tbh i dont favor this tactic. You may have the **obscenity** but do you have the brains ? no good sending in a LA with a HMG easy 2 take out and ends up a waste of res basicly all skulks or even skulk does is attack them from flank or rear wot eva end isnt being coverd and kill them all i know you all seen 5 skulk kills in a row well same case. but aliens gain by marines loosing more res and remember HMG isnt really as effective on lvl 0 tech i dont personaly fear it that early in game just means more fancy dancing skills.
<!--QuoteBegin--Dead Dragon+Dec 19 2002, 10:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead Dragon @ Dec 19 2002, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. A stupidly simple counter to the marine HMG rush early on is: Dont try to ambush the marines. Avoid them, get a group of skulks around to the undefended and unturreted marine start and wreck the damn thing. By the time any marines get back, you've either taken out the CC, or are so close to doing so that the marines spend the next 10 minutes fortifying their base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've pulled off atleast 25 of these HMG rushes successfully, and this counter has never worked. The HMG rush is normally an all or nothing plan. If it fails, the marines are doomed - but that's not my point here. When ever the aliens decide to try this counter, 'simply' hitting the base real hard before the Marines have a chance to kill the hive isn't well thought out. You see, whenever they would try this, I'd drop a CC in the hive that we were killing off just incase something terrible happened to the original base. But even that is unnecessary. 3 HMGs and 1 LMG can take the hive down in probably less than 10 seconds - that gives the skulks what, 7 seconds before they waste away?
Only thing that I've read on here so far that sounds like a decent counter, would be getting 3 Sensory chambers up immediately. Let's say 3 Skulks hide on the cieling, completely cloaked until the Marines step by, and all 3 skulks drop and gnaw on the Marines legs. That sounds like a nice counter to me, anyway.
Yes, I've lead around 25 successful HMG rushes, but then I've also lead probaly that many unsuccessful rushes, as well. To be honest though, I've never lost the HMG rush because of a well coordinated alien team, or some amazing counter. More often than not, I lose because I trust clannies way too often. I figure that they're good enough to be in a clan, so they must know how to use a Heavy Machine Gun, right? Usually these games end in heated arguements about following instructions and why Coke tastes better than Pepsi.
At this time, I have only one more thing to say. I don't think I could ever do the HMG rush in a pub again. I really don't care for losing, and when I'm sitting in the command chair, my pulse races way too fast. I also hate having to sit there and watch in horror as one marine runs off in one direction, 4 others in another, and the 6th just started the game, who I mistakenly handed a HMG, and decides to jump down the hole at the marine start on ns_nothing as the rest of his team gets slaughtered. Commanding sucks in the pubs.
<b>The HMG rush is most effective.</b> As a skulk with carapace, I have no problem with LMGs and easily avoid them. The rate of fire and damage of the HMG doesn't let me even get close to a marine with half decent aim. The HMG is a scary gun!
<b>HMG also saves time</b>. If the Kharaa have gorges setting up offensives everywhere, it can really slow you down, particularly when you are trying to take these down with LMGs while fending of skulks at the same time. The HMG allows you to cut down these structures and put the gorges off from building anymore.
I posted this LONG ago. I won't tell you how it works. Unfortunatly for some of you immature commanders, It takes more than powerteching and dropping 4 HMGs to wipe out the aliens.
HMG does more than tear stuff up. In a lot of pubs, you put fear and panic into the alien team. If you see an HMG early in the game, many new players would start thinking WTF, freak out, and panic. It really changes the pace and mood of the alien team. Versus knowledgable and skilled players however, they'd be thinking an easy win since the marines have wasted a lot of rp's investing in HMGs. Attacking their undefended base is easier now since they move so much slower trying to rush your hive. Rush in, take out that advanced armory, and they have just lost 60 resources. Take out the infantry portals, and they lost 15 or 30. Follow the same path outside their base towards your first hive and you've hit the marines from behind. Then it's simply just going back to their base and taking out the CC.
Actually in pubs all the random newbies seem to go marines. The ones that go aliens are the ones that couldn’t get to marines. This tactic might work but remember in a match FF is on so you can also ice your own men with those HMG if your in a firefight in close quarters
lol last time i tried commanding on a pub server i told the team we were relocating straight away to a hive, this was on bast, andi knew they were in sewer so i sent all of them to generator.
this was 8 on 8. one skulk took out 6. a gorge one and the other lagged out into a wall while my cc was chomped.
lesson learnt? pub marines can mostly likely not shoot for **obscenity**, and have the brains of small, carniverous mammals.
<!--QuoteBegin--skulkswerenerfed+Dec 19 2002, 03:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skulkswerenerfed @ Dec 19 2002, 03:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->this is the stuff i posted, but everyone was like YOU JUST SUCK
I told you guys you were slower learners and that in a while you guys would figure it out<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i commed this tactic like a week after release on nano gridlock, worked like a charm then, still works now, sry didn't see your post b4 hmg rush=rawk
I was in that game with (UWW) ? Drew where we kicked out the first Commander for building an observatory (idiot <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) and immediately upgraded the Armory. Me and a couple other HMG's marched to Maintenace Access and demolished the hive.
There is little, save for exceptional play on the Alien side, that can counter this move <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Surely HMG rush is only going to work against un-coordinated aliens?
The problem being your HMG marines will move SLOOOWLY so they'll be even easier to pull off a multi-directional moving ambush, covering the rear with an HMG is going to be impossible (walking back with HMG hahah!).
If you lose all your marines then you've lost the HMG's and most probably the game.
I imagine it works for the same reason that any kind of rush VS aliens works, the aliens rush youre base, you toast the aliens, you respawn faster you rush to their base and toast it.
If the aliens are good they will: 1) Not all rush your base and die at the start. 2) Realize what your doing the second one of your HMG guys opens fire. 3) Coordinate a multi-directional ambush of your HMG group as soon as it leaves base. 4) Coordinate a second multi-directional ambush of your HMG group as its half way accross the map. 5) Coordinate a 3rd multi-diretional ambush of your HMG guys (this time with carapice or celericity) as you reach the hive, this is assuming you reached the hive.
The big problems I see with this strat are basically: Its all or nothing so if you fail you probably lose. It depends utterly on your guys being better marines than they are skulks. If your people aren't good you WILL lose it takes two skulks to sneak up on your group and start chomping accuratly and its all over.
Basically I don't like it because it defeats the whole point of having a commander, your commander is reduced to dropping health and ammo, its a formulaic stratagy, I suppose if your a clan with amazing aims and no com ability you might want to use this?
BlueGhost
they can ambush your team with everybody minus the gorge and it comes down to probably two battles of aliens vs marines.
Haha, I love this theorycraft. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It is in fact that the HMG rush is near unstoppable if the marine team is competent. You can say whatever you want that could counter it. Rush their base before they reach yours? Goodluck! They are probably halfway there and probably took out half of your UNSUSPECTING teammates. The route the marines take rush your hive is often the same one the aliens use to rush the marine base. The flaw to this is the fact that marines can survive with just one structure (CC,IP) while the aliens will quickly die off without a hive. If two HMGs made it to the Hive then it only takes 1 clip from each to take out your Hive (4-10 secs?).
You can say that the skulks will be smart and wait in ambush. Too bad, since among competent marines they will be very cautious about checking their backs and corners considering the stakes.
Sensory first won't even work. By the time you know they HMG rushed, you're already half-way dead and barely capped a resource node.
From my EXPERIENCE, the only counter to the HMG rush is stupid marines.
The best Counter I've ever seen was the cloaked skulks or Silenced Skulks.
But... HMG Rush isn't all that great. If you have just 2 coordinated aliens that are ready to pounce on a group of 4 HMG toting marines, you've got it. But, that's really not how the HMG rush works. It's supposed to be a full team rush, so you're not only going for 4 HMG guys, but 2-5 LMGs aswell. That would take full cooperation from the Alien team to stop. No, the HMG rush isn't perfect.
The last game I played last night, Aliens were attacking the marine base, rushing over and over and over, trying to contain us from one side on ns_nothing (dockingwing 01). So they'd stand outside the door, waiting for marines to try to take the hive in cargo bay. Well, we slipped out the back door, just one LMG and myself, toting a Shotgun, and we headed right for their hive. We arrived at the Power Silo, to see they hadn't put any defenses up, and there were no defensive skulks. So the LMG guy crouched and waited for spawning Aliens, and I just loaded round after round into the Hive. I don't remember how many rounds it took at that point in the game, but it wasn't too many more than 20 Shots.
Maybe When I command next time, I'll hook everyone up with shotguns, and they'll go down and take their 15 or so shots, and kill the hive. The great thing about the SG rush would be it's not all or nothing. You could still bounce back from spending 20 resources on 4 guys (80 resources) instead of spending 35 Resources alone on upgrading armory, and 25 resources on 4 guys (135 resources). Usually they won't even try a counter if they see shotguns, but they will if they see HMGs right off the bat.
That sounds a neat tactic, but I think that it wouldn't work on pubs beacuse of ramboing. If u give someone a HMG he surely goes rushing to aliens hive thinking: "Nah, they can't kill me, I have a HMG" and the next thing what happens: <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> leads to: <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> and finally to: <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
And that's the end of a story <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I've pulled off atleast 25 of these HMG rushes successfully, and this counter has never worked. The HMG rush is normally an all or nothing plan. If it fails, the marines are doomed - but that's not my point here. When ever the aliens decide to try this counter, 'simply' hitting the base real hard before the Marines have a chance to kill the hive isn't well thought out. You see, whenever they would try this, I'd drop a CC in the hive that we were killing off just incase something terrible happened to the original base. But even that is unnecessary. 3 HMGs and 1 LMG can take the hive down in probably less than 10 seconds - that gives the skulks what, 7 seconds before they waste away?
Only thing that I've read on here so far that sounds like a decent counter, would be getting 3 Sensory chambers up immediately. Let's say 3 Skulks hide on the cieling, completely cloaked until the Marines step by, and all 3 skulks drop and gnaw on the Marines legs. That sounds like a nice counter to me, anyway.
Yes, I've lead around 25 successful HMG rushes, but then I've also lead probaly that many unsuccessful rushes, as well. To be honest though, I've never lost the HMG rush because of a well coordinated alien team, or some amazing counter. More often than not, I lose because I trust clannies way too often. I figure that they're good enough to be in a clan, so they must know how to use a Heavy Machine Gun, right? Usually these games end in heated arguements about following instructions and why Coke tastes better than Pepsi.
<b>HMG also saves time</b>. If the Kharaa have gorges setting up offensives everywhere, it can really slow you down, particularly when you are trying to take these down with LMGs while fending of skulks at the same time. The HMG allows you to cut down these structures and put the gorges off from building anymore.
this was 8 on 8. one skulk took out 6. a gorge one and the other lagged out into a wall while my cc was chomped.
lesson learnt? pub marines can mostly likely not shoot for **obscenity**, and have the brains of small, carniverous mammals.
YOU JUST SUCK
I told you guys you were slower learners and that in a while you guys would figure it out<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i commed this tactic like a week after release on nano gridlock, worked like a charm then, still works now, sry didn't see your post b4
hmg rush=rawk
There is little, save for exceptional play on the Alien side, that can counter this move <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem being your HMG marines will move SLOOOWLY so they'll be even easier to pull off a multi-directional moving ambush, covering the rear with an HMG is going to be impossible (walking back with HMG hahah!).
If you lose all your marines then you've lost the HMG's and most probably the game.
I imagine it works for the same reason that any kind of rush VS aliens works, the aliens rush youre base, you toast the aliens, you respawn faster you rush to their base and toast it.
If the aliens are good they will:
1) Not all rush your base and die at the start.
2) Realize what your doing the second one of your HMG guys opens fire.
3) Coordinate a multi-directional ambush of your HMG group as soon as it leaves base.
4) Coordinate a second multi-directional ambush of your HMG group as its half way accross the map.
5) Coordinate a 3rd multi-diretional ambush of your HMG guys (this time with carapice or celericity) as you reach the hive, this is assuming you reached the hive.
The big problems I see with this strat are basically: Its all or nothing so if you fail you probably lose. It depends utterly on your guys being better marines than they are skulks. If your people aren't good you WILL lose it takes two skulks to sneak up on your group and start chomping accuratly and its all over.
Basically I don't like it because it defeats the whole point of having a commander, your commander is reduced to dropping health and ammo, its a formulaic stratagy, I suppose if your a clan with amazing aims and no com ability you might want to use this?
BlueGhost
they can ambush your team with everybody minus the gorge and it comes down to probably two battles of aliens vs marines.
It is in fact that the HMG rush is near unstoppable if the marine team is competent. You can say whatever you want that could counter it. Rush their base before they reach yours? Goodluck! They are probably halfway there and probably took out half of your UNSUSPECTING teammates. The route the marines take rush your hive is often the same one the aliens use to rush the marine base. The flaw to this is the fact that marines can survive with just one structure (CC,IP) while the aliens will quickly die off without a hive. If two HMGs made it to the Hive then it only takes 1 clip from each to take out your Hive (4-10 secs?).
You can say that the skulks will be smart and wait in ambush. Too bad, since among competent marines they will be very cautious about checking their backs and corners considering the stakes.
Sensory first won't even work. By the time you know they HMG rushed, you're already half-way dead and barely capped a resource node.
From my EXPERIENCE, the only counter to the HMG rush is stupid marines.
But... HMG Rush isn't all that great. If you have just 2 coordinated aliens that are ready to pounce on a group of 4 HMG toting marines, you've got it. But, that's really not how the HMG rush works. It's supposed to be a full team rush, so you're not only going for 4 HMG guys, but 2-5 LMGs aswell. That would take full cooperation from the Alien team to stop. No, the HMG rush isn't perfect.
The last game I played last night, Aliens were attacking the marine base, rushing over and over and over, trying to contain us from one side on ns_nothing (dockingwing 01). So they'd stand outside the door, waiting for marines to try to take the hive in cargo bay. Well, we slipped out the back door, just one LMG and myself, toting a Shotgun, and we headed right for their hive. We arrived at the Power Silo, to see they hadn't put any defenses up, and there were no defensive skulks. So the LMG guy crouched and waited for spawning Aliens, and I just loaded round after round into the Hive. I don't remember how many rounds it took at that point in the game, but it wasn't too many more than 20 Shots.
Maybe When I command next time, I'll hook everyone up with shotguns, and they'll go down and take their 15 or so shots, and kill the hive. The great thing about the SG rush would be it's not all or nothing. You could still bounce back from spending 20 resources on 4 guys (80 resources) instead of spending 35 Resources alone on upgrading armory, and 25 resources on 4 guys (135 resources). Usually they won't even try a counter if they see shotguns, but they will if they see HMGs right off the bat.
and the next thing what happens:
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> leads to:
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> and finally to:
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
And that's the end of a story <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->