Wanna Win?

BlackPantherBlackPanther Join Date: 2002-02-11 Member: 197Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Easy</div> Don't do a skulk rush of the marine spawn.

I've seen way too many games where a mass of skulks just comes rushing in the spawn and they get wasted. This is an old tactic that needs to stop. Everyone knows it's coming.
In fact, every-single-time i play ns_eclipse, i put my back in a corner of walls near the doors, and blast almost all of the skulks coming in with extreme ease.

All those ressources it takes for you and you're fellow aliens to spawn could of been spent on building a RES tower or a Defense Chamber.
Plus, while you're waiting to respawn, the marines move out and start securing the 2 other hives... which is that you should of done right at the start of the game.

So next time you're feeling in a rambo moob... slap yourself silly and play differently if you want to win.
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Comments

  • FireStormFireStorm Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7390Members
    Skulk rushing on eclipse is just silly because the marine spawn is a big area. But it's still good on hera or caged for example.
  • The_SpectreThe_Spectre Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9212Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--BlackPanther+Mar 28 2003, 02:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlackPanther @ Mar 28 2003, 02:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All those ressources it takes for you and you're fellow aliens to spawn could of been spent on building a RES tower or a Defense Chamber. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not true.
    The whole team (except gorge) dying is actually <i>beneficial</i> to the resource situation for aliens. Spawning is free, and while you're dead, the resources that you would have gotten go to the gorge.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Plus, while you're waiting to respawn, the marines move out and start securing the 2 other hives... which is that you should of done right at the start of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is true however. Giving the marines free reign of the map probably doesn't weigh up against the slightly faster res. On the other hand, in a game with good players, marines have pretty much free reign of the map anyways, until the aliens get carapace.
  • taboofirestaboofires Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9853Members
    The only real problem with a skulk rush is that it leaves you vulnerable to counter-attack. If your hive is close to marine spawn, you won't all be alive by the time the marines get there. rush -> spawn camp -> gg
  • ChurchChurch Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation
    Firestorm, the MS on Hera i pretty big as well, but the fact that there are 2 regular entrances and a vent entrance makes it better for the initial rush than the eclipse MS.
  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    It's been brought up before that the early rush is a Bad Thing, and I agree. It's far more important to keep all your skulks alive and on patrol for trouble than to try to go for a quick win. With all the skulks gone, there's nobody making sure the marines don't relocate, rambos killing the gorge, nodes being secured etc.

    I've found that on pubs with good alien players and teamwork happening, the skulks spread out like a spider's web, covering all the strategic areas. As soon as the other skulks see that one of them has found marines, they converge on that spot and tear the marines to shreds. Then they spread out again.
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
    very true, and if you last long enough then you can throw up a few DC in a vent and go lerk the base to death, not only doing damage to the marines, but tying up several of the marines to hunt down that pesky lerk
  • KeyserKeyser Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13591Members
    I am one of the few supporters of a skulk rush. Most of the time only half the team rushes with me, so its not like we're totally defensive when we all die. An added benefit is faster build time for the gorge. In a worst case scenereo, if every skulk besides the gorge dies, the marines havn't relocated (unless they relocate after the rush) so it takes a minute or two for them to build up their base, and by then all skulks have respawned and the gorge has possibly twice the amount of resources he would have had if everyone stayed alive.
  • Thanatos121Thanatos121 Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10923Members
    I agree that attacking the marine base at the start can put them at a disadvantage - a few good skulks can slow down the marine build order quite effectively.

    The caveat is that those skulks have to be very good - marines expect to be rushed nowadays, and an alert marine is very hard for a skulk to kill.

    I think that a good compromise is to hang around Rez nodes. That way, you can prevent marine expansion and still have the element of suprise. Wait until the marine commander drops an RT, then come out and try to do some damage.
  • TheHornetTheHornet Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1776Members, Constellation
    if all the skulks are dead the groge is getting some awsome res...
  • AIRinc_FaReZAIRinc_FaReZ Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14763Members
    some maps are made for skulk rushing while others are not. eclipse is a deathtrap for skulks. i can kill 2 of those irritating open-door-and-para-and-run-away skulks just with my pistol in eclipse. somehow, when the skulks start paraing, they seem to think WE cant see them or they can run away in time. so they get all comfy and provide nice big targets to work the pistol on. one hive spiking lerks tend to do this as wel. 10 pistol bullets in 1 sec kills any one hive alien i think (cept maybe for the cara gorge)
  • StoneburgStoneburg Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
    The Skulk rush is rarely *successful*. Some people go "Yay! We killed 4 marines!" and think that actually did something. Newsflash: If they ahve more then one IP they will spawn MUCH quicker and you didn't cost them any Res at all.

    If you can rush in and actually kill a structure, THEN it is successful.

    *The* map for skulk rushes is ns_bast. If you start in Engine hive there's a 50% chance you've won the game after 1 minute, or forced a relocation.

    Eclipse is usually suicide.
  • DihardDihard Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10365Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Mar 30 2003, 12:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Mar 30 2003, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Newsflash: If they ahve more then one IP they will spawn MUCH quicker and you didn't cost them any Res at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I may be nitpicking, but doesn't it cost 1 res for a marine to respawn?
  • SuBSuB AusNS Forum Admin Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13723Members
    There's something to be said for not rushing them in that they go "WTH, where's the rush?", usually followed by getting all creeped out or the rambos running off to find their kill.
  • AIRinc_FaReZAIRinc_FaReZ Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14763Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Dihard+Mar 30 2003, 03:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dihard @ Mar 30 2003, 03:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Mar 30 2003, 12:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Mar 30 2003, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Newsflash: If they ahve more then one IP they will spawn MUCH quicker and you didn't cost them any Res at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I may be nitpicking, but doesn't it cost 1 res for a marine to respawn? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    nope no res is need for spawning. actually killing 4 marines DOES serve a purpose. it makes them demoralised that they are playing against gd skulks. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> DIE SKULK!
  • BlackPantherBlackPanther Join Date: 2002-02-11 Member: 197Members
    Instead of rushing at the start, you should hold out right at the door to their spawn.
    Like in ns_eclipse, skulks should not rush in, but wait for the marines to come out of the doors and jump on their heads from above.

    In doing so, you're keeping them confined to their spawn and gives your gorge freedom of movement around the map to cap res nodes.

    Some of you may find this strategy "lame", but it's just as acceptable as marines seiging your hive.
  • SkydancerSkydancer Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14959Members, Constellation
    exactly like black said

    oh, sorry, presentations
    hi i'm Skydancer, i mostly play kharaa on italian and western europe servers and it's been some time from when i began reading these forums <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • EclipseEclipse Join Date: 2003-01-18 Member: 12444Members
    I'm pretty sure marine spawning costs 1 res.

    Perfect example is right in the beginning, Marine team starts with 100 res. But it counts down for each marine that spawns, so if you have an 8 man team, once the game starts you'll have 92 res
  • AIRinc_FaReZAIRinc_FaReZ Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14763Members
    Flay himself said that spawning does NOT cost any res. cant rmb the post or ill put the url. maybe spawning in the beginning costs 1 res. but im fairly sure spawning from ips dont.
  • BlackPantherBlackPanther Join Date: 2002-02-11 Member: 197Members
    Ok so it doesn't cost res..... BUT, it does eat up res when you have to evolve everytime you die like when getting carapace or regeneration. Those 2 res, multiply them by the number of aliens on your team, and the number of time you and your teammates have died...

    That adds up to a lot of res which could of been spent on making more res towers and a 2nd hive.
  • CatpokerCatpoker Join Date: 2002-06-25 Member: 816Members
    the only time it costs res to spwan is if you have carapace and get it everytime you die.... (and that is a choice)
  • AIRinc_FaReZAIRinc_FaReZ Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14763Members
    Yeah getting cara and regen and blah does NOT count as spawning. Then you would be able to say spawning costs 76 res at 3 hives! ASSUMING everyone evolves into Onos and gets all 3 upgrades and dies instantly, that is. So, spawning costs NO res.
  • GadzukoGadzuko Join Date: 2002-12-26 Member: 11556Members, Constellation
    I generally sprint to marine start right off (except on nothing, in which case I go to cargo) to check for relocation or the beginnings of a tech rush. Just run in, parasite a couple marines (please please don't sit around parasiting structures, it just clutters hive sight for no reason) and either run away or die. After that I start running around to all the main areas checking for marine sprinters.

    Oh, and Panther, during the rush you won't have defense chambers so you can't spend res on carapace anyway. It adds up once you get it, sure, but it's a necessary evil to prevent marine expansion. If you can get everyone together with carapace and rush one spot all at once, odds are the marines won't be able to stop you.
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--BlackPanther+Mar 28 2003, 02:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlackPanther @ Mar 28 2003, 02:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't do a skulk rush of the marine spawn.

    I've seen way too many games where a mass of skulks just comes rushing in the spawn and they get wasted. This is an old tactic that needs to stop. Everyone knows it's coming.
    In fact, every-single-time i play ns_eclipse, i put my back in a corner of walls near the doors, and blast almost all of the skulks coming in with extreme ease.

    All those ressources it takes for you and you're fellow aliens to spawn could of been spent on building a RES tower or a Defense Chamber.
    Plus, while you're waiting to respawn, the marines move out and start securing the 2 other hives... which is that you should of done right at the start of the game.

    So next time you're feeling in a rambo moob... slap yourself silly and play differently if you want to win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    actually when there are dead skulks, the gorge gets resources faster to get the Resource tower or D chamber. Dead alien players do not draw from the resource pool. By the time the marines are done building their base and what not, your skulks are back in the game. Rushing early the first time is good, rushing the second time is usually not a smart move, but stalking and killing off the marine rush and then running it back is smart.
  • Frogg2Frogg2 Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4867Members, Constellation
    Marines do cost 1 res to spawn, this is a fact. There is a nasty expliot that someone could do to drain all the marine starting res.
  • CatpokerCatpoker Join Date: 2002-06-25 Member: 816Members
    Flayra has stated that marine/alien spwaning DOES NOT COST RES!!!!!


    please have the facts stright before posting
  • cybranglcybrangl Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11605Members
    Ok, to start, at least previous to 1.04, the <i>initial</i> spawn cost 1 res for each marine <i>prior to game starting</i>. Once the game started, the spawn cost nothing. I'm not sure why this was or if it still happens (haven't bothered to look lately).

    Ok, second, even a failed skulk rush can hinder the marines. If you kill some marines and structures...bonus! The idea is to create fear in the group. If you get some non-vets in there you can really kill morale.
    One of the best tactics I have seen on 8v8 is for a few to keep rushing the base while the rest gurad the doors. The rushing teams will usually take turns going in as the newly spawned ones are heading back to take up a position outside the base. This allows for the "hinderence fctor" (if they aren't building or planning, they are less effective) and help to contain them. You might even get the marines to waste more res on mines and turrets.
    If you don't pressure them they can turtle up and get a jp/hmg rush. Constant pressure can slow them donw signifigantly while letting your gorge build up.
  • KingKupoKingKupo Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9785Members
    isn't the kharaa objective to contain and eventually cleanse te intruders? skulk rushes aren't that bad but mostly i wait outside their base to keep them at bay. however when the 'rines cant **** any critical structures the rush becomes a pain in the **** for 'rines. while 3 'rines build the skulks rush in and kill thm and the structure, then the building is build gain and the skulks repeat till they are dead.
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you don't pressure them they can turtle up and get a jp/hmg rush.  Constant pressure can slow them donw signifigantly while letting your gorge build up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You saved me a long drawn out post...

    Yep, this is 100% correct, Marines can't build if they are shooting at things, and they can't concentrate on building if they are checking the doors for alien intruders chuckling at them..

    This combined with a way to surprise rambos (for those that run out the door to lock down a hive) keeps marines at a disadvantage.

    Now that's not to say rushes are always appropriate.

    However, the best skulk rushes are found when you didn't rush initially and the marines have all left to build up locations. Rush THEN!! They have generally not defended the base (since their was no initial rush) and you can always take down a few things..

    I'm surprised at the number of people who seem to focus only on the current marine objective. You can devistate the marines by running behind the action to their base and chomping the OBS and IP's....
  • DeaconDeacon Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9852Members, Constellation
    Commanders are cheap.

    They will only spend as much as they absolutely must on base defense. If they can get away with one dedicated guard, they will do that. One of the purposes of the skulk rush is to encourage the comm to spend early rp on useless stuff (like a turret farm or a jillion mines).
  • FrothybeverageFrothybeverage Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13593Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Apr 3 2003, 09:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Apr 3 2003, 09:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Marines do cost 1 res to spawn, this is a fact. There is a nasty expliot that someone could do to drain all the marine starting res. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It doesn't cost anything for anyone to spawn <i>unless</i> tournament mode is enabled.
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