<!--QuoteBegin--megatoast+Mar 27 2003, 05:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (megatoast @ Mar 27 2003, 05:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> However, if the SCs have a range like the DCs, then in places like Computer Core skulks could sit on the wall with SC on other side in vent and munch stuff... then they just cloak and hide if nething comes <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> CUNNNIIINNNGGGGG
That is great <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> can't you.. kinda... do that with the cloak now?
Picture this. A marine jetpacks into an occupied hive and starts firing off rounds into it, then after a few seconds a low rumble is heard, the hive starts to spew out waves of highly acidic sludge (sort of like a geyser), and after a few more seconds of being hit the hive makes a deafening high pitched squeal followed by tentacles that shoot out and grab at nearby marines, consequently stunning them, wrapping them, and slamming them into walls/ceilings/floors at massive cost of life and armor. If fire on the hive continues after this point it will release a noxious gas that envelopes the entire hive location impairing vision and movement of all nearby marines, and finally if it is still being shot it will teleport all aliens to the hive location (even live ones) in a distress-beconesq fashion.
Safe to say it's a satisfactory counter to electrified turret factories. Eh? Eh?
Edit: Before I get temp-banned this was meant in good humor, and since I comm 90% of my games I'm all for electric TFs.
The problem with the hive message is that it doesn't specify how many marines are attacking the hive. There should be some kind of indication of how many are attacking and how badly they are hurting it. The main problem being that every skulk in the game immidiately abbandons everything to go perserve the hive, thus leave the gorge alone and undefended, allowing marines to have a go at him. But that's just my opinion.
that was my idea for resources... i think this upgrade makes very powerful turret factorys in critical positions.. the only way to get turrets off destroying tf , with this upgrade you make undestroyable turrets...(for skulk attacks)
This electronic shock better for marine resources..
<!--QuoteBegin--Zek+Mar 27 2003, 08:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Mar 27 2003, 08:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you can't defend your hive, you deserve to lose it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Add yet the same cant be said for a 20 point turret factory, what are marines to GOOD to have defend it?
Personally, I think electrified TF's are only there to promote the use of Regen Skulks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
No matter what amount of health it takes away, unless it's insta kill you should be able to do some decent damage to the sucker before it takes you out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the person who said that acid conducts electricity, that is such a wildly sweeping statement it's just mindboggling: You don't put water on electrical circuits. Water conducts electricity, but fairly poorly. "Acid" in popular and most wide use refers to acidic AQUEOUS solutions. It is by means of the water (though arguably affected by whatever acidic species are present in it) that electricity is conducted (though relatively poorly we recall). Moreover, "acid" rockets in NS are a creation of an alien species. We have no idea if these are acids as we know them (or don't it seems). Nor, more importantly, do we know if they are aqueous!! The thing about chemistry is it seems so simple at "school" level. Then you get to university and are told to forget everything you ever learned and they tell you how it really is. Then you go on from there and discover it actually is easy after all, but it took 4 years just to get some pretty awkward concepts (such as quantum mechanics). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Granted, I'm no expert at chemistry. Most acids "should" be conductive of electricity to a point, due to the ions dissolved. As far as my knowledge extends, all acids require the prescence of hydrogen (acids are proton donors if memory serves correctly). The simplest and most powerful acid that I know of is HCl (Hydrochloric acid, One Hydrogen Atom combined with one Chlorine Atom) and it would surprise me if aliens used it as at least part of their concoction. As I said, I'm no expert, if you have a higher education then me, then by all means I bow to your superior knowledge and would ask for enlightenment <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Personally, I think they should start teaching the more advanced subjects earlier, such as physics and chemistry to primary school students. Just the basics and in terms they can understand. The more knowledge and wisdom that gets crammed into those young heads the better <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I wasted a good portion of my time reading about the planets, moons, sun, stars and other galaxies. Now I feel cheated becuase I know that I'll always be stuck on this mudball <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Enough of my moping, better get back to some important suff <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well if you think about it, a lone skulk could take a TF still if it doesn't instantly kill the skulk when he touches it. He can just grab regen(for speed reasons), and do hit and runs.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Yes but then the skulk would take much. MUCH longer to kill the TF. Without carapace the skulk might take lots of damage looking for a blind spot, then only maybe getting a few bites off before running off to heal. This means that the marines will have time to get back here with a welder and weld everything up. Very good idea.
How do you know that there is nothing like the hive having a defence? There are 10000000.3 surprises flayra hasnt told us about yet. The hive could very well have a defence system. Im getting tired of people going OMGZORS T3H 1.1 5UX0RZ before it even comes out. For all you know the skulks are getting beefed up or something, and we know for a fact lerk damage is being upgraded (my secret guess is they are changing damage to 18 and making it do double to buildings) And anywayz who cares if the tf is electricuted? ur gunna be able to have an onos (limited in abilitys and upgrades mind you) at hive 1 so this should be no problem. Also there is no jetpack charge in midair in 1.1 so jetpackers will NOT be able to fly around and go whoooooosh all over the place. As for lerks being counter to jet + hmg i dont know where youve been but a hmg > lerk especially with med spam.
<span style='color:yellow'>I think some of you guys are taking your PREDICTIONS and turing them into EXPECTATIONS.</span> Some of your opinions seem based soley on speculation, yet your so sure of it being right. I dont want to be a jerk, but I find it hard to decide for myself "<i>what</i> will be <i>what</i>" before playing it. Lets just cross our fingers and have an optimistic outlook?
BTW, i do think the hive should have cloak and other abilities, If only for the novelty then anything else. I mean, the Hive just sitting there like an oversized Goat stomach isnt very fun. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--BlueTorpeedo+Mar 28 2003, 09:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueTorpeedo @ Mar 28 2003, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='color:yellow'>I think some of you guys are taking your PREDICTIONS and turing them into EXPECTATIONS.</span> Some of your opinions seem based soley on speculation, yet your so sure of it being right. I dont want to be a jerk, but I find it hard to decide for myself "<i>what</i> will be <i>what</i>" before playing it. Lets just cross our fingers and have an optimistic outlook?
BTW, i do think the hive should have cloak and other abilities, If only for the novelty then anything else. I mean, the Hive just sitting there like an oversized Goat stomach isnt very fun. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well said, and oversized goat stomach...mm, reminds me of the vend-a-goat.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--Roobubba+Mar 28 2003, 07:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roobubba @ Mar 28 2003, 07:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> talk about off topic. 1.1 will have a lot of different features for balance. Wait for it and see what it brings instead of pre-emptively criticising it!!! Electrified TFs are there as a "balance" issue (in part of a much wider balancing programme).
As for the person who said that acid conducts electricity, that is such a wildly sweeping statement it's just mindboggling: You don't put water on electrical circuits. Water conducts electricity, but fairly poorly. "Acid" in popular and most wide use refers to acidic AQUEOUS solutions. It is by means of the water (though arguably affected by whatever acidic species are present in it) that electricity is conducted (though relatively poorly we recall). Moreover, "acid" rockets in NS are a creation of an alien species. We have no idea if these are acids as we know them (or don't it seems). Nor, more importantly, do we know if they are aqueous!!
The thing about chemistry is it seems so simple at "school" level. Then you get to university and are told to forget everything you ever learned and they tell you how it really is. Then you go on from there and discover it actually is easy after all, but it took 4 years just to get some pretty awkward concepts (such as quantum mechanics). <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
and yeah cloaking a hive would be fairly pointless if it didn't look like an unbuilt hive. After all you'd walk in and go, "Oh, the hive is invisible, therefore it must be built" instead of "the hive is unbuilt fellas"
Roo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well... it's not *exactly* that, but close. Acids have a very weak bond between the atoms in most cases. As do alkalines. Just that when the chemical reaction takes place, the acid particles act like 'keys' and the alkalines like 'locks', on the electron bond level. (the acid providing 1 apiece to each alkaline 7, 15, or whatnot).
And I prefer sulfuric acid myself... HCl is decent stuff, but you can't as easily get a noxious waft of stinking gas off it that'll eat your lungs out from the inside. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Mar 28 2003, 02:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Mar 28 2003, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have a perfectly practical solution.
Picture this. A marine jetpacks into an occupied hive and starts firing off rounds into it, then after a few seconds a low rumble is heard, the hive starts to spew out waves of highly acidic sludge (sort of like a geyser), and after a few more seconds of being hit the hive makes a deafening high pitched squeal followed by tentacles that shoot out and grab at nearby marines, consequently stunning them, wrapping them, and slamming them into walls/ceilings/floors at massive cost of life and armor. If fire on the hive continues after this point it will release a noxious gas that envelopes the entire hive location impairing vision and movement of all nearby marines, and finally if it is still being shot it will teleport all aliens to the hive location (even live ones) in a distress-beconesq fashion.
Safe to say it's a satisfactory counter to electrified turret factories. Eh? Eh?
Edit: Before I get temp-banned this was meant in good humor, and since I comm 90% of my games I'm all for electric TFs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Good idea, but the problem is that the "hive location" only extends as far as the info_location box the mappers put there. This would make a lot more work for the mappers, or else the gushing sludge would stop at some invisible boundary.... then the marines would figure out where, and just stand behind that.
Personally I think we should all just play as mobile hives, spewing out babbler-like skulks who rush and die for us. Imagine that.....12 hive bearing down on marine base......the now mobile marine base as the comm chairs lift off the ground and fire their missles at us..... BUT WE HAVE CLOAKING!!!!!!!! <b>OMG THEY SCANNED US, THEY WERE WAITING WITH SIEGES</b>
Fantasy can be fun. For now I suggest that everyone calm down a bit and stop freaking out at speculations. OMG, someone said they should have a hive defence, let's tear that person down and stomp on his pieces until he never wants to show his face on the boards again! Grow up guys...Please?
Also, my stuff has a way of getting deleted by the moderators.....so I guess this will just be for those of you who see it before someone reports it. I guess I tend to "flame" when I'm trying to make a point. Oh well, such is life.
<!--QuoteBegin--Trojan2+Mar 27 2003, 05:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trojan2 @ Mar 27 2003, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other side the top minds of the day when confronted by the Khara scurge decide to electra ONE of the MANY building that the marines deploy. No new super weapons, no lysol disinfectant gernades, no lasers (or god forgive a flamer), just an electrifeid support building..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let me ask you this: Do you really think that the top TSA minds would leak out their best new technologies? Hmm, I think not. They wouldn't risk Kharaa spies getting their hands on it.
Translation: There are things you don't know about 1.1 yet. Flayra isn't going to let you know about them yet. Hehe.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Mar 29 2003, 05:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Mar 29 2003, 05:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well... it's not *exactly* that, but close. Acids have a very weak bond between the atoms in most cases. As do alkalines. Just that when the chemical reaction takes place, the acid particles act like 'keys' and the alkalines like 'locks', on the electron bond level. (the acid providing 1 apiece to each alkaline 7, 15, or whatnot).
And I prefer sulfuric acid myself... HCl is decent stuff, but you can't as easily get a noxious waft of stinking gas off it that'll eat your lungs out from the inside. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...
The analogy of lock and keys is a very dodgy one when applied to aqueous solutions of simple ions. Also, it's not too useful to consider "shell or subshell" electron filling at this stage, as that is by no means the whole story. Quantum theory upended various assumed theories, and a grasp of this is important when considering electron pair availability (for example why some aromatic amines are WEAK bases when others are considered much stronger).
I would save the lock and key anaolgy ONLY for protein-ligand interactions, to be safe. In that case it's still a massive oversimplification.
There are various definitions of Acids and Bases (an Alkali is a soluble base). The most commonly applied ones are: The Lowry-Bronsted theory (excuse me for not finding the Umlaut-o) and the Lewis Theory.
When dealing with aqueous solutions of inorganic acid salts (eg HCl(aq), H<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>2</span>SO<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>4</span>(aq) (pure sulfuric acid is an anhydrous hygroscopic liquid)) the Lowry-Bronsted theory is most useful. An Acid is defined as a proton donor and a base as a proton acceptor. Thus in the case of HCl, Cl- is a proton acceptor (a weak base) and HCl is a proton donor (a strong acid). In the case of a base, take NaOH for example, OH- is a strong proton acceptor, and there are no proton donors in the species.
Lewis theory is much more useful in organic chemistry when considering acid/base properties of compounds such as phenols, esters, organic acids, amines, etc etc etc. It incorporates the electron pair acceptor/donor properties of a species (or functional group), hence ethylamine: CH3CH2NH2 (forgive non-subscript numbers), the nitrogen atom has a lone pair to donate (it can pick up a proton to give the "quaternary" amine cation), hence is considered a basic species.
I should stress that all of this is RELATIVE (usually to water), and when dealing with pKas of organic compounds the only thing that matters to a chemist is whether one is more or less basic/acidic than another species.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
Is anything stopping a bunch of marines doing an "eletrified TF rush"... i.e. rush the hive, and build several electrified TFs within proximity of the hive, and just let them zap it (and everything else) to death? I assume flayra and co are taking this into consideration but you never know... I guess the counter is to just make electrifying TFs really expensive (and thus, less useful in other cases)...
<!--QuoteBegin--DumbMarine+Mar 26 2003, 09:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DumbMarine @ Mar 26 2003, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think marines should have the ability to self-destruct the structures with like a 10 second countdown timer.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Better yet, we should strap C14 onto the marines and have them rush in. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this isnt ww2 in japan
<!--QuoteBegin--Bubacus+Mar 26 2003, 09:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bubacus @ Mar 26 2003, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From the sound of things, i think the Aliens have enough upgrades already, to counter the only real marine upgrade would just be silly.
I think marines should have the ability to self-destruct the structures with like a 10 second countdown timer. that'll show all those dang skulks chewin' in up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> From the sound of things?? dude have you played alien? When a marine just flies and and sits on top of a hive all the upgrades in the world isnt going to help a skulk hop up there and kill him if he has an hmg. Im not sayng that a marine cant get in to a hive location I just think he shouldnt be able to stand on top of a hive and shoot it. And yes I play both teams.
Here is my two shiny cents from what I have seen. Based on 1.04, I would like the following: First, next to each hive please put a health bar. We need something to know about how much damage the hive is actually taking, and it makes sense with the whole hivemind setup. A lone marine pistoling the hive is way less of a threat(for the most part) than a full squad. With a healthbar, the aliens would know with how much force to respond. It sucks when the entire team responds to a single guy when they could have been keeping the pressure on the marines. Just my opinion there.
Second, maybe once notch below the hive, a new upgrade can be built onto the hive. It would change the model by addming a new "gas sac" to the hive. Whenever the hive starts to take damage the sac releases a weakened version of spore cloud. 6/hp instead of 8/hp per second.
*second gas idea: Make a "paralyzing gas" that drops all jper to the ground, where they can still fire and turn, but can not move.
make the upgrade buidable by any gorge within range, and be about twice a tower(30 or so rp's). When the hive is upgradeing it can not spawn units or heal local units.(keeps it from being used at the last minute, you have more of a risk if you do).
the thing u guys seem to be forgetting is offense chambers are stand alone units in ns. they can fire without d chambs and without any other structures. marines who wish to kill an offence chamber must deal with the offence chamber itself. killing the offence chamber only renders that one OC useless and the rest can still fire. on the other hand, turrets have the inherent weakness of being linked to a turret factory. killing the tf renders the turrets useless, pretty much wasting all the res put into the turrets. a lerk can easily fly around, spike shoot, umbra and bite to kill that tf. its only fair that the tf have some innate defense mechanism. the aliens have the advantage of being decentralized with their offence chambers, plus they have auto healing with D chambs.
Comments
That is great <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
can't you.. kinda... do that with the cloak now?
*missing something?*
Picture this. A marine jetpacks into an occupied hive and starts firing off rounds into it, then after a few seconds a low rumble is heard, the hive starts to spew out waves of highly acidic sludge (sort of like a geyser), and after a few more seconds of being hit the hive makes a deafening high pitched squeal followed by tentacles that shoot out and grab at nearby marines, consequently stunning them, wrapping them, and slamming them into walls/ceilings/floors at massive cost of life and armor. If fire on the hive continues after this point it will release a noxious gas that envelopes the entire hive location impairing vision and movement of all nearby marines, and finally if it is still being shot it will teleport all aliens to the hive location (even live ones) in a distress-beconesq fashion.
Safe to say it's a satisfactory counter to electrified turret factories. Eh? Eh?
Edit: Before I get temp-banned this was meant in good humor, and since I comm 90% of my games I'm all for electric TFs.
The doc is a badazz comm
::slaps the doc around a bit:: Dont attract flamez man
i think this upgrade makes very powerful turret factorys in critical positions.. the only way to get turrets off destroying tf , with this upgrade you make undestroyable turrets...(for skulk attacks)
This electronic shock better for marine resources..
Add yet the same cant be said for a 20 point turret factory, what are marines to GOOD to have defend it?
No matter what amount of health it takes away, unless it's insta kill you should be able to do some decent damage to the sucker before it takes you out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the person who said that acid conducts electricity, that is such a wildly sweeping statement it's just mindboggling:
You don't put water on electrical circuits.
Water conducts electricity, but fairly poorly.
"Acid" in popular and most wide use refers to acidic AQUEOUS solutions. It is by means of the water (though arguably affected by whatever acidic species are present in it) that electricity is conducted (though relatively poorly we recall).
Moreover, "acid" rockets in NS are a creation of an alien species. We have no idea if these are acids as we know them (or don't it seems). Nor, more importantly, do we know if they are aqueous!!
The thing about chemistry is it seems so simple at "school" level. Then you get to university and are told to forget everything you ever learned and they tell you how it really is. Then you go on from there and discover it actually is easy after all, but it took 4 years just to get some pretty awkward concepts (such as quantum mechanics). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Granted, I'm no expert at chemistry. Most acids "should" be conductive of electricity to a point, due to the ions dissolved. As far as my knowledge extends, all acids require the prescence of hydrogen (acids are proton donors if memory serves correctly). The simplest and most powerful acid that I know of is HCl (Hydrochloric acid, One Hydrogen Atom combined with one Chlorine Atom) and it would surprise me if aliens used it as at least part of their concoction. As I said, I'm no expert, if you have a higher education then me, then by all means I bow to your superior knowledge and would ask for enlightenment <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Personally, I think they should start teaching the more advanced subjects earlier, such as physics and chemistry to primary school students. Just the basics and in terms they can understand. The more knowledge and wisdom that gets crammed into those young heads the better <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I wasted a good portion of my time reading about the planets, moons, sun, stars and other galaxies. Now I feel cheated becuase I know that I'll always be stuck on this mudball <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Enough of my moping, better get back to some important suff <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
{Edit} Additions, Typos
You ever tried to kill a lerk sitting on top of the hive while 2 or 3 DCs are also nearby?
BTW, i do think the hive should have cloak and other abilities, If only for the novelty then anything else. I mean, the Hive just sitting there like an oversized Goat stomach isnt very fun. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW, i do think the hive should have cloak and other abilities, If only for the novelty then anything else. I mean, the Hive just sitting there like an oversized Goat stomach isnt very fun. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well said, and oversized goat stomach...mm, reminds me of the vend-a-goat.
[off topic]
<img src='http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.php/5f79896b/vendagoat.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Electrified TFs are there as a "balance" issue (in part of a much wider balancing programme).
As for the person who said that acid conducts electricity, that is such a wildly sweeping statement it's just mindboggling:
You don't put water on electrical circuits.
Water conducts electricity, but fairly poorly.
"Acid" in popular and most wide use refers to acidic AQUEOUS solutions. It is by means of the water (though arguably affected by whatever acidic species are present in it) that electricity is conducted (though relatively poorly we recall).
Moreover, "acid" rockets in NS are a creation of an alien species. We have no idea if these are acids as we know them (or don't it seems). Nor, more importantly, do we know if they are aqueous!!
The thing about chemistry is it seems so simple at "school" level. Then you get to university and are told to forget everything you ever learned and they tell you how it really is. Then you go on from there and discover it actually is easy after all, but it took 4 years just to get some pretty awkward concepts (such as quantum mechanics). <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
and yeah cloaking a hive would be fairly pointless if it didn't look like an unbuilt hive. After all you'd walk in and go, "Oh, the hive is invisible, therefore it must be built" instead of "the hive is unbuilt fellas"
Roo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... it's not *exactly* that, but close. Acids have a very weak bond between the atoms in most cases. As do alkalines. Just that when the chemical reaction takes place, the acid particles act like 'keys' and the alkalines like 'locks', on the electron bond level. (the acid providing 1 apiece to each alkaline 7, 15, or whatnot).
And I prefer sulfuric acid myself... HCl is decent stuff, but you can't as easily get a noxious waft of stinking gas off it that'll eat your lungs out from the inside. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Picture this. A marine jetpacks into an occupied hive and starts firing off rounds into it, then after a few seconds a low rumble is heard, the hive starts to spew out waves of highly acidic sludge (sort of like a geyser), and after a few more seconds of being hit the hive makes a deafening high pitched squeal followed by tentacles that shoot out and grab at nearby marines, consequently stunning them, wrapping them, and slamming them into walls/ceilings/floors at massive cost of life and armor. If fire on the hive continues after this point it will release a noxious gas that envelopes the entire hive location impairing vision and movement of all nearby marines, and finally if it is still being shot it will teleport all aliens to the hive location (even live ones) in a distress-beconesq fashion.
Safe to say it's a satisfactory counter to electrified turret factories. Eh? Eh?
Edit: Before I get temp-banned this was meant in good humor, and since I comm 90% of my games I'm all for electric TFs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good idea, but the problem is that the "hive location" only extends as far as the info_location box the mappers put there. This would make a lot more work for the mappers, or else the gushing sludge would stop at some invisible boundary.... then the marines would figure out where, and just stand behind that.
Personally I think we should all just play as mobile hives, spewing out babbler-like skulks who rush and die for us. Imagine that.....12 hive bearing down on marine base......the now mobile marine base as the comm chairs lift off the ground and fire their missles at us..... BUT WE HAVE CLOAKING!!!!!!!! <b>OMG THEY SCANNED US, THEY WERE WAITING WITH SIEGES</b>
Fantasy can be fun. For now I suggest that everyone calm down a bit and stop freaking out at speculations. OMG, someone said they should have a hive defence, let's tear that person down and stomp on his pieces until he never wants to show his face on the boards again! Grow up guys...Please?
Also, my stuff has a way of getting deleted by the moderators.....so I guess this will just be for those of you who see it before someone reports it. I guess I tend to "flame" when I'm trying to make a point. Oh well, such is life.
Let me ask you this: Do you really think that the top TSA minds would leak out their best new technologies? Hmm, I think not. They wouldn't risk Kharaa spies getting their hands on it.
Translation: There are things you don't know about 1.1 yet. Flayra isn't going to let you know about them yet. Hehe.
And I prefer sulfuric acid myself... HCl is decent stuff, but you can't as easily get a noxious waft of stinking gas off it that'll eat your lungs out from the inside. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
The analogy of lock and keys is a very dodgy one when applied to aqueous solutions of simple ions. Also, it's not too useful to consider "shell or subshell" electron filling at this stage, as that is by no means the whole story. Quantum theory upended various assumed theories, and a grasp of this is important when considering electron pair availability (for example why some aromatic amines are WEAK bases when others are considered much stronger).
I would save the lock and key anaolgy ONLY for protein-ligand interactions, to be safe. In that case it's still a massive oversimplification.
There are various definitions of Acids and Bases (an Alkali is a soluble base). The most commonly applied ones are: The Lowry-Bronsted theory (excuse me for not finding the Umlaut-o) and the Lewis Theory.
When dealing with aqueous solutions of inorganic acid salts (eg HCl(aq), H<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>2</span>SO<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>4</span>(aq) (pure sulfuric acid is an anhydrous hygroscopic liquid)) the Lowry-Bronsted theory is most useful. An Acid is defined as a proton donor and a base as a proton acceptor.
Thus in the case of HCl, Cl- is a proton acceptor (a weak base) and HCl is a proton donor (a strong acid).
In the case of a base, take NaOH for example, OH- is a strong proton acceptor, and there are no proton donors in the species.
Lewis theory is much more useful in organic chemistry when considering acid/base properties of compounds such as phenols, esters, organic acids, amines, etc etc etc. It incorporates the electron pair acceptor/donor properties of a species (or functional group), hence ethylamine: CH3CH2NH2 (forgive non-subscript numbers), the nitrogen atom has a lone pair to donate (it can pick up a proton to give the "quaternary" amine cation), hence is considered a basic species.
I should stress that all of this is RELATIVE (usually to water), and when dealing with pKas of organic compounds the only thing that matters to a chemist is whether one is more or less basic/acidic than another species.
/chemistry lesson over
Roo <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Better yet, we should strap C14 onto the marines and have them rush in. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this isnt ww2 in japan
OR viatnam war
I think marines should have the ability to self-destruct the structures with like a 10 second countdown timer. that'll show all those dang skulks chewin' in up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
From the sound of things?? dude have you played alien? When a marine just flies and and sits on top of a hive all the upgrades in the world isnt going to help a skulk hop up there and kill him if he has an hmg. Im not sayng that a marine cant get in to a hive location I just think he shouldnt be able to stand on top of a hive and shoot it. And yes I play both teams.
First, next to each hive please put a health bar. We need something to know about how much damage the hive is actually taking, and it makes sense with the whole hivemind setup. A lone marine pistoling the hive is way less of a threat(for the most part) than a full squad. With a healthbar, the aliens would know with how much force to respond. It sucks when the entire team responds to a single guy when they could have been keeping the pressure on the marines. Just my opinion there.
Second, maybe once notch below the hive, a new upgrade can be built onto the hive. It would change the model by addming a new "gas sac" to the hive. Whenever the hive starts to take damage the sac releases a weakened version of spore cloud. 6/hp instead of 8/hp per second.
*second gas idea: Make a "paralyzing gas" that drops all jper to the ground, where they can still fire and turn, but can not move.
make the upgrade buidable by any gorge within range, and be about twice a tower(30 or so rp's). When the hive is upgradeing it can not spawn units or heal local units.(keeps it from being used at the last minute, you have more of a risk if you do).
So you either put some sieges or you get a skulk-proof factory.
offense chambers are stand alone units in ns. they can fire without d chambs and without any other structures. marines who wish to kill an offence chamber must deal with the offence chamber itself. killing the offence chamber only renders that one OC useless and the rest can still fire.
on the other hand, turrets have the inherent weakness of being linked to a turret factory. killing the tf renders the turrets useless, pretty much wasting all the res put into the turrets. a lerk can easily fly around, spike shoot, umbra and bite to kill that tf.
its only fair that the tf have some innate defense mechanism. the aliens have the advantage of being decentralized with their offence chambers, plus they have auto healing with D chambs.