Commanding N00bs! Post Your Tips Here!

slaps · March 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">* Very Important Post * for pub games!</div> I'm yet to play a Lan game of NS...Just dont get the time! So like many of you I'm stuck on the Public Server "Wheel of Fortune" or maybe it should be "Wheel of Noob!" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Anyway I'm not bagging n00bs 'cos I and you was one not long ago <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> They will always be there! But one thing I've noticed commanding is that if you have a team of experienced "vet" players your com experience is just that much easier! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> I was just playing as com last weekend with some very good players and needless to say we won a fair few maps. Basically it was rather effortless! All I had to do was tell them where the hive was and then provide the gear. One guy even volunteered himself as a dedicated base and phase gate defender! I was in shock that I had it so good!

Usually its the other way round! n00b nite usually includes marines that simply run off and leave the base undefended, dont follow waypoints, get massacred by 2 skulks! place mines up high on the walls <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'> , constantly ask for hmgs about 10 secs into a new map!, always leave the base by themselves never in a group, stand humping the armory whilst you are screaming that the phase gate is going down! and generally abuse the crap out of you because you didnt give them ammo whilst you were trying to hit the beacon because 1 skulk has wandered into your un-defended base and decided to eat it!

Anyway the point of my rant is that as a comm you are not just battling the aliens but its also a psychological battle against your team! And sometimes it can be a breeze and other/most times it like trying to push sh|t up hill! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>
So are there any tips you guys have that make it easier for comms to command a team that includes noobs?

Here's a few things I've learnt - :

* You'll find out how good your team is in about the first minute of the map during the first skulk rush! Change your build strategy on the fly to suit your players! Comming is "dynamic not static". If my team is good I dont spend much res on upgrading but rather put all of it into res node capping and phase gate+tf hive lockdowns. If it's bad I try and allocate a reasonable amount res into upgrading ...motion + level1 arms lab etc.

* If you have 1 or 2 good players. Allocate them all the risky missions like scouting hives etc! When the time comes to hand out the HMG's etc make sure these guys get them! Dont waste a jetpak+HMG on someone whose going to get wasted 10 seconds after leaving the base.

* BE CUNNING! This obviously applies to all types of commanding in NS not just n00b pub games. But no doubt if you know your maps, what vents to weld shut and know how to get the most out of your Turret factory and siege range you'll give your team the best chance they've got.

* Improve your waypointing skills! To a newbie player waypoints really help! Personally ever since my waypointing skills improved I've noticed a big leap in my commander victories. "Guard" and "Weld" waypoints are particularly usefull.

* Tell your team that one player MUST stay at the base at all times! The improvement in alien skulk player skills is improving dramatically. Therefore and bunch of sentries and some mines wont stop a ruthless and relentless skulk rush nowerdays <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

* Use binds! I dont really like using the voice_comm 'cos most ppl sound all garbled static. So i have a few keys bound to say stuff like -:

bind "a" "say_team WELD VENTS SHUT!"
bind "b" "say_team SOMEONE PLZ COME BACK TO BASE!!"
bind "d" "say_team NEED SOME TRIP-MINES PLZ I WONT WASTE THEM OK <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>"
bind "e" "say_team MINE COM CHAIR AND IP'S!"
bind "g" "say_team 1 PERSON GUARD THE BASE!"
bind "p" "say_team STOP HUMPING THE ARMORY ALL MARINES GO PHASE NOW!!"
bind "r" "say_team PLACE MINES ON THE FLOOR NEAR ALL ENTRY POINTS! SPACE THEM OUT!"
bind "s" "say_team WELD THE HEAVY ARMOR GUYS!"
bind "w" "say_team EVERYONE STICK TOGETHER! DONT GO OUT ALONE!

I know some of this stuff is obvious but I'm still shocked how about how ppl lay mines and don't know that the HA needs constant welding or that scouting out by yourself is inviting a quick trip to the dead room. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Anyway thats it. Post all your uselfull n00b commanding tips here!
Cheers <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

eggmac · March 2003

some very useful commanding tips were give by Zenn. If I may quote:
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Well, I play commander a lot, I'm even the offical commander for my clan. I like the job, and I do well at it. If you want to be a good commander, learn a couple simple rules.

1: Try to give waypoints when you can unless you are playing with regulars who can lead the noobs. (I'm guilty of not doing this myself, since I know every spot on every map by location name). Shout location names first, if they stand around...give'em a waypoint.

2: Learn to jump around all over the map like a mad-man, and no I don't mean bhopping I can drop 5 health packs in base, a RT on the otherside of the map, jump back, upgrade weapons, then jump back and give health to someone else who needs it in about 4 seconds (res permitting). Learn to multitask many things at once, keep your eye on the mini-map so you know where everyone is.

3: Bind keys to equipment menu, health, and ammo at the LEAST. When your attackers need health and ammo spam, they need a LOT of it.

4: Again, learn the maps. Know stuff by location name, know where the res towers are, know where the seige locations are, and where the aliens like to build choke points. The best strategy is a counter strategy Also learn where the map has bugs, both good and bad ones.

5: When your marines want health, give'em HEALTH! Health packs might seem like a waste of 2 res, but when a marine wants health, and you give it to him, hes MUCH more likely to listen to you, and follow your orders...call it moral. Having high moral is always good for the team. This also falls in line with HMG and JPs and such...if they are carrying 40 res in equipment, its worth 2 more to keep'em alive.

6: (also in line with number 5) Drop health where the you want the marine to go. If you're pushing on a room, drop the health so that they gotta enter the battle field area to get to it...this kinda forces your marines to go where you want them, and to assault harder. For two reasons...#1- They want health, and will RUSH to whatever you drop instinctively, #2- They will fight harder with more health, and fight longer. I do this often, and never had any complaints

7: You don't have to drop a HMG and JP to every noob complainer on the team. If you're trying to set'up something important, like a mini-turret farm, or a seige location or something. Don't give'em equipment. I've won games where half the game, I had a noob in base screaming for HA and a HMG (which he would have lost anyway, I'm sure of it), he never left base, just kept asking for it...I won the game without him. I have more important things to spend 50 res on than him. Don't overdue it though, if you have extra res, spam HMGs at such at base...its another moral booster, and guys with HMGs take more risks, and usually end up with greater rewards.

8: If you are going for a 2 hive lockdown strategy, I suggest you relocate the base, since its easier to hold 2 locations than it is to hold 3. Also, if trying this strategy...don't for the res towers first, try to get the hives first, then start securing res towers. I can lockdown 2 hives with a relocation on 3-4 RTs (depends what map I'm on), skipping the double res nodes and such.

9: Listen to your marines! They sometimes have a better view of the field than you do sometimes, and while you're looking at hive 1...hes in hive 2 saying "3 aliens in here, nothing else". Keep your eyes and ears open, and if a rambo or two gets himself in a good location, exploit that chance to make the aliens SUFFER! (good exploit, not cheat exploit )

I think thats enough for now...I should write a book or something </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

The tips don't really apply to n00bs, but they are still nice <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

slaps · March 2003

ta eggmac! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

ZiGGY · March 2003

its getting harder not to ban people who dont follow orders on the spot

KMO · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (slaps @ Mar 14 2003, 09:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>* Improve your waypointing skills! To a newbie player waypoints really help! Personally ever since my waypointing skills improved I've noticed a big leap in my commander victories. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That sentence says a lot about the 1.0x commander interface <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> Most of the time I try to set waypoints it says "Invalid order", so I've almost gotten out of the habit of even trying.

SpceM0nkey · March 2003

I had a really bad experience with a bunch of marines that thought they knew the game and wanted to do their own thing to t hte determent of the team.

I recycled the inf portals.

"If you die, i beakoned you, as a TEAM! And As A team you move to the hive, if you hump the armory ill recycle it also!"

They started working after that.

I dont suggest you try it, you will probably be kicked, but i play with this group before.

Typhon · March 2003

Well, thats certainly a novel way of forcing marines to go out in groups <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

Ashkajioni · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac @ Mar 14 2003, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 1: Try to give waypoints when you can unless you are playing with regulars who can lead the noobs. (I'm guilty of not doing this myself, since I know every spot on every map by location name). Shout location names first, if they stand around...give'em a waypoint.

5: When your marines want health, give'em HEALTH! Health packs might seem like a waste of 2 res, but when a marine wants health, and you give it to him, hes MUCH more likely to listen to you, and follow your orders...call it moral. Having high moral is always good for the team. This also falls in line with HMG and JPs and such...if they are carrying 40 res in equipment, its worth 2 more to keep'em alive.

7: You don't have to drop a HMG and JP to every noob complainer on the team. If you're trying to set'up something important, like a mini-turret farm, or a seige location or something. Don't give'em equipment. I've won games where half the game, I had a noob in base screaming for HA and a HMG (which he would have lost anyway, I'm sure of it), he never left base, just kept asking for it...I won the game without him. I have more important things to spend 50 res on than him. Don't overdue it though, if you have extra res, spam HMGs at such at base...its another moral booster, and guys with HMGs take more risks, and usually end up with greater rewards.
[/QUOTE]
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Got some questions and comments <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

1- I notice sometimes when i am commander that my voice comm cracks up. Could this be from low fps?
I usualy average about 20-35 FPS.

5- I couldent agree more to this one. I hate it when i get JP HMG, i kill 3 skulks and 2 lurks befor getting near a hive, i ask for med packs and the comm wont respond. I get to the hive with about 44 health and die there. Then i get yelled at for loosing all that equipment. So frustrating <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'> .

7- I sorta dissagree with this to an extent.. I know that waisting res for a lost cause is a bad idea.. but how else will they learn how to use the equipment better?
Also, are there any like.. FY_ maps like in CS. Where you start with equipment/morphs. Just wondering because i would love to get a few hours of straght fully-equiped practice <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

FlatlineUTD · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>* You'll find out how good your team is in about the first minute of the map during the first skulk rush! Change your build strategy on the fly to suit your players! Comming is "dynamic not static". If my team is good I dont spend much res on upgrading but rather put all of it into res node capping and phase gate+tf hive lockdowns. If it's bad I try and allocate a reasonable amount res into upgrading ...motion + level1 arms lab etc.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I like the dynamic not static part. It's called tactical versatility, and it's a game winner every time. Don't just change up your build/tactics/etc during the first few minutes though. You've gotta change things up during the whole game.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>* If you have 1 or 2 good players. Allocate them all the risky missions like scouting hives etc! When the time comes to hand out the HMG's etc make sure these guys get them! Dont waste a jetpak+HMG on someone whose going to get wasted 10 seconds after leaving the base.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I love to send my vets out on "suicide missions" because I know that 9 times out of 10, they'll make it out alive and probably take out a Hive in the process. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> These are the folks that get the equipment they ask for. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>* BE CUNNING! This obviously applies to all types of commanding in NS not just n00b pub games. But no doubt if you know your maps, what vents to weld shut and know how to get the most out of your Turret factory and siege range you'll give your team the best chance they've got.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I don't really think that's cunning, I think that's knowing the map. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> Which you should already know if you're an experienced comm.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>* Improve your waypointing skills! To a newbie player waypoints really help! Personally ever since my waypointing skills improved I've noticed a big leap in my commander victories. "Guard" and "Weld" waypoints are particularly usefull.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Waypoints and constant communication are the way to get your players working as a group. Just don't put Guard waypoints <b>on</b> a player because it obscures their LOS.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>* Tell your team that one player MUST stay at the base at all times! The improvement in alien skulk player skills is improving dramatically. Therefore and bunch of sentries and some mines wont stop a ruthless and relentless skulk rush nowerdays <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I'd rather have a Handyman than a base-****. I won't go into the details of the Handyman here, there are a lot of other posts in here though!

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>* Use binds! I dont really like using the voice_comm 'cos most ppl sound all garbled static. So i have a few keys bound to say stuff like -:</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Great idea! I just don't recommend putting everything in caps because then you either seem like you're a nervous comm, or a total nub.

The only thing I have to add to this, in regards to getting new players to work together, is constant, personal communication. Use their names, and always let them know what they're supposed to be doing. Assign them teams while you're <b>on the way</b> to the comm chair, and tell them that they won't get gear unless they work with those teams. You can always make exceptions for your vets though, or change the teams up later on.

V_MAN · March 2003

Tips for commanding a team of n00bs...hmmm let me think

DON'T

You'll save yourself a headache in the long run. Let's not forget that the average n00b knows more about NS that anyone else, can take on the alien team alone, he thinks HMGs grow on trees and he really does need all 300 rounds for his LMG before going through the PG.

VampMaster · March 2003

Everytime (or almost) I offer to be Handyman at the start at the game, I have no answer, I ask for Welder, no answer, and it usually finish by the Comm almost yelling at me to go attack <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Commander_Kittens · March 2003

I usually win with

build ip
build armory
build obs
build armlab
say "go get me res"
say "defend this hive / turret farm this hive"
take 1-3 res while getting armlab weapon 1 and armor 1
get MT
-------------
| get armlab weapons 2 and armor 2
| build protolab
| research jp
| hand out jp
------------------- try to take a hive and/or get more res here

cause trouble / stall (by this I mean play a good offensive defense and wait while you build res)
get armlab weapns 3 and armor 3
cause trouble / stall some more
drop a few weapons
and hopefully...
deal the crushing blow

sej · March 2003

Give them waypoints and theyll be happy. Make sure the waypoints in a place they cantr get - should keep newbies entertained for hours.

Emc21 · March 2003

I've been playing NS for about a month now. I've gotten extremely good as <i>playing</i> a soldier, but not commanding. I get into the comm chair at the beginning of the game, get the first 3 structures up, then don't know what to do from there.

The ONE thing that I have noticed is that any <b>good</b> commander has a <b>microphone</b>. It really helps.

TomCerul · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ({=Emc2=} @ Mar 19 2003, 03:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The ONE thing that I have noticed is that any <b>good</b> commander has a <b>microphone</b>. It really helps.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I must agree whole heartedly.

I played with [DoGs] once and their commander was Really cool. He was constantly telling us what was going on. If you asked for something, he would verbally respond to Every request. It was freaken awesome.

"HMG incoming to base"
"medpacks incoming to cargo"
"Sorry no money for HMG"

It was just cool. And since he was narateing the fight pretty well, I was happy to hang out and hold one of the hives alone.

DumbMarine · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The ONE thing that I have noticed is that any good commander has a microphone. It really helps. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I don't know, it does help in some situations, but usually I hear about 4 or 5 people going on the mic at the same time. And some comms constantly drone on the mic too, which gets annoying. "Move slightly to the left, now up a little, OMG SKULK! RUN ! SKULKKKKKKKK! Oh my god. What the .... is wrong with you!"

Sometimes the orders are heard wrong from a mic. You shouldn't judge a comm by his mic.

fat_bubba · March 2003

In general I think that a comm using a microphone is good, as allows orders to be carried out more quickly and instant feedback is possible.

However I do agree that a few comms go completely over the top with the use of it:

"No, not that way, the other way. That's right, pick it up. I SAID, GO TO THE HIVE!" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Mazkaline · March 2003

I have noticed that some comms can keep newbies happy just by giving them orders to attack hive. And then few military personnel just build in base and defend it against those few skulks that come there (newbies might kill most of skulks when theyre coming from hive, atleast keep em busy and not planning attacks). This might ofcourse mean that those newbies get all fun... except that those Good And Loyal builders of base get heavy armors/jet packs first, and can take over a hive in team.
Downside in this is that there needs to be several players in server.
This strategy of course is good in every game, kharaas are busy defending and marines can this time build safely.

Commanding N00bs! Post Your Tips Here!

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