<!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+Mar 2 2003, 08:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Mar 2 2003, 08:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> uncarapaced skulks take 9 basic lmg shots to kill. Yes, ambushing is key. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ok 9 it is. how much time does that take? from where i'm sitting it's just "prrrt" and i'm dead.
if ambushing is key, would anyone agree that the skulks don't really have a viable tactic/strategy (one that causes some disadvantage to the marines) during the start game?
rush is not ambushing. securing the other hives. ok. might take several minutes before marines show up - that's not very interesting gameplay. and in the mean time marines can build their base at their leasure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ambushing is key, would anyone agree that the skulks don't really have a viable tactic/strategy (one that causes some disadvantage to the marines) during the start game? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't agree.
Keep check on marines movement (parasite comes in handy), get there before them and ambush them or attack them from several directions at once. Big attacks like this favors the skulks early in the game because:
1. Marines tend to strafe around and shoot eachother.
2. People get stressed when they have multiple targets and can't pick one.
3. Marines have limited ammo.
Usually a couple of skulks die first, then the marines start dropping like flies once the skulks has closed the gap.
The aliens have speed, flexibility, hivesight and (almost) unlimited "ammo", use it.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--playerman+Mar 3 2003, 11:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (playerman @ Mar 3 2003, 11:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+Mar 2 2003, 08:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Mar 2 2003, 08:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> uncarapaced skulks take 9 basic lmg shots to kill. Yes, ambushing is key. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ok 9 it is. how much time does that take? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> An LMG fires 15 shots/sec, so if all bullets hits you are looking at about 0.6 seconds. A pistol will take a skulk down in about five bullets, which you can fire in about 0.5 seconds. A HMG kills in about ... eh, 0.25 sec. A shotgun blast will kill in just one shot.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Decent ambush tactics give even uncara'd skulks a ratio of 3:1. This gets better if you have cara.
Lure makes it even higher. Walk out in front of the marines, they chase you (like always) you keep running, 2nd skulk drops on them, they die, you turn back & finish the survivors.
Of course you'll get exceptions, 'specially if someone has evil aim. But them's just the breaks. You learn to notice where those aimmers hang in a group, and eat them first. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
well...i gotta a lot to respond to, so here goes....
first, i play to win. when marine, i dont give aliens time to build up for the "sake of the game." that post about winning in 2 minutes. yeah, i do it. so what? what, im susposed to let them have 3 hives first before i attack?
second, carapace rocks as a skull.
third, if 3 people are comming at you, only shoot at 1 at a time. why that was brought up i dont know.
finally, i feel that if marines to do not put up a good offensive they will not win. if they put pressure on the aliens and destroy some structures, the chances of winning are much greater. if i play in a pub, i lose most of the time because people are just sitting around and not rushing. i like to send like a 2 man scout team to the hive just for fun. they get some kills, shoot the hive, distract aliens from my other building and whatnot.
you dont like my strat, fine. do something else. i like to secure a couple res nodes, upgrade, then attack. plain and simple. and its easy to coordinate.
TY all for the big response. alot of good thoughts in this post, keep them comming <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Posted: Mar 1 2003, 06:38 AM
KMO
I say that the main balance problem is that skilled, experienced players tend to go alien on pub servers, where they know that they won't be reliant on an unknown commander, or having to try to persuade armory-humpers to phase. And a couple of skilled skulks, as Eplekongen says, can totally stop the marines from securing anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
to tell you the truth, ive always thought that, but never put it in a post. its so true. i go aliens more on pubs because i dont have to fuss with being comm or playing with noobs.
so it's not much good for the skulks to keep trying to enter marine base. many aliens make that mistake. ambush somewhere along the routes leading away from marine base (not necesarily at the entrance to the base).
Pistol being more powerfull than rifle. probably has less spread to. to some players it's the equivalent of the quake railgun. i'd think it's supposed to be a fall-back weapon. maybe just the max firing rate should be lowered.
Normally a pistol being fired that fast (some 100ms per round..) would have subsequent bullets leaving the barrel during recoil of the previous round (already a problem when firing 2 bullets as quicky as possible), which would cause quite a bit of spread.
I disagree about speed being an important advantage to skulks. yes they are faster then marines, but only marginally. a marine strafe jumping backwards can stay out of a skulk's reach. and of course the skulk can't see very well with his mouth closed, i find i have to re-orientate myself after biting and missing.
Probably my single biggest gripe about skulks: no feedback on making contact. If my target lives it may be just as well because i did not touch him at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Mar 4 2003, 08:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Mar 4 2003, 08:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So how come you're always Marine when I play ya KMO?
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good question. Two answers.
1) Because I often like to play one side until that side wins, then switch. With the usual marine-to-alien win ratio, that does tend to pop me on marines more often than not.
2) I often find alien games unsatisfying, because they're too easy. You don't meet stiff opposition that often. Very few games do I get a real sense of achievement in beating the marines. Whereas most marine wins seem to feel well-deserved.
Oh, and was there an implication that I'm a skilled, experienced player there? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Now, I didn't say that did I? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hey, there are a lot of worse marines I get to chomp down on.
Though I can't wait for 1.1 just so Fwd Ruff can't silent bhop shamelessly anymore
<!--QuoteBegin--a][infect+Feb 27 2003, 10:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a][infect @ Feb 27 2003, 10:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> drop 1 ip, armory. thats it. mine the doors of your base. wait for that always predictable "first rush." kill that off. find the hive. give everyone mines and mine the exits from the hive. if they run out of mines and ammo, drop another armory near the hive. kill all the aliens, or at least all that you can see. gorge might be off somewhere else. move into the hive, kill it and spawn kill the aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It also works on ns_tanith Seen it myself <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
ok 9 it is. how much time does that take?
from where i'm sitting it's just "prrrt" and i'm dead.
if ambushing is key,
would anyone agree that the skulks don't really have a viable tactic/strategy (one that causes some disadvantage to the marines) during the start game?
rush is not ambushing.
securing the other hives. ok. might take several minutes before marines show up - that's not very interesting gameplay. and in the mean time marines can build their base at their leasure.
would anyone agree that the skulks don't really have a viable tactic/strategy (one that causes some disadvantage to the marines) during the start game? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't agree.
Keep check on marines movement (parasite comes in handy), get there before them and ambush them or attack them from several directions at once. Big attacks like this favors the skulks early in the game because:
1. Marines tend to strafe around and shoot eachother.
2. People get stressed when they have multiple targets and can't pick one.
3. Marines have limited ammo.
Usually a couple of skulks die first, then the marines start dropping like flies once the skulks has closed the gap.
The aliens have speed, flexibility, hivesight and (almost) unlimited "ammo", use it.
ok 9 it is. how much time does that take?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
An LMG fires 15 shots/sec, so if all bullets hits you are looking at about 0.6 seconds. A pistol will take a skulk down in about five bullets, which you can fire in about 0.5 seconds. A HMG kills in about ... eh, 0.25 sec. A shotgun blast will kill in just one shot.
Don't get hit.
Lure makes it even higher. Walk out in front of the marines, they chase you (like always) you keep running, 2nd skulk drops on them, they die, you turn back & finish the survivors.
Of course you'll get exceptions, 'specially if someone has evil aim. But them's just the breaks. You learn to notice where those aimmers hang in a group, and eat them first. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
first, i play to win. when marine, i dont give aliens time to build up for the "sake of the game." that post about winning in 2 minutes. yeah, i do it. so what? what, im susposed to let them have 3 hives first before i attack?
second, carapace rocks as a skull.
third, if 3 people are comming at you, only shoot at 1 at a time. why that was brought up i dont know.
finally, i feel that if marines to do not put up a good offensive they will not win. if they put pressure on the aliens and destroy some structures, the chances of winning are much greater. if i play in a pub, i lose most of the time because people are just sitting around and not rushing. i like to send like a 2 man scout team to the hive just for fun. they get some kills, shoot the hive, distract aliens from my other building and whatnot.
you dont like my strat, fine. do something else. i like to secure a couple res nodes, upgrade, then attack. plain and simple. and its easy to coordinate.
TY all for the big response. alot of good thoughts in this post, keep them comming <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Posted: Mar 1 2003, 06:38 AM
KMO
I say that the main balance problem is that skilled, experienced players tend to go alien on pub servers, where they know that they won't be reliant on an unknown commander, or having to try to persuade armory-humpers to phase. And a couple of skilled skulks, as Eplekongen says, can totally stop the marines from securing anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
to tell you the truth, ive always thought that, but never put it in a post. its so true. i go aliens more on pubs because i dont have to fuss with being comm or playing with noobs.
nicely put point there KMO.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
so it's not much good for the skulks to keep trying to enter marine base. many aliens make that mistake.
ambush somewhere along the routes leading away from marine base (not necesarily at the entrance to the base).
Pistol being more powerfull than rifle. probably has less spread to. to some players it's the equivalent of the quake railgun. i'd think it's supposed to be a fall-back weapon. maybe just the max firing rate should be lowered.
Normally a pistol being fired that fast (some 100ms per round..) would have subsequent bullets leaving the barrel during recoil of the previous round (already a problem when firing 2 bullets as quicky as possible), which would cause quite a bit of spread.
I disagree about speed being an important advantage to skulks. yes they are faster then marines, but only marginally.
a marine strafe jumping backwards can stay out of a skulk's reach. and of course the skulk can't see very well with his mouth closed, i find i have to re-orientate myself after biting and missing.
Probably my single biggest gripe about skulks: no feedback on making contact.
If my target lives it may be just as well because i did not touch him at all.
Very annoying indeed.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good question. Two answers.
1) Because I often like to play one side until that side wins, then switch. With the usual marine-to-alien win ratio, that does tend to pop me on marines more often than not.
2) I often find alien games unsatisfying, because they're too easy. You don't meet stiff opposition that often. Very few games do I get a real sense of achievement in beating the marines. Whereas most marine wins seem to feel well-deserved.
Oh, and was there an implication that I'm a skilled, experienced player there? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hey, there are a lot of worse marines I get to chomp down on.
Though I can't wait for 1.1 just so Fwd Ruff can't silent bhop shamelessly anymore
It also works on ns_tanith
Seen it myself <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->