Gorgekick Script

Mayhem · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Beta Server</div> I've written a gorgekick script thats burrently in beta
if you'd like to help test it or see it you can connect
to 129.21.147.40:27015

This script dispays a text menu to all the aliens to
select a gorge and forces him evolve to a skulk.
say "gorgekick" to activate.

Edit: Heres the compiled plugin. Just change 2 things in adminmod.cfg.

Add this line:
amv_enable_beta "menu1"

Modify this line from:
allow_client_exec 0
To:
allow_client_exec 1

<a href='http://sl33pl3ss.cc/mayhem/plugin_gorge.zip' target='_blank'>http://sl33pl3ss.cc/mayhem/plugin_gorge.zip</a>

Mercior · January 2003

I havent gone there to test this yet but it sounds like an excellent idea! Good job <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Although this theoretically becomes void in 1.04 (Or 1.1 client)

Tcquest78 · January 2003

So what happens when a gorge is jumping? or somewhere where he can't evolve?

IMO, a better idea to just slay him.

Cyborgguineapig · January 2003

Actually I call this total mod manipulation. Nice idea but bad results will come out of this possibly effecting the growth of NS. So some noob wants to be Gorge to find out about it and he gets devolved and called noob. We can expect either three things. He now acts like a dumb**** ruining the aliens game and cussing his team out through Mic, Second, he will simply become less useful after being denied gorge, or three, another NS player will be lost from the community. Voogroo's alien chamber xenocide building by resource node's script is a usefull one, but yours my friend,c an alter game-play a little to much. Who the hell says that having two gorges is bad. Its strategy and NS was not meant to limit the amount of Gorge players. Its up to team communication to make a gorge devolve to skulk. If he doesn't change back then thats a teamwork issue and having a script to kick a gorge is just not right. Now imagine, this is like creating a script for kicking a grenade launcher out of a newb marines hands onto another player. Doesn't that sound messed up? After all we want NS to grow not be given a bad reputation for brutality against newbies.

Ruri · January 2003

yes slay him instead. It costs 4 rps to go skulk, why waste it? Just slay him.

Mayhem · January 2003

Mercior: I'm curious why you think it the script will be useless in later versions? If its because they change the resources models to support 2 gorges in the beginning then I still think the script has some uses. 3+ gorges, AFK Gorge, or perhaps a known gorge who always places sensory first.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tcquest78 @ Jan 12 2003, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>So what happens when a gorge is jumping? or somewhere where he can't evolve?

IMO, a better idea to just slay him.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
It keeps trying to change him every 8 seconds or so until he is changed.When we work the bugs out we do plan to slay the gorge IF they haven't been skulkified after a certain amount of tries.

Cyborgguineapig: It's a servers choice to allow the ALIEN team to choose who they want for gorges. Exactly like how you can boot a bad commander. They are both builders in my opinion and both can make or break your team. This script doesnt say you cant have 2,3,4 or 5 gorges. It says you have to option to kick a single gorge per vote. Yes you can kick newb gorges out. As they play they can learn from other gorges how to build defenses properly, and god forbid they actually read a forum post or two on how to be a great gorge. And if one alien puts the vote up, the alien team can simply choose to cancel ( keep the gorges they have). I simply propose that the alien team should be empowered to kick useless or afk gorges from hogging all the resources. I do take the point about turning newbs into jerks. I understand there is a possiblity for that. Again servers are welcome to try this script out. I think it is beneficial overall.

Thank you for your suggestions. We're looking for more comments and suggestions.

Mayhem · January 2003

Alright we had a successful night of testing. We finally got to test with a decent amount of players. Everything went good so I've decided to post the compiled version of the script for servers to try. If you do put it on your server you will need to change 2 things in adminmod.cfg.

Add this line:
amv_enable_beta "menu1"

Modify this line from:
allow_client_exec 0
To:
allow_client_exec 1

<a href='http://sl33pl3ss.cc/mayhem/plugin_gorge.zip' target='_blank'>http://sl33pl3ss.cc/mayhem/plugin_gorge.zip</a>

This script binds keys 6-0 to slot6-10 (default for other mods)
NS just doesn't use those keys so its not bound by default.

Any problems/suggestions you need to report can be sent to Dave@TradedAddictions.com ...

zipper · January 2003

But you shouldn't boot a bad Commander or Gorge. Rookies have to learn somehow, and what better place than a server full of like-minded individuals? It's supposed to be about fun. As a community we should be willing to help out the new guy, not turn into the CS crowd of elitests.

If someone is abusing their Commanding/Gorging, then fine, eject them, but it looks to me like things of this nature will become commonplace just to kick newbies so they can win. Yes, winning is fun, but so is learning and helping others. Who knows, maybe the newbie you helped learn to Gorge better will play with you again in a month and lead your team to victory. That'd make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Oh, and by the way. Abusing Gorge is NOT building out of the linear and unfortunately accepted above all else DC\MC\SC order.

Ok, that's my mindless rant for the night. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

BlueGhost · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Actually I call this total mod manipulation. Nice idea but bad results will come out of this possibly effecting the growth of NS. So some noob wants to be Gorge to find out about it and he gets devolved and called noob. We can expect either three things. He now acts like a dumb**** ruining the aliens game and cussing his team out through Mic, Second, he will simply become less useful after being denied gorge, or three, another NS player will be lost from the community. Voogroo's alien chamber xenocide building by resource node's script is a usefull one, but yours my friend,c an alter game-play a little to much. Who the hell says that having two gorges is bad. Its strategy and NS was not meant to limit the amount of Gorge players. Its up to team communication to make a gorge devolve to skulk. If he doesn't change back then thats a teamwork issue and having a script to kick a gorge is just not right. Now imagine, this is like creating a script for kicking a grenade launcher out of a newb marines hands onto another player. Doesn't that sound messed up? After all we want NS to grow not be given a bad reputation for brutality against newbies.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

There are newbs and there are newbs, if the newb is prepaird to learn and listen then cool let him play gorge or better yet let him escort the gorge.

If he's just messing about had hasn't got a fking clue then he should RTFM RTFF but most importantly LISTEN to players, if he isn't willing to listen let him be banned from gorge. He deserves to be banned from the sodding server.

BlueGhost

Chron · January 2003

No one should be commander if they don't know marines, and no one should be gorge if they don't know aliens. You could have a gorge who at the very start puts up O chambers instead of RTs and upgrades. You should play aliens enough to know NOT to do that BEFORE you morph to gorge. That would be a good time to slay/devolve the gorge. Gorge really is MUCH easier to learn without practice than commander is - the transition is very smooth. There isn't much of an excuse for a really crappy gorge. And don't you find it interesting that almost all the newbie/stupid gorges also NEVER respond to chat requests tell them to do something. Its basically like having a commander that sits in an unoccupied area spamming health packs and turret factories while the marines fight somewhere else. You can boot a comm for that, why not gorge?

Katsuro · January 2003

You dont need to be able to vote off gorges because.....

You can have more than one.

Its not 1/10 as bad as a bad captain, since theres only one captain, and one resourse pool. If a gorge wastes 100 res, he only wasted *his* resources. When a marines captain wastes res you cant really come back from it, since you have to kick him out first.

And for you people who whine about sensory towers, theyre not really all that bad, since they grant invisibility. And since motion track disables cloaking, its better to get it early in the game while you can use it.

BlueGhost · January 2003

Sensory is all very well untill you have two hives, at which point you're gonna need movement or your lurk/fades are not half as effective.

2nd gorges screw up the res flow, they basically double the ammount of time it takes to get that 2nd hive up, its not quite as bad as the com who cycles everything but at least then the game is over quickly a newbie gorge can just cripple you enough to give you an annoying defeat.

BlueGhost

NinjaBurger · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Katsuro @ Jan 12 2003, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If a gorge wastes 100 res, he only wasted *his* resources.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
What happens when the Gorge drops Offense Chambers on top of Resource Nozzles?

Repeatedly?

What happens when there are already three Gorges and a newbie/troublemaker goes Gorge, giving the team 4?

What happens when the guy who gets 33 resources "is just going to Gorge to drop a Resource Chamber and then go back", except he decides instead he's going to "scout around a little bit" and starts wasting resources on OC's in dumb areas?

When a Newbie/troublemaker Gorge does these things, he's not just wasting his resources. He's wasting resources that could have gone to everyone else on the team, if he hadn't taken them.

He's taking an extra helping of Stuffing at dinner while others on the team go a bit hungrier. And instead of eating that Stuffing, he's throwing it on the floor.

Mayhem · January 2003

Let's say someone new to NS hops into a server and the marines are full. It recommends to try marines first. So now you have a guy whos never played NS before with the name NSPLAYER. More than likely if his name is still NSPLAYER he has no idea how to change it or that his name is actually NSPLAYER. Okay so now he gets this little popup saying you can evolve into other life forms by going up and right. Bam a new player on the alien team whos evolving into a gorge. I've got nothing against new players learning how to gorge. Everyones saying aww lets teach them how to play. Okay I agree with that they do have to learn sometime. But lets compromise like mentioned earlier some of these new gorges don't listen at all. And whoever is suggesting that you teach a gorge how to play EARLY on in a game is just crazy! Your skulks need to be guarding a second hive. The script allows you to de-evolve a "newbie" gorge early on in the game. It never bans him like Voogru's script does. This way later on when you have plenty of resources and not as much to worry about you can teach them and make them productive team members. It's insane to think that one or two new gorges can make you lose a game which sometimes takes hours to finish. I don't see that as fun, especially when some marine teams can't co-ordinate to kill 1 hive against skulks and lerks.

Keep your comments coming I'll try to address your concerns <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

New IP for the Test Server: 129.21.147.40:27015

Canadianmonk3y · January 2003

Hands-on learning is much slower than having the newbie watch an expert.
That being said, newbies should not go gorge/commander until they watch what other people do, and get a good grasp of the game, as those are the spots that make the most difference in the game.

uranium_235 · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyborgguineapig @ Jan 12 2003, 10:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Actually I call this total mod manipulation. Nice idea but bad results will come out of this possibly effecting the growth of NS. So some noob wants to be Gorge to find out about it and he gets devolved and called noob. We can expect either three things. He now acts like a dumb**** ruining the aliens game and cussing his team out through Mic.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That's why god created LAN servers and sv_cheats 1. I ALWAYS do this first in EVERY multiplayer game I play... and if you take time in a white-knuckle 10 vs 10 server to find out that 'spit' doesn't do that as much damage as you thought, then I'd kick you right out.

Example: Soldier of Fortune 2. I had NO idea what was good for what, but I played in a LAN server a bit to get a feel for how the guns worked.

The result? My first game ever I'm near the top of the board.

uranium_235 · January 2003

Nutter, double post.

relsan · January 2003

I'm sure not many will like this opinion but I think that being a gorge is what helps you to become a good alien...

I don't agree that hands-on learning is slower than having a noob watch an expert. There's a lot of things you don't see when you are not a gorge... so having a guy who's watched gorges is likely to be worse than a guy whose been a gorge and screwed it up a couple times.

When I started out and was learning the game, the gorge was the next closest thing to evolve to so I tried it, just to evolve, just because I could.

But then I saw how you could build things and how building things led to upgrades and defensive setups and then suddenly... *BOOM* a light clicked on, and I understood the entire alien economy! well... not the entire thing but I basically understood how the aliens go from having nothing to having something: i.e. gaining new abilities, gathering resources, expanding territory, and advanced evolution.

These are concepts that aren't fully described in the manual and you don't pick them up as easy by being a skulk, or a lerk. you definitely don't pick them up by being a fade or an onos because by that point you have everything. it's like being born rich but not appreciating it because you never did the hard work yourself to get there, so you don't know what you have!

I believe in the school of hard knocks i.e. let people have the actual physical experience instead of having them take your word for it. I'm sure you all had a time when you were young that people told you that you couldn't do stuff because you were too little but one day you got a chance to do it and you messed it up. BUT in messing it up you LEARNED SOMETHING! And learning it that way was much better than just believing what your older peers told you because YOU had the actual experience of doing it yourself!

Yeah, I know, you guys are tired of noobs and grievers ruining games, I'M WITH YOU on that. But I don't agree that restricting gorges to knowledgable players is beneficial to ns. You do that and we will lose new players, just like Kung Fu Squirrel pointed out about that game GORE. The NS team already is aware of this lesson and I doubt they'll implement a gorge kick.

I don't expect you guys to be completely sympathetic to this opinion... but if you think back to when you were a noob, I think you would be fooling yourself if you really thought you would have been a better gorge a lot quicker if you had watched some really leet gorges in action instead of playing one yourself and messing it up.

With that said, I think this technology would still be great for a server thats designated as being for expert players only. After all, grievers suck.

Mayhem · January 2003

I agree almost completely with relsan. We definetly differ on the hands on experience in some respects. I believe that new players should first off scrap the manual. Leave autohelp on. Learn by watching and when you've played a game or two. Check out the multiple forum posts indicating how to be a better alien and a better gorge. I undestand the new players don't realize they're hurting their team by taking more resources than they should. Heres what I see, one new player making the game less fun by wasting lots of time (game after game in some cases). The marines are loving it! But the experienced NS players are simply switching to marines or giving up on the game completly.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
That's why god created LAN servers and sv_cheats 1. I ALWAYS do this first in EVERY multiplayer game I play... and if you take time in a white-knuckle 10 vs 10 server to find out that 'spit' doesn't do that as much damage as you thought, then I'd kick you right out.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Playing by yourself doesn't seem like much fun but it is very effective and you can build things very quickly.
So you get experience fast and after 2 lan games you should be ready to try it in a real server. I just propose the new players research a little before hopping into such a complex game. A game which can take hours to finish one map. Again the script won't stop them from gorging late in a game when resources are abundant, let them get experience late in the game instead of making the match less fun for the other aliens.

Savant · January 2003

What you're seing here is the essence of need. If there is a NEED for something, and that need is not met, then I can se why people write code like this to meet the need.

The alien gorge is just as important as the marine commander and they should have a method in game to remove gorges. Frankly I'd also like to see a gorge limit, but a way to remove extra gorges is a good start. Maybe the devs will take notice of this and implement something similar.

Regards,

Savant

Rue · January 2003

oh this is just getting silly now , if you have a public server then you are going to get new players and people that havent got a huge IQ so get over it. if a few idiots came on the server and there was one gorge they could just kick that gorge wasting rp's and maening the team no longer has one.
or they could all go gorge and the rest of the team would still not be able to win , IMO if you run a pub server u should admin it rather than giving Joe Blogs any form of rights on the server , the commander kick is good but its part of the mod and is staying.

let the new players learn , if u lose a round THERE ARE LOADS MORE TO GO!!!

/rant

relsan · January 2003

Finally, NS v1.1 has finally been announced. This will be the first client patch for NS, and will be a huge update. Here are some general details, though these certainly aren't all the changes you can expect:

- A couple new maps. Fixes and improvements to existing maps
- HLTV support (to enable HLTV demos for competitive play, and to allow large-scale spectating of high-profile games)
- VALVe Anti-Cheat (VAC) support
- Improved demo playback functionality
- Commander mode improvements (hotgroups, next-marine, select-all, order giving to minimap, etc.)
- Tournament mode changes for CAL support
- Gameplay changes to alien upgrades, to make them all equally viable in the early game <b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>
- Alien resource model changes to speed up the early game and allow multiple gorges to be viable</span></b>
- Bug fixes and exploit fixes (bunny-hopping, ex_ variables, r_draw variables, more)

No release date yet, but its coming.

Mayhem · January 2003

Multiple gorges huh, changing the alien resource model only means the gorges get less percentage of resources than they used to. That said 3 gorges can still fry and alien team and waste a good amount of time. Yea its public servers but why not empower the alien team. I dont mind losing, but like you said its a public server. Which means the marines might take an hour to finish what shouldve been a 20 minute game. The biggest turn off for me is wasting an hour when you have no chance to win. I'm probably not the only experienced ns player who's feeling the same frustrations. I'm just offering servers an alternative to public gameplay.

mojojojo · January 2003

No, changing the alien resource model means changing the alien resource model. This is probably going to be a fairly complicated change, but I hope they're going to try and make it so that the only disadvantage of having multiple gorges is that they're not skulking around...

No idea at all how they could plan to achieve this, but I think thats how things should work.

Zunni · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yes, winning is fun, but so is learning and helping others. Who knows, maybe the newbie you helped learn to Gorge better will play with you again in a month and lead your team to victory. That'd make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Man this sounds so familiar.... I never wanted to play gorge on a team for that very reason... being told my ideas are wrong and not wanting to cost a team the game (single-handedly) made sure I never went gorge.

However, a game a couple of weeks ago, I joined a server and I happened to be in a hive we needed, so I mentioned this to the team and was told to go gorge and save... so I built that hive and was told to stay gorge..

I was "basically" hand-held through the whole thing and followed the suggestions given by the team (building d chambers when they were attacking an outpost, etc) We captured the third hive and won the game..

It felt great to "help" the team and have someone actually take the time to guide me...

Hope he/she reads this and knows that this made my day... (unfort. I can't remember the players name)

Z

DGKHaplo · January 2003

Here are my opinions and suggestions.

I have found that by running a public server you get all kinds of people to join a game. Newbies, pros, moderates.

<b>Problem:</b>Usually at the start of a game the teams are unblanced (cause there are only 3 players one alien and 2 marines) Then within 10 - 20 min we have 2 full teams (10 on 10) and usually the marines have had the advantage from the start. Tried restarting the map but people leave everytime and we are right back to where we started.

<b>Solution:</b> I made my public server a training server. I feel as most do its important to teach people how to play. I was a noob at one time too, thankfully I had my own server so no one could kick me off, infact Im still learning. The only way to get a good game is to set up a "pick up game" or if you have a clan set up a scrim. Then you have a fair start on both sides and the game is a ton more fun. I think we should have more "training servers" out there with some kind of symbol stating that its a training server. That way the noobs have place to go to learn and enjoy the game before **** people off in a regular server. I have notices on my server stating that its a training server and that if you give gorges or commanders a hard time you will be kicked.

I am all about community and want to see NS grow with intelligent mature players unlike what CS has become, however its going to take everyones effort to do this. There are no elites in NS just people that have learned and those who have not yet.

Gorgekick Script

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