Processing on Hera is almost impossible to hold against a determined alien team. At least in my experience. I have no problems with the mappers creating key points on a map that can spell disaster for a disorganized team. It just speeds up the inevitable IMO. *shrug*
As for Caged... it's definitely one of my favorite maps. Some great back and forth battling for hives on that map is the norm. I really enjoy that type of dynamic game.
If its against proper organised and decent alien players then you have to do it before carapace. A relocation at the start to processing sees all marines vs uncara'd skulks which is pretty easy for marines to repel. Once the base is up and mined then your pretty much home free, with subsequent turret farming. Also even midgame marines can get lucky and get a pg up very quickly if they arent spotted soon enough and before aliens know whats happening a small outpost is up. If marines can hold it for a while then it can soon be turned a fort.
I have only 1 tip for marines on caged, and listen VERY carefully: Build at stability, NOT generator Build at pumping, NOT sewer Why? Because the hive locations have no res nozzles and you will choke yourself out. You can seige the hives from stab and sewer, that is all that is needed. Please remember this, and stop bitching at me about it when I comm. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--H'BNayr+Feb 24 2003, 12:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (H'BNayr @ Feb 24 2003, 12:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Caged has too many entities.
Those of you with slow computer know what I mean. You might get 30 FPS on every other NS map, but Caged only gives you 4. All the time.
I imagine I would enjoy it better were I to upgrade.
And Hera is nice, but it lags far too much to play seriously.
-Ryan! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen! Laggs bad when I sees gene Hive but runs fine if I DO NOT look at gene, after I've done that I lagg like a monkey :/ Fun map otherwise.
<!--QuoteBegin--killswitch1968+Feb 24 2003, 04:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ Feb 24 2003, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have only 1 tip for marines on caged, and listen VERY carefully: Build at stability, NOT generator Build at pumping, NOT sewer Why? Because the hive locations have no res nozzles and you will choke yourself out. You can seige the hives from stab and sewer, that is all that is needed. Please remember this, and stop bitching at me about it when I comm. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is a tactic that I've seen executed beautifully many times. I think it's an advantage that the marines have but don't often utilize.
Overall, Caged is a good map. There are some minor kinks, but I think it's one of the better maps in terms of match-up. Looking forward to Caged 2.0. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
2) Boost into vent at shipping needs like 3 people ( I was a gorge in that vent once, scared the **** out of me! )
3) Go through the weldable grate
4) Go through the pumping station vent, 1 marine can do it
5) Get jetpacks and go through the red vent in-between pumping station and that weldable grate
Thats 4 enterances without jetpacks, quit your bitching =) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1: Blocked everytime by the gorge now. Requires seige to get through it now. Thats like, 65 res to get through one door, and usually, its killed before it gets up.
2: One guy=death
3: Usually WoLed really bad, but yes, this is the best way in.
Ns_Caged would be great but there is a luck factor, if you start at gen you have a disadvantage. Very similar to Ns_nothing where if you don't start at Cargo you are at a disadvantage. Unless all three hives are equal I can't enjoy the game, that's why Tanith is great, because every hive is equal in one way or another.
The reason I like Tanith myself, is because its so damn hard to seige the hives. I hate seiging hives, if you want my hive, come and GET IT! The only hive thats easy to seige is Fusion from Cargo, and even that can be hard.
2) Boost into vent at shipping needs like 3 people ( I was a gorge in that vent once, scared the **** out of me! )
3) Go through the weldable grate
4) Go through the pumping station vent, 1 marine can do it
5) Get jetpacks and go through the red vent in-between pumping station and that weldable grate
Thats 4 enterances without jetpacks, quit your bitching =) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1: Blocked everytime by the gorge now. Requires seige to get through it now. Thats like, 65 res to get through one door, and usually, its killed before it gets up.
2: One guy=death
3: Usually WoLed really bad, but yes, this is the best way in.
4: No, 1 marine can't. Plus thats a death trap.
5: If you got a JP, better to take #4 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) Most Gorges block it poorly and any skilled marine can jump and look up at a certain angle and 'slide' over the door. Also, sometimes the chambers can be attacked 'through' the door 2) Not if the guys good, plus he can just go open the Shipping Tunnel door 3) Not usually WoLed until later in the game 4) Yes, 1 marine can. It's only a death trap against Lerks/Fades, you can rape any skulks that come at you and usualyl easily get a phase up in Vent (if you got in undetected) 5) If you have JP the best routes are this one, or flying through the Shipping Vent
Is it really necessary to slam people's work like a couple of you have? Giving constructive criticism of people's work is fine, and feedback IS vital to mappers, but just saying a map "sucks" doesn't contribute a damn thing. You don't have to like something, but you can at least be civil about it.
caged is a good map, i like it..... but bast pwnz all the way.... gj on it relic <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> now ontopic: well caged..... i like it, has a nice mood, the ms is well designed, has some cons and pros but what i dont like in caged is that counting all the nodes of the map, you just have..... 7 or 8.... cant remember very well.... and you always starve in caged unless some other maps like hera or bast =) the rest is cool
I LIKE hives without res nozzles. If marines want to take 2 hives it REALLY gives them a run for their money. I mean being able to get a hive and a nozzle with 1 TF ain't right.
I disliked caged at first because two hives dont have a res nearby. Today I love it, because it lends to a slightly different kind of game: the destroying Ressource towers rampage. It's good fun IMO. Also Jp hmg marines don't have so free a reign over it as on other maps due to conveniently placed skulk girders in the ceilings of two hives. It both blocks the shooting lanes of camping JP'ers and allows you to approach an unwary marine without having to jump like a bunny.
The fatal flaw about caged is the fact that ventilation hive is next to impossible to get to. Any decent alien team will have shipping tunnel blocked with a chamber, and the only other way needs to be welded. Tack on the fact that ventilation is the most time consuming hive to get to on foot, and it becomes a nightmare for the marines. I sincerely hope there is a second hallway into Ventilation in 1.1 if the blockable door and the weldable hall is kept in there. Currently it's all too easy for the aliens to control that hive.
<!--QuoteBegin--Anavrin+Mar 13 2003, 11:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anavrin @ Mar 13 2003, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fatal flaw about caged is the fact that ventilation hive is next to impossible to get to. Any decent alien team will have shipping tunnel blocked with a chamber, and the only other way needs to be welded. Tack on the fact that ventilation is the most time consuming hive to get to on foot, and it becomes a nightmare for the marines. I sincerely hope there is a second hallway into Ventilation in 1.1 if the blockable door and the weldable hall is kept in there. Currently it's all too easy for the aliens to control that hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup. I commanded a game where the aliens had sewer, so welding the vent was practically a suicide run. We managed to get through the door before they blocked it, but money was tight, and the marines sat in the open air in vent rather then in the corners and died. 2nd run it was blocked again and had to seige. Then we finally got to vent and got killed again. Game over man. I heard marine start --> vent is the longest out of any map or hive.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sprengi+Feb 24 2003, 09:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sprengi @ Feb 24 2003, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> caged?...first i hated that map...now i love it..its one of my fav maps (right after bast <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> same for me
I think I've come around on caged as well, after trying a few things I've found a really good strat that works well enough, provided your team doesnt suck and they know how to move about on the inside of the map.
Basically make a strong push to freight elevator access(you know, that brownish indent on the wall and the hidden resource node?) Send about a fourth of your team there, theres 2 nodes protectable by 1 turret factory, or a couple packs of mines and a marine or 2, depending on your style. Add in a phase gate and you now have easy access to all 3, yes ALL 3 hives. Its a short walk to Vent's weld point, and obviously a little longer to get to pumping station. It's a little longer to get to generator, but the marine start is a pretty simple shot to it.
Thats my caged strat in a nutshell, MT helps a lot, but you have to push hard and try to keep alien res nodes down, they can starve to you know
<!--QuoteBegin---= Vicious =- Eclipse+Apr 3 2003, 03:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-= Vicious =- Eclipse @ Apr 3 2003, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think I've come around on caged as well, after trying a few things I've found a really good strat that works well enough, provided your team doesnt suck and they know how to move about on the inside of the map.
Basically make a strong push to freight elevator access(you know, that brownish indent on the wall and the hidden resource node?) Send about a fourth of your team there, theres 2 nodes protectable by 1 turret factory, or a couple packs of mines and a marine or 2, depending on your style. Add in a phase gate and you now have easy access to all 3, yes ALL 3 hives. Its a short walk to Vent's weld point, and obviously a little longer to get to pumping station. It's a little longer to get to generator, but the marine start is a pretty simple shot to it.
Thats my caged strat in a nutshell, MT helps a lot, but you have to push hard and try to keep alien res nodes down, they can starve to you know
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That strategy you just posted works amazingly well. I've seen it used and it's brutal. It also does a good job of breaking up routes between the hives. Forcing aliens to stick to vents.
When I saw it used the whole marine team just relocated there. It was hard for us skulks to mount an attack on it or any hive they controled becasue of it's central location.
Ok I heard someone say this, and I haven't tested and I don't know if it's true but the person said
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any idiot with welder can unblock the the shipping tunnel door<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They later said that you can weld whatever is blocking the door through the door. I'm gonna try this out. And see if it really works. Probably not, but it's worth a try.
<!--QuoteBegin--DeAtH_tO_gOrDoN+Apr 3 2003, 05:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeAtH_tO_gOrDoN @ Apr 3 2003, 05:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok I heard someone say this, and I haven't tested and I don't know if it's true but the person said
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any idiot with welder can unblock the the shipping tunnel door<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They later said that you can weld whatever is blocking the door through the door. I'm gonna try this out. And see if it really works. Probably not, but it's worth a try. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If the welder won't work, use a grenade launcher, because the explosion goes through walls.
I like all the maps. (Yeah I'm one of <i>those</i> people) There are uniquely appreciable gameplay values on all the NS maps. I tend to find you can appreciate their different styles even more when you play 3-4 maps in a row with a bunch of good pubbers (Yes they exist).
Cage in particular, love it. I think this map and ns_nothing really helped me develop as an alien player.
I too like caged for what it is, only thing I dislike a little is ventilation, but generally its not too much of a problem. I actually think that the res nodes should be put further away from the hive, because relocating to pumping pretty much = relocating to sewer, and same for stability and engine. This would help discourage 2 hive lockdowns with out ruling them out all together. Otherwise caged is one of my favorite maps, along with nothing and bast and nancy. Hell, I love em all, they were all very well done.
Comments
As for Caged... it's definitely one of my favorite maps. Some great back and forth battling for hives on that map is the norm. I really enjoy that type of dynamic game.
If its against proper organised and decent alien players then you have to do it before carapace. A relocation at the start to processing sees all marines vs uncara'd skulks which is pretty easy for marines to repel. Once the base is up and mined then your pretty much home free, with subsequent turret farming.
Also even midgame marines can get lucky and get a pg up very quickly if they arent spotted soon enough and before aliens know whats happening a small outpost is up. If marines can hold it for a while then it can soon be turned a fort.
Build at stability, NOT generator
Build at pumping, NOT sewer
Why? Because the hive locations have no res nozzles and you will choke yourself out. You can seige the hives from stab and sewer, that is all that is needed. Please remember this, and stop bitching at me about it when I comm. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Those of you with slow computer know what I mean. You might get 30 FPS on every other NS map, but Caged only gives you 4. All the time.
I imagine I would enjoy it better were I to upgrade.
And Hera is nice, but it lags far too much to play seriously.
-Ryan! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen! Laggs bad when I sees gene Hive but runs fine if I DO NOT look at gene, after I've done that I lagg like a monkey :/ Fun map otherwise.
Build at stability, NOT generator
Build at pumping, NOT sewer
Why? Because the hive locations have no res nozzles and you will choke yourself out. You can seige the hives from stab and sewer, that is all that is needed. Please remember this, and stop bitching at me about it when I comm. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a tactic that I've seen executed beautifully many times. I think it's an advantage that the marines have but don't often utilize.
Overall, Caged is a good map. There are some minor kinks, but I think it's one of the better maps in terms of match-up. Looking forward to Caged 2.0. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
1) Go through shipping
2) Boost into vent at shipping needs like 3 people ( I was a gorge in that vent once, scared the **** out of me! )
3) Go through the weldable grate
4) Go through the pumping station vent, 1 marine can do it
5) Get jetpacks and go through the red vent in-between pumping station and that weldable grate
Thats 4 enterances without jetpacks, quit your bitching =)
1) Go through shipping
2) Boost into vent at shipping needs like 3 people ( I was a gorge in that vent once, scared the **** out of me! )
3) Go through the weldable grate
4) Go through the pumping station vent, 1 marine can do it
5) Get jetpacks and go through the red vent in-between pumping station and that weldable grate
Thats 4 enterances without jetpacks, quit your bitching =) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1: Blocked everytime by the gorge now. Requires seige to get through it now. Thats like, 65 res to get through one door, and usually, its killed before it gets up.
2: One guy=death
3: Usually WoLed really bad, but yes, this is the best way in.
4: No, 1 marine can't. Plus thats a death trap.
5: If you got a JP, better to take #4
1) Go through shipping
2) Boost into vent at shipping needs like 3 people ( I was a gorge in that vent once, scared the **** out of me! )
3) Go through the weldable grate
4) Go through the pumping station vent, 1 marine can do it
5) Get jetpacks and go through the red vent in-between pumping station and that weldable grate
Thats 4 enterances without jetpacks, quit your bitching =) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1: Blocked everytime by the gorge now. Requires seige to get through it now. Thats like, 65 res to get through one door, and usually, its killed before it gets up.
2: One guy=death
3: Usually WoLed really bad, but yes, this is the best way in.
4: No, 1 marine can't. Plus thats a death trap.
5: If you got a JP, better to take #4 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Most Gorges block it poorly and any skilled marine can jump and look up at a certain angle and 'slide' over the door. Also, sometimes the chambers can be attacked 'through' the door
2) Not if the guys good, plus he can just go open the Shipping Tunnel door
3) Not usually WoLed until later in the game
4) Yes, 1 marine can. It's only a death trap against Lerks/Fades, you can rape any skulks that come at you and usualyl easily get a phase up in Vent (if you got in undetected)
5) If you have JP the best routes are this one, or flying through the Shipping Vent
now ontopic: well caged..... i like it, has a nice mood, the ms is well designed, has some cons and pros but what i dont like in caged is that counting all the nodes of the map, you just have..... 7 or 8.... cant remember very well.... and you always starve in caged unless some other maps like hera or bast =) the rest is cool
Yup. I commanded a game where the aliens had sewer, so welding the vent was practically a suicide run. We managed to get through the door before they blocked it, but money was tight, and the marines sat in the open air in vent rather then in the corners and died.
2nd run it was blocked again and had to seige. Then we finally got to vent and got killed again. Game over man. I heard marine start --> vent is the longest out of any map or hive.
there is a third way into ventalation that most don't know about...
same for me
Basically make a strong push to freight elevator access(you know, that brownish indent on the wall and the hidden resource node?) Send about a fourth of your team there, theres 2 nodes protectable by 1 turret factory, or a couple packs of mines and a marine or 2, depending on your style. Add in a phase gate and you now have easy access to all 3, yes ALL 3 hives. Its a short walk to Vent's weld point, and obviously a little longer to get to pumping station. It's a little longer to get to generator, but the marine start is a pretty simple shot to it.
Thats my caged strat in a nutshell, MT helps a lot, but you have to push hard and try to keep alien res nodes down, they can starve to you know
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Basically make a strong push to freight elevator access(you know, that brownish indent on the wall and the hidden resource node?) Send about a fourth of your team there, theres 2 nodes protectable by 1 turret factory, or a couple packs of mines and a marine or 2, depending on your style. Add in a phase gate and you now have easy access to all 3, yes ALL 3 hives. Its a short walk to Vent's weld point, and obviously a little longer to get to pumping station. It's a little longer to get to generator, but the marine start is a pretty simple shot to it.
Thats my caged strat in a nutshell, MT helps a lot, but you have to push hard and try to keep alien res nodes down, they can starve to you know
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That strategy you just posted works amazingly well. I've seen it used and it's brutal. It also does a good job of breaking up routes between the hives. Forcing aliens to stick to vents.
When I saw it used the whole marine team just relocated there. It was hard for us skulks to mount an attack on it or any hive they controled becasue of it's central location.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any idiot with welder can unblock the the shipping tunnel door<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They later said that you can weld whatever is blocking the door through the door. I'm gonna try this out. And see if it really works. Probably not, but it's worth a try.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any idiot with welder can unblock the the shipping tunnel door<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They later said that you can weld whatever is blocking the door through the door. I'm gonna try this out. And see if it really works. Probably not, but it's worth a try. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the welder won't work, use a grenade launcher, because the explosion goes through walls.
Cage in particular, love it. I think this map and ns_nothing really helped me develop as an alien player.