Why...

Killtoy

<div class="IPBDescription">Elysium had to be restarted</div>Because there was just no way for me to redesign the old map to look like this on the outside. And I believe looking like this is what it takes to succeed in making the structural complexity of a NS map.

Killtoy

Oh, and I'm starting to warm up to the idea of subtractive geometry.  <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

KungFuSquirrel

Actually, those faces are getting culled during CSG anyway... No real benefit to using NULL there.

Killtoy

Yeah, I just find it easier to make brushes entirely "null" and then texture the faces I need.
(As opposed to making the brushes to texture and then slapping "null" on the unseen, unculled faces.)

Visable faces are easier to click on. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

edit: The example is there to show my efforts to be efficient with planes. Perhaps a "before" shot would have  been useful to make the point...



<!--EDIT|Killtoy|May 21 2002,02:15-->

Greedo

That may be true, KFS, but its easier to build everything in null and go around texturing what you can see than it is to build everything with something else and go around puttting null on the faces where it would actually have any benefit. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->  (Great minds think alike?)

And Killtoy, if you're doing that to save on planes, well, I understand.  But one thing that I've been doing a lot of recently is when I put in rectangular brushes that are going to be touching the void, I make 100% certain that as many of the sides as possible line up with at least one other rectangular brush's face in my side, front, and/or top view.  It seems to work just as well, and its a lot easier for me to do it that way.



<!--EDIT|Greedo386|May 20 2002,23:13-->

Black_Wolf

mmmm, i make brushes will null texture and then texture them as well. im sorry to hear about the restart, but im looking forward to seeing some new map shots from you.

DruBo

/me thinks killtoy's null texture looks cool.

mine r teh boring.

Yamazaki

CSG will cull those faces whether its NULL or not, and planes will still be used up both those faces even if CSG culls them. The only benefit gained from using NULL is to apply it to the hidden faces of brush entities, not world brushes.

Go back to mapping with your original work and continue, don't try and achieve complete efficiency, just finish something and evaluate it then. Constant evaluation on a work in progress is good, but don't overdo it if it just leads you to dislike your work.

Black_Wolf

we know that yama, its just easier to only texture the faces you need to be seen in game and create the brush with NULL texture on all sides, means that i am secure in knowing exactly what will be displayed and what wont.

Killtoy

<!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->

Hmm, I'll have to post a VHE shot of the old Elysium as an example. The reason I posted this has nothing to do with the NULL texture. I know how the NULL texture works. I am using it this way to minimize r_speeds as much as possible, while not losing time hunting down every invisible face. (Didn't I say this somewhere already?)

This is about plane reduction, not r_speeds. The example is to show how I'm getting as many brushes as possible to share faces. I'm sure this is all old news to some of you, but it is something I had to learn through my failure in the old Elysium. I'm rendering rooms similar to my last Elysium project, but with more than 1/2 as many planes.

And reworking all my old geometry to fit this design style would have been difficult, timer consuming, and stressful. I am really pleased with the decision to restart, it was undoubtedly the right thing to do.