<!--QuoteBegin--=DD=Wolf Kahler+Mar 10 2003, 10:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (=DD=Wolf Kahler @ Mar 10 2003, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, Road, I hope you're not using any converted models. Especially not my SVI. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well than you'll be happy to know I use NO converted models.... any custom model I do use has either been an original made by another author or myself in the case of a few. So don't worry, I don't think I'll ever go against my word of being against conversion models <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why I even still visit these forums is beyond my own comprehension.... more credit is given to hackjobs and conversions than they are to original models, which seem to become more few and far between....
I doubt there's much that can be done to keep this thread from being locked by the first mod that wanders by, but in the meantime, let's keep it <i>somewhat</i> civil in here, folks . . .
take a second to think...what the hell are we? a community? or a group of retards beating eachother with a stick to see who can last the longest?
your entitled to your opinion, but don't blatently flame somone because they left A name (not even yours) out of the post...nice little comments like "did you do that yourself?" would have been better than "you !$^@& retard hacker, go back in your Q!@#$^&!@#$ hole we hate you!"
<!--QuoteBegin--Delarosa+Mar 10 2003, 09:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delarosa @ Mar 10 2003, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> take a second to think...what the hell are we? a community? or a group of retards beating eachother with a stick to see who can last the longest? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhm.... is that a trick question?
<!--QuoteBegin--Surge+Mar 10 2003, 05:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Surge @ Mar 10 2003, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Delarosa+Mar 10 2003, 09:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delarosa @ Mar 10 2003, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> take a second to think...what the hell are we? a community? or a group of retards beating eachother with a stick to see who can last the longest? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhm.... is that a trick question? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> depends.... do you have a stick? (your suposed to take it as "stop bickering....we are suposed to be on the same side")
Well, since I am good friends with Surge, roadmaster, and I have a sense of dignity, which is more than Wolf Kahler can say, I have decided to help him in prooving how much of a selfish jackass Wolf Kahler is (Please note that throughout this, I am taking few jabs at sheela herself, who has done little wrong compared to Wolf)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And do you go hounding anyone else that posts MWIP stuff of their conversions if they don't immediately say who did the originals?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you really think that he's going to spend all his time patrolling this hellhole policing everyone like a **** ing gestapo? If you see someone doing something bad, you get them to stop, end of story, he barely insulted her in the slightest bit
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's a trivia question, see if you can answer it without looking at the original thread: who made the WH40K player models I originally did a crap job of converting?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
how the **** ing hell does that apply to the conversation?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't jump down her throat just because people make assumptions. Hell, English <b>isn't her native language</b>. She's <b>Japanese</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Being japaneese has no **** ing thing to do with it. I speak okay french, but if I was to go on some french forum, convert a model and say "Look what I've been working on!" (or "Regardez quoi J'ai ete travaille sur!") It's still bad, "He's english" is no freaking excuse for behavior
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe she was mistaken in expecting people to remember someone who's been giving consistently to this community since the damned game came out! Oh, gee, burn her on a stake because you've got pretty much **** for memory.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No-one said anything about her not giving lots to the community. In a case like this, however, sometimes people need reminding to give credit where credit is due. I truely believe she did not mean to make it seem as if she had made it herself, but she did make it seem like that, and people were praising her for things she did not do. Surge's memory has nothing to do with it, we are officially past the point where you are making **** up
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah, she was the one who had that avatar all you kids were drooling over because, ou, wow, it was actually her and she's pretty much sexier than your moms, and she knows more about guns than you, plays games, has a better knowledge of history, works for Tokyo Marui, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? Remember that?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That has no **** ing appliance to this conversation. This is about sheela not giving credit, not about how hot she may or may not be, I dont know, I havent seen her old avatar. Even if she is the alpha and omega of attractiveness, that doesnt mean shes automatically right. In fact, it sounds more to me like you are a fanboy who is trying to protect her no matter what she does, and no matter what others say to her, especially since we barely said much to her, just a "Please give credit where credit is due, you made it seem as if you did it yourself". Along comes wolf: "OMG you jackass she's japanese, japanese>you, you suck!"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Who the hell else finds as many rare reference pics as Sheena does, no matter who asks for them, or for what reason? She's done nothing but be helpful. And, hell, she's even investing in some of the stuff I stopped doing, so you, you ****, could still have your bloody custom crap to pwn with!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like he said, he doesnt even use it, neither do I, because I personally like using stuff that applies to the game setting. No-one ever said anything about her not being helpful all the time, sheela has done good things for this community, obviously. But, just because shes done good stuff before doesnt mean shes automatically right when she doesnt something bad, even if a mod said or did something bad, the forum regulars still correct him, tell him not to do it again, they dont just ignore it because hes a mod, and in the end as long as they dont do it again, everything is back to the way it was before
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What the hell's your damned problem, jumping on her because, ou, wow, she uses ReadMe files <b><u>if and when she actually releases something</b></u>?! Don't blame <b>her</b> for your own laziness or foul mood, kid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem? You **** head. Releasing it has nothing to do with it at all, shes showing off work and making it seem as though she did it herself. Jumping on her? You call THIS jumping?:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Surge: Give some credit next time, please. Surge: Because of comments like this. They're all thinking you did the work. And who looks at Readme's that closely? It's your job to find the creator and ask him, not for the creator to find you and reprimand you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jumping eh? You **** head. Now he's blaming her for his own laziness and foul mood? Laziness to do what? He hardly sounded foul, maybe you need to improve your social skills a little more before trying to communicate with someone smarter than you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gimme-gimme-gimme! You don't even have enough respect to remember who's been giving you stuff on a silver platter for months!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gimme gimme gimme? I'd like to see you name 1 **** ing time when surge even used a custom model. What shes given in the past has nothing to do with what she did now. Btw, Silver platter my ****, ****
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Suck it up. You probably won't be getting anything released out of her anymore now either. All she was trying to do is help! Good move, jerk-off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, Surge told her to give credit for anothers work, so shes going to run off to her room crying and stop making models? I'm sure you'll be right there behind her, helping her out through the hard times, you **** ing fanboy. We barely said anything bad about her anyway, just that she needs to give credit to the original authors, It must of made her really sad, eh? Fanboy Wolf comes along and tries to get laid, how heroic of you.
(NOTE: I removed the size tags from the next quote) <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>SHE WASN'T DONE WITH THE DAMNED THING! NOT READY TO RELEASE! UNTIL SHE'S DONE, SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO REMIND YOU ALL OF WHO SHE IS IF YOU CAN'T BLOODY REMEMBER FOR YOUR OWN DAMNED SELVES!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sure making your text about 5x larger will make surge think about it alot more, **** head. It doesnt matter if she was ready to release, she still showed off work she didnt do and make it seem as if she did it herself through words that were not carefully chosen. Who she is has nothing to do with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And don't bother getting all defensive about why you're perfectly justified in riding her to make yourself feel somehow important, punk. You aren't. Drop it and get a clue.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hes quite justified, riding I would say hardly, and I dont think surge needs to feel any more important, he's already a respected community member, and obviously now, you are not.
Somehow i find myself in agreement with Wolf Kahler on the topic "surge" and why the hell should she ask for permission to use a random model to to play around with? i mean... had she come as far as to release it, of course she should ask for the permission (of wich i have no doubt she would have done) , but since she dident release it but just showed of what she had come up with this far.
and yes i am one of those in favor of custom models, be it hackjobs or originals. and Yes i also like the idea she came up with.
What then, Tzarcon, made this post any different to the other "hackjobs" out there that he felt he had to comment?
Surge: So sheena didn't give credit on a WiP post. Boo-f*cking-hoo. I don't doubt she would have given full credit in her readme. People don't read it? Well that's tough t*tty-biscuits to them.
The fact of the matter is that I don't see the original creator jumping into this thread on a self-righteous mission to belittle someone. If he/she doesn't want the model to be used, let he/she come here and say so. You have no right to come here and cry 'wolf!' (no pun intended).
So how about you take your attitude, shove it up your *rse and f*ck off back under whichever rock you crawled out from.
the parties of RoadMaster and co. do not represent any of the following ****ing, ****fully, or ****heads which were mensioned by Tzarcon... please have a nice day <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
PS. Nor do we represent Tzarcon's spelling skills <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
like Tzarcon said, I'm sure sheena didn't mean to leave out credits, but I think it should be made a forum rule that you give proper and complete credits where due, you can't expect someone who is from for example the q3 community to scan every half-life or any other game's forums to make sure that their work is not being used under someone else's name. They contributed to their community, why should they have to do the extra work? If you want to convert something then you make sure people know its a conversion.
<!--QuoteBegin--legion / gimpeh+Mar 10 2003, 11:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legion / gimpeh @ Mar 10 2003, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fact of the matter is that I don't see the original creator jumping into this thread on a self-righteous mission to belittle someone. If he/she doesn't want the model to be used, let he/she come here and say so. You have no right to come here and cry 'wolf!' (no pun intended). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The original model for one thing was made for Q3.... why Harlequin would be on NS's degenerating modelling forum would be beyond my comprehension. It's the converter's job to contact original authors of models... not the modeller's job to scour the internet for any of their work which has been stolen without their permission. The more people pull this stupid idea out that the original authors should be more careful or something with their work, the more I want to e-mail those original authors and ask them what THEY think of their work being taken without permission, or if it is unsure if permission was asked, than if they were asked at all. I know if someone started making a "Piggorge" thread and posted screenshots of my model without any mension of my name I wouldn't stand for it.
And just as an extra note... because this seems odd to me. Sheena said that credits would be given in the readme if it were released... yet Sheena also said that she found the model on someone else's computer, and the way it sounded was that no sign of the original author was even available. Correct this if I'm wrong sheena, but it sounds like a contradiction to me...
I think you all should just stop spammin the damn topic. Maybe she might have got the point the first time but do you guys who have no real involvement really have to agrue about it?
By the way sheena the model looks pretty good, hope you can fix it for us. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
MartOrigin of SUYFJoin Date: 2002-02-26Member: 248Members
<!--QuoteBegin--legion / gimpeh+Mar 11 2003, 04:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legion / gimpeh @ Mar 11 2003, 04:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fact of the matter is that I don't see the original creator jumping into this thread on a self-righteous mission to belittle someone. If he/she doesn't want the model to be used, let he/she come here and say so. You have no right to come here and cry 'wolf!' (no pun intended). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, because the creator ahs nothing better to do than to roam the Internet everyday to see what poorly done hacks and conversions are being done to their model.
It's the model makers responsibility to contact the authour in advance to get their permission to do a conversion or hack job. That and it's generally a common curtesy to ask before doing.
You guys are all flamers/or lamers! Stop your whinning... I want the GUN! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
i sens alot of tension in here... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> why don't we all get some icecream and forget about it, no reason to get angry and say things we don't mean...
<!--QuoteBegin--legion / gimpeh+Mar 10 2003, 06:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legion / gimpeh @ Mar 10 2003, 06:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Surge: So sheena didn't give credit on a WiP post. Boo-f*cking-hoo. I don't doubt she would have given full credit in her readme. People don't read it? Well that's tough t*tty-biscuits to them.
The fact of the matter is that I don't see the original creator jumping into this thread on a self-righteous mission to belittle someone. If he/she doesn't want the model to be used, let he/she come here and say so. You have no right to come here and cry 'wolf!' (no pun intended).
So how about you take your attitude, shove it up your *rse and f*ck off back under whichever rock you crawled out from. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I didnt think it was possible, but Wolf's reign of stupidity may in competition with a possibly stupider ***hole.
You always have to ask permission, in fact it was actually recently made against the law to find something else on the internet made by a 3rd party and use it however you please without consent from that 3rd party or person. If the makers of those models dont want them used in Natural Selection, then they arnt to be, so if you dont ask permission you dont know if they mind or not, I bet those modelers would be pretty **** if they were going through these forums and found someone using their models without their permission. Its just not what you do, unless you're a jack*** like yourself
Here's some more nice evidence I'd like to bring to the table, from the READMEs of the original models...
"You may redistribute this weapon by any electronic means as long as (a) it is unmodified (b) you do not profit financialy from it's distribution. If you base any furter weapons on this base, please give the relevant credits - thankyou."
That's from Harlequin's readme
"Dont alter the files included in this zip-file, the pk3-file must always be provided with this readme-file. If you want to use this weapon-replacement for your own purposes please e-mail me or Redlemons first."
That's from the redlemon and Balou readme
I think they don't want you making conversions of their work <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--RoadMaster+Mar 10 2003, 03:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RoadMaster @ Mar 10 2003, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Here's some more nice evidence I'd like to bring to the table, from the READMEs of the original models...
"You may redistribute this weapon by any electronic means as long as (a) it is unmodified (b) you do not profit financialy from it's distribution. If you base any furter weapons on this base, please give the relevant credits - thankyou."
That's from Harlequin's readme
"Dont alter the files included in this zip-file, the pk3-file must always be provided with this readme-file. If you want to use this weapon-replacement for your own purposes please e-mail me or Redlemons first."
That's from the redlemon and Balou readme
I think they don't want you making conversions of their work <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't care! I still want it!
we've been bickering this whole time, we've said some hurtful words, we've gotten our points across... can we leave it alone now? i'm sure we've all learned a lesson, can we drop it and move on?
last i checked sheena was having PROBLEMS and asked for help... not a flame war
another thing we might wanna think about is what is all this bickering causing, tension, opinion changes, shifts in favor?
i still respect Wolf, only because he write elegantly... i don't respect Tzarcon because he misses the relevance... i alsmot respect Roadmaster for flaming me when i was asking for it......
but beyond all the elegance, all the relevance, and all the flames, we need to shut up, help eachother, and be the freinds we are suposed to be.... we are here because we are a <b>FRIENDS</b>... lest mature up, and act like it. <b>undefined</b> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'> </span>
<!--QuoteBegin--Tzarcon+Mar 10 2003, 11:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tzarcon @ Mar 10 2003, 11:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I didnt think it was possible, but Wolf's reign of stupidity may in competition with a possibly stupider ***hole.
You always have to ask permission, in fact it was actually recently made against the law to find something else on the internet made by a 3rd party and use it however you please without consent from that 3rd party or person. If the makers of those models dont want them used in Natural Selection, then they arnt to be, so if you dont ask permission you dont know if they mind or not, I bet those modelers would be pretty **** if they were going through these forums and found someone using their models without their permission. Its just not what you do, unless you're a jack*** like yourself <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I will refrain from remarking on your grammar whilst you call me stupid.
However, I do believe that you have entirely missed the point. We did not deny that sheena would have to ask permission to release. She doesn't, however, need to give credit on a work in progress thread where it might not go anywhere.
Oh, and to set you straight, if I do model, I model from scratch. So you can take that generalised assumption and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
I will however be expecting you guys, who I hearby dub "The Righteous Trio" to jump onto any WIP thread that doesn't give credit where due and cry foul. Otherwise we might just assume the lot of you are trolls.
<!--QuoteBegin--Delarosa+Mar 10 2003, 06:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delarosa @ Mar 10 2003, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i still respect Wolf, only because he write elegantly... i don't respect Tzarcon because he misses the relevance... i alsmot respect Roadmaster for flaming me when i was asking for it...... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> elegantly? You call insulting Surge, swearing a little, making lots of **** up, and starting a flame war <b>elegant?</b> I dont care how elegant you think he is, what he isnt is someone that deserves your respect, you know that.
And what relevance? The relevance here is that Sheena didnt something she shouldnt of, and wolf came along acting heroic and started a flame war, while me and road stepped in to defend Surge, who is more respected than wolf could ever be.
MartOrigin of SUYFJoin Date: 2002-02-26Member: 248Members
Tzarcon is entitled to his opinion. You're all missing the point that Roadmaster has already posted quotes from the original models ReadMes clearly stating that they aren't to be edited or ported in anyway. By rights these shots shouldn't even be here.
<!--QuoteBegin--Tzarcon+Mar 10 2003, 06:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tzarcon @ Mar 10 2003, 06:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Delarosa+Mar 10 2003, 06:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delarosa @ Mar 10 2003, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i still respect Wolf, only because he write elegantly... i don't respect Tzarcon because he misses the relevance... i alsmot respect Roadmaster for flaming me when i was asking for it...... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> elegantly? You call insulting Surge, swearing a little, making lots of **** up, and starting a flame war <b>elegant?</b> I dont care how elegant you think he is, what he isnt is someone that deserves your respect, you know that.
And what relevance? The relevance here is that Sheena didnt something she shouldnt of, and wolf came along acting heroic and started a flame war, while me and road stepped in to defend Surge, who is more respected than wolf could ever be.
I dont remember roadmaster ever flaming you, btw. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and it's never what he writes, it's HOW... something you AND me need to work on....
-=[EDIT]=- and NOBODY can fight with me on that one!
<!--QuoteBegin--legion / gimpeh+Mar 10 2003, 06:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legion / gimpeh @ Mar 10 2003, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> However, I do believe that you have entirely missed the point. We did not deny that sheena would have to ask permission to release. She doesn't, however, need to give credit on a work in progress thread where it might not go anywhere.
Oh, and to set you straight, if I do model, I model from scratch. So you can take that generalised assumption and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
I will however be expecting you guys, who I hearby dub "The Righteous Trio" to jump onto any WIP thread that doesn't give credit where due and cry foul. Otherwise we might just assume the lot of you are trolls. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First, Id like to say we've all really been getting carried away with the swear words, lets calm that down...
sheena still needs permission to post the work here, because she implied she did it herself and showed something, and made everyone think she was really that good.
I never did say you model at all, and I would hope you do anyway
I would rather not patrol these forums like a gestapo, Im only even here because I was defending surge
<!--QuoteBegin--legion / gimpeh+Mar 10 2003, 11:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legion / gimpeh @ Mar 10 2003, 11:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I will however be expecting you guys, who I hearby dub "The Righteous Trio" to jump onto any WIP thread that doesn't give credit where due and cry foul. Otherwise we might just assume the lot of you are trolls. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We're trolls eh? Surge usually hangs out in the artwork forum and he posts a lot of good drawings there.... the only reason surge brought this specific one out was probably because he recognised the model, since he is also a member of the polycount forums along with myself, where many real modellers hang out. I don't post much, and although I often do bring up this topic of respecting authors and such (heck,I made a thread ages ago about simple rules to keep when making conversions because I got tired of these arguments, but that did no good) but I am also an original modeller myself. Look up piggorge and chickenlerk if you need some sort of substantial "proof of the pudding". Tzarcon I can't speak for... I dunno his posting habits and he likes to swear <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
why i have to ask for permission for playing around with others models? I NEVER HAVE PLANED TO RELEASE THAT,READ THE TOPIC TITLE NEXT TIME.... its just one of my pathetic attempts in working with milkshape... i liked the result...it looked nice.. thats why ive posted the pic... and the best..its not even working (the only thing that works is that funny blinking display)... because im to stupid for this .. im asking for help..and getting flamed for stuff i dont even know ive wanted to do...
next time i ask for permission when im bored and want to play around with milkshape..
aww..forget it..i promise you wont see any of my models again..because i cant model myself..
so its up to the modelling elite that "you" are ...
And if anyone brings up that old MP sketch about assume making an **** out of u and me, I shall hunt thee down and smite thee with great fury and terrible vengeance!
Comments
Well than you'll be happy to know I use NO converted models.... any custom model I do use has either been an original made by another author or myself in the case of a few. So don't worry, I don't think I'll ever go against my word of being against conversion models <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why I even still visit these forums is beyond my own comprehension.... more credit is given to hackjobs and conversions than they are to original models, which seem to become more few and far between....
your entitled to your opinion, but don't blatently flame somone because they left A name (not even yours) out of the post...nice little comments like "did you do that yourself?" would have been better than "you !$^@& retard hacker, go back in your Q!@#$^&!@#$ hole we hate you!"
Uhm.... is that a trick question?
Uhm.... is that a trick question? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
depends.... do you have a stick? (your suposed to take it as "stop bickering....we are suposed to be on the same side")
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And do you go hounding anyone else that posts MWIP stuff of their conversions if they don't immediately say who did the originals?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you really think that he's going to spend all his time patrolling this hellhole policing everyone like a **** ing gestapo? If you see someone doing something bad, you get them to stop, end of story, he barely insulted her in the slightest bit
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's a trivia question, see if you can answer it without looking at the original thread: who made the WH40K player models I originally did a crap job of converting?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
how the **** ing hell does that apply to the conversation?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't jump down her throat just because people make assumptions. Hell, English <b>isn't her native language</b>. She's <b>Japanese</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Being japaneese has no **** ing thing to do with it. I speak okay french, but if I was to go on some french forum, convert a model and say "Look what I've been working on!" (or "Regardez quoi J'ai ete travaille sur!") It's still bad, "He's english" is no freaking excuse for behavior
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe she was mistaken in expecting people to remember someone who's been giving consistently to this community since the damned game came out! Oh, gee, burn her on a stake because you've got pretty much **** for memory.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No-one said anything about her not giving lots to the community. In a case like this, however, sometimes people need reminding to give credit where credit is due. I truely believe she did not mean to make it seem as if she had made it herself, but she did make it seem like that, and people were praising her for things she did not do. Surge's memory has nothing to do with it, we are officially past the point where you are making **** up
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah, she was the one who had that avatar all you kids were drooling over because, ou, wow, it was actually her and she's pretty much sexier than your moms, and she knows more about guns than you, plays games, has a better knowledge of history, works for Tokyo Marui, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? Remember that?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That has no **** ing appliance to this conversation. This is about sheela not giving credit, not about how hot she may or may not be, I dont know, I havent seen her old avatar. Even if she is the alpha and omega of attractiveness, that doesnt mean shes automatically right. In fact, it sounds more to me like you are a fanboy who is trying to protect her no matter what she does, and no matter what others say to her, especially since we barely said much to her, just a "Please give credit where credit is due, you made it seem as if you did it yourself". Along comes wolf: "OMG you jackass she's japanese, japanese>you, you suck!"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Who the hell else finds as many rare reference pics as Sheena does, no matter who asks for them, or for what reason? She's done nothing but be helpful. And, hell, she's even investing in some of the stuff I stopped doing, so you, you ****, could still have your bloody custom crap to pwn with!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like he said, he doesnt even use it, neither do I, because I personally like using stuff that applies to the game setting. No-one ever said anything about her not being helpful all the time, sheela has done good things for this community, obviously. But, just because shes done good stuff before doesnt mean shes automatically right when she doesnt something bad, even if a mod said or did something bad, the forum regulars still correct him, tell him not to do it again, they dont just ignore it because hes a mod, and in the end as long as they dont do it again, everything is back to the way it was before
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What the hell's your damned problem, jumping on her because, ou, wow, she uses ReadMe files <b><u>if and when she actually releases something</b></u>?! Don't blame <b>her</b> for your own laziness or foul mood, kid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem? You **** head. Releasing it has nothing to do with it at all, shes showing off work and making it seem as though she did it herself. Jumping on her? You call THIS jumping?:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Surge: Give some credit next time, please.
Surge: Because of comments like this. They're all thinking you did the work. And who looks at Readme's that closely? It's your job to find the creator and ask him, not for the creator to find you and reprimand you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jumping eh? You **** head. Now he's blaming her for his own laziness and foul mood? Laziness to do what? He hardly sounded foul, maybe you need to improve your social skills a little more before trying to communicate with someone smarter than you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gimme-gimme-gimme! You don't even have enough respect to remember who's been giving you stuff on a silver platter for months!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gimme gimme gimme? I'd like to see you name 1 **** ing time when surge even used a custom model. What shes given in the past has nothing to do with what she did now. Btw, Silver platter my ****, ****
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Suck it up. You probably won't be getting anything released out of her anymore now either. All she was trying to do is help! Good move, jerk-off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, Surge told her to give credit for anothers work, so shes going to run off to her room crying and stop making models? I'm sure you'll be right there behind her, helping her out through the hard times, you **** ing fanboy. We barely said anything bad about her anyway, just that she needs to give credit to the original authors, It must of made her really sad, eh? Fanboy Wolf comes along and tries to get laid, how heroic of you.
(NOTE: I removed the size tags from the next quote)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>SHE WASN'T DONE WITH THE DAMNED THING! NOT READY TO RELEASE! UNTIL SHE'S DONE, SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO REMIND YOU ALL OF WHO SHE IS IF YOU CAN'T BLOODY REMEMBER FOR YOUR OWN DAMNED SELVES!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sure making your text about 5x larger will make surge think about it alot more, **** head. It doesnt matter if she was ready to release, she still showed off work she didnt do and make it seem as if she did it herself through words that were not carefully chosen.
Who she is has nothing to do with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And don't bother getting all defensive about why you're perfectly justified in riding her to make yourself feel somehow important, punk. You aren't. Drop it and get a clue.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hes quite justified, riding I would say hardly, and I dont think surge needs to feel any more important, he's already a respected community member, and obviously now, you are not.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's right. Pwned.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Guess who just made himself look like a peadophile
Note to sheela: Just remember to give proper credit next time then, k.
and why the hell should she ask for permission to use a random model to to play around with? i mean... had she come as far as to release it, of course she should ask for the permission (of wich i have no doubt she would have done) , but since she dident release it but just showed of what she had come up with this far.
and yes i am one of those in favor of custom models, be it hackjobs or originals. and Yes i also like the idea she came up with.
Thats it, and thats that!
EDIT: refrained from flames
Surge: So sheena didn't give credit on a WiP post. Boo-f*cking-hoo. I don't doubt she would have given full credit in her readme. People don't read it? Well that's tough t*tty-biscuits to them.
The fact of the matter is that I don't see the original creator jumping into this thread on a self-righteous mission to belittle someone. If he/she doesn't want the model to be used, let he/she come here and say so. You have no right to come here and cry 'wolf!' (no pun intended).
So how about you take your attitude, shove it up your *rse and f*ck off back under whichever rock you crawled out from.
PS. Nor do we represent Tzarcon's spelling skills <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The original model for one thing was made for Q3.... why Harlequin would be on NS's degenerating modelling forum would be beyond my comprehension. It's the converter's job to contact original authors of models... not the modeller's job to scour the internet for any of their work which has been stolen without their permission. The more people pull this stupid idea out that the original authors should be more careful or something with their work, the more I want to e-mail those original authors and ask them what THEY think of their work being taken without permission, or if it is unsure if permission was asked, than if they were asked at all. I know if someone started making a "Piggorge" thread and posted screenshots of my model without any mension of my name I wouldn't stand for it.
And just as an extra note... because this seems odd to me. Sheena said that credits would be given in the readme if it were released... yet Sheena also said that she found the model on someone else's computer, and the way it sounded was that no sign of the original author was even available. Correct this if I'm wrong sheena, but it sounds like a contradiction to me...
By the way sheena the model looks pretty good, hope you can fix it for us. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, because the creator ahs nothing better to do than to roam the Internet everyday to see what poorly done hacks and conversions are being done to their model.
It's the model makers responsibility to contact the authour in advance to get their permission to do a conversion or hack job. That and it's generally a common curtesy to ask before doing.
The fact of the matter is that I don't see the original creator jumping into this thread on a self-righteous mission to belittle someone. If he/she doesn't want the model to be used, let he/she come here and say so. You have no right to come here and cry 'wolf!' (no pun intended).
So how about you take your attitude, shove it up your *rse and f*ck off back under whichever rock you crawled out from. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didnt think it was possible, but Wolf's reign of stupidity may in competition with a possibly stupider ***hole.
You always have to ask permission, in fact it was actually recently made against the law to find something else on the internet made by a 3rd party and use it however you please without consent from that 3rd party or person. If the makers of those models dont want them used in Natural Selection, then they arnt to be, so if you dont ask permission you dont know if they mind or not, I bet those modelers would be pretty **** if they were going through these forums and found someone using their models without their permission. Its just not what you do, unless you're a jack*** like yourself
"You may redistribute this weapon by any electronic means as long as (a) it is unmodified (b) you do not profit financialy from it's distribution. If you base any furter weapons on this base, please give the relevant credits - thankyou."
That's from Harlequin's readme
"Dont alter the files included in this zip-file, the pk3-file must
always be provided with this readme-file.
If you want to use this weapon-replacement for your own purposes please
e-mail me or Redlemons first."
That's from the redlemon and Balou readme
I think they don't want you making conversions of their work <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
"You may redistribute this weapon by any electronic means as long as (a) it is unmodified (b) you do not profit financialy from it's distribution. If you base any furter weapons on this base, please give the relevant credits - thankyou."
That's from Harlequin's readme
"Dont alter the files included in this zip-file, the pk3-file must
always be provided with this readme-file.
If you want to use this weapon-replacement for your own purposes please
e-mail me or Redlemons first."
That's from the redlemon and Balou readme
I think they don't want you making conversions of their work <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care! I still want it!
we've been bickering this whole time, we've said some hurtful words, we've gotten our points across... can we leave it alone now? i'm sure we've all learned a lesson, can we drop it and move on?
last i checked sheena was having PROBLEMS and asked for help... not a flame war
another thing we might wanna think about is what is all this bickering causing, tension, opinion changes, shifts in favor?
i still respect Wolf, only because he write elegantly...
i don't respect Tzarcon because he misses the relevance...
i alsmot respect Roadmaster for flaming me when i was asking for it......
but beyond all the elegance, all the relevance, and all the flames, we need to shut up, help eachother, and be the freinds we are suposed to be.... we are here because we are a <b>FRIENDS</b>... lest mature up, and act like it.
<b>undefined</b> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'> </span>
You always have to ask permission, in fact it was actually recently made against the law to find something else on the internet made by a 3rd party and use it however you please without consent from that 3rd party or person. If the makers of those models dont want them used in Natural Selection, then they arnt to be, so if you dont ask permission you dont know if they mind or not, I bet those modelers would be pretty **** if they were going through these forums and found someone using their models without their permission. Its just not what you do, unless you're a jack*** like yourself <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will refrain from remarking on your grammar whilst you call me stupid.
However, I do believe that you have entirely missed the point. We did not deny that sheena would have to ask permission to release. She doesn't, however, need to give credit on a work in progress thread where it might not go anywhere.
Oh, and to set you straight, if I do model, I model from scratch. So you can take that generalised assumption and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
I will however be expecting you guys, who I hearby dub "The Righteous Trio" to jump onto any WIP thread that doesn't give credit where due and cry foul. Otherwise we might just assume the lot of you are trolls.
i don't respect Tzarcon because he misses the relevance...
i alsmot respect Roadmaster for flaming me when i was asking for it...... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
elegantly? You call insulting Surge, swearing a little, making lots of **** up, and starting a flame war <b>elegant?</b> I dont care how elegant you think he is, what he isnt is someone that deserves your respect, you know that.
And what relevance? The relevance here is that Sheena didnt something she shouldnt of, and wolf came along acting heroic and started a flame war, while me and road stepped in to defend Surge, who is more respected than wolf could ever be.
I dont remember roadmaster ever flaming you, btw.
i don't respect Tzarcon because he misses the relevance...
i alsmot respect Roadmaster for flaming me when i was asking for it...... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
elegantly? You call insulting Surge, swearing a little, making lots of **** up, and starting a flame war <b>elegant?</b> I dont care how elegant you think he is, what he isnt is someone that deserves your respect, you know that.
And what relevance? The relevance here is that Sheena didnt something she shouldnt of, and wolf came along acting heroic and started a flame war, while me and road stepped in to defend Surge, who is more respected than wolf could ever be.
I dont remember roadmaster ever flaming you, btw. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and it's never what he writes, it's HOW... something you AND me need to work on....
-=[EDIT]=-
and NOBODY can fight with me on that one!
Oh, and to set you straight, if I do model, I model from scratch. So you can take that generalised assumption and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
I will however be expecting you guys, who I hearby dub "The Righteous Trio" to jump onto any WIP thread that doesn't give credit where due and cry foul. Otherwise we might just assume the lot of you are trolls. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, Id like to say we've all really been getting carried away with the swear words, lets calm that down...
sheena still needs permission to post the work here, because she implied she did it herself and showed something, and made everyone think she was really that good.
I never did say you model at all, and I would hope you do anyway
I would rather not patrol these forums like a gestapo, Im only even here because I was defending surge
We're trolls eh? Surge usually hangs out in the artwork forum and he posts a lot of good drawings there.... the only reason surge brought this specific one out was probably because he recognised the model, since he is also a member of the polycount forums along with myself, where many real modellers hang out. I don't post much, and although I often do bring up this topic of respecting authors and such (heck,I made a thread ages ago about simple rules to keep when making conversions because I got tired of these arguments, but that did no good) but I am also an original modeller myself. Look up piggorge and chickenlerk if you need some sort of substantial "proof of the pudding". Tzarcon I can't speak for... I dunno his posting habits and he likes to swear <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Unless he asked the other modeller directly, but I assume that he hasn't, as no mention has been made of it.
I NEVER HAVE PLANED TO RELEASE THAT,READ THE TOPIC TITLE NEXT TIME....
its just one of my pathetic attempts in working with milkshape... i liked the result...it looked nice..
thats why ive posted the pic... and the best..its not even working (the only thing that works is that funny blinking display)... because im to stupid for this ..
im asking for help..and getting flamed for stuff i dont even know ive wanted to do...
next time i ask for permission when im bored and want to play around with milkshape..
aww..forget it..i promise you wont see any of my models again..because i cant model myself..
so its up to the modelling elite that "you" are ...
RAH...
And stuff.