Please Do Not Protest.

greyfox5greyfox5 Join Date: 2002-02-14 Member: 217Members
This is no joke people. Dont protest against the war in Iraq. Why? I have a few police friends, one is the commander of the mobile swat team, the other is the chief of police in mobile. They were talking about a new "special" plan that they have against protesters, and said other police stations across America will do the same as they will do.

If a protest starts, they will send in "sleepers" Sleepers are police, dressed up as civis, designed to create and start a riot to make the crowd look like they are attacking the police. First, they will throw rocks. Second, if the protesters acctually start getting into it, they will throw firebombs, but away from the police, and at thier shields. Now, what does this look like? A bunch of "peacefull" anti-war protesters chunking firebombs at police? Now around that time, one of the sleepers will fire of a gun. Thats when bad stuff happens.

I am for the war, but I am not just saying this to make you guys believe in it. I am worried and concerend.
sorry for the bad grammer, but I am typing this in a hurry at school. Please, I dont want you guys to get hurt.
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Comments

  • SpoogeSpooge Thunderbolt missile in your cheerios Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 67Members
    Why would you be friends with people who would intentionally start a riot? Not to mention that they're the ones who are supposed to protect people. If there is a single ounce of reality in the scenario you've described, you have a responsibility to prevent it.

    Good luck.
  • Spyder_MonkeySpyder_Monkey Vampire-Ninja-Monkey Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 8Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Oh, there are going to be protestors.... and sleepers have always existed throughout history. However legal, it's a tactic police have always used. I believe the term "entrapment" is worth mentioning.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    The maybe biggest use of sleepers in history was put forward during the big demos at the end of the GDR (the absolute prove against the claim that protest actions never changed anything).
    The Stasi sent battalions of people in there to create violence within the crowds. Didn't work - the amount of non-violent people was just too big.

    I don't doubt the probability of this, it's been an option used by pretty much every police force in the last two centuries, but should the crowd be determined and intelligent enough - and every protestor should figure that out by himself when arriving - no harm can be done by such sleepers.
  • CrystalSnakeCrystalSnake Join Date: 2002-01-27 Member: 110Members
    Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "To Serve and Protect."
  • Sephiroth2kSephiroth2k Join Date: 2002-04-21 Member: 481Members, Constellation
    protesters have the right to protest. this is obviously wrong what you say the police are planning.
  • SaltySalty Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 6970Members
    The local law enforcement really give a hoot in your towan about whats going on in national politics?
  • KungFuSquirrelKungFuSquirrel Basher of Muttons Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Actually, they have the right to protest until there is a formal declaration of war. There was no formal declaration in Vietnam, which is how protesting was allowed to continue. Protesting while under a formal declaration of war is another thing entirely.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Really? Jeez, that part of legislation should be looked at again.

    Anyway, the US haven't declared wars since 1942, so I somehow doubt this'll be different.
  • StakhanovStakhanov Join Date: 2003-03-12 Member: 14448Members
    This cop tactic isn't new really , and was used recently in Genoa by the (nearly fascistic) carabinieri following Berlusconi's orders. There were videos of undercover cops in action (some of them were destroyed after the G8 ended... just too embarrassing to the local police) where "black block" activists met cops before and after demos. Many shops were pillaged , as the police kept attacking the more peacefull protesters , on purpose. It helped Berlusconi's propaganda branding protesters as "barbarians". At last , we saw the result , one young activist murdered.
  • Josiah_BartletJosiah_Bartlet Join Date: 2002-07-04 Member: 880Members, Constellation
    Well as far as protesting goes - personally I find it to be a waste of time.

    At my school, some people were planning one and so they went to see the Headmistress (God knows why) and now instead of a protest they are writing a letter to Tony Blair (the biggest waste of a second class stamp I have ever heard of) and have organised a prayer service.

    There we go bloody democracy in action.

    I don't know - probably the biggest factor in people being pro-war is the fact that there are idiots like these who are against it.
  • SovietDictatorSovietDictator Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12461Members
    I have never heard of this before. Is this something legal in many nations? I guess its legal to throw rocks, bottles, firebombs at vacant land. It might be entrapment, but if the real protesters due become violent then they deserve to be arrested; just because you see a fellow protestor throwing a 'insert object here' doesn't mean you should.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <a href='http://eng.bundesregierung.de/top/dokumente/Background_Information/Inside_Germany/German_unification/A_short_history_of_German_unification/ix9139_435112.htm?template=single&id=435112&ixepf=9139_435112&script=0' target='_blank'>Why I know that demonstrations can change something.</a>
  • Josiah_BartletJosiah_Bartlet Join Date: 2002-07-04 Member: 880Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Mar 18 2003, 07:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Mar 18 2003, 07:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://eng.bundesregierung.de/top/dokumente/Background_Information/Inside_Germany/German_unification/A_short_history_of_German_unification/ix9139_435112.htm?template=single&id=435112&ixepf=9139_435112&script=0' target='_blank'>Why I know that demonstrations can change something.</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sorry in my post I didn't mean protesting doesn't work.

    I meant that every school in my area has already had one walk out (more than likely fueled by people wanting to miss school) and so the teachers were expecting one and had plans drawn up ready to deal with one.

    It would have lasted all of 6 seconds and the ringleaders in quite serious trouble all for no reason at all really.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Well, if you're complaining about mindless protest for the heck of it, as it is apparently usual within big parts of the current middle class, I agree.
  • Josiah_BartletJosiah_Bartlet Join Date: 2002-07-04 Member: 880Members, Constellation
    Indeed, if I was deeply angered or upset about something I'd more than likely protest but if you are going to protest because you haven't done your Maths homework then that is just sad and I feel ashamed to know you.
  • GadzukoGadzuko Join Date: 2002-12-26 Member: 11556Members, Constellation
    There was a student at my high school in my graduating class who tried to get us to boycott school because the dress code was too harsh... we ignored him.

    He also tried to run for President. At age 18. *sigh*
  • DumbMarineDumbMarine Join Date: 2003-02-16 Member: 13645Members
    Ouch. How does someone like him "run for president?" Well... I guess its possible.

    If your gonna protest something, at least protest something peacefully and intelligently.
  • babygirlbabygirl Join Date: 2003-01-16 Member: 12378Members
    Until some proof is demonstrated here, I'm regarding the first post as FUD. I don't believe that the police would fire guns and throw firebombs at fellow police officers. Yeesh. If this were true, we'd be seeing it on the news during the current protests.

    Whether I agree with it or not, go ahead and protest. It's your right. I have also never seen any rule regarding protests after formal war is declared. Any links?
  • ZerglingZergling Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 9977Members
    the S.F. police department has arrested over 2,000 protestors in the last week. They are holding them in an abandoned warehouse on the waterfront. 40,000 cops were out on the street.
  • KMOKMO Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7617Members
    Cool. Did they manage to get anything in the USA Patriot act to make sure they don't get to see any lawyers? Or do we have to wait for the sequel?
  • ImmacolataImmacolata Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    They'll cart them to Guantanamo and declare them "illegal protesters" and then pay lip service to the laws while keeping them locked up for an unknown time period.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Seriously though, a number of 2000 is just ridiculous. Even the protest actions in Genua, which can be considered the largest escalating demonstration in recent history, didn't feature that much nonconforming protestors. Either the number has been inflated by the media (I also heard 1000), or this is something to be seriously concerned of.
  • KMOKMO Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7617Members
    Most sources I can find say "at least 1025 arrests", but they don't reveal where that precise figure came from. One says 1400. Seriously though, I assume they will be better treated than those in Guantanemo bay. Except for any foreigners present.

    I'm pleased that people do feel able to protest despite the patriotic pressure; I've been somewhat dismayed by pictures of people busy burning Dixie Chick CDs, and DJs refusing to play them, just because one of them said they didn't like the president. Surely they should be refusing to play them on artistic grounds <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (sorry).
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm pleased that people do feel able to protest despite the patriotic pressure; I've been somewhat dismayed by pictures of people busy burning Dixie Chick CDs, and DJs refusing to play them, just because one of them said they didn't like the president. Surely they should be refusing to play them on artistic grounds<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    LOL. No Apologies necessary.
  • KungFuSquirrelKungFuSquirrel Basher of Muttons Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I can't believe the apparent age of most of these protesters... I'm 19, and I'm watching close-ups of these people that look like they're 16 or in some cases maybe even younger. That brings up another interesting point... what of people younger than 18 participating in these protests? I mean, sure, everyone has a voice blah blah... But until you're 18... you really <b>don't</b> have a voice.
  • Spyder_MonkeySpyder_Monkey Vampire-Ninja-Monkey Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 8Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--KungFuSquirrel+Mar 21 2003, 05:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuSquirrel @ Mar 21 2003, 05:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't believe the apparent age of most of these protesters... I'm 19, and I'm watching close-ups of these people that look like they're 16 or in some cases maybe even younger. That brings up another interesting point... what of people younger than 18 participating in these protests? I mean, sure, everyone has a voice blah blah... But until you're 18... you really <b>don't</b> have a voice. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Most of America's youth chooses to rally under the "My country 'sux' and I hate it". I'm still trying to find when this became the norm, or why these people are allowed to continue and leech off of my tax dollars... but no luck.

    As for the protestors... AFAIK, there's no "formal" declaration of war, so as long as the protest was peaceful (which I doubt), they should be allowed to continue. However, it should be known that these are the same people that, if the draft were re-instated (highly doubtful), would make a b-line to Canada, and in my book, should not be allowed to return.

    I just hope hope that when/if I return from Korea, these aren't the people that will spit on me from behind a police line.
  • SaltySalty Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 6970Members
    <--- waits to see on CNN 14 year old girls burning draft cards.
  • DezmodiumDezmodium Join Date: 2002-10-23 Member: 1575Members
    Has Anyone read the new article on <a href='http://www.raisethefist.com' target='_blank'>Raise The Fist</a>? Yikes, looks like the Anarchist community finds protests to be innefective. I think that this is the time when I stop visiting that site. I would like to stay away from Homeland Security and would like them to stay away from me.

    "Apparently it has become obvious that our protest signs, banners, marches and demonstrations have yet to make an impact on those in power as they proceed with their imperialist agenda for war"
    "Through education, and direct action, our communities can become self-sufficient where we no longer have to rely on the current economic or political system as a way of life. Stopping the U.S war machine begins at home, with direct action. Now is the time to intensify this struggle. "We can set up a network of decentralized non-hierarchal committees within the community capable of providing food, clothes, shelter and self defense to the community; self-defense to insure that our communities remain independent from the jurisdiction of the political and class state."

    The way our goverment handles situations of political dissidence makes me want to sort of keep my opinions on the "down low" if you get my drift. I would advise other Americans who SEE what is going on with our government to do the same.
  • SaltySalty Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 6970Members
    hmm odd considering most of the protestors are unconstrained "reactive" and therfore believe in gun control.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Blanket remarks, how I have missed thou...
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