Stop Blocking My #@&#$! Shots!
Cpl_Hicks
Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12416Members
Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12416Members
Why is it that when a skulk or three jumps out of the dark most marines start running around in crazy circles? I dont mind it in a large room, but in a tight hallway it makes it hard as hell for me to get a shot. Why? Because my bullets wont hurt marines. When my marines friend is running around in circles trying to keep Mr Skulk from biting his butt off, he's usually trafficking in and out of my and my fellow teammates lane of fire, effectively shielding Mr Skulk from our bullets with his own body.
I would, just once, love to play on a server where the marines split up into fire teams, each member taking one side of the hall, and leapfrog forward from cover to cover. Instead, marines seem intent on rushing willy nilly down the middle of the hall hellbent for glory. Most times I even remind people to try and stay out of each others lane of fire. I havent had one person yet do it though. Im not saying the people I play with are new or deficient, most of the people Ive met on servers are damn good, but still, its a level of teamwork I would love to see and just havent yet. My 2 cents.
-Cpl. Hicks
I would, just once, love to play on a server where the marines split up into fire teams, each member taking one side of the hall, and leapfrog forward from cover to cover. Instead, marines seem intent on rushing willy nilly down the middle of the hall hellbent for glory. Most times I even remind people to try and stay out of each others lane of fire. I havent had one person yet do it though. Im not saying the people I play with are new or deficient, most of the people Ive met on servers are damn good, but still, its a level of teamwork I would love to see and just havent yet. My 2 cents.
-Cpl. Hicks
Comments
2 No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy.
3 Friendly fire ain't.
6 The buddy system is essential to your survival; it gives the enemy somebody else to shoot at. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And the most famous one of all time:
"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong."
Flayra intended the marine team to be a <i>team</i>. Clearly he hasn't read Murphy's laws. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, if more servers turned on friendly fire we would see the dissapearance of this problem VERY quickly.
<IF> on the otherhand its a medium to large sized room or corridor and im playing with people I know and trust then I would move around in the proper supporting fashion like hugging the wall.
-Cpl. Hicks
PS And I would like to see some FF servers, that would be fun. But then youd have to deal with the TKers, and that would suck.
If there was some sort of a consequence or restriction for circle strafing and being jumpy (such as a slowdown after a jump or something) it would force people to rely on combined firepower and teamwork more. My hope is people will begin to realize the importance of moving with a team, having someone watch your back, and using combines firepower to take out aliens. People will have to learn to move with a partner and stay out of each others firing lanes, these will become crucial for success.
What I'm saying is that circle strafing and jumpiness should be made ineffective as an attack or counter-attack so people will stop doing it altogether.
In the current version of NS I admit, I circle strafe and get hoppy when I am attacked. I don't think it belongs in the game, in fact I think it's detrimental to teamwork to rely on these skills but the fact is, <i>they work</i>. When you get ambushed by 2-3 skulks, start hammering that jump button and strafe around because in v1.04 these tactics are effective enough to repel an alien attack.
You may say it's cheap, or you may say it's not fitting to the NS "atmosphere" and I might just agree with all of that. However, I like to win, I play for fun but that means I play to win. Find me a group of people who work in teams, don't get jumpy and circle strafe when they get attacked and I'll gladly do the same. But the reality is on pubs people do what it takes to win. That means for me to win I have to understand the solo style of play and to utilize it, not because I think it's more fun or even better, I need to understand it and utilze it to stay competitive.
Teamplay is only an option, if solo DMing tactics work better then chances are that is what people will do.
That is why I admire the NS team for trying this experiment in Teamplay, I hope they succeed. My theory has always been that the gameplay must <b>force</b> players to teamplay. Given the choice of teamplay or soloing, both tactics being as effective as the other, which one do you think a pubber will choice?
My experience is they tend to choose solo tactics.
I feel these skills <i>are</i> legitimate to NS v1.04 because the gameplay doesn't punish you for using them, in fact, the skills seem to be quite effective. I hope this will change in later versions. Circle strafing and jumpiness are DM skills, fireteam partners and combined firepower are Teamplay Skills, I really hope we are moving toward the latter.
<i><b>But</i></b> I'm a player, which mean I'll do what it takes to win and if DMing is what it takes then DMing is what I'll do.
EDiT: Spelling
To help alleviate the problem when I am in the front, I tend to crouch. This helps the marines that are behind you somewhat.
Well, no crap, but the solutions discussed here would hurt everyone, everywhere. If some marines are idiots, you shouldn't have to add penalties/bonuses to make them play better.
Sounds great... but it's hard enough to decide who's comming at the beginning of the round, let alone try to divide your team up into sub-units..
Too bad you didn't have 2 minutes prior to the bell starting the match so you could organize this way.
Of course then you would get the lamers complaining about the delay.
Really? You've polled every single NS player to come to this conclusion?
These forums represent a small section of the community.
Oh come on !
It's just the way people are
No poll required
ive also noticed, while being a somewhat effective skulk killer, i NEVER jump while being attacked. i merely circle strafe and sidestep the aliens, and thats proven very effective for me. of course i know quite well how annoying it is to have jumping marines as a skulk, however if you simply jump to meet them, or wait where they land... problem solved.
the other night i actually saw a guy that had perfected backwards bunny hopping, so he could move backwards really fast and still shoot. now THAT was annoying as a skulk. thatll be out in 1.1 though.
Oh come on !
It's just the way people are
No poll required <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? And what made you the expert on "...the way people are?"
=D
If that is a big concern, then why not just take out marine the ability to fire in mid air? It's done in at least one other mod (the sniper in TFC) and serves a purpose when dealing with certain situations.
I think we need to examine what would make gameplay better?
Frankly, I think it has gotten to the point where EVERYONE jumps around like crazy in a battle, or if they are out of range the marine will immediately crouch to milk the hitbox bug for all it's worth.
However, I find that it's only when I'm WATCHING from the spawn queue that I find it tends to look really cheap and cheezy when it happens all the time.
Mind you it depend on what Flayra wants and what the community is prepared to accept. Right now I think you will find more people want the hopping since they miss it from CS. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Regards,
Savant
Oh come on !
It's just the way people are
No poll required <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? And what made you the expert on "...the way people are?" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hate to generalize people, but this time, I'm afraid Jower is right. People play NS to triumph over a frantic situation. The speed of the game (usually in the first 8 minutes as the hive goes up) gets that adrenaline going. The urgency is what helps make this fun.
Anyway, back on topic... Since you're complaining about people jumping into your line of fire, I'd like to complain about people who don't have the hand/eye coordination and player movement prediction ability who are incapable of knowing when to stop wasting ammo. Start shooting only when there's a line of fire and in bursts. Don't just hold down that fire in a hallway because otherwise your shots _will_ be blocked and you (if you have any sense of evasive maneuvers) _will_ block the shots others. You can't expect to leapfrog; that'd be counter productive as it'd cut the advancing speed down to half.
If that is a big concern, then why not just take out marine the ability to fire in mid air? It's done in at least one other mod (the sniper in TFC) and serves a purpose when dealing with certain situations.
I think we need to examine what would make gameplay better?
Frankly, I think it has gotten to the point where EVERYONE jumps around like crazy in a battle, or if they are out of range the marine will immediately crouch to milk the hitbox bug for all it's worth.
However, I find that it's only when I'm WATCHING from the spawn queue that I find it tends to look really cheap and cheezy when it happens all the time.
Mind you it depend on what Flayra wants and what the community is prepared to accept. Right now I think you will find more people want the hopping since they miss it from CS. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Regards,
Savant<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'No Shooting While Jumping' was one of my suggestions in an older thread regarding the whole issue of evasive bunny hopping. I also agree hoppy marines look silly looks from a spectator/atmosphere perspective but oh well. I push the removal of Evasive Bunny Hopping whenever the topic comes up but I think you may be right, Flay/people seems to want to keep jump shooting so I guess we're in the minority.
:-\
-Cpl. Hicks
<i>previous message :</i>
Anyway, back on topic... Since you're complaining about people jumping into your line of fire, I'd like to complain about people who don't have the hand/eye coordination and player movement prediction ability who are incapable of knowing when to stop wasting ammo. Start shooting only when there's a line of fire and in bursts. Don't just hold down that fire in a hallway because otherwise your shots _will_ be blocked and you (if you have any sense of evasive maneuvers) _will_ block the shots others. You can't expect to leapfrog; that'd be counter productive as it'd cut the advancing speed down to half.
-Anavrin
Hee Hee.
Marine Totem Poles work quite well too. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->