Donating Vs Resource Exploit
AOBBlack_Bart
Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10629Members
Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10629Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Fair warning.</div> I'm sick of both of them.
I can live with donating but think it will be better when you only get 1/2 the benefit... (I'd rather see it not working, the res just placed in storage for the next person who joins.) I don't donate, when my res reach 33 the gorge can have the excess, (I am tempted to donate I just don't, its not what the game was/is about in my mind, if it was I think flayra would have allowed me to allocate my res flow of to the gorge so it never even came into my pool. I believe the current way things are done is just so resource are not lost when a player leaves the game.)
But Resource exploiting at the start of the game ruins the game. ( I believe it's fixed in 1.04 but 1.04 is not common in Australia) anyway late night I found my self on a server playing aliens where I saw a player join the khaara side repeatedly and my resources shoot to 33.
(I've discovered how **** off the whole thing was makes me)
I've come up with a Lame ( I admit its lame) answer to this problem.. I gorge, and drop a upgraded chamber, (not defence) on the nearest resource point, moving to each res point closest to the alien hives (cos at this point there are building the second one), continuing this stratergy... I figure the marines are going to need all the help they can get to win against these f-wits.
Next time I'll remember to get screen shots of the games as well to ban the idiot who did the res exploit.
I hate it you've ruined the game for both me and the marines. (last night several of the Khaara players complained and left the server as well.) You know the funny part the cheater actually had the gall (not gaul) to complain over my behavoiur...
Idiots and new players, music and inane chatter I can withstand, cheats well I know how to deal with them now.
I consider this fair warning.. I've had enough.. res hack in a server I'm on and you'll see movement/sensory chambers on res nodes and screen shots sent to admins, if its a sever AOB run you will be banned and the round reset.
[AOB]Black Bart -AOB = Angry Old B.astards.
(fixed a lot of spelling errors and gaul to gall <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can live with donating but think it will be better when you only get 1/2 the benefit... (I'd rather see it not working, the res just placed in storage for the next person who joins.) I don't donate, when my res reach 33 the gorge can have the excess, (I am tempted to donate I just don't, its not what the game was/is about in my mind, if it was I think flayra would have allowed me to allocate my res flow of to the gorge so it never even came into my pool. I believe the current way things are done is just so resource are not lost when a player leaves the game.)
But Resource exploiting at the start of the game ruins the game. ( I believe it's fixed in 1.04 but 1.04 is not common in Australia) anyway late night I found my self on a server playing aliens where I saw a player join the khaara side repeatedly and my resources shoot to 33.
(I've discovered how **** off the whole thing was makes me)
I've come up with a Lame ( I admit its lame) answer to this problem.. I gorge, and drop a upgraded chamber, (not defence) on the nearest resource point, moving to each res point closest to the alien hives (cos at this point there are building the second one), continuing this stratergy... I figure the marines are going to need all the help they can get to win against these f-wits.
Next time I'll remember to get screen shots of the games as well to ban the idiot who did the res exploit.
I hate it you've ruined the game for both me and the marines. (last night several of the Khaara players complained and left the server as well.) You know the funny part the cheater actually had the gall (not gaul) to complain over my behavoiur...
Idiots and new players, music and inane chatter I can withstand, cheats well I know how to deal with them now.
I consider this fair warning.. I've had enough.. res hack in a server I'm on and you'll see movement/sensory chambers on res nodes and screen shots sent to admins, if its a sever AOB run you will be banned and the round reset.
[AOB]Black Bart -AOB = Angry Old B.astards.
(fixed a lot of spelling errors and gaul to gall <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
The only places that have it are .... modified servers, which I don't recommend playing on.
Wait a second...
But seriously, everyone is welcome to at least TRY modified servers. If it's not their thing, then they're also welcome to go back to regular NS (which I've done).
I dont play on NS servers that are modified... (I hope)
Bart
And, resource DONATION is only available on one server, and lots of people here know about it. Just so you don't get confused in the future.
3 that I know of. =)
Spot on. Resource donation.
Resource Exploit is the other one (which I'm not going to explain in case someone out there does not know how to use it) allowing massivce amounts of resources at the start of the game. and its this second one that I will be a complete b.astard on the server if I see it done while I'm playing... It ruins the game. So much so that I stop playing... to top my whole problem off we have very few (ie none that are up any more, the one that was went down) 1.04 servers in Australia, so I have no exploit free servers to go to <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Bart
So to stop an exploiter, you start griefing? Thanks bud, for making the world a safer place for all of us.
*clap clap*
So to stop an exploiter, you start griefing? Thanks bud, for making the world a safer place for all of us.
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Can you honestly say that a game that involves resource exploiting is fun or that there is any way the marins stand 1/2 a chance...
If that's what you enjoy, tough.
If someone Fcuk's up the game for 3/4 of the players then they deserve all the pain this inflicts. why should 1 person get to enjoy destroying the game balance?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm just evening the score...
Bart
(I wonder if you can block a hive by building movement towers into its allocated location....)
So to stop an exploiter, you start griefing? Thanks bud, for making the world a safer place for all of us.
*clap clap*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are no better than them, don't you realize? You're exploiting the same way they are. And besides, the resource "cheat" evens out. Once that skulk that just donated rejoins, he'll be eating resources that he wouldn't have been eating if he were still at full res. Maybe it gives the aliens a brief or subtle advantage, but it's not worth you going around and FURTHER ruining the game.
Please, if you object, leave the server. Don't foul up everybody's fun by being lame, no matter how you justify it.
Please, if you object, leave the server. Don't foul up everybody's fun by being lame, no matter how you justify it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol This Exploit I'm talking about can generate 300+ resources for the Khaara in the first couple of seconds of the game... Enought to build and defend the other 2 hives....
There is nothing subtle about this...
I'm not going to stand around and let whoever does it reap the benifits of this exploit, you call me lame I call 300 res in 2 seconds worthy of revenge.
Bart
Sorry for the people who think what you are doing is amoral. To some I bet it is. I personally think the guys who spam music so I can't hear *&#$ should have a special place in Hell reserved for them.
I think something you are not aware of is that there are 15ish servers that have decent pings in australia (there may be more but allseeingeye does not find them), 1 of these is a 1.04 server (its been offline for the last 4-5 days) 4 of these are run buy a large telcom who ignore the admin side for the most part, 2 are run by a smaller ISP occasionalyl admind and pretty much all ways filled with a LONG queue to join and the rest are empty and unrelaible...
So these exploiters are actually stoping me from playing the game, because I dont have a huge range of servers with sub 150 pings (who speak english) to go to. (and its easy to follow someone and exploit on that server too, I had this happen, we all left and the exploiter followed)
So what am I supposed to do?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> watch the idiot exploiting ruin the game for everyone but himself?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> ( it takes the fun out fo both sides, I dont see that the game can be played out fairly by either side once this exploit has been commited. What is worse you have to be right on the ball to get a screen shot of this exploit being commited, and a screen shot usually dosen't prove much in this case.. )
I respect your opinion most of the time coil, and 2 wrongs dont make a right, and the rest of the team is not at fault.... but if he wants to win at any cost at the expense of all the other players I'm going to do the best I can to destroy the advantage he sought to create.
better yet if I can gorge before him and drop enough upgrade towers to spend all theresources he made in the most usless way I can I'm going to give it a shot... droping stuff on resouce nodes at this point on counters the fact that each player can now automaticly gorge and drop a res tower.
I'll be happy when 1.04 comes out, this is one of 2 exploits that up until now have just made me leave the server. (The other being the Alien with marine skin. (but at least I can get effective screen shots of that to send to the admins...)
Bart
As for any constructive ideas, I would like to insert a "See Also" entry to <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=13872' target='_blank'>this old thread.</a>
Bad idea. Don't 'believe', don't play a game with preconcieved notions of what the game is 'about', just play the game as it is, and deal with what is <a href='http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm' target='_blank'> there</a>.
Let's make some defitions:
"Donating" -- technique whereby aliens can redistribute their individual resource pool to their team. Some servers have specific mods to allow this to function in game instead of having to go to the ready room. Considered by many to be a legitimate tactic.
"Res exploit" -- involves repeatedly 'donating' in the first minute of play then rejoining the alien team to take advantage of the free initial bonus. Very abusive, it can quickly allow an alien team to get hundreds of res points within seconds.
Donating is legitmate, let's make no mistake. In 103 it was the only way the aliens had a chance in many maps within the tournament environment, in 104 it was NOT removed, it was simply reduced in effect. It is a critical tactic, when and who donates, esp in 104, can really impact the game and adds new strategy.
The res exploit is a cheat, since it is uncounterable yet totally removes any chance of a marine victory, regardless of the competence of the marine team.
Another way of looking at is analysis by the definition of a cheat "something which yields play advantage to ONE side only yet is uncounterable by within the game and not part of normal play."
The marines already have resource redistribution - the comm does it all. The aliens have donating. Donating isn't a cheat, even though it gives an advantage to the aliens, it is one the marines posess too.
Res exploit - generates hundreds of res in the first minute. The marines have no such option, yet cannot stop the aliens from doing it at will.
Therefore it is a cheat.
Donating is critical, it is par for the course in any clan war I have seen - and they are deadly even. An even match in my state's clans. Therefore I assume that donation is not even unintended - it is a part of play by design. This view is compounded by its tweaking in 104. You don't tweak bugs, you fix em.
Bad idea. Don't 'believe', don't play a game with preconcieved notions of what the game is 'about', just play the game as it is, and deal with what is
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Me nods, however I still play the style of game I enjoy, I dont donate, If I am a gorge however and someone does donate I dont waste those resources, however if I'm a skulk I'd rather reach my res cap and have the resources flow to the gorge then. This is my opinion you don't have to have it and I dont try to enforce it on anyone else.
<!--QuoteBegin--Daemonlaud+Jan 20 2003, 06:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daemonlaud @ Jan 20 2003, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
"Donating" -- technique whereby aliens can redistribute their individual resource pool to their team. Some servers have specific mods to allow this to function in game instead of having to go to the ready room. Considered by many to be a legitimate tactic.
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This description is correct, I dont consided it to be valid, It was designed to catch the resources of players who were leaving the game, I have read as much from flayra on these forums. Flayras words.
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Jan 8 2003, 03:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Jan 8 2003, 03:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
We experimented with alien resource donation, but I removed it because it meant the aliens were spending their time donating instead of fighting.
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<a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=16329&hl=donation&st=15' target='_blank'>http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/in...=donation&st=15</a>
What you are refering to as a donating technique is infact a method of catching the resources of players who are leaving.
<!--QuoteBegin--Daemonlaud+Jan 20 2003, 06:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daemonlaud @ Jan 20 2003, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Donating is critical, it is par for the course in any clan war I have seen - and they are deadly even. An even match in my state's clans. Therefore I assume that donation is not even unintended - it is a part of play by design. This view is compounded by its tweaking in 104. You don't tweak bugs, you fix em.
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Well its now you who is forming notions of how the game is supposed to be played...
As for bugs that depends on how long you have to code the correction.
I don't play in Clan wars, I prefer public games, as I find there is far more variation, however this statement of yours makes me wonder about the cry of "The Marine rush is so easy in the early game." 1+1=2 as they say. If all the Khaara are dead from donating of course the marines rush is easy. (That is a gross generalisation I may not be able to prove, as I dont play in that environment)
Reagarding the intention of donating, I beileve flayra's statement, as quoted above, sums up his intent..
[AOB]Black Bart
Donating is critical, it is par for the course in any clan war I have seen
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Do that versus our clan and we leave the server. Now lets see.... game starts insta 6 skulks donate 6*10=60 gorge makes 3 DC's *14=42 + a RP = 64. So your team would start with level 3 carapace and two res towers ? **** off.
Nonsense. Tactics develop, the game evolves. If a tactic wins, it gets perpetuated.
>> Now lets see.... game starts insta 6 skulks donate 6*10=60 gorge makes 3 DC's *14=42 + a RP = 64. So your team would start with level 3 carapace and two res towers ? **** off.
Well I don't know about where you play, but round here the simple rule is that no player may join any team in the first minute of play. This is absolutely necessary even if just for someone dropping, as the res exploit is a very real danger.
So, if anyone donates, they are out for the first minute. This balances donate spam, and prevents exploiting in one fell swoop. It is a suicidal team that mass donates - the opposition see that the team has no players for a whole minute and promptly go lay down some smack. Even two or three donaters can totally screw around with spawn timing. So at most you see 2 skulks dropping their res after 2 minutes in, and occasionally later on when we need a lerk or a hive RIGHT NOW.
And no, demoing assures us that noone gets away with anything dodgey - and most tournaments are LANs anyway, where we have scrutineers.
>> Do that versus our clan and we leave the server.
Fine. Bye. If you don't like the *way* we play, whatever, your forfeit on our record is as good as a win. This assumes of course that none of us violated any rules we agreed to beforehand. If we agreed no donations before, we wouldn't do it. But we wouldn't usually play a war under any special clan-specific rules.
EDIT: >> 15ish servers that have decent pings in australia (there may be more but allseeingeye does not find them), 1 of these is a 1.04 server (its been offline for the last 4-5 days)
If you are talking about Oz4ces 104c server, it isn't down it just changed ip and name <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Nonsense. Tactics develop, the game evolves. If a tactic wins, it gets perpetuated.
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Sort of.
That does not make the tactic good or vaild from a game balance issue. I beleive its unbalancing and therefore invalid, something that is partially backed up in Flayras alterations in 1.04...
Tatic's (intentional or unintentionaly inculded in the game) that damage the playability of the game are removed via coding, these are no longer valid.. an example. Its a valid (by code) tactic to build outside the map currently (unintentionally implemented, I beleive) I expect to see this removed in the next client side patch.. (A pre-conceived idea, and could indeed be wrong)
Further just because a tatic is sucessful does not mean it will/should be used, Its a valid tatic to vent camp to kill skulks... One I try to avoid using. (sometimes you need to use/hold vents and wind up in them.) somethings are socialy unacceptable... I find donations to be in that catagory.. but I certainly dont try to force others to have that opinion.
Bart