Don't Forget To Defend The Hive

Alien_Bob · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">common gorge mistake</div> I've seen this happen so many times. Someone will go gorge at the start of the game, and trot off to get resources. So far, so good. However, they eventually get to an empty hive room and start building chambers in it and saving up for the second hive.

Problem is, the original hive is often left completely undefended, with not so much as a defence chamber in it, left wide open to attack. Marines can take over and secure an undefended hive room in a matter of minutes. It only takes one marine to sneak in there and build a phase gate and you're in big trouble.

Gorges, yes we need resources and yes we need a second hive. But please please please remember to set up defences at the first hive as soon as you can afford it. Go off and get two or three res towers up, but then come back and make sure the hive is secure before going off to save for the second.

Typhon · January 2003

Yeap. I see it all the time

do initial rush

1 go gorge, wait by hive for res

one node up

second node up

wait at new hive

build hive, get def chambers, offence to defend, movements up (meanwhile original hive is just sitting there, talking to itself)

Marines fly in on jetpacks with shotguns and blow your original hive back to nano-goo.

Now aliens only have skulks/lerk, and marines have JP, HA, HMG, tanks, nukes, and sharks with frickin' lasers on their heads.

Please, atleast drop 3 OC and 2 def right next to hive.

Asraniel · January 2003

defending the first hive is the task of the skulks, not the gorge one. He put defenses as soon as there are two hives

LoboLeal · January 2003

I'm with you Asraniel, skulks task is rushing marine start and defend first hive cause all dead skulks respawn at this hive and they can kill any marine at hive.

Pege · January 2003

I've seen this happen a lot too. Usually the gorges mistake of not building defense to first hive is compensated by the commanders inability to notice that there is no defense and take advantage. The focus or "warzone" moves around the map so that other parts are left without attention, but smart commanders can take benefit out of this and attack least defended areas. Gorges and skulks can be so preoccupied at stopping marines advancing in some front that they leave other routes completely defenseless and I think this is very bad. It's hard to find gorges who don't leave any clear routes to the hives. Sometimes the gorge seems to think it's good enough that you defend the HIVE structure itself, by building defenses under the hive, while the marines are building a siege outpost around the corner... Kinda sad, but it really happens <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

dumbo · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Defending the first hive is the task of the skulks, not the gorge. He'll put defenses as soon as there are two hives.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

That's my thinking too.

Geronimo · January 2003

Marine strategy:

1.Take one hive
2. Take some RTs
3. Get entire squad killed when trying to kill The aliens second hivelocation
4. Battle Aliens for second hive
5. Loose first hive
6. Get killed by fades
7. Get laughed at by the aliens cause your team sucks

My strategy:

1. Take one hive
2. Take alien hive
3. Sell hive on Ebay
4. Take and secure all reourcepoints on the map
5. Seal dumb aliens in their new and very well defended hive
6. Go have a drink
7. Siege
8. Send in the Wilderbeasts!!!

sej · January 2003

erm...... skulks job is not to rush marine base (aka suicide), but to run around defending the hive, defending the gorge, defending res towers, and most of all make sure the marines do not get undefended res points up.

Anyone whose seen the effectiveness of a jetpack / hmg rush would agree on my last point.

Oh, and defences wont help against a jetpack hmg-er (if he knows what he is doing). A gorge would need to build 8 OCs/ 8 DCs or so to stop him, and even that may not be enough. And to get such defences up in 2 hives requires a lot of time and resources. Its just not possible to get defences AND second hive up quickly enough.

A little secret here.. if you think the marines are jetpack rushing (effectively)... there is only one way to stop them winning.... take down their tech buildings (arms lab,proto lab, advanced armoury etc) in an organised rush, to buy time for aliens to get fades and webbing, to stop jetpackers.

Canadianmonk3y · January 2003

OCs before the 2nd hive is VERY bad, and hurt more than helps <90% of the time.

DaStompa · January 2003

with the new hive's super fast regen rate, skulks respawning, ect. there is no reason to defend the first hive before the 2nd is up

unless your team is totally incompetent, its not necessary

OWA · January 2003

And as has been stated, if it's a jetpack your defenses are 90 percent useless unless backed up by webbing, which you cannot get until the second hive anyways.

FlatlineUTD · January 2003

I've been seeing Gorges put up a DC immediately, then cap 2 or 3 nodes before saving for a Hive. Early carapace will definitely help against the marines' fast-tech that's so popular in 1.04.

DemonSax · January 2003

What does it take to defend a hive? Are four O chambers enough? Is ten? I often see newer players complain "Come ON gorge, we need some more defenses in the hive!" before the second hive is up, and I'm not sure they even understand what they're asking.

There are usually several places in or near a hive that would need to be protected to prevent the marines from dropping a phase in attack range of the hive. The time and resources required to secure each and every area is considerable. And if you don't secure all of them, the marines will happily go to whatever space you've left them to build.

Ask not what your gorge can defend, ask what you can defend for your gorge.

SoulSkorpion · January 2003

The gorge should NOT be putting up defenses in the first hive, he should be saving for res towers. It is the job of the skulks to protect the gorge, the hives, and the res towers. The skulks (and later on, the fades and lerks) are ALWAYS the defense - towers are only ever there to slow the enemy down long enough for help to arrive.

Putting up defenses in the first hive is generally a waste of resources. Well, not a waste of resources but those resources could be better spent getting RTs and\or the second hive.

bongo-joe007 · January 2003

The skulks main jobs are to delay the marines/limit res of marines/defend base.. while gorge(s) focus on puttting up a 2nd hive(1 or 2 res tower before).

The better the skulk play vs marines --> less gorge needs to put up defenses and can fast track towards 2nd hive

But less reliable skulk defense --> gorge will put up def/off chamb b4 2nd hive.. or else hive will die.

Simple eh?

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

Paq · January 2003

My tactic is when iam a gorge at start:

1. I build 2 res towers
2. I move to a second hive location
3, Build two/three def chambs
4. I order that somebody go to gorge too and build some def at first hive
5. I build a hive
6. Defences to a second hive and i hope that the other gorge did those defences at first hive

Sifo25 · February 2003

One of my favorite times as an alien, and as a gorge, is when I finally get that 2nd hive started. I get a rush of two feelings...

1. Are the marines gonna get me? Are my skulks gonna help me? Does everyone know that if I or this newly started hive get attacked, they need to get here? Will we get Fades? ...its fear, and its exilerhating.

2. Now, we balance... on a Wall of Lame. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> Its fun to watch your res go up after dropping hive 2 and knowing that you now have a OC/DC spending budget. Now is the time to pick the points of interest, to build the slowdown/blockades, give everyone on your team advanced warning that the marines are coming. Now, its time for you to get Chamber kills. Muwahahaha!

They are both great feelings, and unless an alien team sux0rz hard, those skulks should defend the 1st hive against all but the most determined marines, or the most well teched marines. I consider marines dropping a first hive the same as aliens rushing in and dropping a marine base, before either side has had a chance to evolve/tech up - possible, and often entertaining, but not always THAT easy. Not if the defenders of said hive/marine base do their job.

In one case, a comm. needs to turret up his base/keep marines as turrets at his base/call his troops back via phases if his unturreted/undefended base is attacked.

On the other hand, skulks need to defend, draw out, attack and drop tech buildings and undefended RTs the marines put up, and finally, defend the hive at all costs to marines right at the door. Different tactics, but the same interest in both cases: keep them out of our house.

S

p4Samwise · February 2003

One or two offense towers can make a huge difference. By themselves, they might not kill marines, but they give your skulks something to hide behind while the hive heals them. A def or two backing them up, and a single skulk can do the rest to mop up an entire marine squad, with or without a phase gate.

And once you get the second hive, please please please put a lil web here and there. A few strands on the ceiling is all it takes to kill most jetpackers. Just earlier tonight I lost what had been a great game on ns_nothing because the gorge who said he'd defend Silo didn't bother to web the ceiling. Guess what: siege in the rafters. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> ?*boom*
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'> ? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'>
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...............................| ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? NOOOO!!!!!
........................... ..| ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>
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matso · February 2003

I agree with those who say that the gorge cannot build defenses for the first hive. It does happen that I build defenses at chokepoints before building the 2nd hive, but that depends on how dangerous the marines seems to be. Once the 2nd hive is up, I build movement chambers in the hive, and then it's time for defenses for the first hive. You can't really do it any earlier anyhow, as you won't have the resources for it.

ZiGGY · February 2003

well i suppose, you could stuff defence and bomb res towers. then everyone can wear mario-the-pluber style fake moustaches and go flap flap flap. All the aliens going flap flap flap will make the marines cry until they get ha then flap flap flap pt pt pt pt your way to some more hives and whiiiii their throats until they all leave well and truly spanked.

Canadianmonk3y · February 2003

Walls of lame are preferrably not built until you have capped most of the resources on the map and built all three hives. Getting two RTs, tossing the hive in, and then spending all your cash on walls of lame just lenthens the time until your team gets fades.

Throwing up a DC or two once in a while is not bad, as they are cheap, but effective stop off points for wounded team mates, and safe refuges from groups of small marines.

Ok, take a good game for instance...
Aliens let eachother know where marines are heading, and the gorge will NEVER get caught by marines, and will be able to waddle away miles before any marines gets near. If it is a bad game, and you are a good gorge, you can run while attacking the marine or two that you encounter back to a DC, and proceed to kick their ****.

Either way, making walls of lame is pointless, and the only way they help is to block off all entrances with 2-3 OCs and 2-3 DCs, for a cost of 56 minimum. That is almost 3 RTs.

matso · February 2003

If you look at the maps, usually you can protect two hives with just 2-3 chokepoints. As you are going to build 3 DC's anyhow, you might as well build them at a front chokepoint to get some offensive use for them.

Aminal · February 2003

I gorge as soon as i have 13 res, and drop three nodes with no defence as soon as I can. Then i'll defend whatever is the most important res point for the map, then go start saving for hive - possibly dropping some stuff to defend the un deffed hive. Def or Sens chambers may go up as i run around too, but never movement at this stage.

Once the second hive is up, hopefully we'll get another gorge to def the 1st hive, while i cap res points and def the existing ones.

You can get six nodes, and two hives heavily defended this way, which will give you an easy ride to victory. If you can't manage this - you're either playing on too big a server (more than 6 players per team gives marines a big advantage) or your skulks suck.

Basically you dont need to drop OC's and DC's at every node, because hivesight should keep the skulks defending the RTs.

If skulks are doing thier job and keeping the marines out of your hives, away from your RT's and hitting the marines nodes, then you have the game in the bag once you have four nodes and saving for

ns_bast: 9 nodes
ns_caged: 8 nodes
ns_eclipse: 8 nodes
ns_hera: 8 nodes
ns_nancy: 8 nodes
ns_nothing: 11 nodes
ns_tanith: 9 nodes

If you have 4 nodes when the second hive goes up, you're controlling almost half the nodes on the map. 2 or three more once that hive goes up is enough to give you a win (with the exception of nothing, which has a world of res availiable) especially if you can restrict the marines to 1 or two nodes.

Nicator · February 2003

The order I usually use these days is 1 RT, 3 DC, 2 or 3 RT, hive, one more RT if there's an easily accessible one, defense. The server I usually play on generally has decent quality marines, and the skulks really need that carapace asap. This build order seems to balance nicely the skulk's need for carapace and my need to a) get the hive up quick, and b) have lots of res for defences and advanced evolutions.

KingKupo · February 2003

i think that the defense of the original hive must be done by skulks. and thats why the skulk rush is good for, it slows the enemy down.

matso · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KingKupo @ Feb 3 2003, 12:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i think that the defense of the original hive must be done by skulks. and thats why the skulk rush is good for, it slows the enemy down.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
The skulk rush is futile against a good marine team; rather than slowing down the marines, it speeds up the marine expansion tremendously.

The correct strategy against non-noob marines is to wait for the marines to move out, then kill them from ambush.

Killymagee · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>sharks with frickin' lasers attached to their heads.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

rofl.

Don't Forget To Defend The Hive

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