Commanding On Public Servers
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Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12092Members
Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12092Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Ideas to lower the blood pressure ..</div> Right first up this is not a newbie bashing post, or even a publics vs clan flame war. This post is all to do with my experiences on commanding on publics. Now it follows on publics that there is never time to discuss tactics until you are in game, and that as a commander you have to allow for different levels of ability. This effectively means that you have to be extra 'aware' as a commander on a public and be able to change your plan quickly to counter not only the in game events, but also your own marines.
Before I go on, I would add that I do not have the perfect commander's record, and have on occassion been completely out witted by an organised Kharaa strategy. Right, down to the meat of this posts. Things to be aware of on public servers as a commander.
<b>Be careful with Jet Pacs. HA is a better investment as the first prototype to be researched.</b>
Let me just say I love jet pacs. How else can you have fun sieging Viaduct from the Red Room on ns_nothing! How else can you fly around goading skuls mid air. The problem though, as has been observed on a previous post, is as soon as you dish them out your fellow marine get pac happy and zoom off to all of those hard to reach places on the map. Then once dead they know you have them and that they cost peanuts so they hang around waiting for the next one. AT one point on ns_nothing recently, I had 1 marine in the rafters of silo 'requesting' a PG, one marine in the red room demanding a CC, and one marine on the walkway at viaduct asking for a TF. All good ideas but given they were there on their own any build would have eaten in seconds (FYI I choose the red room option but the sound of the building drew too much attention!). Now this is not a dig at marines, I myslef do the same as a marine! NS is fun, Jet Pacs are fun, but if you want to command and keep your troops as a cohesive unit then think about HA rather than Jet Pacs.
<b>Armoury humping is a fact of life</b>
I have lost count of the number of times I have screamed / requested / coerced / bribed marines to go straight to the PG at spawn instead of having a bit of quality 1 on 1 action with the armoury. Some go straight through, some pick up 2 clips then go, some pick up 250 rounds of spare ammo then waddle over to the PG. Now this isn't great for your team as the PG is normally gone (especially in 1.04) and the few brave souls who jump through are never supported to hold the position. Now this is a fact of life, and as such you have to make allowances for it in your commanding. Some tactics I employ include defending PG's with mines early game, building PGs near res so a TF is a worthy investment, tucking the PG away in the corner away from Lerks. You can never expect a public marine team to move en masse through a PG they always go sporadically so think about your PG placement to ensure maximum survivability.
<b>Fades, Turrets and the Tech Rush</b>
Marines just want to have fun. All public players are there to have fun and win. In clan games the team win is more important than the individual's enjoyment and therefore asking them to stay in one spot defending res while you tech rush is a viable option (i.e. the enjoyment comes from the win more than the actual quality of game). On publics the rush is harder and should be heavily considered before being employed. The reason? Marines want to help, they like getting to the hive first and being the marine who built the phase gate. They like trying to secure the second hive and the fire fight that ensues. They dont like hanging around at base while the comm waits patiently for the res for arms factories and prototypes labs. I am not snubbing the tech rush but suggest that it is a much more viable tactic if you fail to secure the second hive (i.e. mid game).
Turrets should always be employed wherever possible at hives, bases and double res points (not singles!). Turrets annoy the hell out of public Kharaa teams. They provide an sense of progress for the marines, and they give a commander the vital time he will need to get a response team together. Turrets in clan games are not woth the investment. Basically the more organised your opponent, the less effective turrets become.
Lastly Fades (and I think this is already happening in 1.04) are no longer the impossible aliens they once were. Wherever possible congratulate marines who kill a Fade. It shows the newer memebers of the team it is possible and lets the team strive for more kills. Tactics I use include supporting the hive or base depending on the attack point with a siege. There is nothing worse than nearly killing a fade and having in regenerate just round the corner. If he makes a run for it, then make sure he has to run far. Also with Fades it sometimes becomes all encompassing for the marines. Keep the second hive in mind and keep getting them moving in groups.
Just thinking aloud ...
Before I go on, I would add that I do not have the perfect commander's record, and have on occassion been completely out witted by an organised Kharaa strategy. Right, down to the meat of this posts. Things to be aware of on public servers as a commander.
<b>Be careful with Jet Pacs. HA is a better investment as the first prototype to be researched.</b>
Let me just say I love jet pacs. How else can you have fun sieging Viaduct from the Red Room on ns_nothing! How else can you fly around goading skuls mid air. The problem though, as has been observed on a previous post, is as soon as you dish them out your fellow marine get pac happy and zoom off to all of those hard to reach places on the map. Then once dead they know you have them and that they cost peanuts so they hang around waiting for the next one. AT one point on ns_nothing recently, I had 1 marine in the rafters of silo 'requesting' a PG, one marine in the red room demanding a CC, and one marine on the walkway at viaduct asking for a TF. All good ideas but given they were there on their own any build would have eaten in seconds (FYI I choose the red room option but the sound of the building drew too much attention!). Now this is not a dig at marines, I myslef do the same as a marine! NS is fun, Jet Pacs are fun, but if you want to command and keep your troops as a cohesive unit then think about HA rather than Jet Pacs.
<b>Armoury humping is a fact of life</b>
I have lost count of the number of times I have screamed / requested / coerced / bribed marines to go straight to the PG at spawn instead of having a bit of quality 1 on 1 action with the armoury. Some go straight through, some pick up 2 clips then go, some pick up 250 rounds of spare ammo then waddle over to the PG. Now this isn't great for your team as the PG is normally gone (especially in 1.04) and the few brave souls who jump through are never supported to hold the position. Now this is a fact of life, and as such you have to make allowances for it in your commanding. Some tactics I employ include defending PG's with mines early game, building PGs near res so a TF is a worthy investment, tucking the PG away in the corner away from Lerks. You can never expect a public marine team to move en masse through a PG they always go sporadically so think about your PG placement to ensure maximum survivability.
<b>Fades, Turrets and the Tech Rush</b>
Marines just want to have fun. All public players are there to have fun and win. In clan games the team win is more important than the individual's enjoyment and therefore asking them to stay in one spot defending res while you tech rush is a viable option (i.e. the enjoyment comes from the win more than the actual quality of game). On publics the rush is harder and should be heavily considered before being employed. The reason? Marines want to help, they like getting to the hive first and being the marine who built the phase gate. They like trying to secure the second hive and the fire fight that ensues. They dont like hanging around at base while the comm waits patiently for the res for arms factories and prototypes labs. I am not snubbing the tech rush but suggest that it is a much more viable tactic if you fail to secure the second hive (i.e. mid game).
Turrets should always be employed wherever possible at hives, bases and double res points (not singles!). Turrets annoy the hell out of public Kharaa teams. They provide an sense of progress for the marines, and they give a commander the vital time he will need to get a response team together. Turrets in clan games are not woth the investment. Basically the more organised your opponent, the less effective turrets become.
Lastly Fades (and I think this is already happening in 1.04) are no longer the impossible aliens they once were. Wherever possible congratulate marines who kill a Fade. It shows the newer memebers of the team it is possible and lets the team strive for more kills. Tactics I use include supporting the hive or base depending on the attack point with a siege. There is nothing worse than nearly killing a fade and having in regenerate just round the corner. If he makes a run for it, then make sure he has to run far. Also with Fades it sometimes becomes all encompassing for the marines. Keep the second hive in mind and keep getting them moving in groups.
Just thinking aloud ...
Comments
I don't know much about clan games, since I play only for fun and thus at pub servers.
I haven't even had a chance to play at clan servers since I don't belong in a clan. Still I think I should try a clan play sometimes because I get frustrated seeing single players trying to play heroes all the time. Pub players just don't get it: NS isn't Half-Life, player really isn't a hero who can slaughter dozens of enemies.
So, how to command those dudes living in dreamworld?
Give LOTS of orders and wish that aliens are unskilled as well. Since marines want attention, order troops to defend structures, move to waypoints etc.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> If you are lucky half of marines follow orders. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think Im already suffering from RSI - do I sue Flayra? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>CONSTANT</b> communication is the key. Be personal, use their handles when talking them. Always let them know what you're doing so they don't start bugging you for HMGs/HA when you're saving up for tech upgrades. They'll be a lot more willing to go along with you if you take charge and don't leave them out of the loop.
This is how I've kept my sanity on pubs. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
also be carefull when telling numbers to guard things, if you say "skulks at base need 2 marines here" half of your team will come back to base leaving essential areas unguarded.
What else can you do except laugh? I then research JP/HMG and go try kill a hive. I just type "LOL - you *completely* ignored me, thats pretty impressive"
In a game earlier today we I got a pg+tf+4turrets+seige *inside* their 2nd hive. They had just got fades(one or two) but they were at our base so we we able to seige to hive quite a bit before fades got there. Then the comm was screaming for someone other than me to go thru the phase(kept dieing). It was 7 aside and *everyone* else was at base. I was almost **** myself. The comm was having a heart attack. I even had time to type to him "Marines are very sleepy".
Well, some tips:
1. Always talk. Give them a clue of what's going on.
2. Be personal. Everyone will assume someone else will do the job and not take the initiative.
3. Never trust your marines to do defensive work. Always make 3 TFs, 15 Turrets, 30 mines at each base, and an extra CC with IP. I'm serious. Basically: Patch up holes in your automated defenses because your marines will not likely fill it.
I always count on mines first to do the defending too. I use PG > ARMORY > MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE. If I had a good team I wouldn't need the nearby armory, but it at least keeps them put and let them hump the armory at the hive rather than at base. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Jetpacks are "teh win" in scrims. They are godly, and can rarely be beaten. They are cheap, effective, and when you add an HMG with upgrades, and MT, you are in a 2 hive lockdown situation. Noobs, strangely, know this. They can't hit anything, and some have the collective IQ of a potato, but they know JP's are cheap. They know skulks can't hit them if they hold down the jump button for a long time.
When you research HA's, you realize no one really asks for one. You give a couple of your best marines the full set, HMG/HA/Welder or GL/HA/Welder, and they do their job. I've seen many a noob content simply following these heroes.
Conclusion: In pubs, HA's are god, because you can choose exactly who you find most effective with this combination. 2-4 good players with sets + welding each other + my carpet HP spamming = Game Over Kharaa
I completely disagree with this 1.
Eventhough HA can indeed make a big difference, the problem with public servers is that there is often a lack of teamwork-spirit. A team of HA marines with welders and HMG is ofcourse the worst nightmare of every alien, but marines often tend to run alone instead of forming 1 HA team. As soon as a marine gets HA (I've seen it happen a MILLION times over) he jumps to the nearest PG and gets in the heat of battle. And before you know it a little skulk (or fade <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) kills him and he starts crying for HA again. Concider that heavy armor costs 50 resources to invent and 25 per HA. That's VERY expensive and requires many RT's. You also need welders, so that also costs 10 per welder.
Compare that to the jetpack, which only costs 25 ressources to invent and costs only 9 res per JP. That means that the research will save you 25 res, and you can drop 3 JP's for the same price as 1 HA plus a JPer doesn't need to have a welder. JPers are diffucult to hit for fades, and impossable for skulks (if you use the JP right <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) It's true that many JPers often fly of to the weirdest spots of a map and cry for buildings. But when you play in a team of 12v12 and every1 is equipped with a JP and HMG, the damage to the aliens can be REAL big.
The fun really starts when the JP'ers get a HMG. You set a WP to a hive and tell all 11 marines with HMG's to kill the hive... Practically an unstoppable force for aliens.
I was commanding in a game yesterday, 12v12 in ns_hera. I had captured 1 extra nozzle and upgraded the armory inmediatly. Soon after that I invented JP's and dropped tons of em. Result? 11 Marines flying towards all hives with their HMG.... an instoppable force for aliens.... the gam already ended after 10 - 15 minutes.
So don't discard the JP so fast and remember that JP also has it's upsides <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->