My View On Ns's Biggest Problem
Stickyresin
Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11455Members
Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11455Members
<div class="IPBDescription">No its not about game balance</div> I personally think that NS has the highest diversity vs balance ratio of any game ever released...meaning the two sides are completely different, yet very balanced. I have played enough games to know that either side can win any map, depending on the tactics chosen. However there is one part of NS that i know gets on everyones nerves, whether they know it or not.
I am referring to the end of every game. Towards the end of every game, there is a point that is reached where the losing team no longer has any real chance of coming back, and must spend the next 10 to 15 minutes getting slaughtered, awaiting their eminent destruction.
Unfortunately i can not possibly think of a way to solve the problem. This is just a bi-product of the way the game was designed. Perhaps some discussion on the topic might yield a viable solution?
I am referring to the end of every game. Towards the end of every game, there is a point that is reached where the losing team no longer has any real chance of coming back, and must spend the next 10 to 15 minutes getting slaughtered, awaiting their eminent destruction.
Unfortunately i can not possibly think of a way to solve the problem. This is just a bi-product of the way the game was designed. Perhaps some discussion on the topic might yield a viable solution?
Comments
AP bullets for marines for anti-Onos, gas filters for anti-spores... some type of venom for alien teeth/claws for more damage and armor-piercing...
*shrug* If anything, I'd say put this in a mod to try it out first before even considering implementing it into any 'real' version of NS. And even if it works great as a mod, it still might be better off remaining as a server-side option that an admin can enable or disable.
Hit it, and the aliens get upgraded attack speed & movement, but lose health, FAST. And make it unstoppable, so they ARE going to die from it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> But at least you'll have fun.
Yet, say for Aliens who are about to lose, they can just take the pleasure on killing marines coming into their base or killing their other structure... And I know for a fact that marines, when facing 3 hives, love to try to take one down for honour even if they know they're losing already. And it is ultimately satisfying to kill an onos with melee weapon <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> or hunt gorges....
see, endgame can be fun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit] Actually, just came up with this wild idea...
How about, have a fun mode variable so that when the team is destined to lose, in the following situations:
Marines - lose CC and IPs
Aliens - Lose last hive and have no current hive building
The losing team spawn back all the members at once (kinda like distress signal) and the opposing team will be transformed to the weakest fighter (gorge with spitgun only/lightmarine with knife only) to let the losing team have a final hunting opportunity?
would be fun but doubt it's going to happen <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Unfortunatly, I can't think of any way to speed the process (and I don't know that I'd want to, I've seen a good many comebacks, usually when the aliens split up and harass more areas than the marines can gaurd at once, while attacking a hive).
Just popping in to say that I just had the most amazing game so far.
Map: ns_eclipse
We start in Eclipse Command, I gorg up and head for Power Sub Junction. The skulks are doing a pretty good job of harassing the marines on the left side and parasiting them, so the marines opt to go for Maintainence hive. I cap PSJ and move into Computer Core, cap it. I hear the marines are expanding to South Loop and that there is a Phase Gate at MA, so I go for Station Access then start saving for the hive, but Marines are getting base up outside it.
The skulks don't manage to drive off the Marines from Computer Core, and there's a siege up. However, Marine Base is all but defenseless. All the skulks except one (aLFa) starts attacking Computor Core as a diversion, while I an aLFa head into Marine Base. No turrets there, so I get two OC's up at the Phase Gate. Once they are up the COM spots us, and some marines appear through the Phase Gate. We manage to kill them and the Phase Gate off before too much reinforcement arrives though, and make short work of the Marine Base.
COM has set up new CC and IP's outside Computer Core however, and now they are moving out towards Eclipse Hive. We manage to defend it with skulks, but they are keeping the pressure on. I sneak off to Maintainence Access as a skulk and jump down below the hive and hide. Once again all the Skulks Start attacking Comp Core as a diversion, while I get 8 DC's up under the hive location. When the DC's are up I start the hive, get up to ground level, and start building OC's inside the Marine Outpost. At this time I am calling for skulks to help me and some arrive, but not many, most are dead from attacking Comp Core.
My backup gets killed pretty quickly and it gets a *bit* hectic fending off the Marines attempt to save their outpost (get about 5 healspray kills here <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) But the hive is up almost up!! The outpost is killed, but marines are now setting up siege at South Loop. The skulks fail to kill it, but the hive goes up and a few manage to go fade before the hive dies from the siege.
We're now getting over-confident and try to attack the Marine Base at Comp Core. The result, all Fades die. Insert an hour of grisly fighting. We manage to get Maintenance hive up *again*. This time we have enough resources to let almost everyone go fade, however, while most of our team is gestating the Marines once again take Maintenance back. This time they fortify it well and get siege up, re-take will be hard. However, a few skulks have been hitting the Marine Comp Core base regularily and it is looking weak.
Fades gather up and hit Comp Core base with gorg backup, and we manage to take it. Once again a hive goes up. Fades haven't been very effective so far since we've never had time to get more then one movement chamber up, but this time we get a breather and people finally get their adrenaline upgrade. Marines have once again relocated, and Maintanence is their new base. After some fighting we manage to get two heal stations up outside siege range and start hitting it.
We spend a good 45 minutes or so attacking the marines, they have HMG's and GL's, so we're not making much progress. One jetbo gets through and almost manages to weld one of our hives, but we get him just in time. After that it seems like the back of the marines are broken. We have them locked down and we have enough resources to re-Fade immediatly when we die, Marines just don't have enough resources to keep themself equipped all the time (but lvl3 LMG's still hurt). It's just a matter of time though, and soon enough the Fades manage to move in in destroy the last Marine outpost. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Best game I ever played, even the Marines were happy afterwards (most of the Aliens were more then happy going "OMG OMG OMG I DON'T BELIEVE IT"
Anyway, the point is:
* People give up too soon. On a regular pub the aliens *and* Marines would have given up at least 2 times each under these circumstances.
* The game is balanced incredibly well considering the diversity of the teams. I'd say that the perfect balance is at 8 vs 8, more players means advantage marines, less means aliens have it easy.
* Most public servers suck (Well, that's not in the story but I had just hopped on a pub before this game happened and suffered through the usual early quitters, 4 gorgs on a team, marines s?tting in base whining for guns or running off rambo-style, COM building outside map, people spamming voicecom etc etc)
The problem is, most commanders take one hive, but then don't ever bother going for the HMG's! While the aliens put everything they have into defending and getting up the second hive, the marines change very little since the start of the game, and end up fighting the fades with gear meant for skulks.
I joined as a marine when the game was almost over. You guys did an excellent job with teamwork.
Flayra and the rest of the dev team have said that they have balanced the game at the 2 hive stage, With the marines at the top of their tech tree.
The problem is, most commanders take one hive, but then don't ever bother going for the HMG's! While the aliens put everything they have into defending and getting up the second hive, the marines change very little since the start of the game, and end up fighting the fades with gear meant for skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i find this in EVERY game, i have only played one game (and im marine 90% of the time) in the past month (i play every day) where we have been fitted out with hmg/ha and have been able to win, for the aliens its TOOO easy to evolve, the are evolving before we even have and advanced armoury.
interesting point about starcraft, if u look at the tech tree that came with the manual you will see that there is a direct counter for EVERY unit, be it air/ground. the units are developed to kill each other effectively, and are under the skin the same unit really. i dont think NS is evenly balanced