Online training

FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">Would you help?</div>Would you be interested in joining special training servers, where you didn't play NS, but instead you used Half-life voice to teach new players the basics of weapons fire, alien movement modes, the basics of commander mode, map basics, etc?  Assume that there wouldn't be any player killing, blocking, or any other abuses happening.
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Comments

  • Spyder_MonkeySpyder_Monkey Vampire-Ninja-Monkey Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 8Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I've been wanting to be a Drill Instructor for awhile now. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • RhoadsToNowhereRhoadsToNowhere i r 8 Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 33Members
    I like helping out newbies.  And I could probably find an hour here or there to put aside for it.
  • WurmspawnWurmspawn Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 19Members
    but of course, anything for the sake of furthering my chosen races genes.  after all, altruism and kin-assistance is a way to help favour your chances when faced with natural selection.  (my god, reading that, i realize how cheesy it is.  sorry ~;) )
  • Hida_TsuzuaHida_Tsuzua Lamarck&#39;s Heir Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 79Members, NS1 Playtester
    Voice?  Hmm might need mike.  But otherwise sounds good to me.  I can type!  Will there be a "in-game" tutorial map we could work with?  That could help some.
  • realityisdeadrealityisdead Employed by Raven Software after making ns_nothing Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    That sounds very much like one of the classes for the old TF2... the guy that had a laser pointer and helped out new guys. Great idea in other words.

    But no, I would not be interested in doing this.

    (BTW, I like that idea about a tutorial map Hida... What do ya think Flayra?)



    <!--EDIT|ken20banks|April 01 2002,20:50-->
  • MoleculorMoleculor Namer-of-Bob Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 9Members
    I like the idea of a tutorial map to work with myself. It wouldn't require special coding or anything, just the basics, and some examples of possible level geometry.

    Also, while I said 'Yes', it'd be more up my alley to do several hours of work every other week or so.



    <!--EDIT|Moleculor|April 01 2002,21:21-->
  • Spyder_MonkeySpyder_Monkey Vampire-Ninja-Monkey Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 8Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Yeah, like the old Hazard Course from HL. Only the trainer gets to be the hologram. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> Teach the basics, waypoint setting. Let the 'noob' be commander, and follow his waypoints. I can see this taking off. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • MoleculorMoleculor Namer-of-Bob Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 9Members
    OMG! Since cheats could probably be enabled... Would it be possible to actually make the trainer into a hologram?! <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> Like with a hidden command that only works when cheats are on? The people who know the command would have to be sworn to secrecy, and if the secret ever got out, the command could be changed in an update...



    <!--EDIT|Moleculor|April 01 2002,21:30-->
  • realityisdeadrealityisdead Employed by Raven Software after making ns_nothing Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Hehe, that'd be a nice feature.

    Now I remember a discussion about training maps a while back... it was discussed that there would have to be an alien training map.. a marine... etc.

    Hey, and if you did that, you could still use the same concept as the ready room for joining which kind of training you want. Or I guess there could just be seperate maps...

    My guess is that the official word on this will be that while it would be a nice addition, it really might not be worth the time involved...

    Though Flayra does obviously seem to be interested in the concept of training... so, who knows?

    And hey, I wonder if a training level would need all three hives. I bet just a one hive map would be great for [basic] training. That's about where I am right now in my own level. If I don't finish it in time for it to be submitted and considered for inclusion in NSv1, I wonder if it would make a good tutorial map until finished... (In other words, I'd do anything to get a map into the official build, but am not so sure I can pump a full map out that quickly... hint hint.)



    <!--EDIT|ken20banks|April 01 2002,21:41-->
  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I wouldnt mind helping out new players.

    If you want the little hologram bit, why doesnt Flayra just get a few of the interesed parties WON ID's and code it dirrectly into NS.  That way, the IS no command to be "let out".  The Opera is a perfect example of this.  The DEV's all have tags by thier names (when you press Tab) when they play, and no one else gets them (unless they code it into the game).  I think Sven did this too with paying customers or ... something ... not sure.
  • hardy_weinberghardy_weinberg Join Date: 2002-03-27 Member: 357Members
    sure, sounds like fun
  • GreedoGreedo Bounty Hunter Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 37Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--ken20banks+April 01 2002,19:37--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (ken20banks @ April 01 2002,19:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->And hey, I wonder if a training level would need all three hives. I bet just a one hive map would be great for [basic] training.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Of course then the aliens wouldn't get their special multiple hive upgrades.  So it could be like a Starcraft training map (I think it was Starcraft.  It's been so long) where only the basic tech is available.  But I don't know if there's any way to limit the marines in the same manner.
  • realityisdeadrealityisdead Employed by Raven Software after making ns_nothing Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Right, but I wonder how advanced the training really needs to be. You could also have forced or simulated upgrades/evolvings happen too. To simplify things, and get the basic idea across.

    Good point about the marines... I wonder if a training mode would really be a marines vs aliens competition though..



    <!--EDIT|ken20banks|April 01 2002,23:57-->
  • MoleculorMoleculor Namer-of-Bob Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 9Members
    Ok, that's a nice idea.. code the WON IDs in as 'l33t users' and give them the ability to turn themselves holographic, and other things. It'd just have to be something that could be turned on and off at will...

    But I also like the idea of people on the Dev team getting WON IDs in the game for little marks next to their name. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    yea, its actually a pretty nifty little feature in Opera ..
  • pielemuispielemuis Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 72Members, NS1 Playtester
    bah why did noone listen to me when i came up with the training map <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
    Anyway, helping out people new to nS is a nice touch, but wouldn't they learn more on their own, on "real" servers? I never played on a noob server before, and it's my understanding you learn by playing against players that are better than you, anyway if Flayra would liek to go through with this I would like to help, it would be one of those things to keep the community happy and clean  and isn't that what we all want ? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • Shuvit_ViperShuvit_Viper Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 62Members
    A training story! thats what im in for. I would also help newbies out on 'training servers', but not all the time, would want to play too...
    But i think in the first release there will not be enough servers for this, i hope there will be some servers, not just 4 or something like vampire slayer has (long time since i played)...

    i like the trainer hologram idea... maybe the trainer could be a overall commander (commander view, only he sees both teams, and can order and help both teams..)
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    definetly, my mikes getting dusty and i have a sweet spot for people who dont kno what they are doing. i actually get stressed out when a newbie joins a game because i am afraid they will give up and leave instead of just asking me questions on how to do stuff.
  • JedisarJedisar Join Date: 2002-03-03 Member: 264Awaiting Authorization
    Flayra, you can count on me for atleast an hour each night. I'm sure you know what I'm like when I'm working on something...I knoew Spyder Monkey does.
  • StalKalleStalKalle Join Date: 2002-04-01 Member: 371Members
    how about someppl (like 6ppl) joined a NS server.
    Recorded a demo on it, and explained everuthing in the demo.
    In that way you dont have to have like 100000lessons <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
    well if Flayra(dag0d) like my idea, i would just luw helping out with it <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
    //
    look at my avatar thingyy /me happiii
    //
  • WurmspawnWurmspawn Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 19Members
    a recorded demo would help alot of players, but its hard to ask a demo questions.  And although their is a friendly, albeit a bit wierd, IRC channel most ppl would much rather learn in game.
    also, think of the community bonding you would get going on.  you might have ppl see each other later and be like "man, i trained with you! rock on! let's go frag some greasy alien butt together."
    ...
    or something
  • ComproxComprox *chortle* Canada Join Date: 2002-01-23 Member: 7Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    Back to Interfector, I dont think we need a specific training map, more as training on a normal map. I had suggested somewhere an idea abotu running training servers on real maps a few days ago in another thread, and had been talking it over with Monse a bit. I said I was planning on setting 2 servers (Im hoping to rent 5) to training. People could sign up via a site such as readyroom.org for basic or advanced training. Each session wold be held two days a week, maybe a total of 4-8 times (depending on applicants). Monday + Thursday = basic training, resources, killing, upgrades and all that + a little scrimmage. Tuesday + Friday would be more advanced, techniques and you could ask more tactical questions + more scrimming. Once someone signed up via the site, selected players (first come first serve) would be emailed server IP + password (password would change each time) to prevent others from coming in. I would also have the nickname each player would be playing as, and since I would own the servers, I could kick out any people who accidentally got invited by their friends <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
  • pielemuispielemuis Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 72Members, NS1 Playtester
    That's a good idea, if the NS team is willing to pay for it.
    Hmm but who will be the teachers, the playtesters?
  • MuuMuu Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 23Members
    I personaly think that all training should be put into a rather large single player part of the mod - full story of training and first battle, lots of atmosphere - gives the mappers a real chance to work together on something, I dont think it would be to hard to take the current bot code - add some script playback to them <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> beta 4 maybe??
    I bagsy the alien homeword!
  • KassingerKassinger Shades of grey Join Date: 2002-02-20 Member: 229Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--InterFect0r+April 03 2002,12:11--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (InterFect0r @ April 03 2002,12:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's a good idea, if the NS team is willing to pay for it.
    Hmm but who will be the teachers, the playtesters?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Comprox said he would like to rent five servers, which means that he'll be willing to pay for them,
    unless he tells you otherwise. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

    I think what newbies probably want to train on the most is the commanders mode.
    It's unlike anything else seen before with the Half-Life engine and it'll be worse to practice while having responsibility over you team in a 'real' game.

    The simplest way to give everyone a try with the CM is simply to take turns,
    but it would be much cooler if ten different commanders tried ordering people around on the training servers. :S

    Of course it's probably very practical for the trainer to be the commander and get a good overview while
    telling people what to do, but if the n00bs don't get to try CM the training sessions will miss a point.

    A single-player training mission(s) would probably be nice for newbies to start with, though I guess the dev team won't have time to make it now.
    It would be neat if something like that was implemented in a future beta, though. And you could still use training servers to answer questions and teach advanced strategy and such.
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    This is the basic idea I was thinking of:

    When you hit the "Training" button in the menu, you load a single-player, offline, training map that gives you step by step instructions for playing both as marines and as aliens.  It teaches you about the resource model, some of the weapons and abilities, and about the idea of the commander.  Most players would configure your keys and settings during the course of this training, if needed.

    Then I'd like some way to say "Join online training server".  This would get you online, in a non-competitive, social environment.  The goal of this would be to get the player to meet a few other players, build a basic relationship in the community, and to add one or more players onto their buddy lists (the new HL patch adds a built-in Friends Tracker that lets you add and track buddies both in and out of Half-life).  This is your team.  You will have found some players at your skill level, along with at least one veteran, who could also serve as your commander when possible.  Meeting these people would help you find a good game and have a good experience right off the bat.

    The hard part is, figuring out how to use the existing HL infrastructure to have a one-button "join training server" and to make it obvious to players that they should first do the single-player training, then the online training, THEN use the buddy list and/or server list to play from then on out.  Also, there should be a way to encourage well-intentioned and knowledgeable players to log onto the training servers themselves, as trainer.

    I'm thinking about using the "Quickstart" button, as the "Online Training" button, if possible, but I don't think I have any access to how it finds a server.  It's that, or write a separate server browser.
  • StalKalleStalKalle Join Date: 2002-04-01 Member: 371Members
    well i think it would be hard to get players be "teachers" when the mod has been released. Cause then they wanna play the game itself, I think it would like only be newbies on the training server )8
  • MartMart Origin of SUYF Join Date: 2002-02-26 Member: 248Members
    Stal, thats why the poll is here, to find out whether people would be willing to be trainers or not
  • FamFam Diaper-Wearing Dog On A Ball Join Date: 2002-02-17 Member: 222Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I would be more than happy to donate some of my time to helping new players. Playing competitively can only give so much to a game, and the more interaction, be it on a single level or a tutor/tutee level would add a lot to my enjoyment, and also help a new player get into the game and learn about the community while hes at it.

    Theres a certain amount of pride in seeing someone you have taught get their fisrt kill in a public server. I have taken quite a few players 'under my wing', so to speak, in both TFC and CS, and they are some of my fondest memories..

    Oh for the olden days.... <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • SentrySteveSentrySteve .txt Join Date: 2002-03-09 Member: 290Members, Constellation
    I voted yes.  I would really enjoy doing something like this.  I have been on 'the high ranks', if you will, of many ladders and found that I accautly enjoy helping people more than playing competitively.  Also running tournies, holding help rooms, etc. were all very fun events for me.  Like all good things, this came to an end when it was just too expensive to keep the site running and I have been trying to get a position like this for some time.  I filled out an application to become a Gamespy Wizard, and I hope they accept me.  A major part of online 'gaming' for me was accaulty not 'gaming' at all.  It was teaching and helping.
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