Finally....

Terawatt_99 · April 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">*sigh*</div>well, now that we're allowed back on the computers (for today at least...) i can post that layout (which i have decided that i won't use <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>) but here it is, anyone else wanting to try it out, go ahead... i've almost completed another one that i most certainly will use, cause it's pretty much done and i like how it's coming right now...

also, sorry for the bad quality, i'm in the library again, and i still don't have access to any program that can make a good jpg... <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

nrby · April 2002

Thats a phone book of compile errors waiting to happen

starting with max_map_clipnodes :/

Terawatt_99 · April 2002

crap... if it's that bad, my new one will just as bad, cause it's about the same size and complexity, but with better gameplay (imho) well, i'll just hafta try it and see if theres anything i can do to fix it...

oh, and also, that layout is barring unforseen things, like blocked corridors, among other things...

Slycaster · April 2002

well, map the layout out, THEN add detail, you can go on from what the clipnodes are from once you make the entire layout. It may not be as bad as narby says.

Merkaba · April 2002

Way way way too symmetrical. Players would get bored/confused with having to navigate through 4 mirrors of the same layout.

Try and be a bit more imaginative when you make your layout, and keep in mind that you are actually designing your LEVEL, and not just a layout. Think in 3D, and visualise what the level will be like when you play, and also try and design the rooms on paper, even if its just a short description.

I hope I don't sound harsh...but it's a point that needs to be stressed. You're not designing a pattern, you're designing a level...

coil · April 2002

I agree... 4x symmetry is going to be waaaay too confusing.

Hellocke · April 2002

Good god. Looking at that, after algebra class, makes my head hurt. Or was it History... Ah, Hell, I can't remember anymore. But, anyway... Try and mix it up a little. Even in real life, I doubt marines would make a complex like that. They'd get lost. Alot. I mean, they're just ground pounders after all.

Terawatt_99 · April 2002

well, like i said, i decided not to use this layout after all, so all is good <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> the layout that i'm working on right now is relatively symmetrical too, but it can change fairly quickly, with a bit of battle damage on the ship from some kind of fighting, you never know, half the ship might be blown off from the rest of it, if something <b>really</b> bad were to happen <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

MonsieurEvil · April 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Hellocke @ April 17 2002,18:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even in real life, I doubt marines would make a complex like that. They'd get lost. Alot. I mean, they're just ground pounders after all.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Heyyyyy, watch it! I was a ground pounder for many years, and I could out-navigate anyone in this joint with a lensatic compass. Not to mention I probably have more higher education than you, non-ground pounder...

<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Terawatt_99 · April 2002

well, think about it, you've seen star trek, right? can you honestly tell me that you can tell one corridor from the next in those buggeringly huge starships?

coil · April 2002

That's 'cause they only *had* one "corridor" set. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Black_Wolf · April 2002

hehe, heres where signage would come in handy.

Flayra · April 2002

Don't forget though, on Star Trek, they don't care if it's easy to navigate or not, a game is totally different. It's not like viewers or ratings drop when the hallways are "confusing" or "too similar". :)

Relic25 · April 2002

I'm not sure how I feel about this subject. While I agree that an overly-symmetrical design is not a good idea, since past experience has proven that players are too easily confused by similar-looking areas or symmetrical layouts, I have had a couple people express dislike for my map's layout, which is completely <i>asymetrical</i> and has very distinct looking areas. An old map of mine, Deep6, wasn't <i>really</i> symmetrical much at all, except for one central plus-shaped hub. Even with very obvious signage, players still complained that it was far too confusing. I'm sure the first time de_dust was ever played, there were players who ranted because they couldn't figure out where they were because the whole map looked "too similar", since there were so little variation in texturing. I don't know what to believe anymore. I do think that people's tastes and comfort levels with maps vary <b>greatly</b>, so you will never be able to please everyone. Your best bet is to just do the best you can and hope in the end that people have fun playing it.

coil · April 2002

A compromise in a symmetrical map is to make the layout the same, but put distinct markers in each sector... for instance, color coding or numbered pillars (like parking lots).

Hellocke · April 2002

But... Parking lots confuse me too. And sorry about the Ground pounder comment, MonsE. It's just that... Well, who in their right mind, would go in to battle against mutated, spikey aliens, wearing half a helmet and no armour around their necks?! No offence to the models of course. I love 'em. (Is definetly gonna be a marine player.)

Finally....

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