Not Good | Current Tactics.

blue2k · March 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">cheap shots on current servers.</div> recently ive noticed a lot of cheap arse tricks used by marines, and aliens to win a match. some of the things ive noticed are as follows:

1: commanders blocking the base entrances with unbuilt cc's.
2: gorgs dropping oc's on webbed marines and/or infantry portals.
3: commanders droppings 10 or more ccs inside a hive to distract oc's from firing at attacking marines.
4: pistol scripts firing 5 consecutive rounds or more.
5: turret farms on every major junction on the map, usually containg 10 turrets or more and usually an additional siege cannon or 3.
6: massive health spamming for marines as they attack a location, usually 50 or more medkits are distributed in a matter of seconds.

i realise some of these points are exploits, some are merely bad gamesmanship, but tactics like these are ruining gameplay for the majority of time constrained people just wanting a quick game. i hope some of these points are addressed in the comming patch, restoring some type of order to ns again.

Church · March 2003

number 5 is utterly stupid, and you should be PRAYING the enemy commander wants to do that. theny ou can go rape them with Fades and Onos. Turret spamming...yeah right...not in 1.04. Health spam is EXPENSIVE, and you can't drop 50 in a few seconds (not that you'd want to either. 50 packs= 100 res!)

Pistol scripting=stupid.

blue2k · March 2003

a1: egads man, number 5 totally blows for aliens with one hive trying to get another.
a2: turret farms are a reality in 1.04, have you never played ns?
a3: and yes you <b><u>CAN</u></b> drop 50 medpacks in a few seconds when you use a script and/or bind a key to do so, if the com has lots of res (because of turret farming) he can easily afford 100 or more res.
a4: i agree with pistol scripting (that its stupid and cheap).

Ahnteis · March 2003

CCs are too cheap for their HP.
Pistol scripts are an exploit and will be fixed in the next version.
Other then that health spam is part of the game
Webbed marines are as good as dead unless they have backup anyway (and if they do, then the backup can shoot the chamber after killing fatty).
turret farms while boring are certainly a legal use of marine funds. Kill their res towers early on to keep them from having $$.

Church · March 2003

I've played since 1.03, and yes, turret farming every major junction on the map is a sure-fire way to LOSE the game. In fact, turrets suck so much clan games NEVER see turrets. Trust me, I'v tried dropping medpacks as fast as possible using binds. I can get maybe 20 medpacks in 3 seconds.

2 hive lockdown is stupid, and EASY to take down in 1.04. If you can't, go to a smaller server, or find a better team. There probably has never been a reported case of a 2-hive lockdown win for the marines in a 1.04 clan match.

TeoH · March 2003

When any of those become game winning strategies, i'll eat my large fruit-hat.

Church · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Mar 18 2003, 06:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> When any of those become game winning strategies, i'll eat my large fruit-hat.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
LOL. Agreed.

masterswordman · March 2003

I've never even experienced most of them. Granted you want a wall of CCs when behind it are 2 onos, in that case you might also get a welder, and some heavy machiary

Sifo25 · March 2003

The pistol and the CC thing are the only valid gripes in that list blue, and hopefully as mentioned above, the pistol one will be fixed. I'd like to see an escalating cost for CCs, like the first is the current price (whatever it is, I forget) then second is x 1.5 as much, the third x 2 as much, etc, etc.

Sifo

Roobubba · March 2003

Any alien team that allows marines to turret farm all over the map have clearly missed the point of the game.

Roobubba · March 2003

As for gorges webbing or OCing infantry portals, if the gorges are confident enough to come into marine base it's all over anyway, just sit back and have a laugh at the endgame <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

blue2k · March 2003

i think some people are missing the point of this thread, this is not a "personal gripe" thread, even though i have witnessed all these things in game i managed to cope quite well with them myself (adaptable as i am).
though these tactics are not usually used on every server i frequent (this includes yours roobubba), i am noticing them more and more. my concern is that these tactics will eventually become "the norm" and that is what i find disturbing. that the cooperative style play of ns will denegrate into a lamearse cs style of "one upmanship" and general "leetness". does this not concern anybody else? if not thats fair enough, ive made my point and will stick by it.

Ahnteis · March 2003

Ahh yes, the general ambience and playstyle that are slowly going downhill. =(
NS is much more *fun* when marines feel a bit of fear, tension, intrepidation about going out of their base. When they have to work as a team and use strategy instead of "elite" skills, it becomes a much more interesting game. Too bad that players twist the game toward the team deathmatch playstyle. =(

p4Samwise · March 2003

These tactics will never become "the norm" as long as it's unfeasible to actually win with them a good portion of the time. The turret farm and massive medspam, for example, only happen in games when the marines have a huge resource advantage and have already won. If the marines are just dragging out the game by turret farming the whole map instead of finishing that one lonely hive, the aliens have the right to hit f4 and wait in the ready room for a real game.

coil · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (blue2k @ Mar 18 2003, 05:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 1: commanders blocking the base entrances with unbuilt cc's.
2: gorgs dropping oc's on webbed marines and/or infantry portals.
3: commanders droppings 10 or more ccs inside a hive to distract oc's from firing at attacking marines.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Icky. Hopefully CC walls will be addressed in 1.1, possibly by a "you can't place a CC within X range of another CC" rule. Personally, I'd like to see unbuilt buildings have health that is directly proportional to their % completion, at least on the marine side. As for the gorge... I have a harder time seeing this as exploitative. At the worst, play on a server with the /unstuck plugin to get yourself out. And you really ought to have backup; a lone marine who stumbles into webs ought to be dead meat, even if it's just a single gorge.
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>4: pistol scripts firing 5 consecutive rounds or more.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>This will be addressed in 1.1.
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>5: turret farms on every major junction on the map, usually containg 10 turrets or more and usually an additional siege cannon or 3.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>If they have the resources for it, why shouldn't they farm? It's a mediocre tactic at best, but it can turn the tide if the aliens are getting trapped by farms on all sides. For the amount of money spent, it's a legitimate move.
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>6: massive health spamming for marines as they attack a location, usually 50 or more medkits are distributed in a matter of seconds.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>Hooray for hyperbole. Personally, I'd like to see slow-acting medkits (rather like Max Payne's painkillers), but I don't think the commander should be penalized in dropping them.

blue2k · March 2003

thats exactly right, but i never have and never will f4. marines are taking longer and longer to kill the last hive, its an insult to the opposing team. they reward a good game with an endless wait to the final hiverush. there is no satisfaction in games like that (for me anyway). sometimes when aliens have 3 hives as a marine i can still win, sometimes as alien, when the marines have 2 hives i can still win. but lately its becomming harder to achieve those same results with this sad gameplay.

p4Samwise · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (blue2k @ Mar 18 2003, 10:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> thats exactly right, but i never have and never will f4.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
So instead you thought you'd come post a forum topic about how NS is doomed because of the turret farms? Riiight.

The readyroom key is there for a reason. If you choose to help marines protract games by not using it, that's your hangup.

Roobubba · March 2003

Part of the problem is that the alien endgame is vastly quicker than the marine on most of the time on pub servers. It takes marines several attempts to get into the hive and finally kill it because the skulks are pounding them constantly. I'm not saying that's the case all the time, but it seems to be more of a problem when marines are about to win, hence when aliens have three hives and the onos/lerk rush ensues, it's over fast, but unless the marines do a full team HA/HMG rush or have lots and lots of marines banging the hive down, it takes a LOT longer to get to that point after the point in the game when it's clear who will win.

Just a balance issue, and it will be completely different in 1.1 anyway.

Roobubba · March 2003

for what it's worth Samwise, the F4 key isn't there so you can spoil the fun of the winning team who has earned their way to victory. That's the reason I ban F4ers on my server (with adequate warning of course).

MMZ_Torak · March 2003

F4ing when the marines feel the need to research everything, and turret the whole map prior to killing the last hive is perfectly acceptable. I am not some computer opponent that doesn't mind being walled up in a corner of a map, starved for res. This might be fun in an RTS vs a comp opponent, but not so when you are on the recieveing side. There is no fun in spending more time in the spawn queue, than in the actual game, as marines camp the outside of the hive and only kill people that try to leave.

masterswordman · March 2003

Oh God, you don't like it buy your own server, you can't buy your own server, **** OFF!!!

Bigwig · March 2003

Med pack spam is pretty cheap, and I wouldn't shed a tear if it was missing in 1.1. I actually think the whole medpack system needs a re-haul.

p4Samwise · March 2003

Roobubba: Torak gets it. Which maybe is why I play on the MMZ server so often. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

TeoH · March 2003

No game should be unnecessarily prolonged after it's already been won.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Oh God, you don't like it buy your own server, you can't buy your own server, **** OFF!!!
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I have, and you're an idiot.

folk · March 2003

i don't see how building on top of a marine is cheap.
he shouldn't be wandering off alone to get owned.

blue2k · March 2003

cos some marines (and this is odd) actually follow the coms orders, and if nobody backs them up that might happen.

Church · March 2003

Alien building should also have health directly proportional to their completion status. That way a gorge can't just drop an OC and be completely protect by it because the gorge can build and heal it faster than a marine can kill it. It's only fair if unbuilt marine building have little HP.

Ahnteis · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Mar 19 2003, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Alien building should also have health directly proportional to their completion status. That way a gorge can't just drop an OC and be completely protect by it because the gorge can build and heal it faster than a marine can kill it. It's only fair if unbuilt marine building have little HP.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Alien buildings start with little health, are easily destroyed, and the gorge must be physically present (and in harm's way) to build them.

Marine buildings are generally OK, but CCs have waaaay too many HPs for the resource cost (when used this way) and the NO ONE has to be present to drop them as a precursor to an attack.

sej · March 2003

4: pistol scripts firing 5 consecutive rounds or more.

is the ONLY valid point, the rest are a waste of marine resources, or viable tactics

How can you condemn a gorge for skillfully dropping a building on top of a marine - its funny , and different.

Turret farms - christ most good clans dont build even one at the main base let alone everywhere in the map.

Nothing is lame apart from Scripts/hacks which give an unfair advantage. JP hmg rush is boring but not lame.

Aaron · March 2003

So the solution is for OCs to prefer shooting actual marines as opposed to strucutes, when presented with both choices.

Roobubba · March 2003

Sam, just different ways, if you can get a decent game either way then that's great. Im my own experience I've not found that it's a problem to impose the F4 rule on my server, the regulars appreciate it and often the endgame can have amusing moments that help to alleviate the (sometimes) stressful nature of the game (which is often a factor!).

If you don't find it's a problem everyone dumping out, I'm not critising you, I'm just saying I don't have it on my server <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Not Good | Current Tactics.

Comments