AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
edited April 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Apr 5 2003, 12:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Apr 5 2003, 12:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't know why title 18 gets under your skin, much of it explains protections under law, or how to prosecute crimes like murder, rape, theft, etc. Are you in favor of that sort of activity? And I doubt you've really scratched the surface of reading it all, as it's 10,'s of thousands of pages; if you include caselaw, millions of pages. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Long story MonsE, it mostly has to deal with a school project I did which involved a lot of work in the code, and the fact that it doesn't liek to define exactly what certain crimes really are. I think I spent about 4 hourse straight combing the code for a straight definition of "obscenity", but I couldn't find it.
OK, to get this back on topic, I'll try it with a bit of provocation:
Communist teaching can be regarded as apocalyptic religion comparable to Christianity during its first centuries.
Stand up, scream at the screen, sit down, and read my explanation.
Apocalyptic religions usually develop out of social misery that makes wide ranges of people believe in the inherently 'evil' nature of the current society or even the whole world. Christianity was born in an occupied country that suffered from the increasing roman opression - Communism was created under the impression of the social disaster that was the industrialization.
This 'evil' world is said to be overcome in the immediate future, most commonly by a righteously violent catharsis. Jesus stated numerous times that Judgement Day would arrive before some of the listeners "Had tasted death". Communism has its Revolution, which Marx assumed to be very near.
Following to the overthrow will be a new world of incredible beauty - Gods Realm / the communistic world.
There are more similiarities - both believes were/are based on writings ("Mao-bible"), were/are split up into numerous smaller sects or groups, and have missonaric tendencies.
The interesting difference is that early Christianity and most other apocalyptic religions contain a saviour, mostly a deity or holy person, whereas the communistic saviour is a group of ordinary people - the workers class - which is also the main audience of the belief.
OK, this should serve enough hook-ups for a discussion <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
Very true. Coincedentaly I just began reading "On the History Of Early Christianity" by Engels, in which he points out some of the many similarities between the early church and early communism.
Not only do Communism and Christianity have similar origins, but they were also similar in that charletons flocked to both the early church and the early communist organisations, simply because both bread rampant gullibility in their early stages.
The communist ideology indeed tends to behave like a religion... having prophets (Marx and Engels) , martyrs (Spartacus , the french Communards , Trotsky) , different schools of thought or even heretic groups (leninism , trotskism , stalinism , maoism...) lead by a messiah. Among each "church" there are sub-groups that worship their own idols (like Arlette Laguiller here , leading one of the 3 trotskist parties...) Finally , people who have very similar beliefs (old school communists and new trotskists) hate each other. They failed at freeing themselves from the feudal schemes they pretend to fight. Any strong political/religious movement will eventually end up betraying the original ideas. Christians hate each other , even if Jesus told them to love each other. Communists are divided , even if the most important sentence in the Communist Manifesto is "workers of all countries , unite !"
Nem I would like to draw your attention towards two places:
Historical materialism and the dialectic, (especially, transitional phases between the socialist revolution and communism). and, The Bolshevik's understanding of inter-imperialist war being inevitable under monopoly capitalism.
be wary of Stakhanov, I am withdrawing from this discussion.
We may have exagerated things a bit... there's hardly any "communist religion" , but people tend to prefer following charismatic leaders and simple ideas rather than taking the time to think about the whole issue. When they don't like their rival's ideas they stick to the opinions they define as "right" and make a branch of the original ideology , instead of debating with them about that point. Like in modern religions where people have "customized" beliefs... therefore the original bunch of strong idea slowly decays. Lenin's dream was that the educated masses would think by themselves instead of following a leader's opinion. Mao tried to apply this by distributing lots of communist books to the people , unfortunately they were so doublethinking that they considered them as the only truth sources. The "cultural revolution" failed , as the chinese people could hardly stop obeying their leaders for long.
I agree with the obvious fact that imperialism eventually brings war , but I think there's a way to avoid them. Our governments are feeble enough to bow before the economic power , so they should at least abandon policies incurring the demonstrating masses wrath.
guys, just because my avatar shows a soviet mark doesn't mean that i'm a communist. i believe that the russians were the true heros and victors of ww2. they were the ones fighting alone in stalingrad and saving the world.
*a salute to the stalingrad veterans that are still around today
Comments
Long story MonsE, it mostly has to deal with a school project I did which involved a lot of work in the code, and the fact that it doesn't liek to define exactly what certain crimes really are. I think I spent about 4 hourse straight combing the code for a straight definition of "obscenity", but I couldn't find it.
OK, no more about this!
COMMUNISM GOOD!
Communist teaching can be regarded as apocalyptic religion comparable to Christianity during its first centuries.
Stand up, scream at the screen, sit down, and read my explanation.
Apocalyptic religions usually develop out of social misery that makes wide ranges of people believe in the inherently 'evil' nature of the current society or even the whole world.
Christianity was born in an occupied country that suffered from the increasing roman opression - Communism was created under the impression of the social disaster that was the industrialization.
This 'evil' world is said to be overcome in the immediate future, most commonly by a righteously violent catharsis.
Jesus stated numerous times that Judgement Day would arrive before some of the listeners "Had tasted death". Communism has its Revolution, which Marx assumed to be very near.
Following to the overthrow will be a new world of incredible beauty - Gods Realm / the communistic world.
There are more similiarities - both believes were/are based on writings ("Mao-bible"), were/are split up into numerous smaller sects or groups, and have missonaric tendencies.
The interesting difference is that early Christianity and most other apocalyptic religions contain a saviour, mostly a deity or holy person, whereas the communistic saviour is a group of ordinary people - the workers class - which is also the main audience of the belief.
OK, this should serve enough hook-ups for a discussion <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Not only do Communism and Christianity have similar origins, but they were also similar in that charletons flocked to both the early church and the early communist organisations, simply because both bread rampant gullibility in their early stages.
Finally , people who have very similar beliefs (old school communists and new trotskists) hate each other. They failed at freeing themselves from the feudal schemes they pretend to fight.
Any strong political/religious movement will eventually end up betraying the original ideas. Christians hate each other , even if Jesus told them to love each other. Communists are divided , even if the most important sentence in the Communist Manifesto is "workers of all countries , unite !"
Let's hope Ghandi adepts won't become "peace fighters" <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Historical materialism and the dialectic, (especially, transitional phases between the socialist revolution and communism).
and,
The Bolshevik's understanding of inter-imperialist war being inevitable under monopoly capitalism.
be wary of Stakhanov, I am withdrawing from this discussion.
Lenin's dream was that the educated masses would think by themselves instead of following a leader's opinion. Mao tried to apply this by distributing lots of communist books to the people , unfortunately they were so doublethinking that they considered them as the only truth sources. The "cultural revolution" failed , as the chinese people could hardly stop obeying their leaders for long.
I agree with the obvious fact that imperialism eventually brings war , but I think there's a way to avoid them. Our governments are feeble enough to bow before the economic power , so they should at least abandon policies incurring the demonstrating masses wrath.
*a salute to the stalingrad veterans that are still around today
communism wont work vbecasue tehre is no incentive in practive( ie soviet style)
this is not true in many cases but broadly it is
in capitalism society melts down becasue of the huge differnces in wealth between rich and poor.
the middle was and iv lost my train of though im going to bed