<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He commented on the bug of the jetpack (fuel effected by FPS)
Not the balance of the jetpack.
Get your facts straight then reply. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh really?
In your 1st post we have:
Para 1: 'moan'
Para 2: 'Fact' pulled from thin air that a) JP/HMG is un-stoppable with level 1 hive tech and 2) its impossible to stop JP/HMG's from being obtained pre-level 2 hive tech.
para 3: Irrelivent moan about slowness of programming.
para 4: Threat of how you're immence knowledge of the gaming world proves NS will die unless instant action is taken!
para 5: Real world example of how ns is going to 'die'.. (Pssst people still play BF)
para 6: up the cost of JP to 15. Or I defcon prophose a curse upon all the 1st born of your mod!
para 7: Another threat about how droves of players are leaving...
So really the only relavant paragraph on the whole JP/balance debate is no. 2. and possibly no. 6.
Para 2:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The balancing team, whoever they are, have managed to leave out the biggest flaw in the game, jetpacks. The fact it's not that difficult to get 5 full lvl1 armor/gun HMG/JP, with a base full of mines before the 2nd hive even goes up. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rebo's post:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I love the patch, but the 100 fps JP thing is really getting silly now. Start in silo hive and marines just tech to JP from the start and LMG your hive to death whilst floating in the air and never landing:/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So rebo is asking for a bug to be fixed because he doesn't have the 'balance' keyword inside his post.. While you, using the 'balance' keyword are having a 'discussion' on the 'balance' of the JP.... yeeaaa.
'Balance' is the relative power of the two sides. The marine JP is 'un-Balanced' at least in part because of the 100fps bug, any discussion of the relative power of one side over the other due to a bug or a feature is a discussion of 'balance'.
Edit> Incedently I shan't be posting or reading any-more on this thread as I do realize arguing with you is an effective waste of time. Feel free to have the last word and sling dung at anyone else you can incite into responce via your pain inducing stupidity.
<!--QuoteBegin--Defcon+Jan 25 2003, 11:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Defcon @ Jan 25 2003, 11:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I might sound over the top, or angry, but I truly believe in my many years of gaming experience<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Out of all of Defcon's drivel, one sentence stood out among the rest.
Oh man... what a nerd. We're playing a game, not adding to our resume.
Its so hard to be fair with things that are new and seeing as 1.04 was just released is it possible we havnt had time to adjust to it?
I love NS, its the first game in 2 years that has pulled me away from Counter-Strike and I swore I would never leave that.
I had been playing 1.03 a lot. Our clan would all join one side or the other to play. Now we could win as either Marines or Aliens. (Mostly cause the other team was made up of new comers to the server), but we had always felt the Aliens had the advantage and were scared when we started reading the changelog to 1.04.
The funny thing is I could look around these forums and see people saying just the opposite of 1.03 that the Marines had it too good. So I said ok balanced...well sorta.
Tonight we tried being Marines (1.04) and it wasn't even funny. We got smoked buy a bunch of strangers on a map we usually do well on( ns_caged).
So perhaps my team needs to learn a new stratagy with the release of 1.04. I would really hate to see Flayra's hard work go to waste so quickly. We waited long enough for the patch, we can wait a little longer and see if we can make it work.
For right now the one thing, IMO, if it were up to me (and its not, im just saying) would be to return the siege back to the way it was.
Other than that the game seems pretty good. I was just getting very frusturated when I built a siege and I wouldnt kill anything in the next room. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> But enjoyed the strength of the weapons now.
I know this coding thing isnt easy. Im just now teaching myself how to code and I have looked at a couple of source code SDK's and I really have to tip my hat to you Flayra *Bows Graciously* its a really great mod. Thank you for your time and effort <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
To everyone that has all ready da*ned the patch. Give it a chance. Change your strats, try something new. Then if you still feel the same thats fine you are entitled, but not this soon.
ps. Im going looking for where people are saying the Marines have it too good in 1.04.
I really like my old qoute here "And you know what the great thing is about mods. They do all this work for free. That makes it totally and completely theirs. They dont owe us jack @#$@. They have no obligation to change this mod to fit our needs if they dont want to, and there is no way you can threaten them into changing it. All the custom model stuff...well I usually stay out of. I play the games for gameplay, not graphically look. Never wanted to change anything...call me a purist if you will. So all these people who complain and say they are gona leave....what do you want, a hug? a cookie? Am I, or anyone hear going to miss you? I dont think so. Even if everyone in the community left, this mod will still be one of the greatest mods ever created. And no-one will be able to change that. And people will continue to play it. Cause when all is said and done, this is a work of art, and a bit of genuis, and its dam fun to play(ALL THAT REALLY MATTERS). "
As for you Defcon...well...at first I actually thought you were trying to be the "tough, honest, ****" style guy that many groups need to progress. Now I realize(and I dont think I am alone here) that you are really just a punk. NEVER in all my years of internet browsing have I found someone so full of complaint that they have to be rude to the person who created the game. You never accomplish anything positive, your negativity and attitude simply start up flame wars...and you accomplish nothing. In all truth..its people like you that bring this community down.
Well, that was a bit to mature of me there I think, so PS. You suck, and we all hate you.
I just want to throw my 2-cents in here. Lock the thread plz. It started negative, didn't go anywhere posative or come up with anything related to NS. It's just an argument that doesn't have a solution.
Take care all. And Flayra- we DO appreciate everything you started and continue to do. Thank you.
Sure. Natural Selection, unlike most other Half Life modifications, has gotten this big, yet the designers still find time post on the forum. Gives a very nice 'community' feeling to this place.
And then there are the bad eggs. Just because <b>you</b> dislike a portion of the game (or all of it) doesn't mean <b>we</b> will all agree with you.
But if someone gives me bs, they get it back. This thread was following a previous conversation a few days ago where flayra got really moody after I commented on a 'problem' with balance. Nothing harsh whatsoever.
It's just flayra takes what I said the wrong way. When we had a chat before about some other problem, he replied 'well what experience do you have' like i'm some average gamer just moaning for the sheer hell of it. So I state the experience of other games that have gone wrong, and how I'd really hope NS isn't going to fall into similar death-traps.
I could simply move games without the hassle, but I really like to stick with this one, clan in the works etc.
Perhaps he could simply convince most of us with some developer notes, what he sees as the problem and such. Then we know at least he realises it. I thought jetpacks would have been balanced after the numerous JP-ownage games I saw him in.
joevGiving grief... With a smile.Join Date: 2002-07-20Member: 977Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited January 2003
As an appendix to this thread.
Defcon,
Criticism is a completely different thing to 'flaming' or insulting people in public.
You started this thread with flame, and then proceeded to retrofit comments on how you 'respect' NS, Flayra and the developers (after clearly showing no hint of respect whatsoever)
Criticism is fine, but you've not presented logical, factually backed up arguements (go gather some statistics and come back with them) and instead have resorted, time and again, to ranting and spewing your vitriol over these forums because your 'voice' is not been given the hearing that *you* think it should.
Let me put it simply, that 'voice' is a privilege, not a right. And with that privilege comes responsibility. Learn some. Learn to make rational, factual and cogent arguements instead of your ranting and insulting.
To aid you in this quest, <b>I have temp-banned you from posting for a week</b>. (I'm sure Flayra and the Forum mods must have been tempted to do this.. but being nice guys, they've refrained in the hope that you will see sense. Me, I'm more reactionary.. and having re-read several of your posts, I'm convinced that more direct intervention is required.)
This will give you time to cool your heels and perhaps (one can hope) improve your communication skills so that you can impart the wisdom of your critical eye without engendering offence and rankor.
Comments
Not the balance of the jetpack.
Get your facts straight then reply.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh really?
In your 1st post we have:
Para 1:
'moan'
Para 2:
'Fact' pulled from thin air that a) JP/HMG is un-stoppable with level 1 hive tech and 2) its impossible to stop JP/HMG's from being obtained pre-level 2 hive tech.
para 3:
Irrelivent moan about slowness of programming.
para 4:
Threat of how you're immence knowledge of the gaming world proves NS will die unless instant action is taken!
para 5:
Real world example of how ns is going to 'die'.. (Pssst people still play BF)
para 6:
up the cost of JP to 15. Or I defcon prophose a curse upon all the 1st born of your mod!
para 7:
Another threat about how droves of players are leaving...
So really the only relavant paragraph on the whole JP/balance debate is no. 2. and possibly no. 6.
Para 2:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The balancing team, whoever they are, have managed to leave out the biggest flaw in the game, jetpacks. The fact it's not that difficult to get 5 full lvl1 armor/gun HMG/JP, with a base full of mines before the 2nd hive even goes up.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rebo's post:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I love the patch, but the 100 fps JP thing is really getting silly now. Start in silo hive and marines just tech to JP from the start and LMG your hive to death whilst floating in the air and never landing:/
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So rebo is asking for a bug to be fixed because he doesn't have the 'balance' keyword inside his post.. While you, using the 'balance' keyword are having a 'discussion' on the 'balance' of the JP.... yeeaaa.
'Balance' is the relative power of the two sides. The marine JP is 'un-Balanced' at least in part because of the 100fps bug, any discussion of the relative power of one side over the other due to a bug or a feature is a discussion of 'balance'.
Edit>
Incedently I shan't be posting or reading any-more on this thread as I do realize arguing with you is an effective waste of time. Feel free to have the last word and sling dung at anyone else you can incite into responce via your pain inducing stupidity.
BlueGhost
Out of all of Defcon's drivel, one sentence stood out among the rest.
Oh man... what a nerd. We're playing a game, not adding to our resume.
I love NS, its the first game in 2 years that has pulled me away from Counter-Strike and I swore I would never leave that.
I had been playing 1.03 a lot. Our clan would all join one side or the other to play. Now we could win as either Marines or Aliens. (Mostly cause the other team was made up of new comers to the server), but we had always felt the Aliens had the advantage and were scared when we started reading the changelog to 1.04.
The funny thing is I could look around these forums and see people saying just the opposite of 1.03 that the Marines had it too good. So I said ok balanced...well sorta.
Tonight we tried being Marines (1.04) and it wasn't even funny. We got smoked buy a bunch of strangers on a map we usually do well on( ns_caged).
So perhaps my team needs to learn a new stratagy with the release of 1.04. I would really hate to see Flayra's hard work go to waste so quickly. We waited long enough for the patch, we can wait a little longer and see if we can make it work.
For right now the one thing, IMO, if it were up to me (and its not, im just saying) would be to return the siege back to the way it was.
Other than that the game seems pretty good. I was just getting very frusturated when I built a siege and I wouldnt kill anything in the next room. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> But enjoyed the strength of the weapons now.
I know this coding thing isnt easy. Im just now teaching myself how to code and I have looked at a couple of source code SDK's and I really have to tip my hat to you Flayra *Bows Graciously* its a really great mod. Thank you for your time and effort <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
To everyone that has all ready da*ned the patch. Give it a chance. Change your strats, try something new. Then if you still feel the same thats fine you are entitled, but not this soon.
ps. Im going looking for where people are saying the Marines have it too good in 1.04.
As for you Defcon...well...at first I actually thought you were trying to be the "tough, honest, ****" style guy that many groups need to progress. Now I realize(and I dont think I am alone here) that you are really just a punk. NEVER in all my years of internet browsing have I found someone so full of complaint that they have to be rude to the person who created the game. You never accomplish anything positive, your negativity and attitude simply start up flame wars...and you accomplish nothing. In all truth..its people like you that bring this community down.
Well, that was a bit to mature of me there I think, so PS. You suck, and we all hate you.
Lock the thread plz. It started negative, didn't go anywhere posative or come up with anything related to NS. It's just an argument that doesn't have a solution.
Take care all. And Flayra- we DO appreciate everything you started and continue to do. Thank you.
And then there are the bad eggs. Just because <b>you</b> dislike a portion of the game (or all of it) doesn't mean <b>we</b> will all agree with you.
a) NS
b) Flayra
But if someone gives me bs, they get it back. This thread was following a previous conversation a few days ago where flayra got really moody after I commented on a 'problem' with balance. Nothing harsh whatsoever.
It's just flayra takes what I said the wrong way. When we had a chat before about some other problem, he replied 'well what experience do you have' like i'm some average gamer just moaning for the sheer hell of it. So I state the experience of other games that have gone wrong, and how I'd really hope NS isn't going to fall into similar death-traps.
I could simply move games without the hassle, but I really like to stick with this one, clan in the works etc.
Perhaps he could simply convince most of us with some developer notes, what he sees as the problem and such. Then we know at least he realises it. I thought jetpacks would have been balanced after the numerous JP-ownage games I saw him in.
I think everyone would be alot happier, including you.
Defcon,
Criticism is a completely different thing to 'flaming' or insulting people in public.
You started this thread with flame, and then proceeded to retrofit comments on how you 'respect' NS, Flayra and the developers (after clearly showing no hint of respect whatsoever)
Criticism is fine, but you've not presented logical, factually backed up arguements (go gather some statistics and come back with them) and instead have resorted, time and again, to ranting and spewing your vitriol over these forums because your 'voice' is not been given the hearing that *you* think it should.
Let me put it simply, that 'voice' is a privilege, not a right. And with that privilege comes responsibility. Learn some. Learn to make rational, factual and cogent arguements instead of your ranting and insulting.
To aid you in this quest, <b>I have temp-banned you from posting for a week</b>. (I'm sure Flayra and the Forum mods must have been tempted to do this.. but being nice guys, they've refrained in the hope that you will see sense. Me, I'm more reactionary.. and having re-read several of your posts, I'm convinced that more direct intervention is required.)
This will give you time to cool your heels and perhaps (one can hope) improve your communication skills so that you can impart the wisdom of your critical eye without engendering offence and rankor.
joev.