Onos Counter?
Pi_Gi
Join Date: 2002-03-16 Member: 324Members
Join Date: 2002-03-16 Member: 324Members
Is there really one?
I mean short of being extremely lucky, having tons of marines in base with HA and enough weapons to blow up Mt. St. Helen again... and having a turret every 3 feet, and mines everywhere....
I know a single marine shouldn't be able to take down an onos, but I think it's ridiculous that sometimes you need 6 marines, 4 turrets, 12 mines, and enough ammo to turn anything into swiss cheese. <b>I know I'm exaggerating a bit. But I'm seriously trying to stir up some real intelligent discussion about this.</b> Becuz the game as I see it now, if the aliens get 3 hives, they can pound the marines back into the base and then it becomes a long siege war. This means games are usually over in 5 or 90 minutes, hardly something in between. As much as I enjoy the game, I hate having the skulk rush as a prevailing tactic, or the fade siege work all the time. I want more variety. I want new tactics. Thus, I ask.... Is there really an effective counter to the Onos?
I mean short of being extremely lucky, having tons of marines in base with HA and enough weapons to blow up Mt. St. Helen again... and having a turret every 3 feet, and mines everywhere....
I know a single marine shouldn't be able to take down an onos, but I think it's ridiculous that sometimes you need 6 marines, 4 turrets, 12 mines, and enough ammo to turn anything into swiss cheese. <b>I know I'm exaggerating a bit. But I'm seriously trying to stir up some real intelligent discussion about this.</b> Becuz the game as I see it now, if the aliens get 3 hives, they can pound the marines back into the base and then it becomes a long siege war. This means games are usually over in 5 or 90 minutes, hardly something in between. As much as I enjoy the game, I hate having the skulk rush as a prevailing tactic, or the fade siege work all the time. I want more variety. I want new tactics. Thus, I ask.... Is there really an effective counter to the Onos?
Comments
I however, don't think you'll see your wish of wanting more variety anytime soon.
As many people have said before "If it works, why change?"
Well, because it gets damn boring after a while.
Bah - anyway, best thing I can tell you to do is try some new strategies while playing as the commander - also, try different buildings with the gorge.
I don't think it's possible to start any kind of strategy revolution or anything .. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for countering the best way is to prevent them altogether, do your job, capture the hives . . .
Prosp
Plus no need to worry really i only see 1 onos per 10 games. Unfortunatly the game usually ends after fades come ....
it's hilarious
And once the third hive is found, it IS over. Just like when Marines secure two hives. No new tactics will ever come from this game.
The onos is more or less adapted specifically to be a live battering ram, whether the target be a structure or a meatsickle. Thanks to this, it only makes sense that the part of an onos least vulnerable to damage is its high-strength "helmet" of bone or whatever its cranium is protected with.
The rest of the body should just be more vulnerable. Playtest a bit and you've got an onos counter, or more specifically, an onos weak spot that encourages teamwork--have one sorry chap be bait so the rest can pound the sides/back.
Only because the public doesn't want there to be.
"If it works, why change?"
What needs to happen is marine commanders stop trying to 'hold out' and instead get all their marines in JP, Shottys and wealders and try and symltaniously weald/siege all 3 hives.
Its highly unlikley to work but as a last dich it might just work 1/1000 and its a damn sight more likley to work than building so many turrets in base that the aliens have to get onos to clear them as all this does is spend every available res for no offencive gain.
At the very least you've just given your marines a little practice in 'how to use a jetpack and shotgun' which is tricky.. hell if you've got res comming outta your ears give them JP, GL, Wealder. Get good with that combo and you can probably do serious hurt to onos.
BlueGhost
Also, can people learn to use damn charge? Almost every game that I walk into that has marines losing with onoses have the damn things pulling off multiple charges and wondering why the heck their enemies are taking so little damage. Please, just build in a really long delay into pressing charge too often to prevent n00bs from being stupid with the damn thing! It pisses me off! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Basically every marine team you go on sucks and you always get mauled by onos, therefore you think that it should be fixed. When in reality if you let the aliens get 3 hives, the comm / players did something(s) drastically wrong, and deserve to die by way of the onos.
the only game imbalance there is, are the fades. They are SLIGHTLY too powerful. Acid rocket and armor should be toned down slightly. then again, if you let the aliens get 2 (yes, when i'm a comm, the aliens NEVER get 2 hives) hives, something went drastically wrong =)
<i><b>There doesn't need to be more than 1 onos in the game</b></i>
With 3 hives, aliens have all the tools they need to destroy a marine base, I rarely go onos anyway (lerk->spore spam->I'm a jerk). I'm never happy when 6 onos' are running through a marine base, its not necessary. How about first come first serve onos for the alien team, everyone else has to wait till he dies to evolve?
This should make onos more of a privledge than it currently is (now it seems to be more of an endgame event, nothing special). Now please excuse me as I take a thourogh lashing from my alien brethren... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<i><b>There doesn't need to be more than 1 onos in the game</b></i>
With 3 hives, aliens have all the tools they need to destroy a marine base, I rarely go onos anyway (lerk->spore spam->I'm a jerk). I'm never happy when 6 onos' are running through a marine base, its not necessary. How about first come first serve onos for the alien team, everyone else has to wait till he dies to evolve?
This should make onos more of a privledge than it currently is (now it seems to be more of an endgame event, nothing special). Now please excuse me as I take a thourogh lashing from my alien brethren... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It should be a scaling number. In a game with 20 people 2 onos would be fine. Not a bad idea.
Also for fades I think their armor is fine maybe acid rocket should just do less damage to buildings (like 3/4th) That way umbra + claws would be the way to win. =)
Or something. One of the best and only counters against onos is making sure that they don't get them at all. If the aliens get 3 hives, well then, you have to move quickly, and make sure you get the third down before they can make any at all, or just a few.
Heh, yeah I usually just go fade as well. Even if I'm a big huge onos, I'm still more likely to die than if I'm a fade and I'm hurly globs of acidic death at the marines. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But the onos definately does NOT need any kind of weakness/limit/counter. As many have said, if they can get an onos, the game is OVER anyways.
I as a marine once during a game, got a jetpack from my comm(well he dropped a few...) and a shotgun, and flew around and terrorized the alien team in general. But they already had 3 hives, and our base got overrun(ns_bast, comm decided to build in vents btw, all entrances were welded anyways)... I flew over there after a while, not yet out of ammo(damn the shotty has a LOT), and pumped 'em full! I would have nailed one, hadn't he had redemption <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Ah well. I badly hurt the others, but then I fell down the lift(I think... don't remember all that good, might have been a fade or something else.) Then I asked them if I had been annoying with my stupid jetpack and shotgun(seriously, 4 or 5 onos in our base hurt badly by one single jet-jerk : )))))) ) and they sure were <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
NEVER GIVE UP!!11
DIE DAMN YOU... **obscenity**, I'm out of ammo.
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I want you to do me a favor. I want you to pretend that I've just typed up a really long sarcastic paragraph about how I love your ideas and we should nerf the whole damn alien team to hell, so that when aliens can never win and will always be weak, even with 3 hives and onos and fades attacking the marine spawn. Then I want you to immagine that after this long paragraph of agreeing with you, I type "Screw you." in <i>italics.</i> Immagine that for me. I'm too tired right now to actually <i>do</i> it.
I mean short of being extremely lucky, having tons of marines in base with HA and enough weapons to blow up Mt. St. Helen again... and having a turret every 3 feet, and mines everywhere....
I know a single marine shouldn't be able to take down an onos, but I think it's ridiculous that sometimes you need 6 marines, 4 turrets, 12 mines, and enough ammo to turn anything into swiss cheese. <b>I know I'm exaggerating a bit. But I'm seriously trying to stir up some real intelligent discussion about this.</b> Becuz the game as I see it now, if the aliens get 3 hives, they can pound the marines back into the base and then it becomes a long siege war. This means games are usually over in 5 or 90 minutes, hardly something in between. As much as I enjoy the game, I hate having the skulk rush as a prevailing tactic, or the fade siege work all the time. I want more variety. I want new tactics. Thus, I ask.... Is there really an effective counter to the Onos?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, when Kharaa get three hives the game is SUPPOSED to be over and they're SUPPOSED to win, unless the Marines act quickly enough to grab one back. Just like when Marines get two of the hives - they're SUPPOSED to win from that point on unless the Kharaa act quickly.
That is how the game is balanced.
The onos is more or less adapted specifically to be a live battering ram, whether the target be a structure or a meatsickle. Thanks to this, it only makes sense that the part of an onos least vulnerable to damage is its high-strength "helmet" of bone or whatever its cranium is protected with.
The rest of the body should just be more vulnerable. Playtest a bit and you've got an onos counter, or more specifically, an onos weak spot that encourages teamwork--have one sorry chap be bait so the rest can pound the sides/back.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this for real, or just your speculation? Are they really more vulnerable in some areas? If so that would be really useful info.
fades are alrite as they are really... coz if ur marine team can work 2gether and rush one at the same time u really shouldn't have a problem coz concentrating ur fire on one fade should do the trick really...
Edit: 5 incoming Onos however... thats just impossible if you dont have jetpack and HMG or GL and sitting on a high spot which the Onos is unable to reach, if he parasite u got urself a problem <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
The onos is more or less adapted specifically to be a live battering ram, whether the target be a structure or a meatsickle. Thanks to this, it only makes sense that the part of an onos least vulnerable to damage is its high-strength "helmet" of bone or whatever its cranium is protected with.
The rest of the body should just be more vulnerable. Playtest a bit and you've got an onos counter, or more specifically, an onos weak spot that encourages teamwork--have one sorry chap be bait so the rest can pound the sides/back.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this for real, or just your speculation? Are they really more vulnerable in some areas? If so that would be really useful info.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aaron, since I'm the one who posted the thing you quoted, I figure it's my job to answer the question about it.
To my knowledge, locational damage is not yet implemented in NS. It's kinda hard how to decide what the most vulnerable body part should be on fictional species. But it's easy to decide what should/shouldn't be most vulnerable on marines and onos.
For onos, the NS team should implement locational damage. My suggestion is just a simple one-have one less vulnerable spot (already explained in what you quoted) and the rest more vulnerable. How big of a difference it is would have to be playtested.
For marines, have it be classic locational damage similar to that of humans in other mods. This would really encourage skill. A lerk who is good enough to swoop in for a bite to the head, or a skulk good enough to wait in ambush on a cieling and drop right on top of a marine really deserves a damage bonus over the average circle-strafing and ankle biting. Once again, how big of a damage difference between body parts would have to be playtested.
Actually you are failing allready with beeing intelligent by choosing your topic to discuss. Onos are MEANT to be game enders (and as you say yourself on some maps they can still need quite long, so if at all they are not powerfull enough). Onos means that aliens captured 2 hives (while holding their starting hive) and have lots of resources. If you are looking for balance you must balance it against marines holding 2 hives and have lots of resources. And now i am asking you, what is more unfair, skulks against ha/hmg guys or ha/hmg guys against onos? Yes, even when aliens have captured all hives marines can still go ha/hmg unlike aliens with onos. And in quite a lot games they even have the resources to do so.