If these two modes were to be implemented, you'd have to make some storyline changes. I like the idea of making a seperate marine branch with different technologies. For the aliens, maybe have one team be the normal kharra, and the other team could be some kind of mutated strain of the kharra bacterium, causing them to go at war with eachother.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What I'm REALLY looking forward to is the alien side.. only four Hives would be needed (each team taking two for a balanced game). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In AvA, you'd need at least 5 hives in order to make the game somewhat balanced. Sure, with each side possessing 2 hives, it would be balanced, but if one side got control of a 3rd hive, it would be over. Onos > skulks. There would be no chance for a comeback. With 5 hives, fades would at least stand a chance against onos and 3 hive aliens. They would at least have a chance at taking a hive back. Then just limit each team to building a total of 3 hives. They can control the 4th hive location so the other team couldn't get it, they just couldn't build a hive in that location.
If the right changes were made, these two modes could work IMO. But as the game is now, just pitting marines against marines or aliens against aliens wouldn't work.
<!--QuoteBegin--heathenSlayer+Mar 10 2003, 10:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (heathenSlayer @ Mar 10 2003, 10:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Will it be map specific, or will it apply to any map already out there? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It would be map specific, just like how different modes in CS are done with the de_, cs_, as_, and es_ prefix. Servers won't just run one type of gameplay, as it will be map specific if done, so don't worry about that. The only thing to worry is if they only run those gameplay maps, which i doubt will happen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only thing to worry is if they only run those gameplay maps, which i doubt will happen. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
someone above said something about ornos Vs skulk - this would be quite tricky surely? as the skulks could all just climb onto the ornos and bite from out of its line of site?
but then i suppose if this worked we'd see more jetpackers riding them.
MvM would be great and encourage even more teamwork + strategy than now. It wouldn't be too hard to add it into the NS universe either. Think of it like the live fire training exercises in Starship troopers. Also instead of hives you could have tech computers. Each one you cap allows you to advance up the tech tree. One for arms labs, one for Protolab etc. This would stop the problem of both teams tech rushing at the start and the same way give the two tech point team the advantage. AvA would probably be a lil more difficult to setup and would be most likely end up as Team Fortress (Alien Edition), Fades = soldiers, Gorge = engi, Onos = HWguy, skulk = scout and lerk = .....sniper(?). Not that thats necessarily a bad thing.
Please do not implement MvM and AvA in NS. Dont get me wrong i like the idea but it wouldnt work. Simply look at the games now. Even if the marines loose 5 times in a row at least 3/4 of the players rush the marine door camping it. You will have no problems to get on the alien side but the marine side is always camped. That means that most people just dont want to learn how to play aliens. They want to own with their "elite" CS skills and theres no unit on the alien side to do that.(You dont need to be a "elite" aimer to kill a slow marine with acid rocked splash damage and skulks cant shoot, well parasite but its to weak to use it as main attack) They want big guns, explosions and lots of kills. Most servers would become MvM and the few AvA would be empty. AvM would also not be played by alot of players because if theres MvM they would say that it is more balanced than AvM. AvM will never be balanced perfectly and every player will think one of the sides owns and therefore not play AvM.
To sum it up: AvM is dead. Long lives Counterst....oops i meant MvM.
It's like when the whole "fy" **** entered the CS domain. I'll admit, I played CS for a LONG time, and when that crap was introduced, it was EVERYWHERE, and normally good servers were taken over by 24/7 fy_fests.
This is what I see applying to NS. The learning curve for NS in general, but especially for getting good as aliens, is pretty steep many say. Steep enough that we have PILES of players who are willing to sit in the Marine entrance for 20 minutes because they don't want to go Aliens.
What I see is servers running solely MvM maps because nobody wants to actually learn how to play aliens, or don't find it as fun as "I AR BIG GUN MAN", when it is, in fact, fun as hell if you learn it. I'm pretty sure that a random post on page 3 of this topic isn't going to effect things much, but I will be disappointed if in the future I'm hard-pressed to find a MvA server to play on...
Keep in mind, after taking the step into the "other-modes" world, you can't go back without losing lots of people. It just seems to be the nature of gamers on the internet, like whiney little babies. "OMG they took out MvM, I'm not playing that *** game anymore!", EVEN IF they thought it was fun before as MvA... people just do that.
ANYWAY, those are my ideas, and trust me, I'll be HAPPY if someone can contest/show me how they are wrong, because I'm worried about the whole new modes thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--neonfaktory+Mar 10 2003, 02:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (neonfaktory @ Mar 10 2003, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am against the new modes. Why?
It's like when the whole "fy" **** entered the CS domain. I'll admit, I played CS for a LONG time, and when that crap was introduced, it was EVERYWHERE, and normally good servers were taken over by 24/7 fy_fests.
This is what I see applying to NS. The learning curve for NS in general, but especially for getting good as aliens, is pretty steep many say. Steep enough that we have PILES of players who are willing to sit in the Marine entrance for 20 minutes because they don't want to go Aliens.
What I see is servers running solely MvM maps because nobody wants to actually learn how to play aliens, or don't find it as fun as "I AR BIG GUN MAN", when it is, in fact, fun as hell if you learn it. I'm pretty sure that a random post on page 3 of this topic isn't going to effect things much, but I will be disappointed if in the future I'm hard-pressed to find a MvA server to play on...
Keep in mind, after taking the step into the "other-modes" world, you can't go back without losing lots of people. It just seems to be the nature of gamers on the internet, like whiney little babies. "OMG they took out MvM, I'm not playing that *** game anymore!", EVEN IF they thought it was fun before as MvA... people just do that.
ANYWAY, those are my ideas, and trust me, I'll be HAPPY if someone can contest/show me how they are wrong, because I'm worried about the whole new modes thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen.
I am amazed at the number of posters who can't wait for M vs M. My advice: STOP WAITING! Just go to the CS server of your choice, and pretend that you are in outer space. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The happy side effect is that there will be more room on the NS servers for people who want to play NS. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--supernorn2000+Mar 10 2003, 02:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Mar 10 2003, 02:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> um...maybe you should protest when AVA and MVM is actually implemented? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then its too late. If we dont stop this nonsense MvM thingie now and the devs implement it because of such threads then NS becomes another gun ho style frag fest. Just look at the thread replies. Most of them say how cool MvM would be and have already strats in mind while only a few even mentioned that AvA would be fun too. Belive me MvM would be the death of AvM because people always go for the easy way if there is one and playing as marine is easy if you are a CS veteran while aliens are hard to learn since they are not ment to be "gun ho frag them from 5000 yard distance units". Its hard to get into biting range without dieing and that scares newbies of from playing aliens since they die befor reaching a target and have no big gun style ranged attack to kill them like they used in CS. (At least till lerks and fades show up but by that time they already pressed F4 and camp the marine entrance)
<!--QuoteBegin--Sandrocky+Mar 10 2003, 11:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sandrocky @ Mar 10 2003, 11:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In AvA, you'd need at least 5 hives in order to make the game somewhat balanced. Sure, with each side possessing 2 hives, it would be balanced, but if one side got control of a 3rd hive, it would be over. Onos > skulks. There would be no chance for a comeback. With 5 hives, fades would at least stand a chance against onos and 3 hive aliens. They would at least have a chance at taking a hive back. Then just limit each team to building a total of 3 hives. They can control the 4th hive location so the other team couldn't get it, they just couldn't build a hive in that location. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Fades stand no chance against current Onos. Their ranged weapon is pathetically weak (does about as much damage as each regen tick heals) and fires slowly. The only thing a Fade could do is flee, unless he gets into a position where he can stay out of reach while shooting the Onos. Even then, you'd need a lot of fades shooting to take it down. The Fade weapon that could take down an Onos quickly are its claws, but somehow a Fade vs. Onos melee seems in favour of the Onos to me. HA/HMG marines have problems with Onos (unless the Onos are outnumbered or stuck), and a Fade is weaker than a HA/HMG.
you have no idea what the devs will do for AVA and MVM. So please, speculation only leads to rumours. Have faith in the dev team for crying out loud. You have a very long time before AVA and MVM will even begin to be implemented so stop protesting and complaining and speculating on the matter... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--supernorn2000+Mar 10 2003, 08:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Mar 10 2003, 08:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you have no idea what the devs will do for AVA and MVM. So please, speculation only leads to rumours. Have faith in the dev team for crying out loud. You have a very long time before AVA and MVM will even begin to be implemented so stop protesting and complaining and speculating on the matter... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He got it.
The <i>only</i> thing anyone can say for <i>sure</i> is that there'll be new gamemodes in future releases (think 'v2.0 and higher'). There is no last word on which gamemodes, there is no last word on how they'll be implemented.
<!--QuoteBegin--supernorn2000+Mar 10 2003, 03:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Mar 10 2003, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you have no idea what the devs will do for AVA and MVM. So please, speculation only leads to rumours. Have faith in the dev team for crying out loud. You have a very long time before AVA and MVM will even begin to be implemented so stop protesting and complaining and speculating on the matter... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope you are right on the very long time till it gets implemented part. Hopefully not before the year 2078 or so.
will one marine team's healthpacks heal the others? ammo? how about gorge's heal spray for aliens? will it render healspray worhtless, and maybe lessen the use of spamming medpacks?
Well, my opinion still stands because it's not based on the actual gameplay mechanics. Unless they do some INTENSE, multi-level, inter-gameplay balancing to balance the MODES between themselves, one mode is going to dominate the other and I just hope the mode that dominates is MvA.
Then again, CS managed to get a pretty good balance between CS and DE (ES is a good example of what I'm talking about), so who knows. All I'm offering is food for thought... err, just something to think about in the meantime, because as I said before, once it's actually implemented and people get accustomed to it, it's too late to back out on a "mistake" without losing people.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--supernorn2000+Mar 10 2003, 08:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Mar 10 2003, 08:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you have no idea what the devs will do for AVA and MVM. So please, speculation only leads to rumours. Have faith in the dev team for crying out loud. You have a very long time before AVA and MVM will even begin to be implemented so stop protesting and complaining and speculating on the matter... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen to that.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Mar 10 2003, 05:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Mar 10 2003, 05:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I personally can't wait for the MvM and AvA modes to be enabled. I mean... imagine it. Marines going up against their own tech, seeing how nasty an HA is. Fades? Heck with that. Try blasting down a walking TANK with an LMG. Jetpackers would be less a problem. Siege Wars. Turretfarms EVERYWHERE. Grenades going off right and left, organized teams actually HAVING to work against one another using guided strategy. Health-waterfalls on each side as groups of LMGers blaze clips away at one another. Welder-duels. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ha, i know a mod u can sort of do that "tfc" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
if they did implement this, there would most likely be an option to choose what you wanted your team to be, and itd work on any map. think of it... if it was alien vs alien, the marine spawn would turn into a 4th hive. if it was marine vs marine, the hives would all become marine spawns. your team would be able to choose its race just as if you were playing an ACTUAL RTS! ever try starcraft or warcraft? you get to choose races, each has their advantages/disadvantges. when aliens/marines are balanced, then people will have fun picking the team they are best with. especially good for clan matches.
stop being ignorant saying MvM is the same as CS. its obvious its not, youve got upgrades, tech trees, resource capping... and a COMMANDER. it would be like 2 terran teams in starcraft or something, would you consider that the same as cs? thats just being ignorant.
<!--QuoteBegin--boberto+Mar 11 2003, 12:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (boberto @ Mar 11 2003, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> stop being ignorant saying MvM is the same as CS. its obvious its not, youve got upgrades, tech trees, resource capping... and a COMMANDER. it would be like 2 terran teams in starcraft or something, would you consider that the same as cs? thats just being ignorant. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that better as hell be correct, because i definitely don't want ns to die as a deathmatch game. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--EnemyATheGates+Mar 10 2003, 07:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EnemyATheGates @ Mar 10 2003, 07:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Mar 10 2003, 05:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Mar 10 2003, 05:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I personally can't wait for the MvM and AvA modes to be enabled. I mean... imagine it. Marines going up against their own tech, seeing how nasty an HA is. Fades? Heck with that. Try blasting down a walking TANK with an LMG. Jetpackers would be less a problem. Siege Wars. Turretfarms EVERYWHERE. Grenades going off right and left, organized teams actually HAVING to work against one another using guided strategy. Health-waterfalls on each side as groups of LMGers blaze clips away at one another. Welder-duels. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ha, i know a mod u can sort of do that "tfc" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not with anywhere near the level of detail or complexity. No Commander in TFC, and bunnyhopping morons will be being slapped down in v1.1 of NS. It might have some similarities, but it'd have at least as many differences, if not many more.
I personally cant wait for MvM and AvA. It'll add a whole new dimension to gameplay. However, i think it WILL require that a map be <b>specifically</b> MvM, AvM, or AvA. First for theme, and second for level design. Turning an AvM map into MvM by just making one marines start out in a hive will not make for good gameplay.
I cant wait to see a snarling, snapping mess of 5 skulks fighting to kill/protect a gorge. Or to see 2 sqauds of HAs duking it out, trying to 'dance' (RTS term) the wounded heavies out for welding behind the frontline while the others continue pouring lead into eachother.
Resources make every difference in the world. In order to win you have to have them, that means that they have a goal rather then just fragging each other like mad, the reason CS is so DMish is because there is NO goal otherwise to kill everyone, thats how you win. Your comparing apples and oranges when you talk about MvM and CS.
IMO there would be nothing cooler than Lerk v Lerk and Massive battles in the hives along with weird battles in the vents from the getgo
<!--QuoteBegin--Trojan2+Mar 10 2003, 11:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trojan2 @ Mar 10 2003, 11:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OK for real, Team fortress in space? look at it now when you have two unorganized teams (as in pubs) Aliens dominte. Through in a good well organized team orintated group of marines and suddenly its more "how long can aliens stay in the game" Sides asside that should tell you the differnce between good teams of marines and guys "just wanting teh ki11z and winz" With MoM its going to be even less about how well you can circle strafe and more about listening to the comm and the comm haveing Good tight tactics. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> MoM <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I forsee one of 3 things happening upon the release of AvA and MvM gametypes: 1) It isn't as good. NS remains large while only a few people play the new gametype for kicks or as a break between AvM rounds. The best possible outcome, IMHO. 2) It's better than NS (somehow). The resulting death of AvM gameplay would kill the 'idea' of NS, perhaps causing Flay to exit stage left. 3) They both draw equal followings. This is actually the worst. It would make NS into two smaller (But similar!) games, neither of which would likely survive on it's own. It would also cause either slow updates or a split in the dev team to either side, which would contribute to the death of NS and it's derivitaves.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+Mar 11 2003, 12:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Mar 11 2003, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Talesin put it best earlier.
MvM will be great, as will AvA. Why you ask ?
Resources make every difference in the world. In order to win you have to have them, that means that they have a goal rather then just fragging each other like mad, the reason CS is so DMish is because there is NO goal otherwise to kill everyone, thats how you win. Your comparing apples and oranges when you talk about MvM and CS.
IMO there would be nothing cooler than Lerk v Lerk and Massive battles in the hives along with weird battles in the vents from the getgo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry but this simply is not correct. CS has goals other than to "kill everybody else" i.e. you can win by bomb/ hostage rescue. If more CS players actually realized this then the game would be better off. It seems that CS is somewhat unfairly judged because of the way people tend to play it, as opposed to the possibilities it offers. Even in a game like Operation Flashpoint you can have a "deathmatch" mentality. Its almost impossible to eliminate that from any game because of the human factor <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And as a side note: How did I deal with those guys using the alien skin hack to turn themselves into marines ?. Using standard ambush/pistol tactics honed in none other than CS. Worked well enough.
Would MvM be deathmatch ?: The short answer is it depends on the players. The long answer involves design decisions by the NS team etc.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What I'm REALLY looking forward to is the alien side.. only four Hives would be needed (each team taking two for a balanced game).
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In AvA, you'd need at least 5 hives in order to make the game somewhat balanced. Sure, with each side possessing 2 hives, it would be balanced, but if one side got control of a 3rd hive, it would be over. Onos > skulks. There would be no chance for a comeback. With 5 hives, fades would at least stand a chance against onos and 3 hive aliens. They would at least have a chance at taking a hive back. Then just limit each team to building a total of 3 hives. They can control the 4th hive location so the other team couldn't get it, they just couldn't build a hive in that location.
If the right changes were made, these two modes could work IMO. But as the game is now, just pitting marines against marines or aliens against aliens wouldn't work.
It would be map specific, just like how different modes in CS are done with the de_, cs_, as_, and es_ prefix. Servers won't just run one type of gameplay, as it will be map specific if done, so don't worry about that. The only thing to worry is if they only run those gameplay maps, which i doubt will happen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From your mouth to God's ears.
but then i suppose if this worked we'd see more jetpackers riding them.
oh, i'm all confused
AvA would probably be a lil more difficult to setup and would be most likely end up as Team Fortress (Alien Edition), Fades = soldiers, Gorge = engi, Onos = HWguy, skulk = scout and lerk = .....sniper(?). Not that thats necessarily a bad thing.
[EDIT] Blatant spelling errors.
To sum it up: AvM is dead. Long lives Counterst....oops i meant MvM.
It's like when the whole "fy" **** entered the CS domain. I'll admit, I played CS for a LONG time, and when that crap was introduced, it was EVERYWHERE, and normally good servers were taken over by 24/7 fy_fests.
This is what I see applying to NS. The learning curve for NS in general, but especially for getting good as aliens, is pretty steep many say. Steep enough that we have PILES of players who are willing to sit in the Marine entrance for 20 minutes because they don't want to go Aliens.
What I see is servers running solely MvM maps because nobody wants to actually learn how to play aliens, or don't find it as fun as "I AR BIG GUN MAN", when it is, in fact, fun as hell if you learn it. I'm pretty sure that a random post on page 3 of this topic isn't going to effect things much, but I will be disappointed if in the future I'm hard-pressed to find a MvA server to play on...
Keep in mind, after taking the step into the "other-modes" world, you can't go back without losing lots of people. It just seems to be the nature of gamers on the internet, like whiney little babies. "OMG they took out MvM, I'm not playing that *** game anymore!", EVEN IF they thought it was fun before as MvA... people just do that.
ANYWAY, those are my ideas, and trust me, I'll be HAPPY if someone can contest/show me how they are wrong, because I'm worried about the whole new modes thing.
It's like when the whole "fy" **** entered the CS domain. I'll admit, I played CS for a LONG time, and when that crap was introduced, it was EVERYWHERE, and normally good servers were taken over by 24/7 fy_fests.
This is what I see applying to NS. The learning curve for NS in general, but especially for getting good as aliens, is pretty steep many say. Steep enough that we have PILES of players who are willing to sit in the Marine entrance for 20 minutes because they don't want to go Aliens.
What I see is servers running solely MvM maps because nobody wants to actually learn how to play aliens, or don't find it as fun as "I AR BIG GUN MAN", when it is, in fact, fun as hell if you learn it. I'm pretty sure that a random post on page 3 of this topic isn't going to effect things much, but I will be disappointed if in the future I'm hard-pressed to find a MvA server to play on...
Keep in mind, after taking the step into the "other-modes" world, you can't go back without losing lots of people. It just seems to be the nature of gamers on the internet, like whiney little babies. "OMG they took out MvM, I'm not playing that *** game anymore!", EVEN IF they thought it was fun before as MvA... people just do that.
ANYWAY, those are my ideas, and trust me, I'll be HAPPY if someone can contest/show me how they are wrong, because I'm worried about the whole new modes thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen.
The happy side effect is that there will be more room on the NS servers for people who want to play NS. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Then its too late. If we dont stop this nonsense MvM thingie now and the devs implement it because of such threads then NS becomes another gun ho style frag fest. Just look at the thread replies. Most of them say how cool MvM would be and have already strats in mind while only a few even mentioned that AvA would be fun too. Belive me MvM would be the death of AvM because people always go for the easy way if there is one and playing as marine is easy if you are a CS veteran while aliens are hard to learn since they are not ment to be "gun ho frag them from 5000 yard distance units". Its hard to get into biting range without dieing and that scares newbies of from playing aliens since they die befor reaching a target and have no big gun style ranged attack to kill them like they used in CS. (At least till lerks and fades show up but by that time they already pressed F4 and camp the marine entrance)
Fades stand no chance against current Onos. Their ranged weapon is pathetically weak (does about as much damage as each regen tick heals) and fires slowly. The only thing a Fade could do is flee, unless he gets into a position where he can stay out of reach while shooting the Onos. Even then, you'd need a lot of fades shooting to take it down. The Fade weapon that could take down an Onos quickly are its claws, but somehow a Fade vs. Onos melee seems in favour of the Onos to me.
HA/HMG marines have problems with Onos (unless the Onos are outnumbered or stuck), and a Fade is weaker than a HA/HMG.
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He got it.
The <i>only</i> thing anyone can say for <i>sure</i> is that there'll be new gamemodes in future releases (think 'v2.0 and higher'). There is no last word on which gamemodes, there is no last word on how they'll be implemented.
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I hope you are right on the very long time till it gets implemented part. Hopefully not before the year 2078 or so.
we are very near to 1.1 right now.....MVM and AVA is expected around 2.0
(possibly inaccurate) Timescale:
<b>1.1</b>->1.11->1.12->1.13->1.14-><b>1.2-</b>>1.21->1.22->1.23->1.24-><b>1.3</b>->1.31->1.32->1.33->1.34-><b>1.4</b>->1.41->1.42->1.43->1.44-><b>1.5</b>
Thats just Half.....so yes...quite a long time...
Well, my opinion still stands because it's not based on the actual gameplay mechanics. Unless they do some INTENSE, multi-level, inter-gameplay balancing to balance the MODES between themselves, one mode is going to dominate the other and I just hope the mode that dominates is MvA.
Then again, CS managed to get a pretty good balance between CS and DE (ES is a good example of what I'm talking about), so who knows. All I'm offering is food for thought... err, just something to think about in the meantime, because as I said before, once it's actually implemented and people get accustomed to it, it's too late to back out on a "mistake" without losing people.
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Amen to that.
I mean... imagine it. Marines going up against their own tech, seeing how nasty an HA is. Fades? Heck with that. Try blasting down a walking TANK with an LMG. Jetpackers would be less a problem. Siege Wars. Turretfarms EVERYWHERE. Grenades going off right and left, organized teams actually HAVING to work against one another using guided strategy. Health-waterfalls on each side as groups of LMGers blaze clips away at one another. Welder-duels. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ha, i know a mod u can sort of do that "tfc" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
stop being ignorant saying MvM is the same as CS. its obvious its not, youve got upgrades, tech trees, resource capping... and a COMMANDER. it would be like 2 terran teams in starcraft or something, would you consider that the same as cs? thats just being ignorant.
that better as hell be correct, because i definitely don't want ns to die as a deathmatch game. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I mean... imagine it. Marines going up against their own tech, seeing how nasty an HA is. Fades? Heck with that. Try blasting down a walking TANK with an LMG. Jetpackers would be less a problem. Siege Wars. Turretfarms EVERYWHERE. Grenades going off right and left, organized teams actually HAVING to work against one another using guided strategy. Health-waterfalls on each side as groups of LMGers blaze clips away at one another. Welder-duels. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ha, i know a mod u can sort of do that "tfc" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not with anywhere near the level of detail or complexity. No Commander in TFC, and bunnyhopping morons will be being slapped down in v1.1 of NS. It might have some similarities, but it'd have at least as many differences, if not many more.
I cant wait to see a snarling, snapping mess of 5 skulks fighting to kill/protect a gorge. Or to see 2 sqauds of HAs duking it out, trying to 'dance' (RTS term) the wounded heavies out for welding behind the frontline while the others continue pouring lead into eachother.
MvM will be great, as will AvA. Why you ask ?
Resources make every difference in the world. In order to win you have to have them, that means that they have a goal rather then just fragging each other like mad, the reason CS is so DMish is because there is NO goal otherwise to kill everyone, thats how you win. Your comparing apples and oranges when you talk about MvM and CS.
IMO there would be nothing cooler than Lerk v Lerk and Massive battles in the hives along with weird battles in the vents from the getgo
With MoM its going to be even less about how well you can circle strafe and more about listening to the comm and the comm haveing Good tight tactics. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
MoM <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
1) It isn't as good. NS remains large while only a few people play the new gametype for kicks or as a break between AvM rounds. The best possible outcome, IMHO.
2) It's better than NS (somehow). The resulting death of AvM gameplay would kill the 'idea' of NS, perhaps causing Flay to exit stage left.
3) They both draw equal followings. This is actually the worst. It would make NS into two smaller (But similar!) games, neither of which would likely survive on it's own. It would also cause either slow updates or a split in the dev team to either side, which would contribute to the death of NS and it's derivitaves.
<--- Pessimist
MvM will be great, as will AvA. Why you ask ?
Resources make every difference in the world. In order to win you have to have them, that means that they have a goal rather then just fragging each other like mad, the reason CS is so DMish is because there is NO goal otherwise to kill everyone, thats how you win. Your comparing apples and oranges when you talk about MvM and CS.
IMO there would be nothing cooler than Lerk v Lerk and Massive battles in the hives along with weird battles in the vents from the getgo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry but this simply is not correct. CS has goals other than to "kill everybody else" i.e. you can win by bomb/ hostage rescue. If more CS players actually realized this then the game would be better off. It seems that CS is somewhat unfairly judged because of the way people tend to play it, as opposed to the possibilities it offers. Even in a game like Operation Flashpoint you can have a "deathmatch" mentality. Its almost impossible to eliminate that from any game because of the human factor <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And as a side note: How did I deal with those guys using the alien skin hack to turn themselves into marines ?. Using standard ambush/pistol tactics honed in none other than CS. Worked well enough.
Would MvM be deathmatch ?: The short answer is it depends on the players. The long answer involves design decisions by the NS team etc.