if you meet a decent fade 1 on 1 your ****, let me make this simple, 200hp and 150 armour vs 100hp and 50 armour... only n00b fades would fall for this, its the way to kill a fade yes, but a good fade vs good marine fade will always win.
with anything less than lvl 2 armour youre acid meat and with anything less than lvl 2 weapons you lack the necessary fire power to fight back. Once you get these upgrades you stand a chance though only in open conflict
<!--QuoteBegin--Ashkajioni+Mar 17 2003, 01:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ashkajioni @ Mar 17 2003, 01:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I made a screen shot of the half-life viewer with the fades 'hitboxs' but everything seems to be covered.. even for skulk.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes yes....this has been said several times. Everything looks great in HLMV, but it is in the game where the weird stuff arises <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Personally I find the best weapon to kill fades is the LMG/LA combo, simply because then you have a chance to keep up with them.
With a LMG/LA marine I have nailed many a fade, they key is straifing the acid rockets, rapid left/right movement makes you a monster to hit. If they are clever and start shooting at your feet to get you with splash run forwards so the rockets hit behind you. Problem then becomes his claws, when you see him charge you charge him as well, just before he swipes (if you can judge that distance this becomes easier) dodge left or right (hop if you must you horrible h0pp0rs) nd chances are he'll miss.
Using that tactic I downed a cara fade with out upgrades, and he was clanned as well : D (needless to say the hacking accusations were rolling in at that point).
I don't think anyone should run off ever as a marine, but if you do find yourself 1v1 with a fade this is a good way to go.
To further back up my original statement, this would be impossible to do with LMG/HA or HMG/LA as you are too slow and the oh-so-scary fade would just run away.
<!--QuoteBegin--see-you-in-disney-land+Mar 17 2003, 03:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (see-you-in-disney-land @ Mar 17 2003, 03:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To further back up my original statement, this would be impossible to do with LMG/HA or HMG/LA as you are too slow and the oh-so-scary fade would just run away. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> HA doesn't slow you down. If you take HA, you can run as fast as regular marine, but when you pick up a HMG, then you will move slowly <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Paq+Mar 17 2003, 06:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Paq @ Mar 17 2003, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> HA doesn't slow you down. If you take HA, you can run as fast as regular marine, but when you pick up a HMG, then you will move slowly <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bzzzt. Wrong. A suit of HA slows you down less then a HMG does yes, but it still slows you down.
fades that try and hit you DEAD ON with their rockets are your best friends.......if I see a fade trying to direct hit me I just charge him cuz hes good as dead (acid rockets are easy as hell to dodge)
after a good bit of fighting fades i have changed my mind, u can kill the fade with 0 upgrades, i killed 2 fades in one pub server with a LMG, using the "jump at 'em" tactic you can aviod most fade dammage , as long as they dont use acid rocket its fully possible imo
How can an unupgraded marine ever thought about taking a Fade?? That's obviously suicide (unless the Fade is really low in hp). .You better hope that never happens
The point is not exactly to kill the fade. Just to wound it as badly as possible before dying yourself. And sometimes fades make mistake and try to kill too many marines in a time and are almost dead when trying to run away, thats when you should empty all your lmg ammo into that running back and change to pistol and hope that every blessed bullet will hit - I once noticed I killed fade with pistol (its 200 points of damage per clip) with a last bullet in magazine. I died five seconds later by OC, but I still chased that black devil and killed him. So when someones shouting in channel to chase the fades, it means to kill em and not to keep yourself from dying. Its a bad thing if theres two fades in base, but not hopeless. Just have to go and keep them in base and not run away. Also you shouldnt wait them return but to go shoot DC's and look around if its hiding in some corner and healing himself.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mazkaline+Mar 18 2003, 07:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mazkaline @ Mar 18 2003, 07:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also you shouldnt wait them return but to go shoot DC's and look around if its hiding in some corner and healing himself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Problem is, when have you seen a healing base WITHOUT at least three or four OC's as well. Not to mention the hurting fade that you followed back to that base spamming acid rockets at you!
<!--QuoteBegin--ATI+Mar 14 2003, 01:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ATI @ Mar 14 2003, 01:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I always figured center mass was the best way to go for pretty much everything when you fire a weapon. However, I found the problem being that most people are afraid of fades and don't try and persue them actively. Even with low lvl upgrades it behooves you to jump to avoid the fade missles and lay constant firing on the fade. When the fade starts running, that means its hurt, get someone to help and keep firing, even if yuo have to resort to your pistol/knife. Also, pretty much anytime when its 2 on 1 fade the odds of killing the fade are greatly increased without loss of life. The most important thing when going for the fade and only having the lmg is to get someone from team to help. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Watch out for fakers, though. I like to bait Marines into thinking I'm injured, only to wait around the corner and claw them to death.
<!--QuoteBegin--BarxBaron+Mar 17 2003, 05:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BarxBaron @ Mar 17 2003, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> fades that try and hit you DEAD ON with their rockets are your best friends.......if I see a fade trying to direct hit me I just charge him cuz hes good as dead (acid rockets are easy as hell to dodge) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Evidently, the fades you were fighting didn't know how to swipe. Sure, acid rockets are easy to dodge, but swipe takes very little energy.
Most people dont realize that if a fade gets regen or redemption it only takes 29 UNUPGRADED lmg bullets to kill it. If the fade has lvl 3 carapace it takes 79 UNUPGRADED lmg bullets. BTW hmg is only +10 more damage per bullet, doesnt really help as much as you think, the only reason i usually get it is for the clip size. Upgrades are so much more effective. Also ive played 3 games where we came bak from a 3 hive situation and won simply because all the aliens went onos and skipped the fade stage. We had 3 heavys with shotguns in front and everytime an onos ran through he was shottied to death. It only takes 5 direct shots from a shotgun to kill an onos.
Yeah, I just chase 'em with my knife screaming, "Give us a kiss." This normally works well - my Opponents leave the game quite a lot <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--ME551AH+Mar 20 2003, 01:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ME551AH @ Mar 20 2003, 01:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah, I just chase 'em with my knife screaming, "Give us a kiss." This normally works well - my Opponents leave the game quite a lot <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally i'd just swipe you and have done with it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
5 unupgraded shotgun shells to kill an onos? Where are you getting these numbers from? Assuming the onos has at least a defense upgrade, the onos will probably choose carapace/regen. If it chooses carapace, thats another, what, 150 armor? AND the 66% less damage? Sure, you might get 5 shots in, maybe 10 shots in, but all you're doing is tickling the udders of the onos. If it chooses regen, that *might* help you kill it. Not that even if you managed to nail all 10 shots of your shotgun into the onos PERFECTLY, by the time it takes you to actually empty your clip of shells, AND reload, the onos has full health again, *maybe* 20 less than he did before. Anyone that knows what a horn is will gore you before you let off 3 blasts, since you're up close anyway. Jetpack flying around you? No problem, paralyze him and watch him crater on the floor. Didn't die from the crater? Trample over him.
At close/point blank range (the range an Onos needs to be to kill a marine), the shotgun can do 160 damage per round.
160 x 5 = 800.
A HA marine can take 5 Gores from an Onos.
He said they had 3 HA marines with shotguns slaying Onos. He did not say if they had upgrades, or if they had turrets. If they had upgrades, the HA can take 6 hits from Gore. If they had upgraded weapons, the shotgun does up to 208 damage per round.
208 x 5 = 1040.
Thats not counting any turrets or anyone pistoling.
I switch to pistol unload it as fast and as accurately as possible at the fade and when that runs out quickly switch to the LMG and unload that. If the fade is using regeneration and you land enough shots the fade will die even with lvl1 weapons. If you merely hurt the fade badly then you may aswell bite the bullet and go kamikaze it with your knife... you never know! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--James H4xwell+Mar 18 2003, 09:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (James H4xwell @ Mar 18 2003, 09:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Most people dont realize that if a fade gets regen or redemption it only takes 29 UNUPGRADED lmg bullets to kill it. If the fade has lvl 3 carapace it takes 79 UNUPGRADED lmg bullets. BTW hmg is only +10 more damage per bullet, doesnt really help as much as you think, the only reason i usually get it is for the clip size. Upgrades are so much more effective. Also ive played 3 games where we came bak from a 3 hive situation and won simply because all the aliens went onos and skipped the fade stage. We had 3 heavys with shotguns in front and everytime an onos ran through he was shottied to death. It only takes 5 direct shots from a shotgun to kill an onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Youre forgetting to mention hmgs and pistols are better armour piercing weapons.
<!--QuoteBegin--ZiGGY^+Mar 21 2003, 10:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Mar 21 2003, 10:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--James H4xwell+Mar 18 2003, 09:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (James H4xwell @ Mar 18 2003, 09:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Most people dont realize that if a fade gets regen or redemption it only takes 29 UNUPGRADED lmg bullets to kill it. If the fade has lvl 3 carapace it takes 79 UNUPGRADED lmg bullets. BTW hmg is only +10 more damage per bullet, doesnt really help as much as you think, the only reason i usually get it is for the clip size. Upgrades are so much more effective. Also ive played 3 games where we came bak from a 3 hive situation and won simply because all the aliens went onos and skipped the fade stage. We had 3 heavys with shotguns in front and everytime an onos ran through he was shottied to death. It only takes 5 direct shots from a shotgun to kill an onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Youre forgetting to mention hmgs and pistols are better armour piercing weapons. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ARMOR PIERCING?WTH!!!!!!!!
P.S.Doesnt level 3 lmg do 13 damage?I dont see how 7 more damage with a level 0 hmg than a level 3 lmg is insignficant.
<!--QuoteBegin--Question+Mar 25 2003, 09:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Question @ Mar 25 2003, 09:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> P.S.Doesnt level 3 lmg do 13 damage?I dont see how 7 more damage with a level 0 hmg than a level 3 lmg is insignficant. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> HMG does 18 damage, not 20, a common misconception. It was changed in 1.01. Its not so much the damage as a larger cone of fire and 3 times as big a clip which kills fades.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sifo25+Mar 21 2003, 03:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sifo25 @ Mar 21 2003, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> At close/point blank range (the range an Onos needs to be to kill a marine), the shotgun can do 160 damage per round.
160 x 5 = 800.
A HA marine can take 5 Gores from an Onos.
He said they had 3 HA marines with shotguns slaying Onos. He did not say if they had upgrades, or if they had turrets. If they had upgrades, the HA can take 6 hits from Gore. If they had upgraded weapons, the shotgun does up to 208 damage per round.
208 x 5 = 1040.
Thats not counting any turrets or anyone pistoling.
That equals a dead Onos in 6 seconds, my friend.
Sifo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the shotgun does do 160 per shot (assuming you have perfect accuracy), but one pellet does 16 damage. It shoots 10 pellets. Reduce each pellet damage by 66%, and it does about 6-7 damage. Multiply that times 10. 60-70 damage. Per shot. Multiply that times 10 again. 600-700 damage. Per clip. If you have HA/shottie, you prolly have upgrades, right? Lets say you have level 2, so upgrade that damage by 30% Onos has 500 health and 300 armor (assuming it has carapace). Onos *may* be dead. But you have no hope of scoring all 100 pellets into the onos, due to hitbox errors, battle confusion, other aliens, etc. Even IF you're up close, doing that kind of damage, the goring of the onos (120 damage) will kill a lvl 3 armor HA in around 4-5 gores. Oh wait! I forgot about primal scream! What onos doesnt use primal scream before going into battle? Oh, looks like you, the shotgun/HA, can't do too much anymore, since the onos could gore you to death in about 2 seconds, runs so much faster, gets more energy faster, and i think it can take more damage too?
Wheres your shotgun now? On the floor next to your dead body.
Tbh <b>alot</b> of people Onos very badly. They rarely play the class and often believe it to be invincible, or at least play it as such. I can easily believe an Onos going down it that situation.
Another factor neglected is welding, it heals armour at a horrific rate, and you think comms <i>let</i> thier HA investments die. I think in this case a med spam would be happening.
Comments
but everything seems to be covered.. even for skulk..
but anyways, here it is.
but everything seems to be covered.. even for skulk.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes yes....this has been said several times. Everything looks great in HLMV, but it is in the game where the weird stuff arises <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
With a LMG/LA marine I have nailed many a fade, they key is straifing the acid rockets, rapid left/right movement makes you a monster to hit. If they are clever and start shooting at your feet to get you with splash run forwards so the rockets hit behind you. Problem then becomes his claws, when you see him charge you charge him as well, just before he swipes (if you can judge that distance this becomes easier) dodge left or right (hop if you must you horrible h0pp0rs) nd chances are he'll miss.
Using that tactic I downed a cara fade with out upgrades, and he was clanned as well : D (needless to say the hacking accusations were rolling in at that point).
I don't think anyone should run off ever as a marine, but if you do find yourself 1v1 with a fade this is a good way to go.
To further back up my original statement, this would be impossible to do with LMG/HA or HMG/LA as you are too slow and the oh-so-scary fade would just run away.
HA doesn't slow you down. If you take HA, you can run as fast as regular marine, but when you pick up a HMG, then you will move slowly <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Bzzzt. Wrong. A suit of HA slows you down less then a HMG does yes, but it still slows you down.
And sometimes fades make mistake and try to kill too many marines in a time and are almost dead when trying to run away, thats when you should empty all your lmg ammo into that running back and change to pistol and hope that every blessed bullet will hit - I once noticed I killed fade with pistol (its 200 points of damage per clip) with a last bullet in magazine. I died five seconds later by OC, but I still chased that black devil and killed him.
So when someones shouting in channel to chase the fades, it means to kill em and not to keep yourself from dying. Its a bad thing if theres two fades in base, but not hopeless. Just have to go and keep them in base and not run away. Also you shouldnt wait them return but to go shoot DC's and look around if its hiding in some corner and healing himself.
Problem is, when have you seen a healing base WITHOUT at least three or four OC's as well. Not to mention the hurting fade that you followed back to that base spamming acid rockets at you!
Watch out for fakers, though. I like to bait Marines into thinking I'm injured, only to wait around the corner and claw them to death.
Evidently, the fades you were fighting didn't know how to swipe. Sure, acid rockets are easy to dodge, but swipe takes very little energy.
Personally i'd just swipe you and have done with it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Was that good for you ?"
160 x 5 = 800.
A HA marine can take 5 Gores from an Onos.
He said they had 3 HA marines with shotguns slaying Onos. He did not say if they had upgrades, or if they had turrets. If they had upgrades, the HA can take 6 hits from Gore. If they had upgraded weapons, the shotgun does up to 208 damage per round.
208 x 5 = 1040.
Thats not counting any turrets or anyone pistoling.
That equals a dead Onos in 6 seconds, my friend.
Sifo
I switch to pistol unload it as fast and as accurately as possible at the fade and when that runs out quickly switch to the LMG and unload that. If the fade is using regeneration and you land enough shots the fade will die even with lvl1 weapons. If you merely hurt the fade badly then you may aswell bite the bullet and go kamikaze it with your knife... you never know! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If the fade has carapace.... your screwed!
Youre forgetting to mention hmgs and pistols are better armour piercing weapons.
Youre forgetting to mention hmgs and pistols are better armour piercing weapons. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ARMOR PIERCING?WTH!!!!!!!!
P.S.Doesnt level 3 lmg do 13 damage?I dont see how 7 more damage with a level 0 hmg than a level 3 lmg is insignficant.
HMG does 18 damage, not 20, a common misconception. It was changed in 1.01. Its not so much the damage as a larger cone of fire and 3 times as big a clip which kills fades.
160 x 5 = 800.
A HA marine can take 5 Gores from an Onos.
He said they had 3 HA marines with shotguns slaying Onos. He did not say if they had upgrades, or if they had turrets. If they had upgrades, the HA can take 6 hits from Gore. If they had upgraded weapons, the shotgun does up to 208 damage per round.
208 x 5 = 1040.
Thats not counting any turrets or anyone pistoling.
That equals a dead Onos in 6 seconds, my friend.
Sifo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the shotgun does do 160 per shot (assuming you have perfect accuracy), but one pellet does 16 damage. It shoots 10 pellets. Reduce each pellet damage by 66%, and it does about 6-7 damage. Multiply that times 10. 60-70 damage. Per shot. Multiply that times 10 again. 600-700 damage. Per clip. If you have HA/shottie, you prolly have upgrades, right? Lets say you have level 2, so upgrade that damage by 30% Onos has 500 health and 300 armor (assuming it has carapace). Onos *may* be dead. But you have no hope of scoring all 100 pellets into the onos, due to hitbox errors, battle confusion, other aliens, etc. Even IF you're up close, doing that kind of damage, the goring of the onos (120 damage) will kill a lvl 3 armor HA in around 4-5 gores. Oh wait! I forgot about primal scream! What onos doesnt use primal scream before going into battle? Oh, looks like you, the shotgun/HA, can't do too much anymore, since the onos could gore you to death in about 2 seconds, runs so much faster, gets more energy faster, and i think it can take more damage too?
Wheres your shotgun now? On the floor next to your dead body.
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> > <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
Another factor neglected is welding, it heals armour at a horrific rate, and you think comms <i>let</i> thier HA investments die. I think in this case a med spam would be happening.