the readyroom/spectator limits work. I believe it would glitch out. But I’m sure that’s something that could be fixed.
Making it out like I'm some toxic jerk of a player who trolls all the time then wonders why they get kicked.
This is quite literally your modus operandi. So much so that you had to change your steam name just so people wouldn’t recognize you and immediately pass judgement on anything you say without reading it, Joe Cool. (removed incorrect information about banning, I guess I saw a different name all that time ago. Rest of my point still stands)
Comments
Then you clearly haven't seen the multitude of "this game is toxic" or "this community sucks" threads/posts people have made over the years. Every time they are always told that "it's not that bad" and that "I don't see it" or "it must be something you're doing" and they're brushed off (just like you're doing to me now).. Most of them have undoubtedly quit NS2 entirely (don't see them around anymore)
It's also highly likely that the vast majority of those who would complain, don't want to bother taking the time because they either don't care enough, or they don't think anything will happen.
I was in a game the other day when I got forced to Marine, so I typed out "ugh Marine again fml" and immediately 4 people started complaining that they wished they could switch also. At that point I said "then PLEASE go on the forum, I'm literally the ONLY person to complain about it" and the response I got... "nah I don't play the game enough" and "it won't help, devs don't listen anyway" One veteran player who has been around as long as I have even piped up with "they just delete any criticism they don't like"...
I'm the only one who is persistent enough (and dumb enough) to keep complaining about it.
Thank you!
- to advertise "I want to change" to someone with similar Skilllevel (or that the game is balanced afterwards)
If my team is to strong and I have 4k , I advertise I want to switch, then it selects ppl an offer to switch to get more fair teams afterwards... (which is every player who is lower than me currently)
- There is a switchpool, for example I want to switch, someoneelse as well... 3 players... combined avg. 2,5k Hiveskill... in order to switch there should be 2,5k hiveskill or a hiveskill which is lower or higher to even out the teams again...
Somehow that you could do it quickly.
alas the switch command is a cheat
BUT
F4 -> j1 or j2 -> yay
is not
And to be perfectly honest, I never really understood those sentiments. NS2 is harmless compared to truly toxic game communities.
I think shine prevents you from going to the ready room after shuffling.
A dedicated switch request would be a good idea, in my opinion. Although after thinking about it, switching individual people would be better than whole teams. Just have people enter a pool of players who want to switch, and if there's two with sufficiently similar hive skills they'll be switched. "Sufficiently similar" could be a difference value set by whoever runs the server.
This prevents upsetting people getting on the wrong team after they were already on the right one, and allows individuals to purposefully switch with each other. (E.g. if a group of people wants to play together.)
That option is server specific. And as a perfect example of my luck.
My favorite server is set up so you can't f4 to ready room after a shuffle. (the only thing I hate about it!!)
The one server I hate above all others lets you f4 to ready room after shuffle. (the only reason I play there!!)
Go figure. lol
And then...
Snort. You think that doing nothing for 90% of the game is playing the game well? Well, I suppose if you had difficulty throwing the welder "far away" to axe a harvester...
Hi, toxic guy here. Seen him (pretty sure it was him at least) on a server once. It's not just that he does nothing, is pretty abusive in chat too. Will vote F1 every time. As mentioned upthread, he is the common denominator. You can start a vote, but it still needs to be passed. Sure, frivolous votes get passed sometimes, but it takes some doing to get kicked consistently.
p.s. for all my toxicity, I've never been vote kicked. Switch is a good idea, but this woe-is-me story is just ridiculous.
Pretty sure I've raged at mofo over this exact scenario. I find it infuriating to see a marine camp the topo vent while a skull bites down c12. I guess I'm just toxic.
One of my favorites is the always game-winning "camp in the maintenance access-to-comp vents while the ventilation extractor is slowly eaten by a lethargic skulk" maneuver. Were I not so toxic I might be better able to appreciate that kind of skill.
Definitely seen commanders kicked because of low skill, not just out of the chair, either.
Ah, sorry. I forgot commanders existed there for a minute.
Let me specify.
I have never seen field players kicked for low skill.
The biggest issue with Dirty Bomb is that there are no community servers and all servers have similar names. Close to no community building happens as you are constantly dropped in games with random people. So new players will have issues, especially when not many of players of my type are on these random "dev" servers. And no one is using the "fav server" option, because it's so damn hidden.
The thing is, don't kick newbies from servers. Everyone was once a newbie and newbies who are willing to learn are a dime a dozen... But kicking em out of the chair if they don't want to listen is a must. Back when I still played NS2
But still, I feed of the tears of whiners and lamers anyway, I'm strange like that. It's really hard to piss me off in game, which somehow also tends to piss off people even more somehow. Aah that vicious circle of rage fed by my indifference and sarcasm, you lot gotta try that some time it's really energizing
Hate to do this, but this also reminds me of Dirty Bomb where people started to vote me off the server, because I refuse to go into a heavy combat area with one of the squishy non-combat medics, to try and revive 1 maybe 2 players. With a ~75% death rate for me and ~25% survival rate for them, if I were to do that. The thing is, I could do it and if I was very lucky survive, but that risk is too damn great. Those players were simply out of position, pushing way too far into enemy territory.
FYI "Sparks" is my fav reviver medic she isn't supposed to die, she is the one that keeps the team alive, has the highest mobility, while also the lowest health. So sacrificing two players, who were behind enemy lines, while keeping the rest alive during an enemy push to keep bodies on the objective, that is a good tactic.
Even with me at the top of the scoreboard with support and even kills using my weak ass SMG/pistol, basically carrying the team... YET, I still got booted of the server, because they apparently didn't see it like that.
I'd say, "communicate, adapt and react" instead of "rage, judge and kick"
I hate this justification. First, sitting in the vent guarantees that you never improve (and he hasn't). Second, engaging a skull on your rt is hardly engaging it "on it's own territory"; try sneaking up on it. Third, mofo is essentially refusing to do 90% of the things a marine is supposed to do during the game (instead opting to camp in a corner or vent). It's comparable to playing basketball and refusing to ever take the ball (because you are sure you'll fumble it). This is a team game, and you are refusing to even try to do you part. Of course, it's also a public game with strangers, and you are free to play pretty much how you like (and shouldn't be kicked for poor play). But you don't have a right to be free from criticism for your performance.
I for one always play quite differently from other people, not using the "set in stone" tactics, which also tends to be thorn in the side of the other team as it's hard to anticipate WTF I'm up to, but it doesn't always work out. How I play is usually also high risk/high reward. Although NS2 is less open to this, it is still how I used to play and quite successful at times, dealing either huge blows to the enemy or getting important behind the scenes information about the enemy or in a worst case scenario, losing my stuff/lifeform. Maybe Mofo1 is kinda similar in that aspect, I mean if his choices are aiding the team in his way, that's still good right...
But as I said, I cannot comment on that and also don't feel Mofo1 is supposed to be on trial here, Just saying I can see his point of view as well as yours, but sometimes you've gotta let someone do their own thing... Even if NS2 is more of a one trick pony, alternative tactics can surprise you from time to time and it keeps the game fresh
https://www.tacticalgamer.com/forum/action/natural-selection/natural-selection-general-discussion/1798770-thank-you-thank-you-thank-you?p=1798771#post1798771
And in reality it was a bad example as Veil is one of my worst maps by far. I should've used Refinery.
@Hobbes I only remember ever actually naming one person as toxic since naming and shaming is forbidden. (and it wasn't you)
All I can say is that I would've never portrayed anyone as being toxic or elitist unless I saw them acting that way in-game or on the forum. If I did name you, you must've done something at the time to warrant it.
Mofo is not the question or the answer. What he is requesting in this thread is good for everyone.
Or, maybe Mofo is the switcher the TSF deserves, but not the one it needs right now!
Let's see. In these two you call entire community toxic.
The rest just show a pattern. I did cut some quotes down to save space, which may remove some context from his words. This is already a long post and I didn't think the context was worth making it longer. You can use the quote to go see the post in its original context if you really want to.
Let the trial continue because it has no bearing on the validity of his request!
There were (and still are) a lot of 3k+ players that are total D-bags. In it just to ruin as many games as possible.
Still don't see where I named anyone. Unless they specifically
- seek out the lowest skilled servers to play on
- change their names on a daily/hourly basis in an attempt to not be recognized.
- Rage at anyone who can't get kills (especially rookies)
- Literally do nothing but spawncamp ip's/eggs to boost kdr
Then they shouldn't feel like I'm referring to them...
Kinda defeats the point of shuffling the teams though? Could always do like Rising Storm 2 and make the matches two rounds long, switching the teams and settling tie breakers on a score. Though, it looks like the solution to stop MoFo1 moaning may be beyond the talents of humankind.
MoFo the point I was making really has nothing to do with whether you were naming anyone. You were complaining about a segment of the ns2 population (the "elitist douchebags") that behaves in a certain way - they criticize you for your playstyle, and try to kick you. I've seen you make this same complaint again and again over the years. While I agree that kicking you for playing poorly isn't justified, I also think that the criticism is pretty reasonable and to be expected - and hardly shows that critic is a toxic asshole. You don't have a right to play this competitive team game like an idiot and remain immune from criticism.
Essentially I'm tired of people like you complaining about this community, because honestly it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
You keep trying to make it seem like all my complaints are due to people harassing me alone. Making it out like I'm some toxic jerk of a player who trolls all the time then wonders why they get kicked.
That is simply not the case. As I've said before the vast majority of the toxicity I've seen in my years on NS2 hasn't even been directed at me.
Honestly it seems like you took personal offense to the accusations I made, which you shouldn't have unless you were doing the very things I was complaining about.
Honestly I'm just tired of your nonsense.
What happens during the scenario where a new player wants to swap teams and a 4K player swaps with them? Situations like that would be more than common, I feel. Obviously not as drastic as that, most of the time. But they’d still occur, more likely in the 2k range I imagine.
Do we limit it to only like hive skill players swapping? What do we do about that.
I’m also not quite sure how it would work now with full teams and the way the readyroom/spectator limits work. I believe it would glitch out. But I’m sure that’s something that could be fixed.
This is quite literally your modus operandi. So much so that you had to change your steam name just so people wouldn’t recognize you and immediately pass judgement on anything you say without reading it, Joe Cool. (removed incorrect information about banning, I guess I saw a different name all that time ago. Rest of my point still stands)