The only way a gorge can take out multiple marines (light or heavy) is if the marines are not following proper stacking orders. If they are bunched too closley they are dead meat. Weather its Acid Rocket, or webbing, bunching marines up is poor tactics. If the marines are walking in a columb or line, then its practically impossible for more than 1 of them to be webbed at once. Furthermore, since web is only availible at the 2 hive mark marines should never walk around in groups with less than 3 people. 3 marines in a staggered line are impossible to web at once (unless thy have absolutley no aim and let the gorge run circles around them, but usually gorges arent that brave, and marines dont suck that bad)
As far as the "time delay" webbing goes, I dont see how that can be a good idia, sometimes i need to web a hallway to give myself enough time to drop/build an OC or DC, if webs took time to activate the rushing marine would not be delayed and I would be defensless against him (talking rambo hive rushers here or any other time a gorge runs into a random marine)
terr, i think speedy was referring to my 'whining' (isn’t it funny when people get all flustered that they are having to try to tell people off?). 5 seconds in delay isn’t as big a deal as some think it is, if the gorge is being perused closely that means the pursuer got past the escort for the gorge or killed them, one might think the guy deserves his gorge kill....sort of ironic eh? gorges can use redemption if they need to have a way to not be killed by rambos. as for the gorge and fade combo thing, I think a skulk and fade combo should be a better attacking force when used together because it is 2 combat units (fits huh? that 2 combat units would do more damage then a combat unit and a construction unit when it comes to 'combat'?)
most of what I am seeing is that gorges should not be defenseless and that because of this, web is needed. there are other abilities that the gorge can use to defend it's self such as redemption, cloaking and silence, such as an escort. it is possible to have a gorge able to Defend its self while not do damage.
on the side- the commander isn’t a wide open target and yet he isn’t single handily disabling units and the chair cant run away either! and it cant even cloak or redemp! this thing about rambos running around and bagging gorges isn’t such a flaw in the game, it can be worked around but it forces the aliens to change what they do, rambo'ing is something the humans can do, the alien teams should find a way around it that doesn’t include disabling so much of the human team
One thing where webs can be very useful is fighting jetpackers. I've just been in a game where the marines teched to jetpacks before we could get a second hive, and it was pretty close. Skulks occasionally caught one but midair marine kills are hard, and even harder without leap. The big advantage came at two hives when the gorges could use their webs. That delayed the jetpackers, and bought me some time to kill their spawns and CC their base was mined but not turreted and completely undefended by marines. (Minefields alone aren't very effective against skulks who can just use the ceiling and drop down on their targets.) Before you get fades, webs and lerks are the only good ways to get jetpackers. And lerks are pretty expensive, it's not very sustainable early in the game. It's sometimes possible to get them as skulk, but the best defense is getting two hives ASAP and getting some webs.
Some people would like to get rid of the webs, but that would make jetpackers (especially 100fps jets that never hit the ground) very hard to fight.
get rid of them- no. this is not what i am saying and sorry if it sounds like i would like to see web replaced with another ability. what i want to see is the now currently vary powerful web be replaced with a less powerful web, one that takes a few seconds to set or one that could be welded off people or something of the like
I played a game today.. it was 1vs1.. i was a marine.. the map was seige004.
And well, you would think the other person would wait for others to join, like I was. So I made some res.. I joined late.. it was 1vs1 but the old marine left befor I was there, so the other guy had time to build up, and there were no turrents.
So I went to build res.. etc
And then the gorge runs to my base, drops all kinds of d and o towers with binds, and I couldn't kill him because he had d chambers all over healing him, and then he shoots me over and over with webs, and keeps dropping o towers. I die, and respawn, then he goes to the main base, drops o and d towers, and keeps webbing me.
so.. in short.. I think webs shouldn't work around marine structures.
[note]I'm too sick to compose a great argument against some good points in your reply terr [/note]
"a skilled gorge." Any gorge that doesn't have adrenaline can shoot 3-5 web shots before running out of adrenaline, if the marine evades your first 2-4 strands, theoretically you're toast. If you add a delay to webbing, it will turn into a pre-emptive defensive weapon only. That means I will spam it at every entrance I ever see all the time. You know why? Because if I don't, any joe schmoe can kill me. If he welds it, I'll hear him ahead of time and hopefully will be able to book it, spamming more webbing way in front of me (which I theoretically already did, since it takes 5 seconds for it to work). This means that I'll force the server to not allow any more webbing until that webbing is cleared, that or the limit on webs would have to be removed (and that will ueber-lag the server, heavy-duty webbing and building spamming does this already). The gorge, as it is right now, is about as good as a skulk at level 2, and is comparable (although I prefer divinewind, most people don't like losing their score for a buggy attack) to a level 3 skulk. Level 3 lerks are definitely better/stronger, as are fades/onos.
I see a good point about webbing someone standing still, and it sounds like a lot of work to pull that off. The current ability that i know of that will disable someone regardless of if they're moving or not (and it only incapacitates their legs, dang-nabbit!) is paralyze, 2nd attack level 5 alien.
Redesigning the gorge to be a "builder only" would remove it from combat most of the time, yes, but it would defeat the purpose of having a kharaa. Why not make it marines vs. marines? Then you'll have one commander at all times for both teams, eh?
[sidenote] I'm well aware that pre-emptive webbing is a good idea across the board whenever you build walls of lame, but if there's a delay I'll pre-emptive everything, not just the necessary areas, and it won't take effect until later on. [/sidenote]
Um... no. Gorges are *support* units. My arguement:
Gorges pack a ranged weapon in the early game. While not particularly effective, the gorge's spit lets it engage marines (and lure them, for that matter) from range, which skulks cannot do, without forcing the team to have a lerk floating around (not always resource-viable). It is also able to disable mines (it blows them up) and open some welds, making the gorge somewhat of a "combat engineer."
Gorges also have "heal spray" which is not, contrary to popular belief, only usable as a CQB weapon and for extending the life of your O tower rushes. They've been handed the role of "combat medic" along with everything else they do.
Even the act of construction often puts the gorge in a supporting role... asides from walls of lame, hives, towers for upgrades, and base defenses, a gorge can *support* with construction by giving a forward attack squad some D towers for healing, or a sensory tower for early-warning, or O towers for covering fire.
Babblers are one of the ultimate support weapons... almost useless by themselves, babblers do serve a few nifty roles in combat... chasing down webbed marines, tearing up buildings while the skulks whip around, and drawing turret fire away from the skulks as they go in.
Given this, the fact that a gorge can help out on an assault by spraying up a bunch of webbing ahead of the assault force or slowing down attackers long enough to let a skulk rip 'em a new one seems to fit it's role perfectly...
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
This is why so many people overlook the value of a welder-rush, until they run into a competent Gorge who doesn't just hide back and build, or be a pudgy target, scampering around and trying to get away. Adding a five-second delay to webbing (why, cant avoid the strands?) would take away about the only effective weapon the Gorge has.. especially one who prefers to be at the front lines, terrifying the Marines. Honestly.. that's like saying that the Marines should have Engineers who have no weapons besides a BB gun, but they're the only ones who can actually build the structures that the Comm drops.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Disclaimer: I think webs are perfect just as they are.
My two best webbing stories:
1) I was a 3-hive gorge, approaching the Marine Start on Nancy from Mother (aka Nameless) Hive via the right-hand tunnels. I had just thrown up a web at about knee-height when I heard a marine clink-clinking down the hallway. I froze, and cloaked just as he entered the room. He stood on the far side of the web, scanning the room, but eventually gave up, hopped the web, and ran on through.
Well, I quickly threw up a second web at chest height and ran around the corner. Sure enough, the marine came back to investigate... moments later, I heard the wet wrapping sound of webs hitting a marine body. I quickly threw 4 babblers around the corner and waddled my fat little gorge butt into the room, re-cloaking as they tore him apart. I chuckled, then headed on to chamber up the room outside the MS. (:
2) I was a 2-hive gorge happily minding my own business, building up around Eclipse Command hive. All of a sudden I hear our cursory fortifications in Triad come under attack and quickly fall. I start yelling for backup, that I've got incoming and I'm all alone, as I throw down webs in the corridor leading from Triad to EC. Moments later, 3 HAs step into the hallway, and again that delightful sound of a helpless marine. (:
I tossed a few more webs onto them (aim at a wall or floor on either side of a marine to catch him instantly), and then dropped a pair of OCs. More webs, and healing spray... then an OC on the far side of the trio. More webs! Healing spray... and then a pair of Skulks showed up and finished the job. It was beautiful.
"Gorges also have "heal spray" which is not, contrary to popular belief, only usable as a CQB weapon "
For some reason that made me crack up.
And to my mind at least, webs are fine. The only thing about webs I have a problem with, and this doesn't really apply to the alien side, it bugs me that JPers can zoom around with welder on and be immune to webs. I think there should be, at the very least, a % chance of being webbed while moving extremely fast.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sh0t+Feb 4 2003, 08:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sh0t @ Feb 4 2003, 08:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Until I can swing around like spidergorge, I won't be satisfied.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LMAO!
Comments
As far as the "time delay" webbing goes, I dont see how that can be a good idia, sometimes i need to web a hallway to give myself enough time to drop/build an OC or DC, if webs took time to activate the rushing marine would not be delayed and I would be defensless against him (talking rambo hive rushers here or any other time a gorge runs into a random marine)
"...until a fade came along and killed them."
"Thats just wrong basicly. A gorge effectivley single handedly killed 2 HA HMG marines."
Contradiction?
A gorge AND a fade killed them.
-Leviathan
most of what I am seeing is that gorges should not be defenseless and that because of this, web is needed. there are other abilities that the gorge can use to defend it's self such as redemption, cloaking and silence, such as an escort. it is possible to have a gorge able to Defend its self while not do damage.
on the side- the commander isn’t a wide open target and yet he isn’t single handily disabling units and the chair cant run away either! and it cant even cloak or redemp! this thing about rambos running around and bagging gorges isn’t such a flaw in the game, it can be worked around but it forces the aliens to change what they do, rambo'ing is something the humans can do, the alien teams should find a way around it that doesn’t include disabling so much of the human team
Before you get fades, webs and lerks are the only good ways to get jetpackers. And lerks are pretty expensive, it's not very sustainable early in the game. It's sometimes possible to get them as skulk, but the best defense is getting two hives ASAP and getting some webs.
Some people would like to get rid of the webs, but that would make jetpackers (especially 100fps jets that never hit the ground) very hard to fight.
And well, you would think the other person would wait for others to join, like I was.
So I made some res.. I joined late.. it was 1vs1 but the old marine left befor I was there, so the other guy had time to build up, and there were no turrents.
So I went to build res.. etc
And then the gorge runs to my base, drops all kinds of d and o towers with binds, and I couldn't kill him because he had d chambers all over healing him, and then he shoots me over and over with webs, and keeps dropping o towers. I die, and respawn, then he goes to the main base, drops o and d towers, and keeps webbing me.
so.. in short.. I think webs shouldn't work around marine structures.
"a skilled gorge." Any gorge that doesn't have adrenaline can shoot 3-5 web shots before running out of adrenaline, if the marine evades your first 2-4 strands, theoretically you're toast. If you add a delay to webbing, it will turn into a pre-emptive defensive weapon only.
That means I will spam it at every entrance I ever see all the time. You know why? Because if I don't, any joe schmoe can kill me. If he welds it, I'll hear him ahead of time and hopefully will be able to book it, spamming more webbing way in front of me (which I theoretically already did, since it takes 5 seconds for it to work). This means that I'll force the server to not allow any more webbing until that webbing is cleared, that or the limit on webs would have to be removed (and that will ueber-lag the server, heavy-duty webbing and building spamming does this already). The gorge, as it is right now, is about as good as a skulk at level 2, and is comparable (although I prefer divinewind, most people don't like losing their score for a buggy attack) to a level 3 skulk. Level 3 lerks are definitely better/stronger, as are fades/onos.
I see a good point about webbing someone standing still, and it sounds like a lot of work to pull that off. The current ability that i know of that will disable someone regardless of if they're moving or not (and it only incapacitates their legs, dang-nabbit!) is paralyze, 2nd attack level 5 alien.
Redesigning the gorge to be a "builder only" would remove it from combat most of the time, yes, but it would defeat the purpose of having a kharaa. Why not make it marines vs. marines? Then you'll have one commander at all times for both teams, eh?
[sidenote] I'm well aware that pre-emptive webbing is a good idea across the board whenever you build walls of lame, but if there's a delay I'll pre-emptive everything, not just the necessary areas, and it won't take effect until later on. [/sidenote]
Um... no. Gorges are *support* units. My arguement:
Gorges pack a ranged weapon in the early game. While not particularly effective, the gorge's spit lets it engage marines (and lure them, for that matter) from range, which skulks cannot do, without forcing the team to have a lerk floating around (not always resource-viable). It is also able to disable mines (it blows them up) and open some welds, making the gorge somewhat of a "combat engineer."
Gorges also have "heal spray" which is not, contrary to popular belief, only usable as a CQB weapon and for extending the life of your O tower rushes. They've been handed the role of "combat medic" along with everything else they do.
Even the act of construction often puts the gorge in a supporting role... asides from walls of lame, hives, towers for upgrades, and base defenses, a gorge can *support* with construction by giving a forward attack squad some D towers for healing, or a sensory tower for early-warning, or O towers for covering fire.
Babblers are one of the ultimate support weapons... almost useless by themselves, babblers do serve a few nifty roles in combat... chasing down webbed marines, tearing up buildings while the skulks whip around, and drawing turret fire away from the skulks as they go in.
Given this, the fact that a gorge can help out on an assault by spraying up a bunch of webbing ahead of the assault force or slowing down attackers long enough to let a skulk rip 'em a new one seems to fit it's role perfectly...
Honestly.. that's like saying that the Marines should have Engineers who have no weapons besides a BB gun, but they're the only ones who can actually build the structures that the Comm drops.
My two best webbing stories:
1) I was a 3-hive gorge, approaching the Marine Start on Nancy from Mother (aka Nameless) Hive via the right-hand tunnels. I had just thrown up a web at about knee-height when I heard a marine clink-clinking down the hallway. I froze, and cloaked just as he entered the room. He stood on the far side of the web, scanning the room, but eventually gave up, hopped the web, and ran on through.
Well, I quickly threw up a second web at chest height and ran around the corner. Sure enough, the marine came back to investigate... moments later, I heard the wet wrapping sound of webs hitting a marine body. I quickly threw 4 babblers around the corner and waddled my fat little gorge butt into the room, re-cloaking as they tore him apart. I chuckled, then headed on to chamber up the room outside the MS. (:
2) I was a 2-hive gorge happily minding my own business, building up around Eclipse Command hive. All of a sudden I hear our cursory fortifications in Triad come under attack and quickly fall. I start yelling for backup, that I've got incoming and I'm all alone, as I throw down webs in the corridor leading from Triad to EC. Moments later, 3 HAs step into the hallway, and again that delightful sound of a helpless marine. (:
I tossed a few more webs onto them (aim at a wall or floor on either side of a marine to catch him instantly), and then dropped a pair of OCs. More webs, and healing spray... then an OC on the far side of the trio. More webs! Healing spray... and then a pair of Skulks showed up and finished the job. It was beautiful.
For some reason that made me crack up.
And to my mind at least, webs are fine. The only thing about webs I have a problem with, and this doesn't really apply to the alien side, it bugs me that JPers can zoom around with welder on and be immune to webs. I think there should be, at the very least, a % chance of being webbed while moving extremely fast.
LMAO!