I still never really use MT. I always get level 1 armor first because the sounds made by aliens is enough to tell you "they are in the room" or "nearby." But I mostly never use MT because it slows down your upgrade path significantly and as someone said earlier, does NOTHING for combating lerks and fades.
Yeah I don't like MT as I always rely on my headphones so I don't become dependent on MT. Also I hate it when several aliens attack and my screen is filled with blue circles and I can't see the aliens at all. Wish there was a way to turn it off sometimes :/
Also the MT only in the range of the obs sounds like such a good idea it's probably what the Dev's had in mind in the beginning, although someone else was right when they said MT made the Marines too similar to Aliens.
MT is not overpowered at all IMO. As it is now it tells you that an alien is running somewhere, but the circle as many of you noticed already lags. Basicly it gives the marines some preparation time. However at the time the marines have MT the aliens should have 3dcs making head on fights even (of course in a large corridor yadayadayada). As I've seen people either go MT then weap/armor jp/hmg etc or just straingth weap/armor, I must say these both tactics works equally well. If you go MT you will get slowed down and the Aliens have more time setting up defenses and vice versa. What I don't understand is why some people find it too good. Not to erm whine or anything, but the role of the MT can EASILY be played by a WH instead if people find out that MT is useless.
MT with one hive aliens is really the nail in the coffin. My main concern (although there are others) is that the marines take so friggen long to finish off one hive aliens. As aliens you dont want to sit there for 20 minutes harrassing bases to be slaughtered by marines (who saw you coming) who then decide to build more turrets.
MT rushing still hasnt been dealt with in my oppinion, marines found the "much better" tactic of tech rushing with jetpacks.
In short, it sucks playing aliens when you only have one hive and are waiting 20 minutes for marines to finish you. For 45 res, a commander can easily increase the suck factor 10 times.
at the moment alien buildings in range of an OBS show up as blue ciricles even without the MT upgrade, maybe just make it so MT is a lot cheaper, say 25 res, but only works within range of any OBS, which should make a sonar style pinging noise so the marines can't just leave one hidden in a perfect shadow somewhere near the alien hive.
Also if all obs are destroyed, upgrade should be lost.
1)Motion tracking research should be lost if the observatory dies (maybe make motion tracking slightly cheaper to compensate)
2)Replace Hive sight upgrade (no one uses that anyhow) with a "stealth" upgrade, that allows the alien to move slowly (using the walk key) without showing up on motion tracking.
3)Hives under construction should be removed from showing up on motion tracking.. Having them there just rewards the marines for not scouting, and also pretty much entirely kills the alien's chances. Also, why would they show up? The hive is not moving.
Well here's a random thought. There's a certain server plugging that would solve all your problems if it became MT.
It uses sound.
That’s right if theirs a alien in the area, it beeps. If it gets closer it beeps louder and louder. But you don't know there exact location, all you know is that there really close.
This eliminates most of the problems (knowing exactly where the aliens are) and keeps the usefulness of MT (knowing their close).
The only down side is if the sound was to loud or to quiet.
SuBAusNS Forum AdminJoin Date: 2003-02-18Member: 13723Members
I like that idea, however it could almost be seen as an alien advantage, because a large portion of the alien advantage is their ability to keep the marines scared and reluctant to move with determination. Then again, that could just help the balance.
What if motion tracking was what it implies? Something that tracks only motion. If a skulk is stationary, why would it continue to be tracked? I guess you could say that a motion tracker would remember the last location of an alien before it stopped moving, but this is an idea.
I used to play as marine on Linux servers back with MT wasn't working on them, and yuno what? We won PLENTY of games. MT (or more aptly the lack of it) didn't make a difference at all.
I'd like to see MT changed in a couple subtle ways. First I'm with the others and agree that it should only work within a set range of the obs. (say the same range as the old larger siege cannon range)
Next I'd like to see the actual MT blips moved from the main screen onto the mini-map ONLY. The mini-map should be like the comander's mini-map and show movements and such. The main screen would only show the action.
Marines would still be able to see alien movements, but they would have to have far more skill and not just treat MT as a wall hack and run around ramboing skulks because he can see them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But I mostly never use MT because it ... does NOTHING for combating lerks and fades. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A couple of posts have said something like this. With the greatest of respect they are totally 107% wrong. MT tells the marines where 80% of the aliens are - perfect for setting up fade killing ambushes (or sneaking behind Khara lines to siege a hive, or timing grenades to detonate as the Lerk reaches the corner, or 101 other tactics).
I like the inclusion of MT in the game and the strong role it has. But the aliens need some counter to it. Something like Sensory Chambers shield from MT within [SomeRange] and Motion Chambers make MT blips within [SomeOtherRange] appear randomly out of position by [SomeDistance].
What if motion tracking was what it implies? Something that tracks only motion. If a skulk is stationary, why would it continue to be tracked? I guess you could say that a motion tracker would remember the last location of an alien before it stopped moving, but this is an idea.
<!--QuoteBegin--Savant+Mar 24 2003, 07:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Savant @ Mar 24 2003, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd like to see MT changed in a couple subtle ways. First I'm with the others and agree that it should only work within a set range of the obs. (say the same range as the old larger siege cannon range)
Next I'd like to see the actual MT blips moved from the main screen onto the mini-map ONLY. The mini-map should be like the comander's mini-map and show movements and such. The main screen would only show the action. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> YES! and i would love for one of the sensory upgrades to be BLOWN AWAY and replaced by an anti MT... it would make sensory chamber into a much more useful thing
Having a portable tracker that replaces a weapon would be bad for small games. The marines are already at a disadvantage on small servers, they do not have the commander as a fighter (except for close to base fights), and this would make them lose another soldier who can't shoot.
<!--QuoteBegin--confused!+Mar 25 2003, 01:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (confused! @ Mar 25 2003, 01:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> mt + stand still = no circle nocircle= dead marine <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually you have it mixed up a bit... Here's what I have seen.
moving skulk + comes to a stop = circle stays in one spot for 3 seconds then goes out Circle stays in one spot = marines comes over and kills you from safe distance
The circle stays on screen WAY too log when you have stopped moving. Any time I play marine I can tell a mile away of a skulk has decided to camp a spot. Only on rare occasions do I ever get ambushed otherwise.
The circle should not be on the screen it should be on the MINI-MAP. That way even if you move into an area the marine will not know EXACTLY where you are.
He'll have to be more attentive and listen. It will ENHANCE gameplay for the marines.
I dont know why were even discussing it, its not getting taken out, not in this release anyway, and i SERIOUSLY doubt any time in the near future. I agree that it is annoying when your trying to camp, but the solution is to be more sneaky... >;)
Actually my understanding was that Flayra initially WANTED to have motion tracking only in the minimap for marine grunts, but there was a problem and he did it this way instead. I wouldn't be surprized if he put it back in the mini-map in future.
I also agree that motion tracking is bad. The very nature of the game is that marines must rely on teamwork and capture and control, not running through the corridors with no fear of alien attack. An alien that sits on the wall of one of the huge maps in natural selection cannot be doing the job his team needs him to do unless he is in a high traffic area, in which case he will eventually have to move to kill someone. Sitting waiting on marines to attack is important, but sitting for minutes at a time is not a good idea. Aliens need to be able to retain their sneaky abilities throughout the game. Their weapons rely on melee for most of their true power, and as such they must be able to either hide well or close distances well. Any good marine is at an advantage when an alien tries to do the latter. I say change motion tracking (there have been plenty of good suggestions made already). Save the atmosphere even during the latter part of the game. It may become a war about umbra and acid rockets, but aliens can still beat marines hands down if they use stealth over brute force.
Are u referring to MT with the blue circles on hud or the MT that u turn on when u activate your flashlight (this is only in a few servers) that acts like the one from Aliens?
This is just friendly dabate Barx. It's not liek Flayra reads this and implements EVERY suggestion he sees. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm sure when he makes changes they'll get playtested and then we'll see the result.
Right now people just want to see ANY changes that balance the game. As long as it makes the game better and more balanced I don't care what they change.
I would love to see the silence upgrade counteract motion tracking. For me it seems to be the perfect solution to the problem. I thought the idea of silence was to make ambushes easier since the marines can't hear the tappidy-tap of the skulk's footsteps, but it's almost useless in practice because the marines can see a moving alien at anytime with MT.
Making silence counteract motion tracking would be very helpful for sneak attacks and also keep the marines' guard up.
<!--QuoteBegin--EnemyATheGates+Mar 25 2003, 10:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EnemyATheGates @ Mar 25 2003, 10:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i think it's good as is, it's perfect for countering those damned cloaking stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Motion tracking does not counter cloaking.
To cloak, you must remain still.
Motion tracking does not track aliens that are not moving.
Comments
Also the MT only in the range of the obs sounds like such a good idea it's probably what the Dev's had in mind in the beginning, although someone else was right when they said MT made the Marines too similar to Aliens.
What I don't understand is why some people find it too good. Not to erm whine or anything, but the role of the MT can EASILY be played by a WH instead if people find out that MT is useless.
MT rushing still hasnt been dealt with in my oppinion, marines found the "much better" tactic of tech rushing with jetpacks.
In short, it sucks playing aliens when you only have one hive and are waiting 20 minutes for marines to finish you. For 45 res, a commander can easily increase the suck factor 10 times.
Also if all obs are destroyed, upgrade should be lost.
1)Motion tracking research should be lost if the observatory dies (maybe make motion tracking slightly cheaper to compensate)
2)Replace Hive sight upgrade (no one uses that anyhow) with a "stealth" upgrade, that allows the alien to move slowly (using the walk key) without showing up on motion tracking.
3)Hives under construction should be removed from showing up on motion tracking.. Having them there just rewards the marines for not scouting, and also pretty much entirely kills the alien's chances. Also, why would they show up? The hive is not moving.
It uses sound.
That’s right if theirs a alien in the area, it beeps. If it gets closer it beeps louder and louder. But you don't know there exact location, all you know is that there really close.
This eliminates most of the problems (knowing exactly where the aliens are) and keeps the usefulness of MT (knowing their close).
The only down side is if the sound was to loud or to quiet.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I used to play as marine on Linux servers back with MT wasn't working on them, and yuno what? We won PLENTY of games. MT (or more aptly the lack of it) didn't make a difference at all.
I'd like to see MT changed in a couple subtle ways. First I'm with the others and agree that it should only work within a set range of the obs. (say the same range as the old larger siege cannon range)
Next I'd like to see the actual MT blips moved from the main screen onto the mini-map ONLY. The mini-map should be like the comander's mini-map and show movements and such. The main screen would only show the action.
Marines would still be able to see alien movements, but they would have to have far more skill and not just treat MT as a wall hack and run around ramboing skulks because he can see them.
Regards,
Savant
But I mostly never use MT because it ... does NOTHING for combating lerks and fades.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A couple of posts have said something like this. With the greatest of respect they are totally 107% wrong. MT tells the marines where 80% of the aliens are - perfect for setting up fade killing ambushes (or sneaking behind Khara lines to siege a hive, or timing grenades to detonate as the Lerk reaches the corner, or 101 other tactics).
I like the inclusion of MT in the game and the strong role it has. But the aliens need some counter to it. Something like Sensory Chambers shield from MT within [SomeRange] and Motion Chambers make MT blips within [SomeOtherRange] appear randomly out of position by [SomeDistance].
Next I'd like to see the actual MT blips moved from the main screen onto the mini-map ONLY. The mini-map should be like the comander's mini-map and show movements and such. The main screen would only show the action. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES! and i would love for one of the sensory upgrades to be BLOWN AWAY and replaced by an anti MT... it would make sensory chamber into a much more useful thing
nocircle= dead marine
then me = sees stopped circles
nocircle= dead marine <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually you have it mixed up a bit... Here's what I have seen.
moving skulk + comes to a stop = circle stays in one spot for 3 seconds then goes out
Circle stays in one spot = marines comes over and kills you from safe distance
The circle stays on screen WAY too log when you have stopped moving. Any time I play marine I can tell a mile away of a skulk has decided to camp a spot. Only on rare occasions do I ever get ambushed otherwise.
The circle should not be on the screen it should be on the MINI-MAP. That way even if you move into an area the marine will not know EXACTLY where you are.
He'll have to be more attentive and listen. It will ENHANCE gameplay for the marines.
Enhanced gameplay = good
Regards,
Savant
Regards,
Savant
Right now people just want to see ANY changes that balance the game. As long as it makes the game better and more balanced I don't care what they change.
Regards,
Savant
Making silence counteract motion tracking would be very helpful for sneak attacks and also keep the marines' guard up.
Motion tracking does not counter cloaking.
To cloak, you must remain still.
Motion tracking does not track aliens that are not moving.
1 + 1 =?