Stop With The Wol

Frogg2

<div class="IPBDescription">they wont stop the jpers</div> gorges WoL are pretty out of date tactic.

You must spread the OCs out inside the hive. Try to get a few in high places so that the jpers will take some dmg from the OCs.

That_Annoying_Kid

yeah, but you can Wol crucial choke points

TheMuffinMan

yep, i use pair em in groups of 2 at the entrance to my hive then spread the remaining ocs in corners of my hive room, putting them on high ground when possible

Stakhanov

By the time marines have JP , you should have web , else it's almost GG anyway.

AIRinc_FaReZ

<!--QuoteBegin--Stakhanov+Mar 30 2003, 05:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Mar 30 2003, 05:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the time marines have JP , you should have web , else it's almost GG anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
not if they are jet rushing. jet rush = below 8 mins. but single or maybe double ots spread out along the route leading to the hive works well. force jps to constantly evade ocs, not just jet over one big clump and stay safe the rest of his journey.

Cypher

I mostly use WoL's to just make the marines do something else other than passing on through easily. When I build WoL's, I always leave a small space open, for a marine to go through, but also put a small peice of web on the floor there, they dont notice it in their struggle to get past. I also put webs above them, and an oc behind it, so when the jpers get caught in the top webs, they are flung into the lone oc behind the WoL.

Redmonkey

I just played a game yesterday where the marine's Commander was VERY adept at the tech rush. They relocated immediately to uplink (two res point...) (forget the map...grrr). Within seven to eight minutes of the start of the game half his team was equipped with jet packs and hmgs, and he was crankin' out upgrades all over the place.
We eventually won once our gorges got our second hive up, but DAAAAAAAMN we were all scared for a while. Tech rush = Not fun for aliens.

lagger

There were so many false facts in this thread that I couldnt even quote them all.... JP RUSH isnt under 8 minutes.... unless they are recycling... or dont get hmgs... or if for all accounts the alien team lets them have 3+ rsr nodes... NORMAL jp rush's r ~10-12 minutes to get and then you add 1-8 minutes killing the hive... *trying to kill hive*. ITS NOT A JP RUSH IF YOUR 2nd HIVE IS UP bEFORE THERE JP's. One more point is that.. chokes lack the good depending... if you make a choke.. say for maint and can cut the passage off making jp's sit and spam the wol.. then its an ok thing.. provided that you have guys protecting it.. so they can rush etc... if its a wol.. that jpers can fly over.. your better off spamming them in corners.

AIRinc_FaReZ

i dont see why jet rushes HAVE to be paired with hmgs. ive seen clans do it just as successfully without hmgs. 6 jetbo lmgs pwnz hive. hmgs are overkill. and PLEASE use commas and SINGLE periods.

Amorphous

Well, if the gorge knows what he is doing, then yes, Wols are still effective. Just put some off towers in places that can reach the top of the hive, also. Some spaces cannot be effectivly blocked off with wols though. and webs are always a good idea.

AIRinc_FaReZ

dont bring in webs into discussion because almost any marine tactic fails if there is a gorge and sufficient backup at two hives. even 4 ha marines die quickly when they are all webbed and 3 fades are hacking at them. although i do agree that webs increase wol effectiveness greatly.

MiffedRed

wols have their place imo, further out, in seige places (not everyone does jp rush) and dot ocs around inside the hive and plenty of dcs under hive to aid it's speedy recovery from lone chancers and slow down damage from seige until (hopefully) it can be taken out by the rest of the team

wols are also useful as forward bases for attacking aliens, if you create a good enough wol, your attackers can stand there almost untouched by marine fire as they launch their assault

Aminal

<!--QuoteBegin--AIRinc.F|aReZ+Mar 30 2003, 08:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AIRinc.F|aReZ @ Mar 30 2003, 08:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Stakhanov+Mar 30 2003, 05:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Mar 30 2003, 05:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the time marines have JP , you should have web , else it's almost GG anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not if they are jet rushing. jet rush = below 8 mins. but single or maybe double ots spread out along the route leading to the hive works well. force jps to constantly evade ocs, not just jet over one big clump and stay safe the rest of his journey. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that you should have web by the time they have JP's. If they have JPs you let them get too much res too early.

you dont have time to build WOL in 8 mins. You wont have the res comming in fast enough.

Frogg2

Keep in mind the number of chambers it takes to make 1 WoL.

Would you rather have the marines be able to slip past one going up or have OCs and DCs in the hive were they will morelikely have a chance of hitting jpers.

Amorphous

You need to learn to distribute them well, thats all.

Stoneburg

It's totally pointless to discuss anti-JP tactics if you assume you have two hives. If you have two hives <b>JP-tactics aren't a problem</b>. You don't need WoL's at all if you have two hives.

Don't have fades yet? Get some webs up, JP:er falls to ground and gets eaten by skulks. Or you can just get one lerk to sit on the hive and umbra it and you're safe, it takes a bit over 2 clips HMG rounds to kill a hive. With umbra on it that is over 12 clips. Even if <b>no</b> rounds are fired at the aliens that are jumping at the JP:er(s) (highly unlikely) it would take a team of <b>six</b> JP-ers <b>two</b> (awfully slow) reloads to finish the hive.

Basically a semi-competent Alien team <b>can't</b> lose to a JP-rush if they have two hives (not to mention that if the aliens have two hives it isn't a "rush".



Now, back to the <b>real</b> topic. The best cmaber placement IMNSHO is:

1 on top of the hive (lazy JP-ers like to sit on the hive and shoot, even if they don't this chamber can fire at high-soaring JP-ers that some other chambers might not.

4 or so chambers spread out in the room for random fire against the JP-ers, just generally making their lives as hard as possible.

And the <b>most</b> effective ones, which I always use but for some reason have never seen anyone else use, seal off the most used entrance. JP:ers usually have a favorite route towards the hive. Computer Core on Eclipse for example. Almost all JP:ers will go through the vent leading from PSJ to CC. That vent has an excellent place for 2 OC's (or 4 OC's and 2 DC's if you have the res). That one ALWAYS gets at least one JP kill. JP:ers <b>love</b> using vents to get to the hive because that gives the aliens the least chance to know they are coming, but it is also by far the easiste place to kill them. In addition to the chambers you may want to have some skulks camping the common vent entrances.

Also, pretty much the routes to all hives on all maps have places with low ceilings or other features suited for ambushes. Two or three skulks can take down JP:ers easy (or at leats soften them up for the OC's) under the right conditions.

Oh, and how can you say "it takes so or so long to get that"? Are you aware of the resource model at all? It all depends on <b>team size</b>. A marine team with 10+ players don't even have to cap a single res to be able to pull it off before your gorge can even get the 2:nd hive <b>started</b>, much less up. I actually got JP-rushed (LMG's) before our 2:nd RT was up on a 9vs9 server, and we hadn't even built a D chamber. Of course the opposite is true as well and Marines have to work much harder to get a JP-rush with 6 or less players.

That_Annoying_Kid

plus if they are trying to tech rush, they usually don't have turrets, and then WoL came be very usefull if put in marine base (mwahahaha)

Mongoose

On a 20 player server i was just playing on i was able to take and hold 4 res points.. we had heavy armor on half the team + 3 hmgs in 2 min 11 secounds... needless to say the aliens got stomped hard.

Stoneburg

Since upgrading the armory takes 2 minutes you must have:

Built an IP
Built an armory
Handed out 3 HMG's

In a total of 11 seconds.


To get HA you need an armslab and proto lab as well. And HA research takes 1:40.

IP(22)+Armory(25)+Upgrade(35)+Armslab(45)+Proto(45)+Research(50)= 222

This would leave you 31 seconds from the start of the round to get: 222 res, and you also capped 4 res points, that's another 88 res. Assuming you didn't give out a single medpack/welder/mine (totally possible) you'd have to get a total of 310 res for the 2:11 minutes, not a problem maybe, but you'd need at least 222 of them within 31 seconds of round start, none of which you can spend on RT's.


<yoda voice>Sense, you do not make, hrrm?</yoda voice>

AIRinc_FaReZ

Maybe it would be 11 mins and 2 secs. That would be a tad more believable i think. Hell even a jp rush involving the recylcing of arms lab doesnt go that fast.

Trojan2

We dont even bother with HMGs. why spend 35 res to up grade armory then 22 res per player when you can give out shotties for 16. One IP, One armory, One Adv armory, One Proto. Upgrade for JP Maby drop a res node in there. We can get a JP/shotgun rush in air in about 3 minutes. Listen for hive sounds, bypass encountered aliens, 3 JPers with 2 shotties, one lmg. LMG locks down hive, meaing kill spawnign skulks and cover doors. The two shotgunners kill the hive with like 2 magazines into it each.
If teams are larger then 8 on 8 we can kill the hive right about when 1st Res tower gets done. Even if all of them die before hive goes down its probley going to be nearly dead and it will just be a matter of getting a few mags of LMG on it.