Newbie Nightmare
Thygrrr
Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14189Members
Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14189Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Spoiled by GtkRadiant</div> How are you, Gentlemen! All your base ...
Okay, here's my problem: Choosing the right editor. However, it's a little more complicated than this - I've mapped a bit (and loved every bit of it) for RtcW using GtkRadiant, which I found extremely intuitive to use after a very miniscule investment of my time to learn it - despite the fact that ever since Doom 1 and DEU, I hadn't created or edited any maps for games with an engine from id software ;-)
Now, I've tried QERadiant, but the patched version crashes on my computer so I can't use that to edit any Half-Life related things (and it's not recommended by any of the sites I've seen so far, either).
QuArK - Jeepers, it seems to be developed for Glide (I haven't had a Voodoo card since 1998). It generally dumbfounds me as to how I could even start a Half Life map with QuArK, in the first place. Okay, it's late, I'm tired, but I'm an IT professional and usually figure out all kinds of complex Software in no time to make a living. (Ending my rant about QuArK, it's simply not for me ;-)
I went on to Valve's Hammer. While the interface is solid, the hotkeys (shift-b, shift-s, hey, why do I have to type shift or ctrl everytime...) give me carpal tunnel just from creating my 'HelloWorld' type first room. I think I could eventually get used to Hammer, though GtkRadiant has completely spoiled me in terms of user-friendliness and sheer ease of use (for someone who loves complex things).
And this is where I find myself now, seeing absolutely AWESOME maps such as ns_eclipse with lots of impressive brushwork; yet I have trouble getting even simple square rooms done with the Editors I tried.
So... which editors did the mappers use to create the official NS-maps? Any newbie tips you could give me (as in, how did you learn to map for Half-Life etc. ?) And, in particular (and to make this post more on-topic), which editors are best suited for all the nifty things NS introduced to HL?
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <i>"I love to build things!"</i>
Okay, here's my problem: Choosing the right editor. However, it's a little more complicated than this - I've mapped a bit (and loved every bit of it) for RtcW using GtkRadiant, which I found extremely intuitive to use after a very miniscule investment of my time to learn it - despite the fact that ever since Doom 1 and DEU, I hadn't created or edited any maps for games with an engine from id software ;-)
Now, I've tried QERadiant, but the patched version crashes on my computer so I can't use that to edit any Half-Life related things (and it's not recommended by any of the sites I've seen so far, either).
QuArK - Jeepers, it seems to be developed for Glide (I haven't had a Voodoo card since 1998). It generally dumbfounds me as to how I could even start a Half Life map with QuArK, in the first place. Okay, it's late, I'm tired, but I'm an IT professional and usually figure out all kinds of complex Software in no time to make a living. (Ending my rant about QuArK, it's simply not for me ;-)
I went on to Valve's Hammer. While the interface is solid, the hotkeys (shift-b, shift-s, hey, why do I have to type shift or ctrl everytime...) give me carpal tunnel just from creating my 'HelloWorld' type first room. I think I could eventually get used to Hammer, though GtkRadiant has completely spoiled me in terms of user-friendliness and sheer ease of use (for someone who loves complex things).
And this is where I find myself now, seeing absolutely AWESOME maps such as ns_eclipse with lots of impressive brushwork; yet I have trouble getting even simple square rooms done with the Editors I tried.
So... which editors did the mappers use to create the official NS-maps? Any newbie tips you could give me (as in, how did you learn to map for Half-Life etc. ?) And, in particular (and to make this post more on-topic), which editors are best suited for all the nifty things NS introduced to HL?
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <i>"I love to build things!"</i>
Comments
Anyway, I'll be dabbling with Hammer until the HL version of GtkRadiant is released.
I believe that most (if not all) the offical maps were made in Hammer.
Well, I use the Hammer, simply 'cause the Python code hates my machine, and know that most official NS mappers do, too. Having gathered my first experience with 3D art in an old version of Lightwave, it's the easiest for me. No idea how long you'll have to practice to get really used to it, though.
I'm working on a tool now that should make VHE somewhat more usable.. although I'd still like to see a completely new editor.
I have tried other editors, not all of them for Half-Life. I've used some of the old Doom1/2 editors like DEU and their ilk, QERadiant for Quake 3, some licensed engine called Gamestudio that came from europe, and recently I tried Worldbuilder for C&C Generals. Everyone seems to have their own opinion about what is user friendly and powerful.
Oh, and if you click multiply times on the "clip brush" button you can reverse and cut-in-half the brush you have selected for clipping. This feature alone is gonna save you a proportional amount of time...
AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT USE THE CARVE TOOL WITH ANYTHING THAT ISN'T A SQUARE! VHE absolutly SUCKS at carving;
use the above clip abilites to "split" the first brush up into smaller ones. EX:
1 Make a box (L,h,w) 128,128,16 in size.
2 Split the bos into three using the above "split brush" method into three boxes so you have three tall boxes
3 Split the middle one in half on the horizontal
4 Split the top half into four tall brushes
5 select the four brushes one-by-one and "Cut" the bottoms off to make a arch (visualizing how helps!)
6 delete the other middle brushes except your "arch" so you have 2 walls and a completly Editor friendly arch with no errors.
It takes me about 5-10 minutes to make a complete arch (textures and everything) with no errors. sure, you could take a half-circle and cube and group them, then carve them into the other box, but if you compare the two methods side-by-side you'd see why the latter will give you a "splitting" head ache. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
and thats just something i learn't from one tutorial. There are other really good tutorials out there too... but like i said, VISUALIZE. (It does wonders. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
for the Half-Life engine? I don't mind using VALVe Hammer
but I used JKRadiant for Jedi knight 2 mapping a good 6/7
months ago and very really pleased (and at 1 point addicted).
It was easy to learn, it could handle nice curved brushed
and quite a lot more. The DOS-style compiler was better
than looking at the HLCSG/HLRAD etc Window.
for the Half-Life engine? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Talk to Hydra over at Radiant dev -- he's in charge of adapting GTKRadiant for Half-Life. It's been a while since I've checked on the progress of the adaptation, but I know it's an active project. I've played with an early beta of Half-Life compatible Radiant, and it had a ways to go, but was off to a good start. The beta can load Hammer format maps (texture format is different) with some information loss and save/compile them to the game. Sprite support was included, but decal support wasn't there yet. The main reasons I went back to Hammer were the texture data loss on import and the substitution of 3 point clip for the face splitter... it'd be nice if one of the editors had both options for creating new planes.
EDIT: another important thing I forgot... Radiant doesn't support showing Render Properties at the moment -- alpha channels are determined when textures are loaded and don't vary from ent to ent. This isn't something that Hammer does either, but it is something that I would like to see Radiant doing in future builds.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe Cagey can come up with a long project of a new editor =) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're scaring me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. If I could spend an extended period just coding one project, I might try that... I'd rather focus on shorter term projects for the time being--while I'd like to develop a true CAD interface (command line entry of instructions, ability to specify coordinates through a keyboard interface), it's a huge task to take on as a single developer, and I'd be spending a lot of time reinventing the wheel. There aren't a lot of people who are used to working with CAD, so it wouldn't be widely used.
I'm primarily interested in developing tools and tweaks that address common problems that haven't been solved before <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. The planes fix took me one night once I saw the need for it, and the clipping fix took me about a week including the explanation page--I'd like to continue bringing out new goodies at a regular pace if Real Life continues to let that be possible. I'd also like to finish the NS map I'm supposed to be working on and still have time to <i>play</i> the game, so I don't want to bite off more than I can chew <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->.
I'm making nice Progress and have grown to like Hammer (though Texturing is a ****, maybe I'm doing something wrong ...)
Overall, I get along fine, though I often screw up by doing my radiant way of things - CTRL-Klick on a face selects that face for texturing.... The Hammer Hotkeys are totally unintuitive to me, still.
Anyway... stay tuned for ns_myfirstmap (name yet to be decided, hehe)
bad analogy
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=25182' target='_blank'>Here</a> 's a thread on how to remap Hammer's hotkeys.
Too late to learn a new mapping tool now!
Plus Hammer gives me a lot of control.
Other editor tend to be... "wasteful" and doesn't optimize as much as i want them too...imho.
What wrong with it? Why are other editors so much better? The only thing that I hate about Hammer is that you can't select textures based on configs, you can't have multiple texture filters based on filename (and the fact that it shows you the file path, so you can't see the name), and that there is no prefab for a sphere.
Other than that I think it's just a matter of getting used to and what kind of interface you like. Personally, hate programs that use multiple windows. I prefer One big screen where I have easy access to all the options.