Tactical Retreat Orders
HeXetic
Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12423Members
Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12423Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Hard to get 'rines to follow them?</div> We were playing on ns_nancy (I think I've gotten the hang of the map names by now: nancy is the one with the "noname", engine room, and subspace array hives, right?) and our commander dropped out. Nobody volunteered, so I offered to take command (though I'd only done so before playing with my rocket crowbots) and nobody objected...
Anyways, we were doing okay, had some turrets at noname and were building turrets at engine room, when, over the course of several minutes, noname went down. They were probably building a hive there, because they were really (and I mean really) pounding on my poor 'rines at engine room.
A scan of subspace revealed no apparent defenses in the route between marine base camp and the hive; their gorges were probably too busy gradually "chambering in" engine room.
Engine room had 6 turrets, including a siege, so it was obvious to me that the aliens weren't going to take it very quickly. I decided the best plan would be to have all (or almost all) of my 'rines phase back to base and then head out to attack the hive at subspace in the hope taking the hive and taking the pressure off of engine room and noname.
Over the voicecom and with the use of waypoints I urged my rines to come back to base to stock up for a raid on subspace... but nobody complied! They all kept rushing to enine room and engaging the piles of kharaa and chambers there, without the proper weapons to deal with them (we were strapped for cash).
I know many commanders have trouble getting their marines to follow orders, but I would expect that firmly saying "come back to base, drop everything at engine room" (etc.) and setting waypoints to subspace would get some people to comply. Is frontiersman pride at work when marines refuse to tactically retreat? Anybody have any similar experiences? Anybody think I was doing the wrong thing, and that my marines were doing the right thing to ignore me? We lost eventually; they built up around engine room and by the time they waxed the phase, we had fades containing us on the bridge.
Anyways, we were doing okay, had some turrets at noname and were building turrets at engine room, when, over the course of several minutes, noname went down. They were probably building a hive there, because they were really (and I mean really) pounding on my poor 'rines at engine room.
A scan of subspace revealed no apparent defenses in the route between marine base camp and the hive; their gorges were probably too busy gradually "chambering in" engine room.
Engine room had 6 turrets, including a siege, so it was obvious to me that the aliens weren't going to take it very quickly. I decided the best plan would be to have all (or almost all) of my 'rines phase back to base and then head out to attack the hive at subspace in the hope taking the hive and taking the pressure off of engine room and noname.
Over the voicecom and with the use of waypoints I urged my rines to come back to base to stock up for a raid on subspace... but nobody complied! They all kept rushing to enine room and engaging the piles of kharaa and chambers there, without the proper weapons to deal with them (we were strapped for cash).
I know many commanders have trouble getting their marines to follow orders, but I would expect that firmly saying "come back to base, drop everything at engine room" (etc.) and setting waypoints to subspace would get some people to comply. Is frontiersman pride at work when marines refuse to tactically retreat? Anybody have any similar experiences? Anybody think I was doing the wrong thing, and that my marines were doing the right thing to ignore me? We lost eventually; they built up around engine room and by the time they waxed the phase, we had fades containing us on the bridge.
Comments
Sure, a tactical retreat may gain the upper hand, but if your marines are having a blast going toe-to-toe with the aliens, I usually just let them.
Once they're dead and back at base, THEN I get on their backs about moving to the waypoint and following orders. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Tell the marines there to "hold out and try not to die, back away from the offence chambers! retreat out of view!!".
The second the aliens will be considering it 'safe' to get in and build the hive them turrets are mearly slowing down the skulks by holding their attention for a few seconds. If you consider the skulks being slowed down a worth while goal, leave the turrets. If your strapped cycle the turrets and TF aswell.
If its any consolation you made very much the right stratigic decision, MANY commanders will get 'locked' onto a tactic and all too few are prepaired to 'wing it'.
Attack where your enemy is weak.
and ALWAYS attack.
BlueGhost
"Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the only rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you."
- The old man Enders Game.
Picture the scene, you're short on cash, you've sneaked a marine outside their base and got up a phase, a quick peek round the corner shows the hive completly free of offence chambers.
Yet can you persuade your marines to walk round and blow it away?
'Com we need siege' 'com place the TF here !'
*sigh*
BlueGhost
Thanks for the assurance that I made the right decision, BlueGhost, but I have to point out that there <i>was</i> a siege cannon there, and it was wailing away. If I'd pulled back my marines, would the aliens really have considered it "safe"? There were a good 6 or 7 turrets there (one guy was building them as fast as I could drop 'em, before I realised we should pull back). I wanted to pull back not because we were going to lose the area (I thought we could hold it), but because the aliens had fortified just outside the area so much that I didn't want my marines rushing out to die the chambers while they skirmished with the skulks.
Though I agree on pubbies its incredibly difficult to stop your marines trying to move out befor they're ready <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->. (and when they are ready persuading them to move out from the right location is tricky too ho hum).
The 'tough' decision is deciding if you CAN hold that location, if you cannot hold the two hive locations and the aliens are good they'll notice this, let you sit there while they WOL off the hive they hold and the hives you hold (so when the phase falls you cant re-enforce it attal) and then throw everything they've got at one of your installations, if that installation falls you've now got to move through huge walls of lame to have any hope of salvaging the situation.
Personally I stay away from siegeing at locations to hold them from offencive gorges, one GL will be just as effective as two sieges (totalling 100 res minimum) and well when you're upgraded for the GL its a short step to getting JP HMGers into their first hive, you only need to send about 3 good people on that mission.
I'm considering ALWAYS going for JP as it allows you to curcumvent WOL and get a phase in a good place, and HA/HMG is too easy to remove (I've had a squad of 7 HA/HMG go down to 2 gorges, 1 fade and an offy chamber)
BlueGhost
Yes there is. If you're playing against a team of good aliens, there's a good chance that they'll take one of the hives back if you give them unlimited time in which to do so and spend all your money on tech rather than redundant turret factories and phases at each hive.
If you <i>do</i> build redundant turret factories and phases at each hive, you're a... a... Well. My abilities to call you names have been neutered by the prohibition against naughty words, but believe you me, I don't think very highly of turret farmers.
So, rather than do that, upgrade your armory as quickly as possible, find three guys that will do what you say, and give them HMGs. Unless they suck, they should be able to take out the final hive.
-K
note people:
IF YOU CAN HOLD.
Not:
'Build so many turrets that you can't fail to hold.'
So, if you're capable of holding the hive, from a stratigic view-point you should keep holding right up to the point you judge you can DEFINATLY kill their last hive.
At which point stop holding the other locations and throw everything into a daring and un-expected attack on the final hive.
Of course you should aim to be able to balance it perfectly so you spend JUST enough res on defence to JUST hold the hives JUST long enough to get JUST enough tech to kill the first hive <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
BlueGhost