Max_map_planes

Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
in Mapping Forum
<div class="IPBDescription">Need tips to get rid of it.</div> I somehow reached max map planes on andromeda I do not know how. The geometry is about 80 percent done, I still have to add one more hive location and a few small rooms, but I don't know how to get rid of this max_map_planes compile error. I know it means the map has too many brushes, i.e. its too complex, but how do I make it less complex without sacrificing what I've built so far. Tips from people who have dealt with this before, if possible.
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Any why, upon posting, was it moved to the 2nd page?
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  • humb1edhumb1ed Join Date: 2002-10-06 Member: 1446Members
    just add -sparse to your rad command line or you can use -chop 128.

    If you add -sparse you will never get the error but the map will take longer to compile, if you add -chop 128 (or 96 depending on how close you are to the limit) you still need to make sure your patches stay under 64k or you will get the error again. Also, making your chop value higher makes the lighting more jagged, like the staircase effect, but this can be fixed for nicer compiles by adding -extra to the command line.
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  • humb1edhumb1ed Join Date: 2002-10-06 Member: 1446Members
    Oh, and about your thread being moved to the second page it looks as if someone changed the clock on the forums, your thread is said to have been posted on the 17th at 6pm or so, but the threads on the first page, even though they were posted even earlier are said to have been posted on the 18th at 6'ish in the morning.
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Humb: Those are rad command line options, this is a csg error.
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Does Null texture elimate the plane it is placed on, for calculating max planes?
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  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    The faces on the outside of your map count towards the planes total, I suggest you go around and line up as many of them as you can.
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  • humb1edhumb1ed Join Date: 2002-10-06 Member: 1446Members
    edited December 2002
    ahh I apologize, I was thinking of max_map_patches not planes. I ALWAYS get them mixed up...
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    I'm not totally sure i understand the whole point, I mean I think i do... if I have squares connected on 1 side to form 1 brush, but its not exactly lined up, does that create a new plane?
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Also, any way I can find out how many planes over the limit I am? So I know how many I need to eliminate.
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  • humb1edhumb1ed Join Date: 2002-10-06 Member: 1446Members
    edited December 2002
    Okay then, this thread should certainly interest you.
    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=10676&hl=' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...f=4&t=10676&hl=</a>

    Here are a few excerpts, about your problem, since I had the same.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That crash can happen if you've run over the planes limit. The only way to know for sure is to start deleting chunks of your map and trying to re-compile. As soon as the compile can make its way past the CSG step successfully, add -chart to CSG so that you can see how your planes usage is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Add "-chart" to hlcsg when your map barely compiles and see if anything is nearly full (90%+). If so, try to reduce that number. If you don't know how to, ask in this forum, or Valve-ERC.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Scaling textures won't affect the number of planes in your map at all. Don't confuse w-polys with planes. They are very different things.

    By the way, adding -chart to CSG won't help you see what's wrong if CSG performs an illegal op, and even if it doesn't, I've noticed that if you're too far over the plane limit and an illegal op doesn't happen, the planes usage is shown as zero. If this happens, you'll know you gone way over the limit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Planes are what you manipulate in the editor, not what is shown in game. Every face of every brush counts as a plane, whether it is visible, or forms the exterior of your brushwork facing the void. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If the face simply exists it will add to the plane count. The thing to do here is clean up your brushwork. If you ever used two brushes where one would suffice, switch it up. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Is it possible to make an arched doorway (say 5+ planes directly facing down from the arch) with 1 brush using vertices or not, Ive received conflicting reports on this (I cant make it work, personally).
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  • tommy14tommy14 Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8839Members
    see <a href='http://members.telocity.com/pdebaan/errors.htm#numplanes' target='_blank'>error list : ReadSurfs (line 99416): 32189 > g_numplanes or max_map_planes</a>

    besides what is listed there, another common cause for noobs is to skybox in their level. but as an NS mapper you are probably beyond that stage, right?
    <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Heh, before i ever began mapping I knew better than to Skybox my level.
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    I removed the latest room I added (hive area - Chapel) and it compiled with 89 percent plane usage. That chapel has quite a few stained glass windows with arched tops, I imagine its taking up a lot of planes, but 3000+? Quite a lot. Any tips to get it lower short of removing the whole area?
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  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited December 2002
    Here's a scrteenshot of the outside of one of my maps (worldcraft 3D view). If I needed to reduce the plane count on that map I could make all those external faces line up and save a hell of a lot of planes.
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  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited December 2002
    - doh! -
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Angel I've already been doing that on andromeda, the lines from most rooms come together perfectly and don't leave any excess planes. There are a couple places where 1 brush could do the work of 2, but thats only going to free up between 4-8 planes per fix right? We're talking 32,000 planes total, thats not a whole lot.
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Ok Im DEFINITLY missing something, I've been messing up with words or something, to me it looks like you have 6 or so planes facing us in that picture.
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  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited December 2002
    Please note that the front of this arch is made of 7 faces (14 polys), but they all exist on the same plane.
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Nevermind I have been getting it right. I didnt see a screenshot on the first one. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Does vertexing wall connections together (the way most tutorials recommend) with pointed corners work to reduce plane count? I dont think it does but I need to make sure.
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Ooo I just trimmed a few very minor details and csg now runs correctly again. Plane count is at 99.4 percent usage. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I doubt mitering the corners (I think that's the proper term) effects planes substantialy. Trying to find a plain english description of what a plane is...

    <a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=plane' target='_blank'>Dictionary definition</a>, in this case we are refering to a the mathematical or geometric defintion of a plane.

    A plane is a 2 dimensional slice through 3 dimensional space.

    Back to mapping...


    Do you have any rocky surfaces, these cause a hell of a lot of planes i'm told.
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Erm, no rocks. I have a small subway section with a working train, a computer room with a computer control room to monitor parts of the level with cameras, I have a chapel with stained glass windows and a alter which is a hive location, I have a hanger which has 4 landing pads and is fairly large open area but it has very few details other than that, I have the atrium of course which has that middle circle section with matching glass at the top. I don't know what could be causing it. I'll send you the map or rmf if you like so you can check it out.
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  • MuntyMunty Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2972Members, Constellation
    edited December 2002
    When you say stained glass, do you mean 1 whole colour, or glass built into designs.
    If youve made glass designs you could always try to make the designs themselves into a texture...
    Not sure if thats what your asking but what the heck.
    -edit-
    Also if you have a whole lot of windows next to each other you could just stretch the glass through the walls... I THINK that would reduce some planes.
    And i think ever surface of every brush is a plane. I dont think point entitys count towards planes though...
    So all i can say is strech man STRETCH <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Stained glass texture on a regular window panel instead of a glass texture. (They are texlights, havent been able to test the look yet tho because of planes)
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  • MuntyMunty Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2972Members, Constellation
    edited December 2002
    Oh yeah, you cant do any concave vertex manipulation otherwise youll create an invalid solid. at least i think concave is the correct word... let me look it up and get back to ya... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
    So while you can do the outsides of arches with it,insides of arches are a big nono for a solid.
    -edit-
    Just chcked witha friend, it is concave thats a big no no in a single solid.
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    I totally did not get that last post Munty. Anyone care to explain it? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • MuntyMunty Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2972Members, Constellation
    erm... think a C shape made out of a solid.
    While you can make the outside of it, the inside of the C shape would make your solid an invalid shape.
    And when i say solid i mean brush... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
    thats about as well as i can explain it im afraid. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Tell me how you plan to make a C shape out of a single brush. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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