Dealing With Poor Players
Sling_Blade
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3412Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3412Members, Reinforced - Shadow
I am sure we've all been in the position as commander where your team all shoots like Helen Keller. This is a very frustrating position to be in, and I am going to give a few (probably no brainerr) tips, and I'm hoping other people will add to this as I am sure there are some things I haven't thought of. First of all, I've found that motion tracking can be extremely helpful. Yes, it always is, but it really REALLY is with people who can't shoot our use sound. I always go 2 IPs, Armory, and obs first anyway, so if I see my team is aweful I will just go ahead and research motion tracking, since they won't get to the first hive and hold it without it anyway. Also, getting that first armor upgrade as soon as possible can really help against skulks. This usually will need to come after base defense though... which I am gettig to. The other thing is when you get a group to go where you want when you want you need to watch over them and supply health packs as needed.
Now my real quandry is this. If you have a team that is this bad, you REALLY need some defense in base. However, that is quite expensive and is going to set you back in the game by quite a lot. Any suggestions? I've tried handing out mines and they usually get wasted by idiots who just randomly place them wherever they happened to be looking at the time. It seems like the only solution is turrets :/ Anybody have any suggestions on how to get a team that doesn't work together and can't shoot to win? That is the most frustrating thing for me and I have difficulty dealing with it (especially when they team blames you for losing)
Now my real quandry is this. If you have a team that is this bad, you REALLY need some defense in base. However, that is quite expensive and is going to set you back in the game by quite a lot. Any suggestions? I've tried handing out mines and they usually get wasted by idiots who just randomly place them wherever they happened to be looking at the time. It seems like the only solution is turrets :/ Anybody have any suggestions on how to get a team that doesn't work together and can't shoot to win? That is the most frustrating thing for me and I have difficulty dealing with it (especially when they team blames you for losing)
Comments
I think you are looking for an impossibility.
(1) If the marines won't follow orders, but are individually skilled, you have a (slim) chance.
(2) If the marines will follow orders, but are individually lame, you have a (slim) chance.
(3) If the marines won't follow orders, and have no skills, you have NO chance.
P.S.: That's as it should be. If the marines are a bunch of a**wipes, and they still can win, then the balance of the game must be pretty messed up, don't you think?
If they follow orders but can't shoot then yes you may need base defenses. Generally TF because they won't know how to use mines. BUT you need at least 1 decent person (which you usually have). First few mins send them to gorge hunt, if they bag him twice or once and an RP, you usually have a sufficient advantage to compensate for base defences. The only advantage you get is possibly a level playing field, but its better than one sloped against you.
As for one that doesn't follow orders there is also one hope. Generally they just want toys to play with. To this end hopefully you cap *some* res (if not you lose) then a JP rush(jp only no hmg) on the hives. You'll need to give plenty of notice and a WP, but it can work. Giving JP's buys you maybe 5 minutes of cooperation, you must use it wisely.
I'll say this, I'll follow orders if he actually gives some. Normally I'll find myself with commanders that will build and tech us up but won't actually give orders, which always leaves me with tons of questions.
What hive are we going for?
Does he want me to take out enemy res nodes? (and alert every alien on the map)
Are we sieging or are we running in guns blazing?
What do I do when my squad is killed? Fall Back? Hold Position? or keep moving forward?
How the hell do I get around the map? (Waypoints help us n00bs tons)
I realize you comms can't handhold us every second but a general plan of attack or standing orders would be nice. It seems like commanders too often assume that we should just naturally know what to do. But of course we don't we're n00bs.
I'll say this, I'll follow orders if he actually gives some. Normally I'll find myself with commanders that will build and tech us up but won't actually give orders, which always leaves me with tons of questions.
What hive are we going for?
Does he want me to take out enemy res nodes? (and alert every alien on the map)
Are we sieging or are we running in guns blazing?
What do I do when my squad is killed? Fall Back? Hold Position? or keep moving forward?
How the hell do I get around the map? (Waypoints help us n00bs tons)
I realize you comms can't handhold us every second but a general plan of attack or standing orders would be nice. It seems like commanders too often assume that we should just naturally know what to do. But of course we don't we're n00bs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is to true ive been playing for a while now and i still have alot of these questions.
Commanders dont give WPs more often than not. and this is a big problem they shout down the microphone "go here". which i do. but some ppl need wps they dont know the map and marines dont come with little white circles telling them where the hives are.
90% of games i play in id say i dont get wps. which i beleive is wrong. and most of the time the comm is moaning about his marines. 90% of the comms job is/should be communication.
u are the all seeing all knowing commander. let ur team know whats going on. as i assume ur talking public games here some problems u will face are.
1.) new players (not knowing maps/ not knowing what to do).
2.) new joiners not knowing whats the state of play.
3.) base campers that only like humping the armory
4.) and of course ur rambos
i suggest some of the following if u want player to be in the versinity of hives/mini bases etc..
why build an armory in ur base if most players spend time humping it. build it in hives uve locked down this will make sure u have less players in base and more in the places u need to be. how many times have ur troops come back to base to get ammo and thats when ur mini base has fallen?
get ur rambos on gorge killing as soon as possible.
when i join a public game thats already in progress if there is an active phase gate the first thing i will do is visit every PG location to see what we have locked down etc.
GIVE WAY POINTS!
Then if they do not, just threaten them with the dreaded double post. That will get them defending. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
S
Erm placing an IP means you need to put a CC there aswell doesn't it? This is one thing I'd like to do - making IP's in the hive. Perhaps it would be better if you could place them near any structure?
But my thought is firstly if there going to hump the armoury they'll do it in the hive, where aliens will see 4 juicy marines getting some armoury type lovin' and eat them.
And even after they've sated themselves with ammo, they'll probably run off leaving the PG unguarded.
Not to mention all the confusion it causes. Relocation is a relatively well-known strat but even that leads to chaos, a rare tactic will be even worse.
Each to their own I suppose though, if it works for you by all means do it, I won't moan as a marine.
Then surely they will act like a true addict and just go where the armory is.
then the good players on ur side (assuming there have to be a few in ur team somewhere) will do most of the rest when they follow orders.
it just gives u the few armory humping marines in a place where at least they might be some use even if its to stand in the way of lurk spikes hitting structures
i know if im a 1hive lurk trying to take a pg or tf down at a hive ill think a second time before shooting if there are marines there
And for the record, I have never tried a late game relo... that I can think of. Its so expensive and all. Just a thought to get the humpers to follow the armory.
S
Waypoints. Yes they should be used, but we all know they're a pain to set. Lets hope the dev's let commanders pick and group marines from the HUD next patch rather than trying to pick them out as they scurry round the map.
Clear plain orders and information is essential. If player feel they are part of the team they are more likely to work towards team goals. I normally lay out my base tactics at the beggining of the round, if half the team listens I know it's going to be a good game. <b>"We are going to get resources and tech up to the big guns as soon as possible. Two stay at base, the rest move in groups, avoid confict where possible except for Gorges and Lerks. You kill those suckers every chance you got. OK?"</b>
Use your Rambo's, call them by name<b> "Joe, I have a mission for you are you interested?"</b>. dont waste time on them if they ignore you though.
Do NOT ignore requests, learn to say <b>"No, I am not giving you an HMG, I do not have access to that technology at this time/I do not have the spare resources"</b> follow with <b>"find me two res nodes and build them and you can have an hmg as soon as I can get them"</b> or <b>"secure me a hive location and we'll talk"</b>
Tell the non-rambo's to stick together and praise them when they get things right, when you see four skulk kills rack up in quick succession say <b>"nice work team".</b>
Give reason behind your orders and let them know whats up ahead. <b>"ok team, your closing on a hive area so I want you to stop there and we are going to seige them."</b>,<b>"Stop there, dont go any further, Joe STOP. STOP. GO BACK. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Right the rest of you, 2 guard and one build that TF."</b>
Be VERY flexible with your tactics, let the game lead you. Keep your eyes on all area's of the map and exploit every gap. Probably the best tactic to use (imho)is to tech up, lock down 1 hive if you can. If you lock down 2 then your team is better than you thought but mainly get as many res nodes as you can and dont spend much res holding the hives or nodes. Instead spend it on upgrades and a few base defenses before the aliens get fades. For unskiled marines I would not get MT first as they wont use it very well. They will not know the map and wont be able to get proper perspective of where things are. They wont realise that the MT circle is 1second behind the alien and they will be constantly suprised - or they will watch a circle and wait until they get chomped from behind. I would also recommend weapons upgrade over armour. That way they do more damage with the few bullets that hit. It is likely they will die while reloading whether they have armour upgrade or not <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hopefully when the aliens get fades (or just before if you are lucky) you can give jp/hmg or ha/hmg to a bunch of marines and come out of the chair yourself to help them finish the job. Tell them to shoot only at the hive, not structures or aliens (unless attacked). Yes, I did say come out the chair. Lead from the front as it where and show them how its done. If it all goes pear shaped at that point then it wnt help you being in the chair.
Finally, do not attempt to take credit for anything. Always congratulate the marines. You just point and click, their doing all the hard work. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
TBH I am a third rate tactiction but the problem you face in these situations are not game tactics. It 's all about motivating your team, NOT getting them to follow orders but getting them to WANT to follow orders.
Heh, This sounds like a game I played in my first week.
It took me a moment to realize. "OMG, He's talking to ME." Pulled back at the last second to try to get a TF up only to get munched on. Then when I respawned, the comm goes "Okay Bill the Cat (my NS name) I want you to grab some guys and lead them to that hive you were at." Woah awesome. We got munched on en-route, but it was my first real encounter with team-work in NS.
Come and play with us and u will probably not even have this problem with ur soldiers not being able to hit anything.
Maybe u just didnt upgrade them?
Marines with lvl 0 guns CANNOT match up to lvl 3 carapiced skulks.
As comm i usually get an arms labs up ASAP.
upgrade guns all the way before i even upgrade armor.
but the reason why comms dont giv orders cos its usually a "guard hive(s)" order..
and in pub games players can't camp a place for too long..
espcially when they r guarding 2 hives..
cos the order is basically gurad both hives until we get some upgrades or something going to counter bloody carapace..
and in pub games players can't camp a place for too long..
Commanders dont give WPs more often than not. and this is a big problem they shout down the microphone "go here". which i do. but some ppl need wps they dont know the map and marines dont come with little white circles telling them where the hives are.
90% of games i play in id say i dont get wps. which i beleive is wrong. and most of the time the comm is moaning about his marines. 90% of the comms job is/should be communication.
u are the all seeing all knowing commander. let ur team know whats going on. as i assume ur talking public games here some problems u will face are.
1.) new players (not knowing maps/ not knowing what to do).
2.) new joiners not knowing whats the state of play.
3.) base campers that only like humping the armory
4.) and of course ur rambos
i suggest some of the following if u want player to be in the versinity of hives/mini bases etc..
why build an armory in ur base if most players spend time humping it. build it in hives uve locked down this will make sure u have less players in base and more in the places u need to be. how many times have ur troops come back to base to get ammo and thats when ur mini base has fallen?
get ur rambos on gorge killing as soon as possible.
when i join a public game thats already in progress if there is an active phase gate the first thing i will do is visit every PG location to see what we have locked down etc.
GIVE WAY POINTS! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I <i>totally</i> agree with this. Easily 95% of the time the problem with claiming a hive is that nobody, esp. n00bs, knows where things are on the map. Of course, you learn and take time and eventually figure out how to get there through the vents, but it would take a comm 2 seconds to drop a waypoint and say 'guard this' or 'attack this.' Also, note that HL Voice isn't the greatest technology and not everybody's going to be able to hear or understand you. Use the tools you have.
Or, give them a welder and send them out with the HA squad.
"1 person stay at base, rest of you go here"
"2 people phase to blah"
"some of you go here, some of you go there"
You have not specified *who* that 1 person that stays behind should be, you haven't explained which people should go here and which people should go there. The net results will be:
No one stays at base OR 5 people stay at base
Everyone phases to blah
1 person goes here, 4 people go there, 3 people are lost and can't decide where they are going.
Use names, group people up if you need to. Address people directly and they'll know what you actually want *them* to do. Marines don't act as a collective, each marine only sees his own perspective and only controls his own actions. They don't have the overview of the map that you do. What you may want is marines evenly distributed between 2 locations, but what each marine wants is to know where *he* is going, he has no control over the other players and he can't organise them.
The other common mistake is...
If a marine is standing still in a location, and you want him to stand still in that location, TELL HIM. A marine with no order to guard his current location effectively has no orders, he is probably only standing there waiting for you to give him something to do. Without knowing that you want him to stay there, he is going to wander off because for all he knows there could be an important battle going on just around the corner.
To make matters worse, if I say "Joey stay at base the rest of you go attack powersilo, here's a waypoint" it doesnt seem to make matters any better, 4 follow orders but 3 get distracted on route. 2 go in the opposite direction because "comm's a n00b" and Joey will almost certainly run away after 20 seconds because he's "bored of guard duty"
Hopefully with the addition of squad grouping in 1.1 this won't be such a problem and waypoints should be easier to place.
Here's an idea for a nice mod, give commanders the option in game to select a marine and click "Court Marshall" or "Commendate" button, when this happens the player is notified(maybe a sound plays) if <i>x</i> number of different comms Court Marshall a marine he gets a black mark in the player list and eventually banned from the server for a length of time set by the admin. If <i>x</i> number of different commanders commendate a marine he gets a star icon next to his name and maybe a slightly different uniform (like a paler/darker shade) ?
Then if the comm brings down the list and see's a player has a black mark he'll give that player low priority missions. If he has to give out his last 50 res of equipment for a solo hive kill he'll prefer the marine with a star.