Different Commanding Strategies!
GaMeRLiFe
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13235Members
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13235Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Post your not-so-common strategies here!</div> OK guys, i'm sick of it. no really, i am. i'm tired of you "well-respected" comm's using only one strategy and not giving other strategies a chance. so when u guys play in rounds where u decide not to get in that comm chair, u BOSS AROUND the comm (see where this doesn't make sense?) and tell him what to do. common quotes:
"comm, drop me a phase gate at this hive NOW. WE DONT WANT THEM GETTING FADES"
"dont get HA! JP are the best!!! omg n00b comm u researched HA"
"dont make an arms lab! get phase gates first!"
and etc., etc. it's nice if you put in your opinion, but thinking it's the only way to win? marines were designed to have many, many strategies, unlike the aliens. just because you know of a strategy that works for you doesn't mean you should disobey orders and not give new strategies a chance. so if u see a comm that seems like he knows what he's doing, like not asking "how do i upgrade the armory?", give the guy a chance, follow orders, and if the plan fails oh well, try to win next round.
these are the most common strategies i see being executed:
1. hold the hives - get 2 hives, phase it up, turret it up, wait for your slow res to get everyone tech'ed (which by this time most of the aliens left) and finally, finish the last hive
2. relocation - "who needs marine base, hives are the most important" same as hold the hives minus the base
3. HMG rush - defend until the armory is upgraded, hand everyone hmg's and attack. of course when this one attack fails, you're basically bending over for them
4. tech'ing to HMG and JP ASAP - a new strat, get a hive, get as much res towers to tech up to HMG+JP ASAP (before they get their second hive if possible), hand everyone their toys and cause havoc.
i think the fourth one is a good strategy, but the first and second seems like flaws. this is just my opinion, but looking at the manual, story, and map-making ideals of NS, it seems that marines weren't really meant to HOLD hives and value them more than anything else. and relocating base? come on, its very sloppy, and it does have its advantages but you KNOW it doesn't look right.
now whenever i comm, i try to avoid the common "get the hives before they do" and value resources nodes more. as in almost any rts game, resources are all that matter, and many marines fail to see this. even if the marines have 2 hives, if the aliens own every other resource node in the map, as long as they have decent skills and a decent gorge, they CAN take the hives back. it goes the same way for marines. sure, let the aliens get 2 hives, but we'll get the majority of the nodes. let's see how they deal with HA, GLs, and HMGs.
so that's my theory. as a result i came up with two strategies that work, i'm sure they're not completely unique, i'm sure other people know of them too, but they are different strats, nevertheless. these strats have proven to be as good as the common ones, if not better, AS LONG AS i have the cooperation of the marines, not having people that act like how i explained in the first paragraph. not saying that rambo'ing/complaining/n00bish marines aren't found with the common strats, but when u have a different strat, u tend to get more of these people.
-Strategy 1-
1. IP
2. Armory
3. Observatory (hide it in the most craziest overlooked spot u can think of)
4. Resource Node (away from direction the aliens are rushing from)
5. Resource Node (at open hive, preferably one farthest from alien starting hive)if the aliens don't seem to be rambo'ing and attacking nodes, otherwise
6. Phase Gates (at hive resource node)if it is a map where the resource node is not at the hive, secure the one closest the the hive.
7. Secure resource node at/near hive. either with turrets or mines. the more players in the game, more turrets/mines you would want
8. Get choke point resource nodes and secure them. what i mean by choke point nodes are ones that can be secured to prevent the aliens from getting through to another node (more on this later). Phase gates are a plus.
9. Get resource nodes that are covered by the choke points.
10. Make sure you have more than half of the resource nodes in the map.
11. Tech to HMG, GL, having a good ratio or each, and HA (the enemy will have 2 hives, and HA works better on 2-hive situations)
Be sure to upgrade weapons, armor, motion tracking, and get extra IPs, in the whole process, whenever u have the money, but not to spend too much money on them to delay getting resource nodes.
What you want to do with the choke points are to secure all your res points without having to put turrets/mines in all of them. foe example, on ns_nothing, you would secure Marine Spawn, Cargo Bay (hopefully they wouldn't have it), Generator Room, and the one next to generator (auxillary something?). that's 4 choke points, 7 nodes.
And there you have it. you win the resource game, fully tech'ed marines beat fades (yes, they can), the aliens don't F4 out because they have 2 hives, everyone has a great, long game whether they win or lose.
-Strategy 2-
This strategy should be executed if their starting hive happens to be the one that's closest to marine spawn, and if there are at least 6 marines on the team
1. IP
2. Armory
3. Arms Lab
4. Upgrade Weapon or Armor, your choice
5. Assign 1 marine as "Builder" The rest of the marines rush their starting hive. Tell them to keep on rushing the hive after they repawn too.
6. 2nd IP, more if there are more marines
7. Have the "Builder" cap as many res nodes as he can
8. Keep the upgrades constantly going. Get motion tracking when u can, upgrade the armory when u can
9. Recycle any nodes that get under attack and cannot be saved, have the builder rebuild them ASAP.
10. hand out HMGs to the rushers when u can, preferably 3 or more at a time.
11. eventually the hive will go down. if it doesn't try JPs. if they are getting a second hive, kill that one next.
In this strategy, there are no turrets, although u may want mines in marine spawn/vital res nodes. the idea is that the aliens are kept busy defending their hive, just as the marines are usually kept busy defending against alien rushes. with 2 or more IPs, your spawning rate is faster than theirs, so u can keep the pressure on them, while your side barely gets any attacks at all. have the marines shoot the hive, shoot any OCs in the way, anything to keep them busy. remember that if the aliens decide to ignore the attacks and go for your base or res nodes, there is a good chance your marines will take out the hive early.
i would encourage other comm's to start trying new strats, and stay open to other wierd strats as well. i would suggest saying something like "i'm going to try a different strategy and i'm going to need your cooperation to have it work" when u get in the comm chair. i only have 2 strats up my sleeve for now, so i'd really like to know of any other unique strategies out there! i'm not looking for "funny" strategies, i want strats that work. so does anyone else have one?
"comm, drop me a phase gate at this hive NOW. WE DONT WANT THEM GETTING FADES"
"dont get HA! JP are the best!!! omg n00b comm u researched HA"
"dont make an arms lab! get phase gates first!"
and etc., etc. it's nice if you put in your opinion, but thinking it's the only way to win? marines were designed to have many, many strategies, unlike the aliens. just because you know of a strategy that works for you doesn't mean you should disobey orders and not give new strategies a chance. so if u see a comm that seems like he knows what he's doing, like not asking "how do i upgrade the armory?", give the guy a chance, follow orders, and if the plan fails oh well, try to win next round.
these are the most common strategies i see being executed:
1. hold the hives - get 2 hives, phase it up, turret it up, wait for your slow res to get everyone tech'ed (which by this time most of the aliens left) and finally, finish the last hive
2. relocation - "who needs marine base, hives are the most important" same as hold the hives minus the base
3. HMG rush - defend until the armory is upgraded, hand everyone hmg's and attack. of course when this one attack fails, you're basically bending over for them
4. tech'ing to HMG and JP ASAP - a new strat, get a hive, get as much res towers to tech up to HMG+JP ASAP (before they get their second hive if possible), hand everyone their toys and cause havoc.
i think the fourth one is a good strategy, but the first and second seems like flaws. this is just my opinion, but looking at the manual, story, and map-making ideals of NS, it seems that marines weren't really meant to HOLD hives and value them more than anything else. and relocating base? come on, its very sloppy, and it does have its advantages but you KNOW it doesn't look right.
now whenever i comm, i try to avoid the common "get the hives before they do" and value resources nodes more. as in almost any rts game, resources are all that matter, and many marines fail to see this. even if the marines have 2 hives, if the aliens own every other resource node in the map, as long as they have decent skills and a decent gorge, they CAN take the hives back. it goes the same way for marines. sure, let the aliens get 2 hives, but we'll get the majority of the nodes. let's see how they deal with HA, GLs, and HMGs.
so that's my theory. as a result i came up with two strategies that work, i'm sure they're not completely unique, i'm sure other people know of them too, but they are different strats, nevertheless. these strats have proven to be as good as the common ones, if not better, AS LONG AS i have the cooperation of the marines, not having people that act like how i explained in the first paragraph. not saying that rambo'ing/complaining/n00bish marines aren't found with the common strats, but when u have a different strat, u tend to get more of these people.
-Strategy 1-
1. IP
2. Armory
3. Observatory (hide it in the most craziest overlooked spot u can think of)
4. Resource Node (away from direction the aliens are rushing from)
5. Resource Node (at open hive, preferably one farthest from alien starting hive)if the aliens don't seem to be rambo'ing and attacking nodes, otherwise
6. Phase Gates (at hive resource node)if it is a map where the resource node is not at the hive, secure the one closest the the hive.
7. Secure resource node at/near hive. either with turrets or mines. the more players in the game, more turrets/mines you would want
8. Get choke point resource nodes and secure them. what i mean by choke point nodes are ones that can be secured to prevent the aliens from getting through to another node (more on this later). Phase gates are a plus.
9. Get resource nodes that are covered by the choke points.
10. Make sure you have more than half of the resource nodes in the map.
11. Tech to HMG, GL, having a good ratio or each, and HA (the enemy will have 2 hives, and HA works better on 2-hive situations)
Be sure to upgrade weapons, armor, motion tracking, and get extra IPs, in the whole process, whenever u have the money, but not to spend too much money on them to delay getting resource nodes.
What you want to do with the choke points are to secure all your res points without having to put turrets/mines in all of them. foe example, on ns_nothing, you would secure Marine Spawn, Cargo Bay (hopefully they wouldn't have it), Generator Room, and the one next to generator (auxillary something?). that's 4 choke points, 7 nodes.
And there you have it. you win the resource game, fully tech'ed marines beat fades (yes, they can), the aliens don't F4 out because they have 2 hives, everyone has a great, long game whether they win or lose.
-Strategy 2-
This strategy should be executed if their starting hive happens to be the one that's closest to marine spawn, and if there are at least 6 marines on the team
1. IP
2. Armory
3. Arms Lab
4. Upgrade Weapon or Armor, your choice
5. Assign 1 marine as "Builder" The rest of the marines rush their starting hive. Tell them to keep on rushing the hive after they repawn too.
6. 2nd IP, more if there are more marines
7. Have the "Builder" cap as many res nodes as he can
8. Keep the upgrades constantly going. Get motion tracking when u can, upgrade the armory when u can
9. Recycle any nodes that get under attack and cannot be saved, have the builder rebuild them ASAP.
10. hand out HMGs to the rushers when u can, preferably 3 or more at a time.
11. eventually the hive will go down. if it doesn't try JPs. if they are getting a second hive, kill that one next.
In this strategy, there are no turrets, although u may want mines in marine spawn/vital res nodes. the idea is that the aliens are kept busy defending their hive, just as the marines are usually kept busy defending against alien rushes. with 2 or more IPs, your spawning rate is faster than theirs, so u can keep the pressure on them, while your side barely gets any attacks at all. have the marines shoot the hive, shoot any OCs in the way, anything to keep them busy. remember that if the aliens decide to ignore the attacks and go for your base or res nodes, there is a good chance your marines will take out the hive early.
i would encourage other comm's to start trying new strats, and stay open to other wierd strats as well. i would suggest saying something like "i'm going to try a different strategy and i'm going to need your cooperation to have it work" when u get in the comm chair. i only have 2 strats up my sleeve for now, so i'd really like to know of any other unique strategies out there! i'm not looking for "funny" strategies, i want strats that work. so does anyone else have one?
Comments
this is just my opinion, but looking at the manual, story, and map-making ideals of NS, it seems that marines weren't really meant to HOLD hives and value them more than anything else.
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This sort of thinking is a hurdle you're going to have to get over if you ever want to play at a decent level. You are playing a computer game, you are controlling a random lump of polygons, your aim is to remove all the opposing team's lumps of polygons from the game. Wether you think a strategy fits the 'story' or not is irrelevant, you use the strategy that is most succesful at winning the game. Having said that, holding hives with TFs is somewhat outdated now, and isnt as common a strategy. Not because of anything said in the manual, or because of some thin fictional plotline written by no one in particular, but because it isnt as effective at killing your opponent's random lump of polygons.
All strats are not created equal, and chances are on any random public server there is probably someone in the field with more strategic experience than you, the commander. Don't be so quick to judge the warnings of marines who see where you are going wrong, and don't always assume you lost because people aren't following orders. More often than not, people don't follow orders because they have already lost.
Now your strats...
- Strategy 1 -
In my opinion, from a clan perspective, this is too slow a strategy to be effective against a good alien side. Your problem is not that you aren't holding hives, or that you're teching up, the problem is the amount of time and money spent securing things which in a 6v6 clanmatch would not give you sufficient tech in time to combat a 2 hive alien attack. You're leaving aliens to their own devices, meaning you are allowing them access to as many res nodes as they like, you aren't hassling their gorge, you aren't forcing them to build OCs or killing their DCs. In this situation, lv3 carapace will be up very quickly, which is going to place alot of pressure on your res points if not your base, and the 2nd hive is going to come very fast.
With the amount of resources you are spending on defense, phases, TFs, TFs at res nodes and multiple turrets, your tech speed is going to be very slow. Too slow, i would wager, to mount a decent defence once the 2nd hive is up, considering you will be struggling as soon as the aliens have carapace on the go. And then halfway down your strat.. this:
10. Make sure you have more than half of the resource nodes in the map.
This is naive. With no pressure on the alien team lv3 carapace will be up very early, which means from a couple of minutes into the game you are going to have enough problems just defending your current positions, nevermind expanding and spreading yourself across the entire map which is beyond realistic. If you also expect to defend each res node when you are not pressuring the alien team at all, no chance in hell against an alien team that knows what its doing. Fades will be up long before you have any means to defend against them.
There is *1* situation where any of this is feasable. A map which has a large number of res nodes in 1 place allowing you to defend them all while spending minimal cash on defence so you can still tech at a good pace. ns_nothing. The idea cannot be applied to any other scenario, and taking cargo bay on nothing has been standard practice since the dawn of time. Trying this strat on a map such as eclipse is very unlikely to work in an equally matched game.
- Strategy 2 -
Much more like it, this strategy makes proper use of the marine early game advantage. You do not necessarily have to hit the hive, as long as you are pressuring the aliens. Primary targets should be defence chambers and the gorge, if you can keep carapace low you've already won half the battle. This strategy spends minimal res on defence so you do not slow your teching speed, there is one gripe i have with your write up, which is the idea of handing out HMGs to LAs who are running at the hive. Expensive equipement in NS is best used all at once, in 1 big attack with a very high probability of success. Giving equipment out in a steady trickle is rarely effective. Hold onto those HMGs untill you have JP researched and enough res to equip everyone with JP/HMG at once. Then go win the game.
However.... there is nothing new about the above :)
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Basically
1xIP
Armoury
Res
Obs
Res
weapons fac
res
upgrads
res
proto
res
upgrades
jetapacks
armoury upgrade
call the marines back and kit with hmg/jetpacks
because we've been startving the khara for res they are only just getting ready for hive 2 and have few defenses but with this strat th marines only have 3 minutes or so to close the game by killing the hives. Newb's waste time and ammo shooting chambers, OT's and skulks not realising that 5hmg's with full upgrades can rape a hive in seconds. No matter how much I shout 'KILL THE freaking HIVE, IGNORE EVERYTHING BUT THE HIVE'
Does make for an interesting game though, and the lack of turrets is server friendly <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
the comm was just building 2 ips, armory and handed out some minepacks
then he builded only res nodes, until all res nodes (except 1 or 2) were in marine's hands. In this time, the marines were patroling around, killing skulks that tried to eat a res node. Comm saved for 500 res, builded arms lab, proto lab, upgraded and researched armor/weapon upgrades and ha, handed out ha/hmg. The whole tactic took about 5-8 minutes.
Then the aliens had to face 8 ha/hmg guys which killed the hive in no time.
Not a single turret / tf / phase / obs was builded the whole time.
i like to play a style of massive attack, while sending 2 of my marines around to secure res then hives.
start off: 1 ip, armoury.
say a 7v7 game, send 4 marines off to the alien hive, 2 with a pack of mines. 3 defend base (also with a pack of mines) once your 4 marines get to the hive give them an armoury, spam mines with the rest of your res to setup a near-unbreakable line of defence from where marines have a site of the hive (like the first res node oposite hive in cargo bay) skulks wont beat the mines, while 2 marines cover have 2 others go trigger happy on the hive, aliens shouldnt be able to make a comback and kill your marines, all the while your 3 base marines 2 of them go off to get res towers and secure hive with minimal resistance and the 3rd does base dutys.
we played the clan .spacedudes who used this tactic againsted us as aliens, well not the mines but they had us pinned in cargo with 4 marines and locked down 2 hives. we only won cos they went rambo'ing off with jetpack and HMG while we skulk rushed their base <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
oh BTW just an edit for the HMG rush comment,
HMG rush is a great strat, but only newbie comms will give EVERYONE a hmg and attack. always always must be 2-3 marines left behind to guard base and secure res nodes incase the rush fails. far to many comms cant multi-task and are left screwed because they have ignored the base under attack message for medpack spamming.
On ns_nothing.
Move to cargo bay.
Get resources, jetpack and phase gate.
While you are researching those things, attack powersilo, make them belive you are trying to capture it.
Now, get some guys to reach the red room, where you put up a few things(<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Now, if they have the viaduct hive, scan it and destroy it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->, skip this.
Now just attack powersilo, altough you might want to get the resource nozzle at viaduct. If they would ever try to build a hive at viaduct, destroy it with sieges.<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->
You should now be able to hand out equipment to everyone, and why not? <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
u seem to be missing my point. this is simply my opinion, and the reason i made this thread in the first place is to say that there ARE other ways then valuing hives more than anything else. u also seem to be telling me that holding hives with TFs is outdated as if i dont play NS anymore. from what i see, it's still a very popular strategy, but you play on different servers then me, so arguing over this is pointless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All strats are not created equal, and chances are on any random public server there is probably someone in the field with more strategic experience than you, the commander. Don't be so quick to judge the warnings of marines who see where you are going wrong, and don't always assume you lost because people aren't following orders. More often than not, people don't follow orders because they have already lost.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My Quote
it's nice if you put in your opinion, but thinking it's the only way to win? marines were designed to have many, many strategies, unlike the aliens. just because you know of a strategy that works for you doesn't mean you should disobey orders and not give new strategies a chance. so if u see a comm that seems like he knows what he's doing, like not asking "how do i upgrade the armory?", give the guy a chance, follow orders, and if the plan fails oh well, try to win next round.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and also, yes, insightful opinions are important, no matter how good the commander is. what i am against is ORDERING the comm around. just making sure u understand that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now your strats...
- Strategy 1 -
In my opinion, from a clan perspective, this is too slow a strategy to be effective against a good alien side. Your problem is not that you aren't holding hives, or that you're teching up, the problem is the amount of time and money spent securing things which in a 6v6 clanmatch would not give you sufficient tech in time to combat a 2 hive alien attack. You're leaving aliens to their own devices, meaning you are allowing them access to as many res nodes as they like, you aren't hassling their gorge, you aren't forcing them to build OCs or killing their DCs. In this situation, lv3 carapace will be up very quickly, which is going to place alot of pressure on your res points if not your base, and the 2nd hive is going to come very fast.
With the amount of resources you are spending on defense, phases, TFs, TFs at res nodes and multiple turrets, your tech speed is going to be very slow. Too slow, i would wager, to mount a decent defence once the 2nd hive is up, considering you will be struggling as soon as the aliens have carapace on the go.
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yes, this strategy does have a weakness, as with any other strategies. this puts all of your marines on defense until u get those resource nodes. this doesn't put TFs on every node, that is why i emphasized on choke points. the amount of defense put on these places are totally up to the commander. carapace is not much of a problem because you have all marines on the same task of defending.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And then halfway down your strat.. this:
10. Make sure you have more than half of the resource nodes in the map.
This is naive. With no pressure on the alien team lv3 carapace will be up very early, which means from a couple of minutes into the game you are going to have enough problems just defending your current positions, nevermind expanding and spreading yourself across the entire map which is beyond realistic. If you also expect to defend each res node when you are not pressuring the alien team at all, no chance in hell against an alien team that knows what its doing. Fades will be up long before you have any means to defend against them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
u seem to think marines are incapable of winning the resource game. this strategy is all about getting the resources. i'd usually have lvl 1 weapons and armor done by the time the resource nearest to a hive is secured. with all the resources u are getting, upgrades for the marines aren't a problem, countering the lvl 3 carapace. and again, with the assumptions. u seem to talk as if i never tried this strategy before. the marines obviously need to be fast as the aliens, and from my experience, you can get those nodes before they start getting fades. remember that you control half the map, which means less resources for them, which means they will get fades slower then usual. if executed right this strategy would get you half the map and hmg's ready to hand out by the time the fades come. HA would be on the way.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is *1* situation where any of this is feasable. A map which has a large number of res nodes in 1 place allowing you to defend them all while spending minimal cash on defence so you can still tech at a good pace. ns_nothing. The idea cannot be applied to any other scenario, and taking cargo bay on nothing has been standard practice since the dawn of time. Trying this strat on a map such as eclipse is very unlikely to work in an equally matched game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, i HAVE. of course, on ns_nothing it would be executed the best, since it is a marine map. but i HAVE used the strategy on other maps, and in my experience, HAVE worked for me. if u study the map a bit i'm sure u can find a few chokepoints yourself.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Strategy 2 -
Much more like it, this strategy makes proper use of the marine early game advantage. You do not necessarily have to hit the hive, as long as you are pressuring the aliens. Primary targets should be defence chambers and the gorge, if you can keep carapace low you've already won half the battle. This strategy spends minimal res on defence so you do not slow your teching speed, there is one gripe i have with your write up, which is the idea of handing out HMGs to LAs who are running at the hive. Expensive equipement in NS is best used all at once, in 1 big attack with a very high probability of success. Giving equipment out in a steady trickle is rarely effective. Hold onto those HMGs untill you have JP researched and enough res to equip everyone with JP/HMG at once. Then go win the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's funny how the game usually ends once those hmg's are handed out, for me. perhaps u need to play with more decent marines. note that motion tracking is done by this time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However.... there is nothing new about the above <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My Quote
as a result i came up with two strategies that work, i'm sure they're not completely unique, i'm sure other people know of them too, but they are different strats, nevertheless. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->? <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, that is the problem i find with holding the hives. if it fails, u dont have the resources to back it up. but this is just a weakness comm's will have to overcome.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mythr1l+Feb 25 2003, 12:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mythr1l @ Feb 25 2003, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the best way to win a game is to rush. at start game aliens dont have carapace, which makes them useless for assaulting marines, and semi-effective at ambushing.
i like to play a style of massive attack, while sending 2 of my marines around to secure res then hives.
start off: 1 ip, armoury.
say a 7v7 game, send 4 marines off to the alien hive, 2 with a pack of mines. 3 defend base (also with a pack of mines) once your 4 marines get to the hive give them an armoury, spam mines with the rest of your res to setup a near-unbreakable line of defence from where marines have a site of the hive (like the first res node oposite hive in cargo bay) skulks wont beat the mines, while 2 marines cover have 2 others go trigger happy on the hive, aliens shouldnt be able to make a comback and kill your marines, all the while your 3 base marines 2 of them go off to get res towers and secure hive with minimal resistance and the 3rd does base dutys.
we played the clan .spacedudes who used this tactic againsted us as aliens, well not the mines but they had us pinned in cargo with 4 marines and locked down 2 hives. we only won cos they went rambo'ing off with jetpack and HMG while we skulk rushed their base <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
a very good use of mines. very nice strategy. i would have to try it.
EDIT - i just thought up of a funny counter for this strat. you know that gorges can set off mines right? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oh BTW just an edit for the HMG rush comment,
HMG rush is a great strat, but only newbie comms will give EVERYONE a hmg and attack. always always must be 2-3 marines left behind to guard base and secure res nodes incase the rush fails. far to many comms cant multi-task and are left screwed because they have ignored the base under attack message for medpack spamming. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
good point. this is definetely a risk-reducer, although having the lmg's follow the hmg'ers to pick up their weapon when they die would put more pressure on their side, although, of course, higher risk there.
really can they? seen gorgs spit at mines but never ever seen a gorge kill them.
This is probably the ONLY POST worth reading on this whole **** forum.
Wow finaly another person who thinks that hives are not worth building a tf and turrets over.
To me a hive is just another res node.
Other than ns_nothing there should not be any reason that you have to spend over 25 res to defend a hive.
Base moving is one of the most riskiest maneuvers to pull of because it would cost 30 res to build another comm chair not to mention the res node you lost in main base. So that comes to a total of 52 total res lost.
Plus It will slow down the upgrades for a considerable amount of time which aliens could get lvl 3 carapice before you get your arms labs up in your new base.
Also the only use for turret factories that i can absolutely think of is the siege.
Building turrets around it will not prevent it from being totaly swarmed by 5 skulks and by the time turrets can actually find a target the tf is in the red zone.
When i am alien i actually hope for the marines to take a hive build a turret factory and a phase gate and res node.
Which all together would have cost them a little over 100 res to secure.
When marines take a hive you have to remember there is another hive out there and would probably be alot harder to get to it and secure it if you spent all the cash on turrets and phase gates than if u would have just spent it on upgrades.
This is probably the ONLY POST worth reading on this whole **** forum.
Wow finaly another person who thinks that hives are not worth building a tf and turrets over.
To me a hive is just another res node.
Other than ns_nothing there should not be any reason that you have to spend over 25 res to defend a hive.
Base moving is one of the most riskiest maneuvers to pull of because it would cost 30 res to build another comm chair not to mention the res node you lost in main base. So that comes to a total of 52 total res lost.
Plus It will slow down the upgrades for a considerable amount of time which aliens could get lvl 3 carapice before you get your arms labs up in your new base.
Also the only use for turret factories that i can absolutely think of is the siege.
Building turrets around it will not prevent it from being totaly swarmed by 5 skulks and by the time turrets can actually find a target the tf is in the red zone.
When i am alien i actually hope for the marines to take a hive build a turret factory and a phase gate and res node.
Which all together would have cost them a little over 100 res to secure.
When marines take a hive you have to remember there is another hive out there and would probably be alot harder to get to it and secure it if you spent all the cash on turrets and phase gates than if u would have just spent it on upgrades. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
glad to see someone agrees with me. i was starting to think i was alone too
Build: 2x IP, Armory, Obs
Scan two hives to determine where their hive is.
Send every marine but myself and one other to attack the hive. Drop mines in base for myself and the other marine. We sit in base for 1 minute max, placing 10-15 mines every where. I jump back in com chair. I send that one marine off to snag every available res node farthest from the hive, while I continue to send EVERY other marine to the alien hive. Re-Spawning marines and mines take care of any lone skulk, and if they attack the main base en masse, they will tend to lose their hive as I health+ammo spam until it goes down. If 4+ of the marines are dead I use emergency distress and just have them keep spamming at the hive. A hive has roughly 6000+ Hp and can be regened; that's 12+ lmg clips. You'd be surprised how easily the hive goes down if they don't defend it. If the kharaa DO defend it; great they're not eating your res TOWERS. Sure you spend 15 res here and there to distress, but that cost is minimal. If there are A LOT of dead aliens (say 50% of the team is respawning) I have the marines build a PG about 50% of the way to the hive next to a res point. I mine it, and keep sending the marines to attack the hive. This FORCES early DC/OC and doesn't let the aliens get RT's or 2nd hive. Meanwhile I have nearly every res point on the map. As the res flows in, you won't be able to spend it fast enough. Snag an arms lab and upgrade weapons 2x, then armor 1x, then weapons. Get MT whenever you want; you'll have the res. Also upgrade the armory whenever; trust me you'll have the res. Get Prot lab whenever and research jp's. Just keep the marines flowing and either the hive will go down or you'll have teched up to hmg/jp with at least lvl 2 damage. Drop some hmg/jp and it's game over. I don't bother with the other hives, except for the farthest hive I might take the res nozzle and if I have too much res I'll drop a tf+4 turrets. This works exceptionally well on...
Ns_nothing if they have cargo hive, but works terribly for the other two hives; In that case take the tri-res in cargo and win easily from their with teching to jp/ha/etc. In caged don't even bother unless they have sewer hive, and even then it most likely won't work unless you can sneak in a PG right next to their hive; and we all know how EASY that is.. It's effective on Ns_Bast if they have Engine Hive, or Feedwater, but not Refinery unless of course you sneak in the phase. On Ns_Nancy it's effective for No Name/Unnamed/Mother hive and Subspace, less effective on Port Engine. On Ns_Hera it might work on Ventilation, but that map can be won more easily from Processing as we all know. On Ns_Tanith it's an O.K. plan but the hives are too spread for it to work truly effectively. On Ns_Eclipse if they have Maint you can win very easily this way, CC and Eclipse hives are just a little too far away for it to work without a PG. I find this tactic works exceptionally well on the pubs because people want to keep killing aliens and if I tell them to keep attacking they tend to listen much more. Anyone who wanders off ends up guarding themselves.
u also seem to be telling me that holding hives with TFs is outdated as if i dont play NS anymore. from what i see, it's still a very popular strategy, but you play on different servers then me, so arguing over this is pointless.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure it is still used frequently on public servers, but then, so is a TF in the marine start. Taking a location before the aliens have carapace is quite simple, and marines can easily take the first hive they move too. But if you idle in that hive long enough to secure it, by the time you move to take the next hive aliens will be upgraded enough to defend against you. They'll also be ready and waiting for you if they have any idea what's going on. In the last patch, clans got around this and secured 2 hives by placing a phase gate in both hives simultaneously at the start of the game. The hives were then defended with a couple of marines and a phase untill there was enough res saved up to tower both hives at the same time. With the new patch, phases are considerably weaker, and more importantly skulks can now sit ontop of a phase and prevent anything coming through it - this makes locking down a hive with just a phase extremely difficult. Since the previous patch, alien teams have also become more preficient in fighting forward phase tactics. Its normal to see skulks diving through phases, and attacking the phase in the main base instead to the phase at the hive. And with the ability to block people coming through the phase, skulks can now play games with defending marines by diving back and forth through phases and blocking anyone who attempts to follow.
I'm not referring to pub play, pub play is very much a random element. Your second strategy is much more like a modern clan strategy, although the act of capping, killing and defending nodes tends to be rather dynamic instead of pre-planned, the theory is the same.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
perhaps u need to play with more decent marines.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps you need to play against decent aliens, blah blah we could **** over this for some time. But i would typically think, if your rush and delay tactics have been so succesful that you can *walk* in and HMG the hive with 2-3 HMGs, then you probably could have finished the game with LMGs anyway.
I'd welcome new strategies, but there will be few realistic strats that have yet to be used. The last really unique strat i saw was the welder rush, but that was some time ago.
Send 90% of your team over to attack the alien's starting hive and 10% to capture an empty hive.
Pick the middle hive if possible:
If aliens spawn in either eclipse or maintenance, take computer core first rather than the other.
Upgrade order:
MT, Armour lvl 1, Weapon 1, Weapon 2, Weapon 3. And get Jets before HA.
Use mines:
Mines are great at defending. Place the mines at captured hive or res point as well.
Relocating:
You don't necessarily have to relocate to a hive. On Hera, you can relocate to Hera Entrance, which is a good position as well.
[QUOTE]If you don't see the value of holding a hive... c'mon you cannot possibly see the many reason why you hold them.[/QUOTE]
no no no, i'm not saying holding hives are wrong. i just think some commanders should put more attention to resource nodes, and since most hives have a resource node, hives are still worthy.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Perhaps you need to play against decent aliens, blah blah we could **** over this for some time. But i would typically think, if your rush and delay tactics have been so succesful that you can *walk* in and HMG the hive with 2-3 HMGs, then you probably could have finished the game with LMGs anyway.[/QUOTE]
well, by the time the HMGs come into play usually the gorge would have put OTs on the hive, which HMGs moe through. LMGs takes too slow to get through OTs compared to HMGs, but keep the aliens busy nevertheless.
I built the traditional sp, armory, obs, and got motion tracking and, when res came in, a few mines. I sent out all but 1 marine in groups of two (since this was a public server, it meant about 5/10 people listened to me at first, the rest were armory humping or telling me I had screwed up somehow and I was a noob).
Ok, so they grab about 4 res before dying, which is fine. Then I send them out to scout hives and find, BUT NOT KILL, the gorge. They find him sitting in one hive, so I tell them NOT to kill him, but I build a tf outside the hive, then turret spam and phase. I upgrade and set up a siege as well, but I make sure they stay far away from hive after this except in defense.
By this time I had lost all but one of my res, so I send my marines back out on a res spree. After a few mins, I went ahead and let my siege go to work (did a sensor sweep of alien base), and sure enough their hive was building. Their gorge just lost 80 res to my siege! Of course, the skulks immediately rushed my old base, so I went ahead and sent everyone through on the orders to kill gorge, then recycled phase and siege (THAT got a few curses), and set up shop outside their main hive. I did the same siege to that, but they were so busy dealing with the new hive that they couldn't respond and hadn't been screwing with my res, so I had a good surplus and got a tf, turret spam, and siege up quick.
Then I destroyed their original hive easily with two sieges, and they immediately rushed the tf and stuff. This time I held it with my marines and got up my proto and arms. I upgraded pretty fast and got some welders in ha with just lmg. I sent the heavy to do the same siege strat to the third unclaimed hive, which they were not building at. By this point, we had won. We ended the game by me giving my entire team ha and nade/hmg and letting them destroy the hive. The final gorge was escorted, prisoner style, through a phase and executed before he died from no hive.
Anyway, I guess my strat is I don't claim hives, at least not in the trad. sense. Instead, I tower spam outside hive, then siege it. This lets the gorge waste the 80 res, but still not get the hive benefit. Also, sucky alien teams won't be able to attack tf, and good teams (depending on where you place tf) will think you are a noob commander for putting tf out in middle of nowhere. At least this is my experience... I have won 4/5 times with this strat so far, each game taking ~35-40 mins.
Granted, this is done on public servers since I have no idea how to get in a clan and don't know any clan servers. Also, your team will hate you and call you a noob com even when you win since you don't get them upgrades fast enough for their liking. I tried this on an "expert" server, but I was booted in the first 5 mins for not putting up an arms lab even though we had the clear advantage <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->, so I've never necessarily used it against "good" players.
Anyway, I'm a fairly new com, so maybe this is just a 5-time fluke, or maybe it's being used by everyone else and I just caught on <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->.
first i build and ip, then i build a turreNt factory and 3 turreNts.
next i build a BACKUP turreNt factory. THIS IS VERY IMPORTATNT IN CASE THE FIRST ONE DIES!
then i build 3 more turrents. you should arrange you now 6 (3 + 3 = 6) turrents in the shape of a jewish star. if you want to see an example of a jewish star go into the secret room on ns_hera (my favorite map) i think the mapper was also a pro commander cause there is a perfect jewish start there.
okay now you're ready for an armory, make sure to upgrade ti as soon as you can so that you will have HMGs to kill all the onos.
o yeah sorry for the spelling errors but well i didnt have time so hehe roflmao. anyway i forgot to say if you get some noobies trying to run awaya from your base and not defend you better get on hlcomm right awya and yell at them to come back cause the base needs defending. its this thing called teamwork, duh!!!!
also like the secure 1 ip, armory, 1 res, upgrade armory, HMG rush. fast and effective. maybe some mines to guard base <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
god...i can rememeber the first time i COMMed and said that i was NOT going to build a TF in base. people went mad! til we won the game with a phase gate rush <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> good old 1.3 days <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
relocate to teh alien's starting hive
while they all skulk rush (admitiedly this was on a pub)
after cc build a huge number of ips and teh aliens loose instanly.
of course this is teh absolute most insane thing i have ever seen an ns commander do but it worked:) and teh man asked for differnt tactics:)
by teh end of teh game in question we had 6 spawn portals a cc and 8 marines:)
Comm listens for hive.
Comm sends .50 of team to alien's main hive and hold it with armory and mines.
Sends other .30 of team to build every res node they can find on map.
The other .20 stays in base and secures it with mines and builds arms labs as soon as you can get 2 other res nodes up.
The great thing about this strategy is only about 2-3 of your best shooters can hold down hive and all the other people need to do is build res nodes and mine up key entrances to hives.
Pretty simple eh?
but yes if one was to actually sdo it as a start it prolly would need to be a bit more arganized