IF a natural selection 2 is ever made for retail there would be 2 engines worth using:
Doom 3 (nuff said) Serious Sam (much cheaper, kept up to date, enormous maps, multiple gravity effects for really fun scenarios....)
Only 2 engines that have impressed me of late. Serious sam SE is great fun in Co-op lan play and the engines ability to do outdoor scenes with hundreds of monsters made Doom 1/2 Nightmare mode feel like a picnic.
Imagine a skulk -> marine battle in the cylinder pipe with the floor bound gravity in the Mayan campaign. That place was insane!
Yep, Serious Sam: SE is a GREAT engine. But because of the more popular games taking the spotlight, not many people are contributing to the engine. IE: UT2k3, Doom3, Quake3.. Nobody really cares about Serious Sam.
I do believe (I may be off) but the Serious sam engine can handle levels as big as 2km.. that's freakishly huge...
I love Serious Sam, ESPECIALLY the first encounter, I used to be very active in the community, but I am pretty much depressed a lot, so I'm not active there, any, really.
If you wanna know more about serious sam, check it out here:
www.seriouszone.com or the official developer site( not updated a lot): www.croteam.com
Ah, and supposedly a new patch will fix the netcode a LOT, so just wait for it.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Actually, the biggest problem I had with BF1942 was finding a server that didn't lag like crazy. Yeah, when you find the one, maybe two servers you can play on, it's dynamite. But unless you get one of those good ones, even on 1.5m DSL, you get to watch a slideshow.
If anything, I'd like to see the Serious Engine combined with HL's netcode.
Oh... and for those thinking SS can run on 'low end' machines, remember: Low-end for HL is a P-200 with no graphics accellerator. Some even play it on P-133s. NS may need an OpenGL/D3D vid card to avoid the software renderer issues, but can still theoretically run on a machine with a processor that slow. Last I checked, SS refused to even load the chaingun intro on a system with those specs. SS is pretty, and loads of fun to run around whomping on stuff in extra-pretty DOOM-fashion, but it isn't set up to work on the older hardware that some people still use. (Such as my guests who come over and are treated to using the spare machine.. a P-233 with a Voodoo 1 passthrough)
I like the HL engine, and I love NS. NS is fine how it is now, and good graphics don't make a game good. I also understand that HL has a huge install base and you can run it on almost any computer or internet connection. BUT, why doesn't someone try and make a mod for the SS2 engine or Unreal 2003 that will make people want to buy that game. I really hope the HL engine isn't the number one engine 5 years from now. I think it's time to move forward. Maybe HL2 will come out before the next millenium and we'll have great netcode, gameplay and graphics all in one. I do believe it's possible to do on an engine other than HL. I'd do itmeyself, but I'm in college and have no free time and I don't know how to make a mod.
<!--QuoteBegin--SniperSkunk+Jan 21 2003, 05:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SniperSkunk @ Jan 21 2003, 05:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However a recent patch is testing out new Client/server netcode which is working MUCH better. Playing it feels more like BF1942 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> It's good code.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Every time I play BF1942 (even with 20- pings) the net code is crap. I dun get it...you gotta lead your target by a mile when he's within knife range of you.
My personal theory is that after 4-5 years, the older computers become obsolete, and new ones are bought. All we need now is an earth-shattering, best selling, best game ever, that everyone and their mother's will want to play. Once enough copies are sold, and enough amatur developers exposed, something will be modded, and it will have to appeal to non-gamers as well, and act as an in-between for gamers and non-gamers.
"The Sims" probably has one hell of a lot of copies sold, just because so many people play it, of all ages, from a 9 year old sibling to a 50 year old, tech-savvy grandma. Good luck making a good mod for it though.
Once you have an in-between though, big things happen. Look at c-strike, and the retail explosion. We need something with the anticipation of Warcraft 3/Zelda64, the overall appeal of The Sims, the skill cap and interactivity of Tribes 2, the depth of Deus Ex, and the replayability of the best of RTS, with an easy to mod SDK, with the netcode and client prediction of CS. Then, and only then will something take Half-Life's crown and leave it in the dust. Then the exodus will begin from half life. Older systems become new, and run the new game, Counter-Strike and the beloved NS are left to a handfull of revelers, and the new game is king for another 5 years, until something finally comes along to de-throne it.
The second coming may be in the form of a smaller-scale version of Planetside, or Deus Ex2, or Doom 3. The third generation will come from one of the teens playing c-strike now, that learn C++ in their spare time, and make a game. Maybe someone on these boards.
theres over 10,000 serious sam owners, its a fun game, and great engine, my mod site again is <a href='http://exstruck.seriouszone.com' target='_blank'>http://exstruck.seriouszone.com</a> sorry the site didnt work. its not close to release but read the info on it, its a wicked idea, in my eyes anyways <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> my team needs help... maybe theres a modeler or programmer around here willing to give a new engine a try <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you like the SS engine then that is good for you. Go ahead and write your own mod for it. If it picks up and other people enjoy the mod, great.
An engine is simply a component that you build your mod upon, it doesn't matter which engine you use as long as you can write a fun mod with it. NS has done just that, kudos to Flayra.
If you want to write an NS like mod on another engine that's fine, just remember that Natural Selection is copyrighted, Flayra owns it. So unless you have his prior permission, you shouldn't use the name "Natural Selection".
It is ok if you don't have a huge user base for the engine, a great mod will sell the game. Just like CS did for Half Life.
Wait till you see the real Serious Sam 2 (There was the first encounter and the second encounter released already for ss1) with all it's new features.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seriously! - Not much is known about Serious Sam 2 yet, aside from the fact that it's a completely new game with a completely re-written Serious Engine. What new features can we expect from the new engine, and how will it compare with other game engines such as the new Unreal Engine and the Doom III engine?
Alen Ladavac - Well... yes, you are right. We've mentioned a few times that Serious Sam 2 will be riding on top of a completely new engine, and that's true. But we didn't feel like it was the right time to reveal what exactly will be under the hood. And that time has not come yet. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You can be sure of two things. First, that we will continue to maintain our direction of pushing the limits of not only technological features but also of sizes and numbers. And second, that the tools and mod-support will be even more powerful and simpler to use than before. And of course, we'll have shaders. Lots of them, and of all kinds.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think NS needs to get popular as it's a great mod. Half-Life has a great number of online players and it's integrated voice chat if very useful for NS. The Serious Engine as of now needs more work and there are many more skilled mappers/coders/modellers for Half-Life, so the mod can be worked-on much faster. I would like to see NS on UT2k3 with it's customizable mutators, good fan base, good netcode, and nice physics (now let's see what happens after you shoot that skulk with your hmg).
Young learner-san will soon learn that there is far more to choosing engine than snazzyness! It require almost Fam like brain to make decision on engine!
Wise up grasshopper!
-Edit- And the fact they would have to remake and recode a huge amount of material. Making an engine jump isn't a great idea. Besides, Halflife is still the best modding engine around. It's got the support, the talent, the players. There's nothing to beat it. Yet.
Ok guys. I am very fond of Serious Sam and I am a current member on the Seriously forums so Don't take this the wrong way. Although the SS engine may have some cool features and all it has its flaws as all engines do. I personally believe any "realistic" mods would be hard to create with the current Serious engine. I know because I have attempted mapping with the serious editor and I must honestly say its a lot harder to use than Worldcraft. making models is a whole other challenge since they must go through a tedious process through the serious modeler where you have to apply the skin and all. I'm not to advanced on modding so I cannot really give my full opinions. Although the capability of creating landscapes is endless, the actual brushwork "building" and vertex manipulation is more tedious and sometimes frustrating since it is common to get holes where some vertexes meet and such. Also, as far as I know, the serious sam engine doesn't have "Real" directional lighting. For example, the shadow thats cast on the landscapes in Serious Sam are simply a texture layer and isn't really the shadow cast by the sun entity. There is a tedious process in order to get pleasing shadows on landscapes. Also despite what people are saying in here, Croteam does update and all but the community usually tends to get by on its own, and many attempts at pimping SS has failed on Croteams part besides the X-box release and the new SS gold coming out. In order to get unreal tournament architecture in a serious sam level, most of the architecture has to be created with models, and this is still only being learned about by a few dedicated community members. Also, super coding from scratch would have to be created in order to get realistic AI for mods since SS enemies are the basic "I see you , kill you" kinda AI and are not sophisticated enough for a complicated mod, although I should not jinx this since some of the current mods are complicated and involve some complicated physics and coding.
There are a handful of Mods being created for SS including:
Earth special forces Exstruck Starship troopers Final strike Iron Glove Misdirected Hostility Sister ****(hehe I guess that word gets filtered <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->) Zoogression City under hand BTBA Cranked Arrow Zavtra Kinfe Arena IDF (Prob missed a few) The only problem is that a lot of these mods are dying, dead, or having lack of progress. The SS mod community is kinda lacking in growth or development.
I might add that a dev team for a game being made with the ss engine "cleric" just recently did an engine switch to an unknown engine due to complications with the ss engine. There basic explanation for the move was that they did not get enough support from Croteam after paying for the engine along with some other small things like real-time lighting (like the hl flashlight) apparently the lighting in SS either made lighting distorted or not in grasp of what the Dev team had in mind. Also as someone stated above me, the SS engine can handle an assortment of systems wither you have the top o the line system to the low end user. You can alter the settings to fit your performance level, however! Lower end machines will suffer once a hundred monsters come running on the screen at the same time. Thanks to LOD coding hundreds of enemies on the screen is possible with the Serious engine although this does not mean your computer necessarily will handle this well. It is true that the SS engine has a bunch of neat features, the main problem is that mere members like me are pretty much running the show at seriously. Most of the time "we" members have to discover how to use the engine on our own and this makes mod making difficult. Like I said, we have a handful of dedicated people on Seriously discovering new things each day along with small helpful programs to aid in mod creation, but other than that its been slow in development as I stated. The upcoming SS2 engine is supposedly going to rock the gaming communities world and I hope it does because behind the glamor of the serious engine is a lot of work and persistence and a lot of the time I just don't feel motivated enough to touch the very buggy editor and its tools. In worldcraft (Hammer) i simply select a brush and split it with the cutting tool with the nice icon to aid me, but in the SSeditor I frequently get holes in my map and polygons get distorted in frustrating ways since I find the views hard to work from. Another main gripe of mine towards the SSeditor is the brush grouping, layers, world-brushes, whatever.
For example, whenever you create a new brush you have to decide right then wither that brush become attached to the main world brush or set to a different layer. Once you join a brush with another one it is impossible to un-join them. Ug. You won't understand this unless you have actually worked in the editor. Many of the current mappers for SS have to make multiple saves for each map not because of it crashing like hammer, but because later they may not be able to change a part of their map, counting on older saves to make changes. Although an easy suggestion would be to make every brush made as a separate layer, this simply is not the case since the lighting on separate crushes seem to be "different" than normal main world brushes and because mipping is a pain with separate brushes. For example, if you walk a distance from a separately added brush it will tend to become jagged and seem as though you need a new graphic card but when t is joined with the main world brush it will not be jagged, arg but the you cannot change that brush with ease anymore since you cannot un-join brushes! Same with brushes made into entities, you will get the jagged effect. The only way around this is through a tedious process of MIP mapping or LOD for brushes. I still don't understand MIP mapping to this day.
Anyway I hope you read all of this time waster post and I hope this doesn't give me a bad reputation at the Serious Forums for that was not intended by my post. I simply saw a bunch of people in excitement over the idea of NS being created out of the Serious engine but I must tell my opinion for the engine. Maybe SS2 and its engine will be better with some of these things. I believe the SS engine is strong with outdoor environments while it lacks capability with urban detailed brushwork, unless it is a model. I can point you to a thread showing the newly discovered model approach to making detailed SSengine maps but you will see that the process was not easy and even the experienced will have a hard time understanding what the process is. Arg cannot find it.
A game being developed "Alpha Black Zero" is being made with the SS engine, but you will see from this image that the actual brushwork geometry wise is kinda bare on the bridge, and thats because of what I stated about complex detail in brushes. Most detail architecture as I stated will probably come from models with skins. <img src='http://213.206.89.101/host/playlogicgames/games/alphablackzero/images/thumb/lrg/4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
But the terrains of course will be <img src='http://213.206.89.101/host/playlogicgames/games/alphablackzero/images/thumb/lrg/2.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'> UNF!
I think the Starship troopers mod is the most ideally set for the SS engine since thousands of aliens will be able to be rendered at the same time and large desert like landscapes with transport vehicles can be made. As for an "NS" hallway corridor like theme, The SS engine is not ideal for this. Anyway I'm finally done on this long post and I could only have written it if I was fond of Serious Sam which I am. Most of the statements I made come in most part fact but I am not the most 1337 SS mapper, I don't even count as one. I'm just stating what I believe and this post in no way threatens my friendship in the SS community for we are pretty laid back and an overall cool off-topic hangout. a large majority of our forum members are made up of people who have never even played Serious sam <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh and this is what I meant. This is a test for a SS map with models made using the SKA and modelling tools, but a very tedious process. Looks cool for a first time model mapping test
Now compare this with the same mapbeing made with brushes alone in the editor, BLEAH! fugly. <a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/arg/nom2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.planethalflife.com/arg/nom2.jpg</a>
This is what I meant by nice architecture having to be created by models and not by simply cutting brushes and pulling vertexes like in worldcraft because frankly its ugly trying to make a NS map without models in the SSeditor. And I will state this again, this is only an experiment and is just being learned in depth by a dedicated forum member. All of the SS maps look a bit cartoony and this is because their isn't really a map made yet that looks reallife.
I hope you understand this and look back at at some of these SS screenshots and realize the brushwork is actually very simple and special effects and higher quality textures cover up the rather bland ss "indoor" maps. <a href='http://www.seriouszone.com/viewimage.php?/images/ssse/hole/hole_18.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.seriouszone.com/viewimage.php?/...ole/hole_18.jpg</a> <a href='http://www.seriouszone.com/images/ssse/thecitadel/thecitadel_5.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.seriouszone.com/images/ssse/the...hecitadel_5.jpg</a>
I'm sure some bright people will make the power of the Sengine better though as the model test proved to do. ANd again people this is just my opinion and I don't work for Croteam so I don't know the vast possibilities with the engine. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Although the Serious Sam engine is quite a powerful one, it's not quite suited for NS's theme. NS is a more of a "close quarters" game then a "You need a lot of open space" game. SS is really more suited for LARGE SCALE kinda mods.
woah woah, saying the new SS2 netcode will be good is one thing, but saying it will be like bf 1942 is a completely different thing altogether. bf 1942 can go upwards of 50 players for server.....ns/hl really max out around 20. I would expect the new ss2 netcode to be maybe as good as hl's, but I wouldn't even be too sure of that.
<!--QuoteBegin--MithStrifer+Jan 21 2003, 12:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MithStrifer @ Jan 21 2003, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not sure, but will people be able to make mods for CS: CZ? Since it comes with a better engine?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> From the what I've seen of the screenshots, Counter-Strike: Condition Zero looks to be using the same engine. Maybe the models have more polys, but man does it look *dated*.
As far as Natural Selection goes, I think it was a good choice to use the Half-Life engine, because of the popularity alone. If there is ever a sequel to NS (and there is a lot of room for a sequel in it's very-cool and well-designed universe), then I'd suggest modding another highly popular game. This is pretty far in the future, so who knows what will be out then... maybe even DNF?
Of course, there is also the possibility that NS2 might be a stand-alone retail product.
Serious sam was cute, but even on a LAN the the game lagalicious. I have a feeling once Steam is locked down, they will start making incremental improvements to Half-Life engine until they get their next big game out. Then, if they are smart(and I think they are) they will try to make it easy for their current mod teams to migrate to the new engine. Otherwise they are going to lose a lot of their user base. If all goes well, NS will be able to migrate the new engine with very little pain.( I know, I know, wishful thinking =)
Comments
If we combine the netcode from BF and the engine from SS2 (like they're doing right now): We have a winnah!
Let's dump this BF1942 bit, I grow tired of it.
Doom 3 (nuff said)
Serious Sam (much cheaper, kept up to date, enormous maps, multiple gravity effects for really fun scenarios....)
Only 2 engines that have impressed me of late. Serious sam SE is great fun in Co-op lan play and the engines ability to do outdoor scenes with hundreds of monsters made Doom 1/2 Nightmare mode feel like a picnic.
Imagine a skulk -> marine battle in the cylinder pipe with the floor bound gravity in the Mayan campaign. That place was insane!
I do believe (I may be off) but the Serious sam engine can handle levels as big as 2km.. that's freakishly huge...
I love Serious Sam, ESPECIALLY the first encounter, I used to be very active in the community, but I am pretty much depressed a lot, so I'm not active there, any, really.
If you wanna know more about serious sam, check it out here:
www.seriouszone.com
or the official developer site( not updated a lot): www.croteam.com
Ah, and supposedly a new patch will fix the netcode a LOT, so just wait for it.
If anything, I'd like to see the Serious Engine combined with HL's netcode.
Oh... and for those thinking SS can run on 'low end' machines, remember: Low-end for HL is a P-200 with no graphics accellerator. Some even play it on P-133s. NS may need an OpenGL/D3D vid card to avoid the software renderer issues, but can still theoretically run on a machine with a processor that slow. Last I checked, SS refused to even load the chaingun intro on a system with those specs. SS is pretty, and loads of fun to run around whomping on stuff in extra-pretty DOOM-fashion, but it isn't set up to work on the older hardware that some people still use. (Such as my guests who come over and are treated to using the spare machine.. a P-233 with a Voodoo 1 passthrough)
Every time I play BF1942 (even with 20- pings) the net code is crap. I dun get it...you gotta lead your target by a mile when he's within knife range of you.
"The Sims" probably has one hell of a lot of copies sold, just because so many people play it, of all ages, from a 9 year old sibling to a 50 year old, tech-savvy grandma. Good luck making a good mod for it though.
Once you have an in-between though, big things happen. Look at c-strike, and the retail explosion. We need something with the anticipation of Warcraft 3/Zelda64, the overall appeal of The Sims, the skill cap and interactivity of Tribes 2, the depth of Deus Ex, and the replayability of the best of RTS, with an easy to mod SDK, with the netcode and client prediction of CS. Then, and only then will something take Half-Life's crown and leave it in the dust. Then the exodus will begin from half life. Older systems become new, and run the new game, Counter-Strike and the beloved NS are left to a handfull of revelers, and the new game is king for another 5 years, until something finally comes along to de-throne it.
The second coming may be in the form of a smaller-scale version of Planetside, or Deus Ex2, or Doom 3. The third generation will come from one of the teens playing c-strike now, that learn C++ in their spare time, and make a game.
Maybe someone on these boards.
An engine is simply a component that you build your mod upon, it doesn't matter which engine you use as long as you can write a fun mod with it. NS has done just that, kudos to Flayra.
If you want to write an NS like mod on another engine that's fine, just remember that Natural Selection is copyrighted, Flayra owns it. So unless you have his prior permission, you shouldn't use the name "Natural Selection".
It is ok if you don't have a huge user base for the engine, a great mod will sell the game. Just like CS did for Half Life.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seriously! - Not much is known about Serious Sam 2 yet, aside from the fact that it's a completely new game with a completely re-written Serious Engine. What new features can we expect from the new engine, and how will it compare with other game engines such as the new Unreal Engine and the Doom III engine?
Alen Ladavac - Well... yes, you are right. We've mentioned a few times that Serious Sam 2 will be riding on top of a completely new engine, and that's true. But we didn't feel like it was the right time to reveal what exactly will be under the hood. And that time has not come yet. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You can be sure of two things. First, that we will continue to maintain our direction of pushing the limits of not only technological features but also of sizes and numbers. And second, that the tools and mod-support will be even more powerful and simpler to use than before. And of course, we'll have shaders. Lots of them, and of all kinds.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.seriouszone.com/cms/articles/1_1.php' target='_blank'>http://www.seriouszone.com/cms/articles/1_1.php</a>
I think NS needs to get popular as it's a great mod. Half-Life has a great number of online players and it's integrated voice chat if very useful for NS. The Serious Engine as of now needs more work and there are many more skilled mappers/coders/modellers for Half-Life, so the mod can be worked-on much faster. I would like to see NS on UT2k3 with it's customizable mutators, good fan base, good netcode, and nice physics (now let's see what happens after you shoot that skulk with your hmg).
It require almost Fam like brain to make decision on engine!
Wise up grasshopper!
-Edit-
And the fact they would have to remake and recode a huge amount of material. Making an engine jump isn't a great idea. Besides, Halflife is still the best modding engine around. It's got the support, the talent, the players. There's nothing to beat it. Yet.
There are a handful of Mods being created for SS including:
Earth special forces
Exstruck
Starship troopers
Final strike
Iron Glove
Misdirected Hostility
Sister ****(hehe I guess that word gets filtered <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Zoogression
City under hand
BTBA
Cranked Arrow Zavtra
Kinfe Arena
IDF
(Prob missed a few)
The only problem is that a lot of these mods are dying, dead, or having lack of progress. The SS mod community is kinda lacking in growth or development.
I might add that a dev team for a game being made with the ss engine "cleric" just recently did an engine switch to an unknown engine due to complications with the ss engine. There basic explanation for the move was that they did not get enough support from Croteam after paying for the engine along with some other small things like real-time lighting (like the hl flashlight) apparently the lighting in SS either made lighting distorted or not in grasp of what the Dev team had in mind. Also as someone stated above me, the SS engine can handle an assortment of systems wither you have the top o the line system to the low end user. You can alter the settings to fit your performance level, however! Lower end machines will suffer once a hundred monsters come running on the screen at the same time. Thanks to LOD coding hundreds of enemies on the screen is possible with the Serious engine although this does not mean your computer necessarily will handle this well. It is true that the SS engine has a bunch of neat features, the main problem is that mere members like me are pretty much running the show at seriously. Most of the time "we" members have to discover how to use the engine on our own and this makes mod making difficult. Like I said, we have a handful of dedicated people on Seriously discovering new things each day along with small helpful programs to aid in mod creation, but other than that its been slow in development as I stated. The upcoming SS2 engine is supposedly going to rock the gaming communities world and I hope it does because behind the glamor of the serious engine is a lot of work and persistence and a lot of the time I just don't feel motivated enough to touch the very buggy editor and its tools. In worldcraft (Hammer) i simply select a brush and split it with the cutting tool with the nice icon to aid me, but in the SSeditor I frequently get holes in my map and polygons get distorted in frustrating ways since I find the views hard to work from. Another main gripe of mine towards the SSeditor is the brush grouping, layers, world-brushes, whatever.
For example, whenever you create a new brush you have to decide right then wither that brush become attached to the main world brush or set to a different layer. Once you join a brush with another one it is impossible to un-join them. Ug. You won't understand this unless you have actually worked in the editor. Many of the current mappers for SS have to make multiple saves for each map not because of it crashing like hammer, but because later they may not be able to change a part of their map, counting on older saves to make changes. Although an easy suggestion would be to make every brush made as a separate layer, this simply is not the case since the lighting on separate crushes seem to be "different" than normal main world brushes and because mipping is a pain with separate brushes. For example, if you walk a distance from a separately added brush it will tend to become jagged and seem as though you need a new graphic card but when t is joined with the main world brush it will not be jagged, arg but the you cannot change that brush with ease anymore since you cannot un-join brushes! Same with brushes made into entities, you will get the jagged effect. The only way around this is through a tedious process of MIP mapping or LOD for brushes. I still don't understand MIP mapping to this day.
Anyway I hope you read all of this time waster post and I hope this doesn't give me a bad reputation at the Serious Forums for that was not intended by my post. I simply saw a bunch of people in excitement over the idea of NS being created out of the Serious engine but I must tell my opinion for the engine. Maybe SS2 and its engine will be better with some of these things. I believe the SS engine is strong with outdoor environments while it lacks capability with urban detailed brushwork, unless it is a model. I can point you to a thread showing the newly discovered model approach to making detailed SSengine maps but you will see that the process was not easy and even the experienced will have a hard time understanding what the process is. Arg cannot find it.
A game being developed "Alpha Black Zero" is being made with the SS engine, but you will see from this image that the actual brushwork geometry wise is kinda bare on the bridge, and thats because of what I stated about complex detail in brushes. Most detail architecture as I stated will probably come from models with skins. <img src='http://213.206.89.101/host/playlogicgames/games/alphablackzero/images/thumb/lrg/4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
But the terrains of course will be <img src='http://213.206.89.101/host/playlogicgames/games/alphablackzero/images/thumb/lrg/2.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'> UNF!
I think the Starship troopers mod is the most ideally set for the SS engine since thousands of aliens will be able to be rendered at the same time and large desert like landscapes with transport vehicles can be made. As for an "NS" hallway corridor like theme, The SS engine is not ideal for this. Anyway I'm finally done on this long post and I could only have written it if I was fond of Serious Sam which I am. Most of the statements I made come in most part fact but I am not the most 1337 SS mapper, I don't even count as one. I'm just stating what I believe and this post in no way threatens my friendship in the SS community for we are pretty laid back and an overall cool off-topic hangout. a large majority of our forum members are made up of people who have never even played Serious sam <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/arg/sehrgut2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.planethalflife.com/arg/sehrgut2.jpg</a>
Now compare this with the same mapbeing made with brushes alone in the editor, BLEAH! fugly. <a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/arg/nom2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.planethalflife.com/arg/nom2.jpg</a>
This is what I meant by nice architecture having to be created by models and not by simply cutting brushes and pulling vertexes like in worldcraft because frankly its ugly trying to make a NS map without models in the SSeditor. And I will state this again, this is only an experiment and is just being learned in depth by a dedicated forum member. All of the SS maps look a bit cartoony and this is because their isn't really a map made yet that looks reallife.
I hope you understand this and look back at at some of these SS screenshots and realize the brushwork is actually very simple and special effects and higher quality textures cover up the rather bland ss "indoor" maps.
<a href='http://www.seriouszone.com/viewimage.php?/images/ssse/hole/hole_18.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.seriouszone.com/viewimage.php?/...ole/hole_18.jpg</a>
<a href='http://www.seriouszone.com/images/ssse/thecitadel/thecitadel_5.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.seriouszone.com/images/ssse/the...hecitadel_5.jpg</a>
I'm sure some bright people will make the power of the Sengine better though as the model test proved to do. ANd again people this is just my opinion and I don't work for Croteam so I don't know the vast possibilities with the engine. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
NS is a more of a "close quarters" game then a "You need a lot of open space" game.
SS is really more suited for LARGE SCALE kinda mods.
From the what I've seen of the screenshots, Counter-Strike: Condition Zero looks to be using the same engine. Maybe the models have more polys, but man does it look *dated*.
As far as Natural Selection goes, I think it was a good choice to use the Half-Life engine, because of the popularity alone. If there is ever a sequel to NS (and there is a lot of room for a sequel in it's very-cool and well-designed universe), then I'd suggest modding another highly popular game. This is pretty far in the future, so who knows what will be out then... maybe even DNF?
Of course, there is also the possibility that NS2 might be a stand-alone retail product.
i like ssam se and the org but i don't think marines and ailens fighting would be good for ssam.
will try to make it easy for their current mod teams to migrate to the new engine. Otherwise they are going to lose a lot of their user base. If all goes well, NS will be able to migrate the new engine with very little pain.( I know, I know, wishful thinking =)
Prosp