Grenades In V1.03 Are Already Very Powerful

JRockJRock Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10032Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Upping the damage in v1.04 isjust insane</div> This is silly. There was nothing wrong with grenades in v1.03 and instead of leaving them alone now we're going to have to deal with super grenades. This is going to make v1.04's biggest complaint the grenades.
Although I'm sure most people are still busy complaining about how the slight increase in alien spawntime still doesn't rival the Marine spawnrate.

And the grenades most definitely should <b>not</b> receive a damage bonus from the Ammo upgrades the Marines get. Nor should mines. Bullets are for guns and sentries. Grenades and Mines should not receive any bonuses (besides they're already plenty powerful and in 1.04 insanely powerful grenades - 200hp base plus the upgrades means one grenade pretty much frags the hell out of a maxed out Fade). That's stupid, especially since Fades are the alien's best evolution possible as long as the Marines hold one hive.

This will change the entire course of the game from a quest for which team can get two hives to "prevent the Marines from getting any hives or you're screwed" which we all know is impossible enough already without super grenades.


End rant.
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Comments

  • SanchoSancho Join Date: 2002-03-30 Member: 365Members
    edited January 2003
    <span style='color:red'>***NUKED - I will learn to express myself in a nicer manner***</span>
  • ShadowXORShadowXOR Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10106Members
    I think the changes to the grenade launcher are fine.
  • Soldier_of_MisfortuneSoldier_of_Misfortune Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11957Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--ShadowXOR+Jan 11 2003, 01:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShadowXOR @ Jan 11 2003, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the changes to the grenade launcher are fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ^
    Speaks the truth
  • Speed_2_DaveSpeed_2_Dave Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8788Members
    To the guy suggesting the suggestions form, he might have, but the general discussion is for discussing such changes, to see if they are viable or not, or to see if a certain issue with the game (grenade strength, in this case) should be changed or not. The suggestions are more for the "exacto box-cutter knife" addition for the marines, or for serious issues, or for complete thoughts... Or at least that's what they seemed to be for.
  • TheHornetTheHornet Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1776Members, Constellation
    i think the changes will be for the better, nades cost the most so they should hurt the most.
  • GWARGWAR Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2297Members, Contributor
    I liked it in 1.03 better, In 1.04 they just made a great weapon even more powerful.
  • SirusSirus Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8466Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Whats wrong with a weapon doing what its supposed to do? It's explosives its not supposed to be weak.
  • GWARGWAR Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2297Members, Contributor
    And its not suppose to destroy everything in its path, the blast from that thing makes a onos look like a toy
  • EidolanEidolan Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8694Members
    One thing to keep in mind is how hard it is to hit anything with the nades, i think leave the damage as is but shorten the dam timer or have em blow up on impact because right now a nade can land next to a fade and hes got more then enuf time to run to safety.
  • GWARGWAR Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2297Members, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--Eidolan+Jan 11 2003, 07:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eidolan @ Jan 11 2003, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One thing to keep in mind is how hard it is to hit anything with the nades, i think leave the damage as is but shorten the dam timer or have em blow up on impact because right now a nade can land next to a fade and hes got more then enuf time to run to safety.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I guess fades shouldnt be able to dodge at all then <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • T_RATT_RAT Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10967Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I think they r fine to. Its not like u get everyone with gren launchers all the time. If u r getting lots u have probably won already.
  • InjuryInjury Mahou Shoujo Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7992Banned
    Grenade Launchers are fairly expensive to begin with and hard to use. A truly fearsome weapon in the hands of a skilled grenadier and absolutely useless in the hands of an incompetent player. It all balances out and I have no complaints with 1.04, possibly because I haven't <b>played</b> it yet. Too many 1.04 balance posts already and its not even out.. yare yare.. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Dauntl3ssDauntl3ss Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7737Members
    GL is becoming just fine IMO..
  • FatKaoFatKao Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6385Members
    hay dood, what's going on in this th
  • AhnteisAhnteis teh Bob Join Date: 2002-10-02 Member: 1405Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Injury+Jan 11 2003, 08:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Injury @ Jan 11 2003, 08:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Grenade Launchers are fairly expensive to begin with and hard to use. A truly fearsome weapon in the hands of a skilled grenadier and absolutely useless in the hands of an incompetent player. It all balances out and I have no complaints with 1.04, possibly because I haven't <b>played</b> it yet. Too many 1.04 balance posts already and its not even out.. yare yare.. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You should try the beta servers.
  • DoombringerDoombringer Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8679Members, Constellation
    GL is -the- top weapon for the marines. Sure, HMG has a high ROF and when fully upgraded it is one badass mother... but the grenades should top that. They're explosives! More accurately, they're explosives being used close-quarters - that doubles, if not triples, their stopping power already. Carapace or not, the aliens are still fleshy creatures that should not be able to survive repeated grenade blasts.

    As it is, the grenades are horrible to aim with. Their arc is low, they bounce around, their clip is small and reloading is slow. Unless the marine is a dead-on shot, a Fade or Skulk or -anything- can slip past the grenades (as they fly past) and get up close and personal with the marine. That, in my opinion, makes a GL Marine (HA or not) very vulnerable despite how much damage he can do. To be truly effective, he'd need 1 or two HA HMG marines backing him and perhaps an LMG sticking back to weld. That, or a jetpack, but even a solo JPer is vulnerable (and is only LMG armor!).

    Remember! Aliens work very well alone, and are deadly in groups (Fade/Lerk combos, etc.). Marines ALWAYS need to be in groups. So.. that GL isn't just 33 res, it's 33 res + HA + HA and HMG for a few other guys for cover, if the comm wants the attack to work. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Carbon14Carbon14 Join Date: 2002-07-29 Member: 1025Members, Retired Developer
    Not looking forward to 1.04. I joined one of the servers, and left fairly soon afterward. We had 2 hives, and the marines obviously had some upgrades, but one on one the fades were losing against rambo marines, and it takes quite a while for an alien to save and turn back to a fade.

    Anyway we battled it out for quite a while, then the marines got GL's, needless to say, I left the server and found a 1.03 one.
  • JKooLJKooL Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11492Members, Constellation
    On every 1.04 server I've been on, marines still lose a hefty amount of the time. The grenades don't come into play often, and when they do, it's short lived - the grenadier is killed off fast. Who cares if the grenadier takes out 3-4 aliens before he dies. The grenade is the best technology the marine can get, compared to the onos. The onos takes out marines by the dozen before dying.

    In conclusion.

    Grenades are fine. They need to be FEARED, and they need to dish out a heavy amount of damage.

    -JKooL
  • CyborgguineapigCyborgguineapig Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3233Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--JKooL+Jan 11 2003, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JKooL @ Jan 11 2003, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On every 1.04 server I've been on, marines still lose a hefty amount of the time. The grenades don't come into play often, and when they do, it's short lived - the grenadier is killed off fast. Who cares if the grenadier takes out 3-4 aliens before he dies. The grenade is the best technology the marine can get, compared to the onos. The onos takes out marines by the dozen before dying.

    In conclusion.

    Grenades are fine. They need to be FEARED, and they need to dish out a heavy amount of damage.

    -JKooL<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Agree
  • J2pcJ2pc Join Date: 2002-12-05 Member: 10485Members
    edited January 2003
    Ehm, it's really not that hard to take a ha/gl out, u just gotta know how to do it

    And it is true, grenades r the top of the marines, but they also need backup, no gl will keep stand at 2 or 3 skulks with celerity and car/regen

    Skulks come rushing gl at the front,
    GL spams 4 grenades, and misses (obiously)
    switches to pistol by the time the skulks get to him
    skulks bit his **** of while he's trying to doge them and shoot his pistol

    [edit]
    So grenades r not overpowerd
    ^
    ^ Agree
    [/edit]
  • T_RATT_RAT Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10967Members, Reinforced - Gold
    If u can get in between the gren going off and the marine, he doesnt stand a chance unless he has good backup. So try single marines out.
  • ChackChack Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12192Members
    I think it's ok to have really deadly grenades as long as they also damage their own team. Right now a marine team can dig in their base and spamm the entrance with grenades, and it stops the aliens for ages from getting in with the current grenade damage already. Marines just spamm everywhere as friendly fire is disabled on kinda every server i was on yet.

    I don't know if that's the way it is in hl (I come from q3 and friendly fire is enebled on any euro server, just americans seem to disable it or use mirror damage on publics), but I think it's really bad. Of course the devs should think of different friendly fire settings for explosive weapons and regular weapons, since marines shooting each other with lmg guns could make skulks very powerful.

    It's just silly how marines just run through their own teams grenade spamm whilst aliens can't.
  • CruzzCruzz Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9007Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Chack+Jan 11 2003, 08:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chack @ Jan 11 2003, 08:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it's ok to have really deadly grenades as long as they also damage their own team. Right now a marine team can dig in their base and spamm the entrance with grenades, and it stops the aliens for ages from getting in with the current grenade damage already. Marines just spamm everywhere as friendly fire is disabled on kinda every server i was on yet.

    I don't know if that's the way it is in hl (I come from q3 and friendly fire is enebled on any euro server, just americans seem to disable it or use mirror damage on publics), but I think it's really bad. Of course the devs should think of different friendly fire settings for explosive weapons and regular weapons, since marines shooting each other with lmg guns could make skulks very powerful.

    It's just silly how marines just run through their own teams grenade spamm whilst aliens can't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's mostly disabled on euroservers too. When FF is on, I think it's only 40% damage of what the real amount would be I think.

    Anyway, 2 marines spamming grenades at an entrance when the aliens do not have Onos already stops pretty much any attack. I wonder what 1.04 will be like, maybe only one marine will be required then...
  • reborebo Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2734Members
    Is the GL by its nature a skill less spam weapon, or is it possible to become skilled in its use? I wish the GL was like the demomans pipelauncher in TFC, it is a skillfull weapon but similarly not overpowered.

    Sometimes i think the grens lauched by the GL are very unpredictable (maybe thats just me).

    In the right hands the GL should be the most powerful marine weapon in the game as it costs the most.
  • JRockJRock Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10032Members
    edited January 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Injury+Jan 11 2003, 03:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Injury @ Jan 11 2003, 03:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have no complaints with 1.04, possibly because I haven't <b>played</b> it yet. Too many 1.04 balance posts already and its not even out.. yare yare..  <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes it is. Go find a 1.04 test server and play it.

    Also, to those of you saying "well it's the Marines' best weapon, sort of like the Onos for the Aliens" - you forget that Aliens require hives to reach higher levels of evolution whereas Marines can simply delay and delay and use time to their advantage, because in ANY game, given enough TIME, the Marines can be maxed out and unstoppable even in v1.03. To see these super nades and other silliness is irrational and just makes it even harder (impossible actually) for aliens to ever make a comeback or win after, say, the 20 minute mark when Marines have researched and handed out GLs.

    And in every match I've played with competent people, Marines hold at the VERY LEAST, one hive. So aliens will never get level 3 upgrades - Onos, Bile Bomb, Spore Cloud, Babblers, a third chamber type etc., whereas Marines have nothing stopping their upgrade path.

    So the aliens already have this disadvantage when considering max upgrades, and now they will have an even more difficult time trying to win late in the game - a time that in v1.03 i've seen a lot of excellent games played where aliens are actually able to make amazing comebacks. Well this won't happen anymore since you have (v1.04 brutally effective) grenade spam at every entrance to every Marine base, and jetpacking grenadiers taking out hives (since the welder's damage has been reduced, gee maybe they'll take that 290hp/shot grenade launcher for ninja hive demolitions!)

    <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
    Well The aliens do have Onos which is just a big tank. And the grenade launcher did used to be stonger as it is now WITH a 6 round clip.

    Its where it should be now so it can counter the ever famous wall of lame and gorges putting up turrets to block evevaotrs from working etc.
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin--Chack+Jan 11 2003, 08:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chack @ Jan 11 2003, 08:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it's ok to have really deadly grenades as long as they also damage their own team. Right now a marine team can dig in their base and spamm the entrance with grenades, and it stops the aliens for ages from getting in with the current grenade damage already. Marines just spamm everywhere as friendly fire is disabled on kinda every server i was on yet.

    I don't know if that's the way it is in hl (I come from q3 and friendly fire is enebled on any euro server, just americans seem to disable it or use mirror damage on publics), but I think it's really bad. Of course the devs should think of different friendly fire settings for explosive weapons and regular weapons, since marines shooting each other with lmg guns could make skulks very powerful.

    It's just silly how marines just run through their own teams grenade spamm whilst aliens can't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, as of 1.03, all friendly fire - including any damage from your own grenades - does 1/3 damage. Which means that two direct hits from a max upgraded grenade launcher does the same damage as one skulk bite.

    Means that if you want to suicide using a GL, you will have to reload... if you are wearing HA, you will have to reload about five times.

    There is in fact a better way of handling friendly fire damage from a GL. Before a grenade goes off, it checks if there are friendly marines close by. In which case it simply doesn't explode.

    Oh, and stop armories from loading the weapon. That will stop the cheap base-grenade-spamming.

    After that, the GL can - and should - be upgraded ... probably back to the six clip and same ROF it had in 1.0.
  • AhnteisAhnteis teh Bob Join Date: 2002-10-02 Member: 1405Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--matso42+Jan 12 2003, 05:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (matso42 @ Jan 12 2003, 05:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, as of 1.03, all friendly fire - including any damage from your own grenades - does 1/3 damage. Which means that two direct hits from a max upgraded grenade launcher does the same damage as one skulk bite.

    Means that if you want to suicide using a GL, you will have to reload... if you are wearing HA, you will have to reload about five times.

    There is in fact a better way of handling friendly fire damage from a GL. Before a grenade goes off, it checks if there are friendly marines close by. In which case it simply doesn't explode.

    Oh, and stop armories from loading the weapon. That will stop the cheap base-grenade-spamming.

    After that, the GL can - and should - be upgraded ... probably back to the six clip and same ROF it had in 1.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Errrm

    Friendly fire is a tournament mode only thing. And it's 1/3 to your allies, full damage to you.
  • coilcoil Amateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance. Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Keep in mind that self-damage from grenades is ALWAYS on, tournament mode or casual. So the increased damage hurts the grenadier, too.

    Grenades were increased in power because the siege was decreased in effectiveness, now requiring a spotter. A more dangerous GL means that marines are able to take on fortified areas without having to set up a siege - it offers them a new tactic.

    Grenadiers are very vulnerable without proper support, and the extremely small clip and ammo reserve are distinct drawbacks. Yes, they're powerful... but DAMN do they eat up RPs when you're resupplying ammo on the go. And if a grenadier uses up all his ammo on structures (which should be his primary concern), he's a sitting duck for any alien with only a pistol for last-ditch defense.
  • freeofreeo Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5518Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--coil+Jan 12 2003, 12:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Jan 12 2003, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Grenades were increased in power because the siege was decreased in effectiveness, now requiring a spotter. A more dangerous GL means that marines are able to take on fortified areas without having to set up a siege - it offers them a new tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    hmm... i didn't really think about that. i guess the damage increase isn't so bad afterall, considering the siege has been nerfed.

    however, i think the grenades should be made a little easier to see. this dark greyish 1 centimeter bottle is really difficult to spot.
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