Trip-mines Are Not A Waste Of Res Points!

slaps · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">If they are placed correctly ~</div> This is a very important topic that I'd like to discuss <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

I'm sick and tired of requesting some cheap 8 res point tripmines to help slow down the now common skulk rush! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'> And being told that "They are a waste of resources"?

WTF?

Then what usually happens is that the n00b commander will go on to waste 75+ res pts building those sh|t hopeless sentry turrets usually in bad positions
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> Skulks proceed to simply run past these dopey (Un-UPGRADED !) sentry turrets and quikly attack the inf portals and CC .....and win the game in a few mins <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> I SEE THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN!

This game is now a few months old and ppl are alot more experienced playing as aliens and naturally they know that rushing relentlessly and simply diresgarding turrets PAYS OFF BIGTIME!

WHAT TO DO!

Well myself and few other common-sense thinking players have realised that well placed trip mines WORK! When slowing down the skulk rush. They slow it down enough to at least get established and AT A MUCH CHEAPER COST!
2 sets of very well placed mines can and will wipe out 7-8 skulks not bad for 16 respoints wouldn't you say? Thats less than one sentry turret!

I'm not saying that TF's and sentrys should not be built OK! But they should be used in tandem to stop the suicidal rushing skulks.

I just hope that ppl understand that if your marines ask for mines GIVE THEM AT LEAST ONE SET only 8res pts!!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> To mine the marine spawn base!

Other relevant points to consider-:

- I agree that mines are pretty much useless near the end of the match when say the fades and onos are rushing the base. So it is ok to ignore mine requests during fade attacks.

- Tell your marines if they are n00bs where to place the mines! Heck give em a waypoint and say "Put mines near that vent or entrance!" I myself simply say "MINE ALL BASE ENTRANCES!"

- A good miner knows these simple rules about placing effective mines!
1. Don't place mines near each other! ( this simply is a waste!)
2. Put mines on the floor at blind corners !
3. Place mines low to the ground to kill skulks. It's true that some skulks simply climb the walls over the top of the trip laser and SOME DONT! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
4. If there are shadows in the hallways place mines on the floor in the shadows you'll be guaranteed a dead skulk! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
5. Put mines in front of important structures like INF PORTALS, PHASE GATES and COMMAND CENTRES! BUT NOT TOO CLOSE ! Just back a bit will do the job and reduce damage to the structures.

Thoughts on this topic fellas ?

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

J2pc · January 2003

you said it all
Good point, discussed to death, use the search plz

slaps · January 2003

But its still happening <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

J2pc · January 2003

other things discussed to death and still happening

5 gorgs on 5player team
D/M/S chamber
Marines ramboing

Gargamel · January 2003

Yeah Topic many times discussed.
It seems those n00bs out there just dont visit these forums <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

But, still a good point and remember we get new gamers all the time, to repeat something for them buried at page 2 aint that bad <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Mines rule!

Dead_Dragon · January 2003

The sheer number of exclamation marks confused me.

I respawn for free. Your mines dont. And I wont get tired of suiciding on those mines if I have to. Feel free to keep wasting res replacing them.

Shockeh · January 2003

Except :

If you kill all the skulks, the skulks win in rez.

Free skulk vs 8 rez worth of mines? You do the math. For saving the spawn at the start, you should be using the.... (guess?)....

<b>MARINES!</b> that's what they're THERE for.

Akira · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Jan 29 2003, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Except :

If you kill all the skulks, the skulks win in rez.

Free skulk vs 8 rez worth of mines? You do the math. For saving the spawn at the start, you should be using the.... (guess?)....

<b>MARINES!</b> that's what they're THERE for.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
We've all seen skulks take out turret factories on their own, that's 25rp(?) and after the TF's down, everything in the area would naturally go down too, and that'll be (assuming that there's atleast 3 turrets) 3x19 + (assuming it's protecting a RP or something) 22, that's over a 100Rp's already.

Mines are good, but only to at the beginning or against 1 hive.
Ak.

slaps · January 2003

lol asif the n00b marines can hold off the skulk rush by themselves <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

n00bs running off not covering the base ! pfft ! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

FlatlineUTD · January 2003

Mining has been talked about so many times in the past that it's not even funny.

To sum up the last few months of discussion: mines = good.

Smart alien teams realize that Skulk rushes are becoming more of a setback than an advantage, but mines are still good for preventing those few random assaults on your main.

TeoH · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead Dragon @ Jan 29 2003, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I respawn for free. Your mines dont. And I wont get tired of suiciding on those mines if I have to. Feel free to keep wasting res replacing them.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Feel free to keep wasting <b>time</b> rushing my mines. Time is a resource too, mines are not placed to inflict crippling damage on an alien side, they are placed to delay you.

All a pack of mines has to do is make it easier for 1/2 marines to temporarily hold a base while the rest of the team rushes a hive/holds a hive/caps a res point/whatever. An alien team has the option of <b>spending their time</b> either attacking a large group of marines in the field, or a single marine covering a base that is protected by mines. When seconds make the difference between securing a position and losing a position, it is not an effective use of a skulks time to kamakize himself on a mine field over and over again. It's also a good way to back up the spawn que at a time when a hive rush is a definate possibility.

Mines are effective because they can be dropped and placed fast, are cheap, and provide all the assistance your team needs at the beginning of the game, to hold the base with the minimum amount of base defenders. Spending 80 res and a significant amount of building time on a turret farm that is not remotely necessary, at a stage in the game when time and effective use of resources are critical is a serious mistake.

hoju2 · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Except :

If you kill all the skulks, the skulks win in rez.

Free skulk vs 8 rez worth of mines? You do the math. For saving the spawn at the start, you should be using the.... (guess?)....

MARINES! that's what they're THERE for. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Except some people might want their Marines moving <b>out</b> of the base securing Nodes and Hives and such, not sitting around the base defending against Skulks and slowly losing :/

Plus on most maps it takes almost a minute to get to the Marine Spawn, and it takes us only a couple of seconds to lay out enough mines to kill the Skulks.

V_MAN · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (slaps @ Jan 29 2003, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 2 sets of very well placed mines can and will wipe out 7-8 skulks not bad for 16 respoints wouldn't you say? Other relevant points to consider-:

 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
If you are gonna block off a door with one set of mines it's more than likely that the top mine or the bottom one will only kill a skulk and once that mine is gone all the other skulks will go through the gap unless you replace it. So saying that 2 sets of mines will kill 7-8 skulks is just rubbish.

A fast moving skulk who stays on the opposide side of the wall to the mine before tripping it will sometimes survive depending on the width of the area being mined. I only use mines as a deterrant or as a warning sign that an area is being attacked.

Mercior · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (slaps @ Jan 29 2003, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> dopey (Un-UPGRADED !) sentry turrets  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Firstly I didn't know that sentry turrets can be upgraded? (Hint: They can't)

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>trip mines WORK! When slowing down the skulk rush. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Amazing that you can get an IP, an armory and lay mines before the skulks manage to rush your base!

I know this has been discussed before, but mines are an utter waste of time and resources - they only work once, they are SO PATHETICALLY EASY TO AVOID AS SKULK and half the time they don't actually kill you even when you do hit one. The 8 res would be much more wisely spent on a shotgun for one of your marines - I suspect it will do a lot more good than some mines.

Then as for your point about mining structures - in a clan game your structures will just get damaged by the mines, probably more than if the skulk had stood there biting the structure until the sentries killed him.

TeoH · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Firstly I didn't know that sentry turrets can be upgraded? (Hint: They can't)
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yes they can, take a closer look at the arms lab weapon upgrades.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Amazing that you can get an IP, an armory and lay mines before the skulks manage to rush your base!
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Actually, on many maps you can, but that isnt the issue. Alien teams that know what they're doing will not dive into the marine base from the instant the map starts anyway, because doing so against a marine team that can aim results in the entire alien team dying at once while inflicting minimal damage on the marines, who can respawn faster than you can. And while your skulks wait to come back from the giant respawn que the marines have free reign of the map, and you cannot even follow their movements. An immediate counter rush on small maps can be devestating.

General early game alien strat involves camping out the exits to a marine base, parasiting when possible and making sure nothing gets out without you knowing about it. When a marine team does move, you set up an ambush and try to prevent them from securing any forward location. Organised attacks on the main typically come after an alien team has either failed to prevent the marines from securing a location, and are looking for the next target, or have ambushed and killed a marine team near the marine base, and have enough remaining skulks to charge the base as marines are spawning. In either situation you usually have 1 dedicated base defender, no turrets, and the option of mining the entrance. All mines have to be able to do is make it difficult for the skulks to quickly take advantage of an opportunity, and delay or injure them enough for either the base defender to handle them, or for the rest of your team to spawn back in. They do this at a very minimal cost.

As for mines damaging buildings, the actual damage dealt to a friendly structure is tiny at best. I've played against marine teams who repeatedly mined their phase gates without welding the phase and sucessive explosions did not inflict serious damage.

Mines aren't supposed to lock down an area by themselves, not even a 150 res turret farm can do that.

Dadden · February 2003

I am going to make it easy for everybody to understand. Mines OWN. someone said they are only good in the beginning or VS 1 hive, that is very true since i have seen fades kill more people with mines than with the acid ( well most of the marines were very sttupid but anyway). But there is one easy strat that will make you win any game pretty easy. build the usuall stuff. get at least 1 guy to every hive, that is one marine wothout parasite, get a phase up, start MINING like CRAZY. if u have a phase in both hives protected by lets say 25 mines each the aliens are not going to take it easy, not even with sucky marinesy. Then you just grab some res around the map and mine them too and build TF and turrets at the hives and all that usual crap. what i am trying to say is: MINES DO NOT SUCK, THEY HAVE NEVER SUCKED AND THEY WILL PROBABLY NEVER SUCK EITHER, if the NS team dont make some radical change to them.But you have to understand that the mines are not a complete defense, they are just there for holding up the aliens until the marines can phase in and clean it up

MasterEvilAce · February 2003

Mines *ARE* great.

Usually whenever I'm playing with my clanmates, and if a clanmate is commanding, he'll hand out mines, and we'll place them. We'll place them in real good spots, where we get a lot of kills.. but for some reason people ARE idiots, and they *LIKE* to waste resources by putting mines in bad spots.

IE: Putting it high on a wall where the beam will go all the way to the other wall..
A skulk can set off the mine EASILY without dieing.. That's no way to place mines.

ZoKHiZ · February 2003

Tripmine is to marines same as sensory for first chamber for aliens...

Giot · February 2003

some good places to put these are around the comm chair, IP, and TF

it prevents the skulks from munching on them without takeing atleast 1-2 of them out first

NamRanger · February 2003

Mines are utterly useless late game... that's all

relsan · February 2003

if marines took one turret away from all their outposts and replaced those resources with mines in the surrounding areas, it would improve the area defense dramatically.

people don't use mines a lot because they simply dont think to; just like some gorges that often forget to use their webbing. it's really invaluable if you give it a chance.

the unfortunate thing about them is that like all other weapons, they are only dispensible at an armory. so if your commander has only built an armory at marine start, thats probably the only place the marines are likely to use the mines. but once the phase gates are installed and its safer to get to the other outposts, mines will help a lot.

but like some people have said already, they are a waste late game. but thats not what they are for. they are for the early game to be used against skulks. and considering skulk respawn times, its worth it to keep your outposts mined.

Geronimo · February 2003

This is fairly simple:

If you team isnt skileld enough to hold their own base, they sure as hell wont be able to place mines in the proper way.

Once a marines team thought it would be fun to spam mines all over their homebase in eclipse

Well, I ran in and destroyed 40 mines as a single skulk, since they never realized they wont hurt me unless im very close...

No doubt they lost...

rebo · February 2003

If you dont use mines in a clan game you lose.

ogz · February 2003

you could say taht suiciding 5 times will cost them 8 res

but it takes, assuming 10 seconds to reach their base (thats pretty damn fast) and the 15 seconds wait (8 hive spawn time 7 seconds dead time)
125 seconds of your time

they can easily get 8 res from some extra res tower somewhere in that time...

Trip-mines Are Not A Waste Of Res Points!

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