I have a seperate idea for nukes... Starship troopers anyone? Nukes would be: -Researchable gun at the top of the tech tree. -Cost 100 or so resources (enough to make it a trade off and prevent spamming). -A dropped gun requiring the Nuke Factory to be built.
Dropped gun? Huh? Let me explain. The commander would drop one, replacing slots 1 AND 2 (defensless carrier means teamwork to protect nuke bearer.) Those in possession would move at HA speed (maybe slower) and you cannot pick up jp or ha while wearing it. The gun has a single shot, not subject to 'ammo drops' like trip mines. It fires like a missle launcher and 'sticks'. It can be destroyed with a concentrated Kharra effort, although pressing 'fire' again once the nuke has been shot will detonate it. 1 Nuke should be able to kill an all aliens and a wall of lame. 3 or so should take down a hive.
The logic: At the top of the tech tree, it allows Marines dedicated to marine Ideals (working as a team) to have a option againts 3 hive aliens. Because of the defenselessness of the Nuker, a squad of JP/HAed as well as regular (to grab the droppd nuke in the Worst Case) would be needed to carry out the mission. It also adds a sense of urgency for the aliens to finish off the marines asap, since a dedicated marine team could quickly turn the tide- no more long drawn out alien seiges.
im seeing fade spam to take down the nuke bearer and any other LA marines. thus rendering a 100 res weapon useless, that will most likely dissapear before anyone can get back to pick it up. Would make comms even more frustrated, and less inclined to use them (Is very costly gamble)
Heck, even a bloody lerk will render it useless (Gas out coridoor with marine advancing, LA marines will die too fast or at least be too weakened, and if they move at HA speed, they most likely wont be able to outrun the gas cloud) Or a skulk with Xenocide, Wont kill the Heavies, but if hes smart, he hides and goes for the Nuke man and maybe his backup too.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
personally I was thinking it could be a building that has to be buit by the marines. But for every time you build it you first have to research Nuke Call at the Observatory so the support ship can phase it in. And maybe have it so you can only research Nuke call after an onos has been sighted or something
A nuke should require a building (nuke factory) that requires the arms lab and proto lab. The nuke then needs to be built. The nuke THEN needs to be carried to a hive. A LMG marine can carry it, unless you want to make it harder on the marines and make a HA carry it. Once placed or dropped, the nuke gets activated by a commander and then ticks down. Boom. Area becomes radioactive to marines but can still support the Kharaa, but not their structures.. so a hive can't just be plopped down again.
The thing is, people are saying this should be a third-hive ability for marines. Most marines lose the game against two-hive aliens (fades, lerks) and not Onos. Maybe we should take a look at THAT instead of concentrating on the end-game.
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Feb 7 2003, 07:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Feb 7 2003, 07:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The facts about the nuke:
1) At the top of the marine tech tree, requiring an advanced armory and prototype lab, was the Nuke Factory. Once built, the commander could drop nukes.
2) A nuke cost somewhere between 70 and 100 RPs; I forget the exact number, but it was a lot.
3) A nuke was an item, dropped like ammo or health - anywhere on the map.
4) Nukes did not have to be built, but did have a countdown timer. In this time, they could be destroyed by aliens, but had a decent amount of health. It usually took 2 skulks to bite a nuke to death before it blew.
5) It took ~3 nukes to kill a hive.
Nukes were intended to "soften up" or finish off hives. They were removed because they allowed an extremely viable and very dull tactic: tech to nukes and then do nothing. When RPs reached about 1000 (not long, if you're not buying anything), the commander scanned each hive, and dropped 3-5 nukes in any active ones. Then the marines moved out to mop up what was left. It required no teamwork - hell, it required no ACTION - and was virtually unstoppable. Even if all the aliens were in a hive at the time of the attack (and the commander could have simply waited), they couldn't destroy 3-5 nukes in each hive before enough went off to take down the hives.
They may return in the future. My personal opinion is to make the Nuke Factory work like the equivalent in Starcraft - each individual nuke must be *built* before it can be used. Then I'd like to see either a marine spotter, or the nuke carried to the location by the a marine, or a marine must plant and activate a beacon - something like that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you... you have satified my curiosity.... for now! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> From reading that information I can see why it was removed. Whats the fun in just defending the base and sitting back to wait for the res to nuke the hives to pieces? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
A nuke should require a building (nuke factory) that requires the arms lab and proto lab. The nuke then needs to be built. The nuke THEN needs to be carried to a hive. A LMG marine can carry it, unless you want to make it harder on the marines and make a HA carry it. Once placed or dropped, the nuke gets activated by a commander and then ticks down. Boom. Area becomes radioactive to marines but can still support the Kharaa, but not their structures.. so a hive can't just be plopped down again.
The thing is, people are saying this should be a third-hive ability for marines. Most marines lose the game against two-hive aliens (fades, lerks) and not Onos. Maybe we should take a look at THAT instead of concentrating on the end-game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Umm yeah. The nuke would be useless then. If you can get to the hive anyway AND defend the nuke for long enough so it goes off AND have enough res to get it in the first place, why in the world wouldn't you just go in with HA marines or better yet JP/HMG people? Nobody, and I mean. NOBODY will ever use a nuke like you described. And the radiation can still support kharaa but not marines? Damn...that makes the nuke from worthless to helps the aliens.
I find it extremely hard to believe that the aliens wouldnt just get the entire map's RTs and kill unarmored lmg marines with onos,lerks or fades.....
Cmon 3 RP for the base RT +1 from command nextwork is going to take YEARS to get the resources for the nukes to kill 3 hives.
Unless you meant that the marines got MAD loads of resource in the alpha versions.......
I think nuke could be balanced NOW since its impossible to get enough res for ha/hmg with 1 RT only before they get fades.....forget about 210-300 RP nukes for each hive.
I like the idea of the nuke, but the implementation of it into the game would have to be very finely balanced. One nuke wiping out the map wouldn't be a goer, but seeing white and the whole map shaking would be killer for the atmosphere. I think they should have to be built at the location theyre set at and they should be desructable by the aliens. Top of the tech tree definatly, and I mean TOP, past the prototype lab and then the nuke factory, then research for the nuke. I like the idea of having them available only at the 3rd hive, but the way the game works now a lot of games are over once the second hive goes up, although ha/hmgs can take down fades...
"TSA Command Network Message transmittion. Message recieved at Mission Time +3hr 10min 24sec. Location confirmed: Hera Mining Facility. Message follows:
CONFIDENTIAL: For base Commander only!
Hera mission confirmed failure, infestation levels reaching saturation levels throughout facility. Highest level evolutions of Kharaa confirmed in sections 3 through 8. In light of this situtation TSA high command, in conjuction with Hera Base Managment, have authorised nuclear release. Repeat: nuclear release has been authorised. Base integrity of secondary consideration to destruction of infestation. Code transmittion commencing..........................................................................................................codes transmitted. Nanite nuclear assembly blueprints unlocked. Extraction of fissionable material from availble resource nodes approved. Good luck commander"
Message ends.
Well they would be cool <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> But balance the damn things first!
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure"
2 hives CAN be destroyed by marines, as long as they have enough res. lots of commanders just try to take hives, and forget about resources. so... i dont really see the necessity in the nuke, although it sure can be implemented. i dont see how the aliens have THAT MUCH time when marines are just defending base, and not being able to destroy them. nukes should be like in starcraft, like the other guy said. u get silos after a proto lab is up, and each silo can hold one nuke. more silos for more nukes, but silos should cost a HELL lot. i dont care how the nuke is activated, as long as its balanced. and i think that the "aliens have to have 3 hives to get a nuke" thing is just stupid. no point, no balance, no sense.
Having marines carry it to the hive would be bloody useless.
As someone mentioned.....acid rocket spam,spore cloud,even an accidental touch by an onos.Oops.Crap loads of res down the drain.
An alternative idea is to have a marine with a "laser sight" or something....perhaps 2nd or 4th slot?To mark the area for some time then the commander could phase a nuke in....could be destroyed though,but it would have to take a LOT of effort to do so.Otherwise all you have to do as aliens to prevent against the nuke would be to see which areas they are coming from(via hive sight or from structure under attack),rush to the hive there,wait for commander to drop a nuke,then half keeps the marines busy while the other half eats the nuke.
Another idea would be "mini nukes" that could be set off with a MUCH shorter timer than normal nukes and have less HP but do less damage.....okay...lets say.....3-4 to kill a hive...1-2 normal nukes to kill a hive.....(normal nukes have more chance of being gangchomped by the kharaa).
With the whole defenseless nuke carrier, that'd increase teamwork twenty fold, I'd say. Clearing a hive would be so much more exciting, too.
Imagine: You're all making your way down a long hallway, the nuke carrier in the middle of five other Marines. Suddenly a skulk drops from the ceiling and takes out your point man before the rest of the team blasts him into oblivion. When you get into the hive and put the nuke down, all hell breaks loose and skulks just come out of the walls and attack.
Very atmospheric. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But then again, think of how hard it'd be to get that guy there if he moved that slow. If you were to make it a carry to the hive nuke, I'd suggest upping the damage, maybe making even just 1 nuke destroy a hive. The aliens have so many chances to kill the nuke carrier that having to put three in one hive doesn't seem like it'd be very cost effective.
<!--QuoteBegin--Duff-Man+Feb 14 2003, 07:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Duff-Man @ Feb 14 2003, 07:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I like Jammer's idea here.
With the whole defenseless nuke carrier, that'd increase teamwork twenty fold, I'd say. Clearing a hive would be so much more exciting, too.
Imagine: You're all making your way down a long hallway, the nuke carrier in the middle of five other Marines. Suddenly a skulk drops from the ceiling and takes out your point man before the rest of the team blasts him into oblivion. When you get into the hive and put the nuke down, all hell breaks loose and skulks just come out of the walls and attack.
Very atmospheric. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But then again, think of how hard it'd be to get that guy there if he moved that slow. If you were to make it a carry to the hive nuke, I'd suggest upping the damage, maybe making even just 1 nuke destroy a hive. The aliens have so many chances to kill the nuke carrier that having to put three in one hive doesn't seem like it'd be very cost effective. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The probelm with the escort strategy :
*2-3 fades jump around the corner,fire a few acid rockets,jump back.Ooops the splash killed the nuke carrier.Ooopsssssssss 100 res gone.Ooopssssss no one is ever going to use nukes*.
<!--QuoteBegin--MMZ>Torak+Feb 7 2003, 04:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Feb 7 2003, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->MedHead, Nukes would be: expensive, time consuming, and destroyable. They would (in my little version of NS that lives in my head <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) only be available when the kharaa attained three hives. that coupled with my previous statement, would mean that only a poorly coordinated Alien team or very good main base defenses and good marines, would ever see nukes. IMHO it's always nice to know that there is a chance to come back, even if it didn't come around very often. It would also encourage the kharaa not to linger and to finish off the marines ASAP, you dont want to let one or 2 slip by.....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> TORAK: has the best ideas for the Nuke! While the Nuke research can be done at any time and the Nuke lab can be built at any time, the TSA will not provide the detination codes until they consider the Station/Base/Ship/Outpost lost to the Kharaa (3 Hives Up). REQUIRMENTS TO USE THE NUKE <ul> <li>You have to Research a Nuke Lab <li>You have to Build the nuke lab <li>To create a Nuke would cost 70 Res <li>Only 2 can be crated at any one time <li>The soldier who the Comm Gives the Nuke, can't have any other guns! <li>Other soldiers would have to protect the nuke carrier <li>Once the nuke is placed, it has to be Built (15 seconds) <li>Once Built the comm gets an Arm message <li>If 2 Bombs are placed, the Arm cmd that the commander gets will activate them both at the same time <li>Until its armed it <b>CAN</b> be destroyed <li>Once its armed it can't be destroyed by force <li>The Nuke has a 1 minute Timer <li>The Nuke Flashes Red, has a visable Timer on it and beeps, getting louder/faster closer to detination <li>Only a Gorge can Disarm it with Heal Spray (bacteria shorts it out) <li>It takes a gorge 1 min to disarm, 2 gorges 30 seconds, 3 gorges 15 seconds, 4 gorges 7 seconds <li>Once the Nuke goes off it delivers 5000 points of damage to a 40' radious <li>A blinding flash and Booming sound can be seen and heard <li>Everything in the area is burned and smoking <li>Marines and Kharaa alike can be killed by a NUKE! </ul>
The commander can research a nuke upgrade to create a nuke lab at any time, it would cost a few res to do this, but until the 3rd hive is up, he can't create a nuke. This would allow the Marines the ability to be ready for that 3rd hive, but not being able to do anything about it until, they have the authorization from the TSA. I think that this would be a last resort, once the 3rd Hive is up, unless the nuke carrier is guarded well (3 HA/HMG/GL) hes going to get smoked by a ONOS, so he needs a good guard assortment!
This may be the ultimate weapon, but the requirments make it very hard to get and use! I think its more than fair for the Kharaa, its balanced by its requirments, which are extencive.
The advantages are obvious, 2 hives can be destroyed at once if 2 nukes are placed, but that would be very hard to do and if you read what I think should be required, you can see it would be a major undertaking!
This is how the post 1.1 Nuke should be! I think this would give the Marines a POWERFUL chance to come back, but the risks are very great, and it would be something of a one time shot deal, due to the resorces involved! Feel Free to expand on what I have posted! But read it over and understand that its not as simple as the original nuke and it would take alot of effort to get 2 off!
<!--QuoteBegin--+Hozart++Feb 7 2003, 09:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (+Hozart+ @ Feb 7 2003, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Give marines more of a chance to come back from 3 hive conclusion, however, the aliens receive squat. Two-hive lockdown and the aliens are screwed. Jetpack rush killing off the hives and the aliens are screwed (esp. with the count-down crap).
The aliens at least have the ability to completely wipe out the marines without some cheesy tactic to do so unless the marines are REALLY bad.
Nukes cannot be put in, unless the aliens get something too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I second this, if playing as aliens, you work your butt off to get 3 hives. In 1.04 it means that you control all the key sections of the map ergo you should by default win because the aliens have the highest tech.
With nukes it will enable marines to comeback from this situation. Its almost like saying, the aliens should have some last resort weapon when all 3 hives go down and are controled by the rines :/
Well.. I like the idea that people are willing to add some spice to NS, and will take thier time to post to do so... however, I think that nukes R nerfed so badly with what was said, it won't be seen, except in clan matches, with a specific nuke stratedgy.... All in all alot of code/model work, for something to be used, what? 1 every 80+ games? Tried prolly every other game for the first few weeks, then prolly never tried again.... I think that IF nukes were re-added, they'd need to be LESS powerful, and, at best should be a stalemate. But, stalemate's not fun, is it?
Keep in mind..it's not if you win or lose that count's it's the mid game, skulk/marine hunting!! It's the, "OMG what's around that corner?!" that makes the game FUN! I don't know how much nukes would add to that fun... I think that advatages outway the cost of re-doing nuke...
imho its not actually adding anything to NS though. Its just another way that rines can own the aliens. Bear i mind the advantages marines have over aliens. One shot upgrades, relocatable base... and why would putting a nuke into NS make it more fun or add to the atmosphere? surely it'll be like oh we lost one of the hives lets start to proc up the base and save up the rest for nukes. Aliens come screaming in for blood while one marine is hidden in a vent somewhere and trots of to the hives *BOOM*, hmm how cheap would that be. Bear in mind that marines would have lvl 3 armour and weapons at that time etc if they managed to kill the aliens off to 2 hives it is possible for marines to win the game. From my understanding when the aliens get 3 hives and the res to evolve to oni/fades it means the rines are losing badly, so why should they get the *chance* to win from such an easy tactic.
//OT How many thremonuclear reactions do you know that once set off (there is a critical mass or it wont happen) that wont destroy an entire city never mind an installation that you can run from one end to the other in under 1 minute?
Anyway, I feel nuke should stay out of the game. As aliens have no real counter in a similar situation.
Comments
I have a seperate idea for nukes... Starship troopers anyone?
Nukes would be:
-Researchable gun at the top of the tech tree.
-Cost 100 or so resources (enough to make it a trade off and prevent spamming).
-A dropped gun requiring the Nuke Factory to be built.
Dropped gun? Huh? Let me explain.
The commander would drop one, replacing slots 1 AND 2 (defensless carrier means teamwork to protect nuke bearer.) Those in possession would move at HA speed (maybe slower) and you cannot pick up jp or ha while wearing it. The gun has a single shot, not subject to 'ammo drops' like trip mines. It fires like a missle launcher and 'sticks'. It can be destroyed with a concentrated Kharra effort, although pressing 'fire' again once the nuke has been shot will detonate it. 1 Nuke should be able to kill an all aliens and a wall of lame. 3 or so should take down a hive.
The logic: At the top of the tech tree, it allows Marines dedicated to marine Ideals (working as a team) to have a option againts 3 hive aliens. Because of the defenselessness of the Nuker, a squad of JP/HAed as well as regular (to grab the droppd nuke in the Worst Case) would be needed to carry out the mission. It also adds a sense of urgency for the aliens to finish off the marines asap, since a dedicated marine team could quickly turn the tide- no more long drawn out alien seiges.
Heck, even a bloody lerk will render it useless (Gas out coridoor with marine advancing, LA marines will die too fast or at least be too weakened, and if they move at HA speed, they most likely wont be able to outrun the gas cloud) Or a skulk with Xenocide, Wont kill the Heavies, but if hes smart, he hides and goes for the Nuke man and maybe his backup too.
Even when it <b>was</b> used, you still have onos in your spawn... and the gorg will most likely put up another hive within 3 or 4 minutes.
A nuke should require a building (nuke factory) that requires the arms lab and proto lab. The nuke then needs to be built. The nuke THEN needs to be carried to a hive. A LMG marine can carry it, unless you want to make it harder on the marines and make a HA carry it. Once placed or dropped, the nuke gets activated by a commander and then ticks down. Boom. Area becomes radioactive to marines but can still support the Kharaa, but not their structures.. so a hive can't just be plopped down again.
The thing is, people are saying this should be a third-hive ability for marines. Most marines lose the game against two-hive aliens (fades, lerks) and not Onos. Maybe we should take a look at THAT instead of concentrating on the end-game.
1) At the top of the marine tech tree, requiring an advanced armory and prototype lab, was the Nuke Factory. Once built, the commander could drop nukes.
2) A nuke cost somewhere between 70 and 100 RPs; I forget the exact number, but it was a lot.
3) A nuke was an item, dropped like ammo or health - anywhere on the map.
4) Nukes did not have to be built, but did have a countdown timer. In this time, they could be destroyed by aliens, but had a decent amount of health. It usually took 2 skulks to bite a nuke to death before it blew.
5) It took ~3 nukes to kill a hive.
Nukes were intended to "soften up" or finish off hives. They were removed because they allowed an extremely viable and very dull tactic: tech to nukes and then do nothing. When RPs reached about 1000 (not long, if you're not buying anything), the commander scanned each hive, and dropped 3-5 nukes in any active ones. Then the marines moved out to mop up what was left. It required no teamwork - hell, it required no ACTION - and was virtually unstoppable. Even if all the aliens were in a hive at the time of the attack (and the commander could have simply waited), they couldn't destroy 3-5 nukes in each hive before enough went off to take down the hives.
They may return in the future. My personal opinion is to make the Nuke Factory work like the equivalent in Starcraft - each individual nuke must be *built* before it can be used. Then I'd like to see either a marine spotter, or the nuke carried to the location by the a marine, or a marine must plant and activate a beacon - something like that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you... you have satified my curiosity.... for now! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> From reading that information I can see why it was removed. Whats the fun in just defending the base and sitting back to wait for the res to nuke the hives to pieces? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
A nuke should require a building (nuke factory) that requires the arms lab and proto lab. The nuke then needs to be built. The nuke THEN needs to be carried to a hive. A LMG marine can carry it, unless you want to make it harder on the marines and make a HA carry it. Once placed or dropped, the nuke gets activated by a commander and then ticks down. Boom. Area becomes radioactive to marines but can still support the Kharaa, but not their structures.. so a hive can't just be plopped down again.
The thing is, people are saying this should be a third-hive ability for marines. Most marines lose the game against two-hive aliens (fades, lerks) and not Onos. Maybe we should take a look at THAT instead of concentrating on the end-game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm yeah. The nuke would be useless then. If you can get to the hive anyway AND defend the nuke for long enough so it goes off AND have enough res to get it in the first place, why in the world wouldn't you just go in with HA marines or better yet JP/HMG people? Nobody, and I mean. NOBODY will ever use a nuke like you described. And the radiation can still support kharaa but not marines? Damn...that makes the nuke from worthless to helps the aliens.
Cmon 3 RP for the base RT +1 from command nextwork is going to take YEARS to get the resources for the nukes to kill 3 hives.
Unless you meant that the marines got MAD loads of resource in the alpha versions.......
I think nuke could be balanced NOW since its impossible to get enough res for ha/hmg with 1 RT only before they get fades.....forget about 210-300 RP nukes for each hive.
"TSA Command Network Message transmittion. Message recieved at Mission Time +3hr 10min 24sec. Location confirmed: Hera Mining Facility. Message follows:
CONFIDENTIAL: For base Commander only!
Hera mission confirmed failure, infestation levels reaching saturation levels throughout facility. Highest level evolutions of Kharaa confirmed in sections 3 through 8. In light of this situtation TSA high command, in conjuction with Hera Base Managment, have authorised nuclear release. Repeat: nuclear release has been authorised. Base integrity of secondary consideration to destruction of infestation. Code transmittion commencing..........................................................................................................codes transmitted. Nanite nuclear assembly blueprints unlocked. Extraction of fissionable material from availble resource nodes approved. Good luck commander"
Message ends.
Well they would be cool <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> But balance the damn things first!
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure"
so... i dont really see the necessity in the nuke, although it sure can be implemented. i dont see how the aliens have THAT MUCH time when marines are just defending base, and not being able to destroy them. nukes should be like in starcraft, like the other guy said. u get silos after a proto lab is up, and each silo can hold one nuke. more silos for more nukes, but silos should cost a HELL lot. i dont care how the nuke is activated, as long as its balanced. and i think that the "aliens have to have 3 hives to get a nuke" thing is just stupid. no point, no balance, no sense.
As someone mentioned.....acid rocket spam,spore cloud,even an accidental touch by an onos.Oops.Crap loads of res down the drain.
An alternative idea is to have a marine with a "laser sight" or something....perhaps 2nd or 4th slot?To mark the area for some time then the commander could phase a nuke in....could be destroyed though,but it would have to take a LOT of effort to do so.Otherwise all you have to do as aliens to prevent against the nuke would be to see which areas they are coming from(via hive sight or from structure under attack),rush to the hive there,wait for commander to drop a nuke,then half keeps the marines busy while the other half eats the nuke.
Another idea would be "mini nukes" that could be set off with a MUCH shorter timer than normal nukes and have less HP but do less damage.....okay...lets say.....3-4 to kill a hive...1-2 normal nukes to kill a hive.....(normal nukes have more chance of being gangchomped by the kharaa).
With the whole defenseless nuke carrier, that'd increase teamwork twenty fold, I'd say. Clearing a hive would be so much more exciting, too.
Imagine: You're all making your way down a long hallway, the nuke carrier in the middle of five other Marines. Suddenly a skulk drops from the ceiling and takes out your point man before the rest of the team blasts him into oblivion. When you get into the hive and put the nuke down, all hell breaks loose and skulks just come out of the walls and attack.
Very atmospheric. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But then again, think of how hard it'd be to get that guy there if he moved that slow. If you were to make it a carry to the hive nuke, I'd suggest upping the damage, maybe making even just 1 nuke destroy a hive. The aliens have so many chances to kill the nuke carrier that having to put three in one hive doesn't seem like it'd be very cost effective.
With the whole defenseless nuke carrier, that'd increase teamwork twenty fold, I'd say. Clearing a hive would be so much more exciting, too.
Imagine: You're all making your way down a long hallway, the nuke carrier in the middle of five other Marines. Suddenly a skulk drops from the ceiling and takes out your point man before the rest of the team blasts him into oblivion. When you get into the hive and put the nuke down, all hell breaks loose and skulks just come out of the walls and attack.
Very atmospheric. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But then again, think of how hard it'd be to get that guy there if he moved that slow. If you were to make it a carry to the hive nuke, I'd suggest upping the damage, maybe making even just 1 nuke destroy a hive. The aliens have so many chances to kill the nuke carrier that having to put three in one hive doesn't seem like it'd be very cost effective. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The probelm with the escort strategy :
*2-3 fades jump around the corner,fire a few acid rockets,jump back.Ooops the splash killed the nuke carrier.Ooopsssssssss 100 res gone.Ooopssssss no one is ever going to use nukes*.
TORAK: has the best ideas for the Nuke!
While the Nuke research can be done at any time and the Nuke lab can be built at any time, the TSA will not provide the detination codes until they consider the Station/Base/Ship/Outpost lost to the Kharaa (3 Hives Up).
REQUIRMENTS TO USE THE NUKE
<ul>
<li>You have to Research a Nuke Lab
<li>You have to Build the nuke lab
<li>To create a Nuke would cost 70 Res
<li>Only 2 can be crated at any one time
<li>The soldier who the Comm Gives the Nuke, can't have any other guns!
<li>Other soldiers would have to protect the nuke carrier
<li>Once the nuke is placed, it has to be Built (15 seconds)
<li>Once Built the comm gets an Arm message
<li>If 2 Bombs are placed, the Arm cmd that the commander gets will activate them both at the same time
<li>Until its armed it <b>CAN</b> be destroyed
<li>Once its armed it can't be destroyed by force
<li>The Nuke has a 1 minute Timer
<li>The Nuke Flashes Red, has a visable Timer on it and beeps, getting louder/faster closer to detination
<li>Only a Gorge can Disarm it with Heal Spray (bacteria shorts it out)
<li>It takes a gorge 1 min to disarm, 2 gorges 30 seconds, 3 gorges 15 seconds, 4 gorges 7 seconds
<li>Once the Nuke goes off it delivers 5000 points of damage to a 40' radious
<li>A blinding flash and Booming sound can be seen and heard
<li>Everything in the area is burned and smoking
<li>Marines and Kharaa alike can be killed by a NUKE!
</ul>
The commander can research a nuke upgrade to create a nuke lab at any time, it would cost a few res to do this, but until the 3rd hive is up, he can't create a nuke. This would allow the Marines the ability to be ready for that 3rd hive, but not being able to do anything about it until, they have the authorization from the TSA. I think that this would be a last resort, once the 3rd Hive is up, unless the nuke carrier is guarded well (3 HA/HMG/GL) hes going to get smoked by a ONOS, so he needs a good guard assortment!
This may be the ultimate weapon, but the requirments make it very hard to get and use! I think its more than fair for the Kharaa, its balanced by its requirments, which are extencive.
The advantages are obvious, 2 hives can be destroyed at once if 2 nukes are placed, but that would be very hard to do and if you read what I think should be required, you can see it would be a major undertaking!
This is how the post 1.1 Nuke should be!
I think this would give the Marines a POWERFUL chance to come back, but the risks are very great, and it would be something of a one time shot deal, due to the resorces involved!
Feel Free to expand on what I have posted!
But read it over and understand that its not as simple as the original nuke and it would take alot of effort to get 2 off!
Majin
The aliens at least have the ability to completely wipe out the marines without some cheesy tactic to do so unless the marines are REALLY bad.
Nukes cannot be put in, unless the aliens get something too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second this, if playing as aliens, you work your butt off to get 3 hives. In 1.04 it means that you control all the key sections of the map ergo you should by default win because the aliens have the highest tech.
With nukes it will enable marines to comeback from this situation. Its almost like saying, the aliens should have some last resort weapon when all 3 hives go down and are controled by the rines :/
Keep in mind..it's not if you win or lose that count's it's the mid game, skulk/marine hunting!! It's the, "OMG what's around that corner?!" that makes the game FUN! I don't know how much nukes would add to that fun... I think that advatages outway the cost of re-doing nuke...
imho its not actually adding anything to NS though. Its just another way that rines can own the aliens.
Bear i mind the advantages marines have over aliens. One shot upgrades, relocatable base... and why would putting a nuke into NS make it more fun or add to the atmosphere?
surely it'll be like oh we lost one of the hives lets start to proc up the base and save up the rest for nukes. Aliens come screaming in for blood while one marine is hidden in a vent somewhere and trots of to the hives *BOOM*, hmm how cheap would that be. Bear in mind that marines would have lvl 3 armour and weapons at that time etc if they managed to kill the aliens off to 2 hives it is possible for marines to win the game.
From my understanding when the aliens get 3 hives and the res to evolve to oni/fades it means the rines are losing badly, so why should they get the *chance* to win from such an easy tactic.
//OT How many thremonuclear reactions do you know that once set off (there is a critical mass or it wont happen) that wont destroy an entire city never mind an installation that you can run from one end to the other in under 1 minute?
Anyway, I feel nuke should stay out of the game. As aliens have no real counter in a similar situation.
Jim