Subnautica BZ - Seatruck fix proposals
SSuke
USA Join Date: 2019-07-30 Member: 254013Members
USA Join Date: 2019-07-30 Member: 254013Members
As quoted by /u/Ishantil:
Let's take a look at 4 big problems with Seatrucks and potential solutions for each of them. I've combined Seatruck issues discussed in multiple threads:
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155902/proposed-seatruck-changes#latest
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155546/customizable-empty-module-for-the-seatruck#latest
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155656/sea-truck-upgrades-and-modules#latest
https://www.reddit.com/r/Subnautica_Below_Zero/comments/cjn0ho/my_proposed_seatruck_changes/
1) Each component of the Seatruck has its own health bar. Makes it very difficult to repair parts of it.
- Suggested fix: Health should be shared among Seatruck modules. Repairing any component of the seatruck should repair all of it.
2) Entering exiting the Seatruck and seat is annoying.
- Suggested fix: Allow for differences between short-pressing (exit seat) and long-pressing 'E' (exit vehicle)
3) The Seatruck is incredibly slow, even without any attached modules. It's not as fun or zippy to drive as the seamoth.
- Suggested fix: Increase the max speed of the Seatruck to match the Seamoth's speed
- Alternatively, increase the # of upgrade modules from 4 to 6 and allow for engine speed upgrade modules to stack.
4) Lack of storage compared to every other vehicle. With more modules, the Seatruck becomes tedious to go from end to end. There's a ton of wasted empty space in the Seatruck modules.
- This is #1 complaint for the Seatruck. Robin can store more items on her body, and as far as I know, she's not fatter than the storage module.
- Allow for a small 4x6 storage cabinet in the main Seatruck cabin.
- Double the storage in the storage module.
- Another option is to allow players to build in select areas in the empty space on existing modules. For example, if you remove the picture frame in the Sleeper modules, users would be able to build a fabricator, storage cabinet, and trash can there.
Seatruck feels like it doesn't do anything well. It's not fun to zip around with and explore [compared to the Seamoth], and it doesn't have the 'mobile submarine base' feel of the Cyclops
Let's take a look at 4 big problems with Seatrucks and potential solutions for each of them. I've combined Seatruck issues discussed in multiple threads:
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155902/proposed-seatruck-changes#latest
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155546/customizable-empty-module-for-the-seatruck#latest
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155656/sea-truck-upgrades-and-modules#latest
https://www.reddit.com/r/Subnautica_Below_Zero/comments/cjn0ho/my_proposed_seatruck_changes/
1) Each component of the Seatruck has its own health bar. Makes it very difficult to repair parts of it.
- Suggested fix: Health should be shared among Seatruck modules. Repairing any component of the seatruck should repair all of it.
2) Entering exiting the Seatruck and seat is annoying.
- Suggested fix: Allow for differences between short-pressing (exit seat) and long-pressing 'E' (exit vehicle)
3) The Seatruck is incredibly slow, even without any attached modules. It's not as fun or zippy to drive as the seamoth.
- Suggested fix: Increase the max speed of the Seatruck to match the Seamoth's speed
- Alternatively, increase the # of upgrade modules from 4 to 6 and allow for engine speed upgrade modules to stack.
4) Lack of storage compared to every other vehicle. With more modules, the Seatruck becomes tedious to go from end to end. There's a ton of wasted empty space in the Seatruck modules.
- This is #1 complaint for the Seatruck. Robin can store more items on her body, and as far as I know, she's not fatter than the storage module.
- Allow for a small 4x6 storage cabinet in the main Seatruck cabin.
- Double the storage in the storage module.
- Another option is to allow players to build in select areas in the empty space on existing modules. For example, if you remove the picture frame in the Sleeper modules, users would be able to build a fabricator, storage cabinet, and trash can there.
Comments
2) Disagreed. Seatruck is NOT the Seamoth, its a habitat, lab. Testing it and find needed that kind of option 20% of times. Another 20% find it wrong, bad a nd dangerous if i occasionly exit vehicle when i just needed tostand up from chair and repair some rear modules and get away quickly.
3) Disagreed. Partially changed last update. Speed inceased. Anyway, Seatruck is a truck, it is slow. I find that devs design map that way you can use caverns, caves, arks, tunnels like the "roads" for you track. Little sneaky, takes more time, but hey - for me it works great, new mechanics. Just make some polish here an it will be brilliant.
4) Agreed. Not much space compared to the size of module.
+5) If we have separate production module that holds ONLY constructor, PLEASE make it happen to connect it with storage module (and aquarium too!). It goddamn crazy to check boxes every time i need to create FirstAid! (Where is it?! Where i put that syntheti... Gosh, i forgot it on the base!!! Right... How many titanium ore i have - lets look another time, all boxes. Again!)
It is not stated that it doesn't stack (like the depth module).
So my assumption is that the Horsepower Module stacks.
If so it's stats need to be tinkered with as it doesn't bring a fully ladened Seatruck back up to her top speed or ability to accelerate.
Driving the cabin by itself - OOOH Bruvva!!
The seamoth was fast, but her storage was abysmal.
So it's a question of HOW you'd like the Horsepower module to work.
(I believe the balance passes are coming later on down the line when the majority of assets and content are added, so it gets tweaked at the end, not with every update.)
You got curves.
Top speed
Acceleration / deceleration
And mass. (number of carriages).
Currently, each Compartment brings the top speed down, the acceleration to static. Aka 0-top speed is like 2 seconds regardless of "loadout".
My suggestion is that:
The top speed does decrease per carriage but in smaller steps.
However it's the time it takes to acceleration to reach that top speed which is hit hard.
So each Horsepower "Module" brings the top speed back up but for a set amount of weight.
but also the acceleration to reach that top speed is boosted-
i.e. Each Horsepower Module, negate the effect of the extra mass the truck is pulling.
(And they give a nice revving sound effect)
Then it's a balance thing.
Does the Horsepower module negate 2 carriages or 3 carriages?
Aquarium/storage/fabricator is clearly the winning combo right now to explore and fix stuff on the go. So 3 sound good.
As for the sleeper truck (why does the player need to sleep, can we heal?)
the Teleportation carriage or the requirement to have the Prawnsuit tagged on - has yet to be realised in the games full version.
I've got one of each, (okay 2 storage carriages, as one barely covers food/health/water/equipment) and even with 4 Horsepower modules, it's still slow going, As that's 7 carriages AND the prawnSuit it'self, but thats far better than being without.
Energy
Power Burns most when Accelerating, not coasting.
Recharge from Power-transmitters
Breaks the need for the moonpool and/or keeps Cabins powered up even when the Cab is not attached.
Controls
Looking around / set speed vs Mouse look.
The seamoth, seatruck(cab) and prawnsuit controls are directly steered by the player as those vehicles are so nimble, you look left with your standard controls, the whole vehicle looks there. You push forward on your controller and the vehicle moves forward.
The cyclops allowed us to set the speed, and look/walk around, as it was so cumbersome.
The seatruck starts as seamoth.
But as the truck expands in size, it's direct steer ability becomes a hazard. You want to quickly look left and right, or getting up to go make a fish-sandwich, whilst hauling somewhere.
Using Elite Dangerous as an example. Forwards/backwards throttles up and down. So holding down the Forward button move the throttle to the top-speed position. Tapping back, move the throttle to zero, (decelerating and burning energy).
Hitting the reverse does the same thing. It slows you down until you stopped.
Throttling back again puts you into reverse.
You can give the player a bit of look spring dead-zone, (like riding a bike).
You can look a little bit left and right from the center point, and the vehicle doesn't react, but as soon as your head hits a certain angle from centre, the neck starts twisting the shoulders and arms and suddenly you have turned your bike unconsciously in the direction you wanted to look at.
Seatruck vitals persistency.
Solution 1 && bug-fix
HUD UI Module status and Energy Status are present when operating the vehicle. Keep this persistence similar to entering/exit bases.
The Logic Event to activate the UI just needs to tweak and test, which needed to be debugged anyway.
There is a bug when the player rearranges the cabins have been and re-attaches the Cab.
So the state of operating the SeaTruck (without cabins), swaps out with Seatruck (with cabins). But the updated the in/out flags get confuzzled.
So the "enter-seatruck message and animations" trigger when trying to exit after docking the Cab to the Carriages and then getting up and walking around.
So you got to click to enter, so then you can click to leave.
So this gets iffy in multiple ways, so I've done some puesado-code in the spoiler section.
Case 1) Show the UI when in unpowered single Cabin
Case 2) Show the UI of the combined unpowered Carriages even when the "cab" is not attached.
Case 3) Show the UI of the combined Cabin when the "Cab" is attached.
Solution 2
one could have screens and meters in the "Modules/Carriages" themselves, perhaps a 2 bar little panel in the "front-doorways" which gives a [hit box] for repair maybe.
Unless gameplay is designed for repair to be done externally.
Solution 3)
The area could also be used for a quick-release latch.
The problem being with the later two solutions might lead to more real-estate needed in the models themselves.
Any dimensional changes in the doorway as a result of too large a model change will compound - multiplying the length of the sea-trucks length depending on how many modules (with the new doorway design).
Since the seatruck can be in multiple components and multiple states. So you can either have multiple seatruck objects and modules connected to different sea-truck objects
That gets hard to debug, fast.
(Indulge my by burnt-out programmer's brain which generally gets anxiety looking at code, to do some logic exercises whilst it feels good for a change)
The best way (I think) is to go after player action and build such a container list on the fly and build the structure "every time" you interact with a cabin via entering or grabbing a hold of the Cabin.
This belongs to the player, (not the game).
The Container object is then discarded when you let go/exit. (okay you can make a backup copy somewhere else).
When the player "Enters" or even takes a hold (externally) of a single Cabin (say the aquarium) - we instantiate "Seatruck-Manager" Object - a simple container.
5 Values.
int EntityID
Int Energy() {fetch from cabin[0]}
int Health() {fetch from cabin[0] (or lowest Cabin?)}
Array i]Cabin[/i
int PilotingState [NONE | AFK | MANUAL | POWERED) (the player is piloting the Seatruck cabins (s) manually or is Piloting the vehicle from inside. The object ceases to exist on exit, so the player is only ever Away from Keyboard so piloting the vehicle and is, therefore, walking around.
I dropped in a NONE in case of try-catch scenarios that may require it.
function AttachCabin (int CabinID) { the structure can only be piloted from the cabin in position 0.
So far the player on the "outside" detaches themselves automatically, so the player now No longer has a seatruck manager attached to them.
So they much interact again, thus creating a new seatruck Manager so attachment ripple forwards to the cabins ahead or backwards if the Cab is "back onto" a Cabin)}
function DetachCabin(){quick release button pressed or
PilotingState = MANUAL
the player has grabbed a module in a structure so only the Forward(cabin) needs its aft cabin pointer nulled, and the current cabin needs its forward pointer nulled.
PilotingState = AFK
the player is walking around the seatruck and hit the quick-release button.
Only the
aft Cabin pointer needs its forward pointer nulled, and the current cabin (the cab) needs aft pointer nulled.
Then run a refresh of the Player owner SeatruckManager array which rebuilds the structure from the interaction point Cabin[0] and checks the forward then after pointers, to create the structure.
Each individual Cabin Object naturally has
Int ID
Int health
Int energy
Cabin* Forward
Cabin* Aft
internal function attachForward(int cabin = null) { set thefoward cabin to cabin-id or set to null (detatching it) }
internal function attachAft (int cabin = null) { set the to the aft to cabin-id or set to null (detatching it) }
Junior developers will use previous and next to keep things abstract which is good coding practice as they do not describe specifics that could make the objects re-use harder in the future.
Be that as it may, orientation, in this case, is of vital importance for this specific object and developers hopping in and out can rest easy knowing instantly which way things are.
On instantiating the SeatruckConfiguration Object (enter/piloting) we then do a trawl of all the cabin forwards of the cabin you entered.
Shunting the start cabin (aquarium) down the list, as next cabin "forward" is then cabin unshifts Cabin[0].
When we reach the most forward Cabin, we start populating the rest of the Cabin[] array from the first entered module (in our case) aquarium which will always be in the aft-most position so far and ergo the array-length (-1).
We then work aft, building out the truck structure with pushing the new aft cabin to the Cabin[] array.
When that is done
We now know everything we need to know.
1) Is the player inside/outside/piloting, regardless of the circumstances of how we entered the truck.
2) The structure of the whole vehicle and each of the health cabins in sequence.
3) We can quick reference Cabin[0] with is the Cab with power or just a standard cabin without).
Any interaction, getting up, connecting, leaving, etc etc, we just refresh the list.
In the original game, the cyclops was a really great way to get down to the lowest depths in the game. Remember, you didn't know what was down there the first time you played. Having moved through some of the mid-depth areas, scarcity of materials was very apparent. Once you had the Cyclops, the obvious solution was to stock up on everything in case there was no way to get what you needed. You could bring enough resources to build a base or just use the cyclops as a base.
This scenario never really happens in Sub Zero. There are so many resources everywhere, its much easier to just build a base. Especially since the Seatruck is stuck at 150m for much of the game (progression and end game content comes quickly after getting a vehicle console). By the time you can bring the Seatruck down deep, you do't really need it anymore.
It can be useful at the very beginning to have a storage module and fabricator but once you have some bases in strategic places, it just isn't that great.
Some of the solutions proposed above would help:
Above all... give us reasons to use the thing! Make specific missions/quests where a module and its upgrades would be necessary to complete it, if not extremely helpful.
So I'd rather prefer customizable compartments.
Overall, the SeaTrain (a truck usually has only one trailer) wasn't the greatest idea. If this is a reference concept for a SeaMoth:
These could be reference concepts for a SeaTruck:
In other words, just a bit more clunky version of a SeaMoth. This one could have had more upgrades that focus on the aspect of 'heavy duty' rather than 'speed' and 'exploration'. So it could have had a much higher storage capacity, the scanner capabilities of a scanner room (or the only craft with a sonar), the 3D minimap of a SeaGlide, a higher max. depth and maybe other upgrages like grav mines, etc.
Alternatively, the devs could have started with a bigger hull.
Personally, I would have loved this concept a lot, especially if the two glass domes would have been customizable. It would have been the Micro-Cyclops I always dreamed of.
But I guess the devs wanted to go more in the direction of a moveable base and thought that movable I-compartments would be the obvious starting point...
This might have worked if such a craft would allow me to drag a single I-compartment along and let me reattach it to a base (on short distances). This way, I wouldn't be forced to deconstruct my base every time I want to slightly change the layout or relocate it a bit.
Now compare it with what we've got. The current one is so small, it even looks silly when docked (not to mention the fact that it could just dock to a base like it docks to other modules).
Multiple options per module was what I assumed would be understood, just as you have multiple options for the prawn suit. So let's say we're putting a Sleeping Module on our sea bus. You have only a few slots where you can put things in (typically four slots are available, like in the Scanner Room, the SeaMoth, the SeaTruck... but for these upgrade panels the devs might want to limit them to two). In the suggestions I listed above--and I'm sure devs and playtesters can come up with more and with better ones--you can choose between a solar panel upgrade, a perimeter defense upgrade, a thruster upgrade, a vending machine upgrade (unique to the Sleeper Module), a power-conserving upgrade (though in retrospect this does kind of the same thing as the solar panel upgrade). If you have just two slots, you've got choices to make: do you want it to produce food, be maneuverable, be power-efficient, or be defensible? (Or other options, by no means should we limit this to whatever ideas I alone can come up with)
What I meant is that a single unique upgrade per type of module would be feel like a must have (like the thruster upgrade for the PRAWN). Upgrades in general tend to feel like hidden costs (at least for me). Noone forces you to install an armor upgrade, but to keep the slot empty feels stupid as well. So I ended up adding a solar mod or an armor upgrade, but it didn't feel like fun either. Here, it would have helped if I would have actually built the upgrade rather than putting random sticks into slots.
Another example to get across what I mean would be the scanner room: Instead of building upgrades, I'd rather want to be forced to build remote antennas in order to increase the range.
And I'm not sure if I would like to take care of every module. Sure, it would be a way to bypass true customization by implementing 'fix' suggestion. The same way, every base compartment could have it's own upgrade module (for armor or energy preservation upgrades).
I'm not saying the idea is bad. It might work really well, if you only have one or two SeaTruck trailers at once and if the mods give me a new game experience (similar to the PRAWN arms).
Now that you put the Scanner Room in that context, that makes perfect sense, and now I prefer that idea to the way the Scanner Room currently operates. We should have to venture, to risk, to extend its range--I think that would make the game more fun.
Prawn arms are a great example of the idea I'm after. You have only two arms, but multiple upgrades possible, and so you have to make a choice based on what you prefer. Ultimately the module upgrades I'm suggesting were aimed in that direction: more choices possible than you can fit, so you choose the ones that match your play style. Hopefully, to solve the problem of the Seatruck mentioned above: either its too slow or its just not as useful as a Cyclops. Being not useful enough that it feels like you are dragging it around with you can be resolved by fitting more tools and such in each compartment; or on the other hand, stripping it down so that it's more maneuverable. Either way, it's ultimately the question of customizability, which is the principle at work behind the whole thing anyway, what with its five or six modules already available to us.
Dump the whole idea and just give me a sea moth that can tow a prawn suit.
Why fix what wasn’t broken?
If you want a portable base then just give us a self-powered common room that requires power cells and comes equipped with a bed, fabricator, and a storage locker. I personally would like this better than the life pod as you could choose where to set up a temporary camp and not have a useless relic later on in the game.
The idea of a portable camp is much better than a super-sub like the truck.
The Cyclops was fun but not really needed in the small amount of deep water we have in Below Zero so why build a cut down version like the truck?
1. Making a hatch on a base for docking seatruck just like connecting modules. That would make transfer of items betwine storrage and base much easyer.
2. Give it more storage
3. Make it faster
4. Give fabricator module separate power source so you can leave your modules as a temp.base and use comand module as a runabaut
5. More storage!
P.S. first time i used it, i tried to connect modules and they broke... tey are too fragile, wheeey too fragile while connecting
I agree that something that is meant to haul additional modules should be larger. It's hard to believe that the dinky main module could haul much of anything, much less several modules that are larger and heavier than it is. I realize that the main module is meant to slip into tiny tunnels. However, it doesn't seem capable of pulling a prawn suit, let alone anything else. As well, each module should have storage, including the main cab. There is too much unused space in the modules. From the perspective of a workhorse type vehicle, the Seatruck should be utilizing every inch of space that is available.
The main module should have a way to access vehicle upgrades from inside the cab, there's room to do so over the decoupling switch.
It should be possible to repair the main module from inside even when there are no other modules attached.
Each module should have a lever that can quickly detach the modules that are trailing behind it. Disconnecting everything at once, then having to reconnect the essential module that I always keep directly behind the main is a real inconvenience. It could even be possible to manage decouplings from the HUD. Click on the first module that the player wants to disconnect and it's done.
Two power cells don't seem to be nearly enough power for what the Seatruck is meant to do. Each module should require its own power cell. At the very least, the fabrication module should require one. If additional power cells aren't installed, the truck could still run but it would be much slower and deplete its main power cells more quickly. In addition (but kind of cheaty), single Seatruck modules could serve as permanent and strategic oxygen reserves without the need to build a room.
Instead of (or in addition to) an aquarium module, I would like to have the ability to bring planters on board. I find that Leafy Fruit Trees bear often enough to make even two planters very helpful.
Finally, it's strange that when the Prawn suit is docked, the rearview is also blocked. In a universe where mankind has been colonizing and exploring the outer reaches of space, someone should have thought of putting a camera on the prawn suit that activates when it's docked on the truck.
Quality of life/roleplay suggestions:
I would appreciate it if more compartments had reinforced moonroofs like the sleeper compartment. It's not essential, but it would be nice. Barring that, there should be exterior cameras as there are on the Cyclops. In the meantime, I keep my sleeper module directly behind the main so that I can see what is directly above my cab before I exit. ( I don't care for the aquarium module so I usually leave that behind).
Instead of a picture frame in the sleeper module, I would have appreciated a clock with an alarm.
I would like to be able to sit in the main module without automatically starting the engine. Sometimes, I need to wait but I don't want to sleep. Being able to sit in silence would be great. I don't care for the sound of the Seatruck. I sincerely hope that it will be changed at some point.
It would be awesome to have a level indicator on the HUD as they have in real-life RVs. It's annoying to have to go through the sit/stand animations in order to adjust the truck before I bed down somewhere safe for the night.
On a completely unrelated side note: I wish that the compass upgrade came with a clock. I shouldn't have to run to the control room in order to see what time it is. Don't Alterra grunts have schedules to keep, why is the company so averse to clocks? They should be everywhere.
However, it's the general balance of its movement, speed and storage.
For the storage just add 1 square in each direction to the big 2 storage lockers on the wall, so instead of a 4x6 it's a 5x7) and I think everyone will be happy.
The Aquarium is cool, but as a food storage medium (due to the lack of other methods of generating water) gets tiresome because it just hauls around 5-6 bladderfish and had 2-3 Artic peeps. But even so I fill up one storage module with 12 water, 8 medikits, and 8 cured peepers, and all my tools (thank you for making the sea-glide a 2x2)
My other complaint is that the movement is 1:1 I can't look (like I can in the Sea-prawn and cyclops) before the vessel starts to turns
I had this complaint about the seamoth, but it when it comes to fast manoeuvrable ships, I guess more people are happy with 1:1 mouse movements.
So the "cab" understandably has this functionality.
But it gets irritating fast with regards to slow-movement and turns speeds with the long load.
And it gets even weirder when the center the turn, is the centre of the vessel and not the cab.
As for upgrades, the Booster module is good.
The horsepower upgrade is the right idea, but it needs to stack
as people have suggested having modules being self-powered would be handy.
Powered Mobile Base
In previous builds there was a "Charging" platform, it was some discarded work in progress for the sea-truck to recharge.
I hoped the idea would be evolved to keeping the modules powered when the "cab" is not attached.
Eloquent solution - The Thruster Module.
Introducing a Simple "linking" module, effectively a hollow ring with hatches on top AND bottom for access.
It has booster on each corner and an external port for 1 power cell.
recipe: (I'm guessing)
1 Advanced Wiring Kit.
1 Reinforced titanium ingot.
2 Diamond.
2 Sulfur.
They provide additional thrust and also the power to the modules around them, and you can just keep adding them.
However, there *is* a top speed to the seatruck due to water resistance and water dynamics. So the more you thrust, into the water past the optimal speed the more damage to the cab.
The "centre" of the sea-truck turning point correlates and alters from where "power" is from the thrusters.
So a cab, with 5 modules, it does all the turning.
A cab with 5 modules, and a Thruster module at the back. then the turning point is in the middle.
Stack 3 thruster modules at the back, "they" become the turning point. (just to confuse and spice everything up, and make more work for the already too busy Dev's.
Suggestion for the Boost mechanic - just my own personal preference
I'm an Elite Dangerous player and my reflex is hit boost and then the lateral thrusters in sea-truck with disastrous consequences
When you hit boost in Elite, the power plant provides the boost to the "engines" which in turn generating more thrust to the thrusters which are distributed around the vessel.
So hitting boost "obviously" boosts forwards (big engines at the back).
But any movement/direction input given to the craft whilst the "boost" is in action.
They draw the thrust away from the main engine and apply it to the specific directional thrusters.
So strafing (lateral motions) up-down-sideways all get a boost.
So as I'm climbing out of a ravine, (instinctively from ED), I hit boost,
and hold down space to climb quicker "UP", when I need to tilting my seatruck up, which if the truck is pulling several carriages, that's not exactly a fast turn rate.
Similarly, if I realised I'm going to boost into something ahead of me, I apply "reverse" thrust, which in Elite would also be given the "boost" as well (but due to ship design, the reverse thrusters tend to be weaker than the main thrusters.
So you could course correct accidental boosts.
Instead, I just keep ploughing the cab into things