Is There A Screenshot Of The New Cloak Look?

LaserApa · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">seen one?</div> From the 1.04f changelog:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Cloaking changed so higher levels make it faster to cloak. All levels now make the alien equally invisible (not quite invisible, but very close)
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I worry that my fav upgrade might not be so much fun anymore. I recognise that the devs have all the right in the world to change their mod in any way they see fit. This is no rant to stop them. Im just expressing a wee bit of dismay (thats allowed isnt it?), and humbly ask if anyone has a screenshot showing how the new cloak will look.

Asraniel · January 2003

for me cloaking now is useless.... its so easy to see a cloaked alien. This makes the Sensory chamber more useless... cool

Talesin · January 2003

No real need for a screenshot. Go on a 1.03 server, have someone grab Cloaking 2. That's what all levels of cloaking now look like. And (at least it seemed) Level 3 cloaking doesn't speed up the cloak any... seems to bring it to the v1.03 cloaking speed, whereas Cloak 1 and 2 are just slower.

I know it was meant to bring Sensory up to being a viable first-build item, giving the Level 1 a bit of a leg up... but the lack of an ability to fully cloak now cements Sensory in last place in my build order. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'> Seriously, I haven't seen a server with Cloaking that doesn't have level 3... I mean, Sensory are the _cheapest_ chambers to make, and pretty much are only good as armor in front of OCs, and the occasional tagging of a Marine who's too blind to see it sitting there and actually run into it. Now, about the only really useful Sensory upgrade is Scent of Fear. A real blow to those who liked to take Cloaking/Silence and sneak around the map, assassinating lone Marines, or ambushing a group from the middle of the hallway.

matso · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jan 20 2003, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>No real need for a screenshot. Go on a 1.03 server, have someone grab Cloaking 2.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Ouch ... that's ... not good. Lvl 2 cloak isn't that hard to see. I had hoped for something better. Or it may be that it is slightly more transparant than lvl 2, but it's impossible to see the difference.

This just accentuates the weakness of sensory, in that it has no mid-game usefulness. Once you are attacking a marine position, sensory has no upgrade comparable to carapace or adrenaline. Especially now that lvl 3 sensory won't even cloak you completly.

I have a hard time seeing how to improve the sensory effectivness though. Even if you made it negate MT and track marines in siege-radius through walls (rather than the 20 paces of today), all you are doing is buying a slight early game advantage for a huge late-game disadvantage, ie basically betting you can keep the marines outside all hives until you have three hives up - a bad bet, IMO.

Daemonlaud · January 2003

Ah well sens, gg.

RIP occasional cloaking shock rushes.

It is a little like diablo 2.
You were underused and comparitively underpowered, so let's take away your only edge to ENSURE you stay that way *cough*post-beta druid*cough*.

LaserApa · January 2003

Oh dear... why are they doing this? Was full cloak overpowerd somehow? was it abused somehow? Is this the way to make all chambers equally viable???

Its not going to make me stop playing NS, but Dang... thats a really really bad idea. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> I hope they will change it back before 1.04 final.

Thats my opinion, ill keep it to myself from now on.

Edit:

Maby a middle ground? You have to stay perfectly still, as in not even rotating your view, to be fully invisible. While cloaked and looking around you become 33% visible and when you stop you instantly become invisible again. Hope you understand what i mean... Oh well..

Error404 · January 2003

Possibly they changed it because they got annoyed by the multiple 'Sensory as first Chamber' threads.

matso · January 2003

Nah, I think it was good intentions. In 1.03, you need to pay up 3 sensory chambers for sensory to be useful. Compare that with defense chambers, which adds 50% extra life to skulks from the first chamber. DC-RT is a common build, just because it gives your skulks a really good early game advantage. Going SC-RT is useless in 1.03, as you need three chambers to get anything useful.

However, in 1.04, the roles are reversed. Now, with the skulk carapace nerf, two DC's gives the skulks less life than one DC gives in 1.03 (9/14/18/19 in 1.03, 9/12/13/19 in 1.04), thus making DC not all that useful early game. On the other hand, you get all the usefullness you will get from the sensory from the first chamber, so you can get cloaking really early.

Nice idea. Maybe it would be worth it if it cloaked completly. As it is, the change makes sensory better in the early 5-6 minutes of the game, and even more useless in the midgame, as anyone who can't climb walls or fly will find that they can't really hide using cloak anymore.

TeoH · January 2003

Don't take this change at face value, there will be many other changes to NS happening at the same time which might bring reasoning to the cloaking change. From my point of view, it looks like they are trying to make cloaking more useful at lv1.

I would wager that whatever changes they are planning to make to alien upgrades, will make the potency of a skill at lv1 more important than it currently is. So instead of always comparing lv3 abilities vs. lv3 abilities as we do now (Because its easy to put down 3 def chambers as the 2nd hive goes up and go straight to lv3 upgrades) cloaking might end up going head to head with carapace/adrenaline at lv1. Is lv1 cloaking better than lv1 carapace now that carapace is weakened and cloaking is less visible at lv1?

Don't count out these changes untill you see exactly how the upgrade system will be changed.

Aaron · January 2003

How about cloak of a given level let's you WALK (slowly) and stay cloaked at the level below it? And at level 3, perhaps you can run and still stay cloaked at level 2 cloakage. Now THAT would make it useful.

That, or being less susceptible to turret targetting or motion tracking.

Daemonlaud · January 2003

Teoh mate, I would give up ANY cloaking short of 100% for even ONE extra hit point.

Any cloaking that isn't 100% perfect is totally useless - forcing me to play defensive games without even guaranteed protection? No thankyou.

It was difficult enough to pull off an ambush with old level 3 cloak.

TeoH · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daemonlaud @ Jan 20 2003, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Teoh mate, I would give up ANY cloaking short of 100% for even ONE extra hit point.

Any cloaking that isn't 100% perfect is totally useless</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Well, any cloak that doesn't hide you is obviously worthless, but i'm not quite sure how visible 1.04 cloaking is.

If the cloaking was consistant in its visibility, and it was possible to go unseen (eg. if in a shadowed corner, skulk with 1.04 cloak would be impossible to see) then there is probably a use for it. A cloak that doesn't hide you fully no matter where you stand probably isnt going to hold up against anyone that doesn't have their gamma turned all the way down.

I don't actually recall off the top of my head how visible lv2 cloak is, as the only time anyone ever uses it is at the 3 hive stage with complete cloak. And where does the information that 1.04 will use lv2 cloak come from? I agree with your statement, and if the cloak does not properly hide you then it's useless. But i'm still reserving judgement to see exactly how things turn out.

Ankan · January 2003

There's a 'bug' with Cloak - it allows to move as fast as you can ********************************* <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> I don't feel like posting an exploit/bug so everyone can use it. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'> And level 2 cloak OWNZ! You're not made to hide in the middle of a frecking hallway... Hide at the cealings, or behind any obstacle you may find.

Sorry for my ?b35 spelling <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>. I'm just swedish.

FireStorm · January 2003

it seems to me that the human eye looks at each movement automatically...

so you'll have to be perfectly still (not even move your mouse) if you want the cloaking to be half-useful...

if you turn a few degrees a marine will see movement and will shoot at you...

welcome, uselessness....

WolfWings · January 2003

To be perfectly honest... the cloaking is now totally useless at all levels with the 1.04h change to limit the amount of cloaking you can achieve.

It's impossible to 'hide in the shadows' as anything at all, as anyone can nullify the shadows with their gamma settings already. The new cloaking doesn't help any, because when you're cloaked, if you turn, you still give away your position because of the movement of the model.

Now, if they made your model no longer rotate or shift when cloaked, letting you look around without giving yourself away... it would be slightly useful, but still relatively useless.

I'm also afraid the 'can move slowly while cloaked' feature does not work as possibly intended either, with any amount of forward speed (cl_forwardspeedm, cl_backspeed, cl_sidespeed) from 10 (the minimum needed to actually move) to 1000 (which makes you instantly jet to full run) the cloaking vanishes just as fast.

I'm surprised Flayra didn't just make the cloaking be a slow fade out further and further until it IS true invisibility. Would result in a brighter 'flash' then a slow (or quick with L3 sensory) fade-out to not-there-ism.

coil · January 2003

The problem here is that cloaking as a first-hive upgrade is used to keep the marines contained in their spawn... but the marine spawn is the brightest part of the map, and anything less than total invisibility is going to be visible unless you find a lucky shadow. /: It was well-intended, yes... but cloaking needs to work to 100%. It's not unbalancing at 100% - a scanner sweep is all that's needed to reveal a cloaked skulk.

coil · January 2003

The reason it was changed was an attempt to make a single SC viable. One reason DCs get built first is because a single DC greatly improves your chance of surviving an encounter. In contrast, cloaking really must be level 3 (1.03) to be useful - precisely because it gives 100% invisibility. Flay is trying to make even level-1 cloaking useful... but in doing so, he killed level-3 cloaking. ):

Personally, I would suggest:
Level 1: slow cloak to near-invisibility.
Level 2: slow cloak to invisibility.
Level 3: fast cloak to invisibility.

Ahnteis · January 2003

1 dc is useful for more reasons then just the upgrades it provides. Don't forget the many posts about how the chamber itself needs to be useful.

Amorphous · January 2003

Ugh. Time to make enhanced hivesite my basic sensory tower upgrade... frell...

Rabid_Llama · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Jan 21 2003, 05:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>1 dc is useful for more reasons then just the upgrades it provides. Don't forget the many posts about how the chamber itself needs to be useful.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Okay, an idea for this I just had that might be far too unbalanced, I'm not sure, I'm just going to throw it out anyway <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>
How about sensories keep their current functionality, but also have something new... when an alien is *touching* the chamber, it gives them a sort of temporary wallhack, and they can see marines in a certain radius through the walls (looking all glowy like with Advanced Hivesight). Speaking of which, maybe this would only work in conjunction with Advanced Hivesight, with higher levels of the evolution leading to larger wallh4x radii.
Like I said, I'm not sure how balanced this is. Just an idea <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

coil · January 2003

Sensory is being revamped for 1.1... expect some fun new features. (:

Windelkron · January 2003

I don't get it... weren't they trying to make sensory a better first/second choice?

Seems like all they have done is make it worse. Rarely does an alien team not have 3 of a chamber. (Once the first one is built, they might as well build the other 3). So the new cloaking, according to Talesin, is the same speed as 1.03.... but not as invisible. That's the 1.03 equivalent of 2 Sensories for 3 1.04 sensories.

IMO, I really don't like this. Keep cloaking the way it was before -- it was <b>fine.</b> Sensories just needed some different tweaks ... this is more of a small-scale "nerf" than an "upgrade."

Oh, I just read coil's post.
What's the point of making 1 sensory viable? As I said before, the alien team takes an "all or nothing" approach to chambers -- build 3, or might as well not have 'em. It would be different if the 3 levels of chambers gave different upgrades, but they don't. The point of having only 1 sensory chamber means that you will only have 33% of your potential. My big issue is <b>why would they assume an alien would favor 1 sensory over 3?</b> That goes for any chamber. You said "1 DC helps alot." Well 3 DCs help more, so the alien team is going to build 3.

freeo · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Jan 21 2003, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Sensory is being revamped for 1.1... expect some fun new features. (:</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
can't wait! hurry it up already.

Rabid_Llama · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Jan 21 2003, 05:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Sensory is being revamped for 1.1... expect some fun new features. (:</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Flayra needs to hurry up with 1.1. The suspense is killing me! >_<
(Yes, it IS Flayra's job to keep us forum peons happy. Didn't you know that? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> )

Asraniel · January 2003

coil.. you did a big mistake *g*.. tell us some funny new features :-) ou, i know you will not tell us them... but.. i feel like i was waiting for 1.0, every little peace of information is interesting and we will start make rumours, and all are happy or not and then 1.1 will be here and we already know every little change and have perfect strategies... hehe... give us informations (also about the new lerk... im interested what happens to my lovely little baby)

FireStorm · January 2003

new fun features? what new fun features? 10% invisibility with 3 chambers? :]
it would be fun for the marines...

Ph0enix · January 2003

I've been sensing a growing antcipation for 1.1 for a while now. I can't wait personally <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

QuietMischief1 · January 2003

tha'ts the real problem, as long as you don't move, you can stay pretty well hidden judging from what you have as a backdrop to your alien, and I mean with out cloaking

more then once I've seen a Skulk run right by me simply because I wasn't moving and had the right backdrop to not be spotted easily, and that's as a MArine

and as a Gorge, you always find some obscure spot to hide in that blends well with your sexy behind

And also, level 2 cloaking is .... decent ..... but it isn't useful when compared against the 9 LMG shots it'll take to kill you

Just stand sideways and it's harder to be seen, it's when you look right at the marine he can spot the outline and just "pop in yo ****"

Is There A Screenshot Of The New Cloak Look?

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