Sticking My Nose Where It Doesn't Belong
Iden
Join Date: 2002-10-16 Member: 1513Members
Join Date: 2002-10-16 Member: 1513Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Is what I do natrually.</div> This goes out to RED, egc, EC, sYn, TAU, TE and all the rest:
I'll get right to the meat of it: Have any of you tried sensory or movement first instead?
Wait, don't hurt me! Hear me out!
I've been watching all the demos I can. I've seen most of your complains about marines being too strong in beginning game, and how weak skulks are. That one guy in red took out... what... eight skulks on Foreboding antechamber during the RED vs TAU match? Not all at once, but you get my point.
I've noticed most of the rushes that involve skulks running or even bouncing around like a rubber ball on speed fail: fail. Of all the demos I've seen so far skulks head on are shot up like Swiss cheese. During the rushes on marine base by TAU to RED they'd hear TAU coming into the base and they had plenty of warning time about your incoming raid. Or if you had cloaking it would of been easier to camp their base exits, or your own hives from jet packers. Cloaking forces them to deviate in their tech rush and grab MT instead, that's what... 45 res they have to distract elsewhere? I've noticed cloak horrible demoralizes marines. They become less willing to charge out, they waste ammo shooting at stray corners. Best of all cloaking chambers are cheaper than Def chambers and you receive it's full effect on the first chamber.
Silence allows you to sneak up behind others or drop from above without being heard. Celerity provides the true speed you're looking for if you enjoy the "bouncy" skulk approach, and adrenaline's great if you have to fall back to lerking or are munching on a CC (you run out of energy before you can finish.).
I'm just asking if any Clans out there have tried deviating from D->M->S. DMS has been around since the very start of NS, and is popular on Pubs and Clans right off, but usually Clans are innovative thinkers. Clans were the first to come up with marine rushes and tech rushes. JP rushes were "old" before they seeped into pub play.
Thoughts on this? Any clans going to try it out? Have tried it out?
I'll get right to the meat of it: Have any of you tried sensory or movement first instead?
Wait, don't hurt me! Hear me out!
I've been watching all the demos I can. I've seen most of your complains about marines being too strong in beginning game, and how weak skulks are. That one guy in red took out... what... eight skulks on Foreboding antechamber during the RED vs TAU match? Not all at once, but you get my point.
I've noticed most of the rushes that involve skulks running or even bouncing around like a rubber ball on speed fail: fail. Of all the demos I've seen so far skulks head on are shot up like Swiss cheese. During the rushes on marine base by TAU to RED they'd hear TAU coming into the base and they had plenty of warning time about your incoming raid. Or if you had cloaking it would of been easier to camp their base exits, or your own hives from jet packers. Cloaking forces them to deviate in their tech rush and grab MT instead, that's what... 45 res they have to distract elsewhere? I've noticed cloak horrible demoralizes marines. They become less willing to charge out, they waste ammo shooting at stray corners. Best of all cloaking chambers are cheaper than Def chambers and you receive it's full effect on the first chamber.
Silence allows you to sneak up behind others or drop from above without being heard. Celerity provides the true speed you're looking for if you enjoy the "bouncy" skulk approach, and adrenaline's great if you have to fall back to lerking or are munching on a CC (you run out of energy before you can finish.).
I'm just asking if any Clans out there have tried deviating from D->M->S. DMS has been around since the very start of NS, and is popular on Pubs and Clans right off, but usually Clans are innovative thinkers. Clans were the first to come up with marine rushes and tech rushes. JP rushes were "old" before they seeped into pub play.
Thoughts on this? Any clans going to try it out? Have tried it out?
Comments
The problem lies in that a fast marine rush will come before you have any chambers up ... and as it is, going res node first is most efficient on some maps/hives.
Its not only carapace thats the problem... if they somehow repeatedly hit your hive, you lack the healing power of the DC's.... and any kind of hive rush needs not only the healing from the hive but from the DC's also.
Movement for celerity or silence is a lot better than sensory imo, but still very weak.
Observatory tech tree counters both of those chambers and will result in the aliens never getting 2 hives.
Not only that, 2 hive fade/lerk combo is dependant on the carapce/adrenlaine combo, so sensory is definitly out of the question.
I've seen some of the clans above use sensory first, and they pretty much have to outplay the marine team to barely get 2nd hive... even then it makes what could have been a 15-20 min game into a 30-1 hour game.
For this patch sadly def first is still the best.
listen to borf.
pandas|snakpak
#poop in irc... i mean... #pandas
Oh gods. I thought this damn argument was restricted to the Kharaa Strategy forum. This chamber order argument is like a freaking Hydra.
eR [ lagger ] #er
1: Early marines own early skulks. What 9 lmg rounds per skulk?
2:Aliens are defensive they have to hold 2 hives from word go plus defend gorg, maps are quite large.
3:9/10 a Rushing marine team always takes it objective. 6 marines vs 1 or 2 spread thin skulks is the norm.
4:Early skulks do well when there in ambush. Great. But how does it solve 3: ? how do rushing non cara skulks take camped marines who kill in 9 rounds?
theres only one solution.Carapace.
Sensory first then they hide for the most part, outside the spawn, in hive locations, etc. Sensory is pretty much guaranteed survival for the gorge in a hive location. All you do is run around until you hear the distinctive noises of a light marine(s) walking/running/bunnyhopping over to you then you hide and tell your team you need some back up or go combat gorge and run around heal spraying them to death. Also with scent of fear...its a good chance a lot of people have been bitten by a skulk once before and got knocked back 52 health...so they're guaranteed to show up on your hive site. And last but not least the usefulness of enhanced site. You can hide in a dark room, vent, or hallway (like the one in hera outside marine spawn) and you have SUCH an advantage over them. They can't see you, but they're lit up like a christmas tree to you. Even if you give yourself away then you still have such an advantage over him. The most he can do is put on his light and bunny hop around trying to find you.
Movement first is also useful. A lot of the tactics with this up will be hit and run. Sure you will get idiots who try and go head on into a crowd of marines, die and whine at the "n00b gorge" for building a movement first. But for those who dont, then for the most part you have skulks with celerity running around harassing small groups then running away. It will distract the commander because people will constantly be asking for health or a new weapon because they just died. With adreniline(sp) you can have multiple skulks munching on a res tower. The commander most of the time doesn't send anyone to rescue it and early on in the game he won't have it defended so you can easily put them down on their resources early on in the game. A fatal tactic once you get fades. And silence...i can't stress the importance of silence for a skulk. You don't make the growling noise when you fall, you don't make the very distinctive noise of a skulk running, and to the lone marine with his back turned...he's screwed.
I hope this helps.
thats fine, but what happens if aliens have to ambush marines? without caparace/regen you are pretty much doomed at one hive stage :/ see senschambers wont help taking out a turretfarm, defense and movement chambers do. If marines get to secure 2 hives or some nodes and a hive the game is IMO pretty much over with sensory because your skulks are lacking some serious offense power.
ive said that 21908419028 times
<i>edit:</i> oopsie, didn't see AcKz
thats fine, but what happens if aliens have to ambush marines? without caparace/regen you are pretty much doomed at one hive stage :/ see senschambers wont help taking out a turretfarm, defense and movement chambers do. If marines get to secure 2 hives or some nodes and a hive the game is IMO pretty much over with sensory because your skulks are lacking some serious offense power. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
why would you build a turret farm in a scrim?
Carapace makes you take more shots. Counter is to tech up weapons. Weapons tech costs res.
Kharaa win by not letting marines spend res on what they want to. Any questions?
Carapace makes you take more shots. Counter is to tech up weapons. Weapons tech costs res.
Kharaa win by not letting marines spend res on what they want to. Any questions?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if the marines plan was to tech up weapons anyway? Can you always pay attention to something you cant hear? I mean, are all "competent marines" capable of dealing with skulks without MT and silence on most encounters?
If it's the case that, even if you could get the drop on marines with movement and sensory upgrades, you still die no matter what (ie 2 skulks ambush 4 marines, and can only kill 1 marine, time and time again), then I guess defense upgrades are the only way to go.