Prototype Lab
p00psm1th
Join Date: 2003-02-14 Member: 13558Members
Join Date: 2003-02-14 Member: 13558Members
<div class="IPBDescription">to toy or not to toy</div> More and more often, I find prototype labs appearing right after arms labs. I find this to be a very bad tactic because:
1) The resources required to build the proto lab, research upgrades, and hand out toys could be used more effectively in other ways. For example: getting another arms lab for faster upgrades, actually getting those armor and weapon upgrades, building more outposts, etc. These are all one-time upgrades. Marines can spawn for free and use weapons/armor upgrades and MT. If you can keep your outposts welded, they will hold off the aliens for quite some time.
2) It costs way too many resource points for the toys to actaully be put to use. Once the jetpacks and heavy armor suits start falling, every marine "needs" a HMG or grenade launcher too. If you get heavy armor, you will need welders for most of your team so they can stay alive (hopefully they know how to use welders). You will also need to supply your players with medpacks to avoid buying new equipment. However, when your marines feel invulnerable with their new toys and go wandering to all parts of the map, they die and reappear in base asking for more stuff.
3) Once the proto lab shows up, you are almost guaranteed to have marines standign around begging for toys. If you do give out toys, they will end up going to the lame base-campers, not your more experienced marines out guarding your phase gates and outposts.
The only time I could actually see having a proto lab useful early in the game would be to research the upgrades so thet you do not have to later. However, usually it is wiser to put those resources to use like in number 1.
There was one particular game in which I realized that building a prototype lab as soon as possible is stupid. On ns_bast, instead of trying to secure hives or anything for that matter, our commander dropped two RTs in atmospheric. As soon as we had the resources, an arms lab and prototype lab had shown up. Later, HA suits were dropping. I picked one up and noticed I only had 200 armor. Then he dropped some HMGs. I had HA and HMG, but no welder and no armor upgrades. We asked for welders but our commander didn't seem to understand the concept of heavy armor. By that time the <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> were rolling in. I'm telling this to show how some people don't think about it when they build the prototype and to try to encourage people to do so.
1) The resources required to build the proto lab, research upgrades, and hand out toys could be used more effectively in other ways. For example: getting another arms lab for faster upgrades, actually getting those armor and weapon upgrades, building more outposts, etc. These are all one-time upgrades. Marines can spawn for free and use weapons/armor upgrades and MT. If you can keep your outposts welded, they will hold off the aliens for quite some time.
2) It costs way too many resource points for the toys to actaully be put to use. Once the jetpacks and heavy armor suits start falling, every marine "needs" a HMG or grenade launcher too. If you get heavy armor, you will need welders for most of your team so they can stay alive (hopefully they know how to use welders). You will also need to supply your players with medpacks to avoid buying new equipment. However, when your marines feel invulnerable with their new toys and go wandering to all parts of the map, they die and reappear in base asking for more stuff.
3) Once the proto lab shows up, you are almost guaranteed to have marines standign around begging for toys. If you do give out toys, they will end up going to the lame base-campers, not your more experienced marines out guarding your phase gates and outposts.
The only time I could actually see having a proto lab useful early in the game would be to research the upgrades so thet you do not have to later. However, usually it is wiser to put those resources to use like in number 1.
There was one particular game in which I realized that building a prototype lab as soon as possible is stupid. On ns_bast, instead of trying to secure hives or anything for that matter, our commander dropped two RTs in atmospheric. As soon as we had the resources, an arms lab and prototype lab had shown up. Later, HA suits were dropping. I picked one up and noticed I only had 200 armor. Then he dropped some HMGs. I had HA and HMG, but no welder and no armor upgrades. We asked for welders but our commander didn't seem to understand the concept of heavy armor. By that time the <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> were rolling in. I'm telling this to show how some people don't think about it when they build the prototype and to try to encourage people to do so.
Comments
It's a strange situation, the begging and pleading for Ha/Hmg has spilled over into commander strategy to the point that somehow it's hard wired in most comms brains, "If I can get those up, It's all over". Nice of you to point out what I started playing NS beliving, and take with me into any rts.
The upgrades that you spawn with are worth 10 times more than the ones you are given.
yet they haven't got an arms lab / adv armoury yet.. sometimes no MT too..
so they just chuck arms lab/ proto and upgrade armoury all at the same time once some1 shouts "use ur res omg comm"
If you want to prevent base camping, build your prototype lab in one of your expansions. THen if losers want to camp for equipment the have to stand around in a alien infested area.
At least, we *hope* you're a fan of HSR with that nickname. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The downside of this is that if that outpost gets destroyed, that proto lab cost as much as the PG and the TF by itself and it has little/no effect on the defence (unless your playing with stupid twats, in which case going comm is pointless anyway). The way I work it is 'dont follow orders, dont get toys' so rambos play with LA LMG the WHOLE game, no point splashing out 50+res for a HA HMG when he goes off on his own. However the guys who do their work get all the toys they want, and sooner or later the rambo's learn to join the pack and then they get their toys.
or, once you've got the team off to a good start, they hijack the comm chair, waste all the resources on toys for themselves, and promptly go an die. then, they blame you because they "could have taken out the whole alien team if you just dropped a jetpack n00b comm"
Your other two options are secure two hives or go and kill hives before fades appear. Jetpacks are incredible tools for taking out hives quickly, and HA only really has a place when you have two hives locked down. If you're shooting for tech, but not actually using it for anything, you're doing something wrong. Therefore, don't bother to drop anything unless you expect to use it in the near future.
Also, keep in mind upgrade times. Static upgrades don't really matter time wise, cuz you can keep at it all the time and it will never really be a waste. Jetpacks take hardly any time to research, and it hardly takes long to build a protolab, so don't bother until you're ready actually drop them. HA takes forever to research, but by the time you'll be able to use them time won't really matter much anymore. You might as well get MT as soon as you have the res, unless you don't plan on needing an observatory. The armory is a good thing to upgrade a few minutes in advance, so you can have firepower when you need it. You can get ammo during upgrade now, and the upgrade takes a while, so if you expect to need GL or HMG in the next 5 minutes I suggest getting the upgrade over with.
HA is just as uselful in killing hives and fades. however, it is always bad to go for proto early game unless you plan to jp rush, and as a rule of thumb i only expect the proto to show up after we attain 1/1 upgrades and are in the process of getting another upgrade.
The proto is the best money you can spend with an experienced team; just make sure you give the armor and jp's to people who actually follow orders.
There's nothing like a HA welding mass that welds everything from base to hive and back again.
2. If your marines start whining for equipment the moment they see other people with it, you're playing on the wrong server. Find better servers, they are out there.
Of course, good ha pushes are even harder to pull off than jetpak hive assassinations, because people have now seen and know about the jetpak rush, and any good player who happens to be on the server can probably pull it off, but ha push requires group coordination, letting the bad seeds show through :/
-calldown
Maybe if in 1.1 they added some more things to research in the Proto, that would open up its validity in more commander stratigies. As it stands it's like
All Jps - It's either the start of the match, or the end of the match
All Has - Well....it's not the start of the match.
I think you are smoking dope. Phasegates and motion tracking are essential to the marines, toys almost never are. Most marines underestimate the power of upgraded LMGs and armour. Yesterday, I played a game as marines in which our cdr got MT early, and then devoted the res to wpn and armour upgrades. As a result, fades showed up. How do I know? Well, I killed 5 of them, and my teammates got plenty more. The aliens devoted all their res to buying fades, which we shredded with fully upgraded LMGs.
Jetpacks are for marines that are afraid of skulks. HMGs are too inaccurate and too slow to reload. HA makes you too slow. Lvl 3 LMG/lvl 3 armour is the way to go. Forget the protolab.
See? He left out the shot gun or grenade launcher! It's a conspiracy of silence, I say. Nice points, though the JP has much more utilitariian uses than just being anti skulk protection, course...it's also just /fun/.
Yea, IP/Armory/minepack/Arms lab/Armor upgrade is what I use. I find that giving my marines that extra armor allows me to drop them health packs while they are still alive, rather than just after they died.
I never build turrets or phasegates when I comm. In fact, I seldom build the observatory or research MT - it's 60 res that I rather use to do the JP assault a minute earlier.
I think you are smoking dope. Phasegates and motion tracking are essential to the marines, toys almost never are
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I guess you have never played a clan match then.
itty bitty correction here.
HMG makes you slow.
HA does not.
-calldown <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
HA Death Squad is the equivalent of Stacraft's Finger of God... you know how hard it was to defeat that evil strategy. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, to comment on the topic. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Protolab too early means death. I always want level 2 weapons and level 1 armor as a bare minimum requirement before I take out the protolab. If I need need jetpacks <i>fast</i> I will take out the protolab earlier than usual at about 1/1 upgrades. Too many comms see the armslab as just a roadblock.
Jump first, then wait until you start falling, then hit jump again. You accelerate extremely slowly upwards, yet you get the forward movement boost. If you want to move foward without as much vertical movement, always hit jump when your falling.