The Two-hive Lock-down.
Chopper_Dave1
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2353Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2353Members
<div class="IPBDescription">It's coming back in a big way, baby.</div> I think it's interesting - the NS alien community has evolved in such a fashion that it plays solely in anticipation of the jetpack rush. Usually, this means securing as many of the map's resources as possible, holding off choke points, and basically controlling more territory than the marines. Which is a good thing, by the way.
But the thing is, empty hive protection has dropped on most players' priority lists. Well, unless hive protection ranks among the top concerns of a map (i.e. refinery on bast).
Case in point: NS_Nancy. Most alien players will defend mess hall, and only mess hall. For good reason, too, because mess hall leads to most every other part of the map. But if you can sneak just one marine past auxiliary generator into noname hive (provided it isn't taken, but if it is, you can still use aux gen as a roundabout sneaky path to subspace), then you can easily link it with a phase gate without aliens even knowing the better. Chances are, they'll be so busy keeping mess secure to even patrol noname (or subspace or port, for that matter). Either hive is a nice springboard in which you can go and secure Port Engine - and all it takes is an armory and a healthy amount of mine spam to make a hive yours.
Hera is the exact same way: so many players are intent on protecting processing, that they'll actually neglect to defend the actual INSIDES of the hives. You'd be surprised how easily you can sneak someone into ventilation hive and get in mined and phases, and likewise for archiving.
I think the main phycological thing going on with most aliens is that they figure, "Well, the marines have two hives for now, but we'll just gather resources and when we have enough for a hive, we'll rush and take a hive back. Marines never can hold two hives to a skulk rush, anyways." The problem with this thinking is that it operates on the assumption that the hive will only have a phase gate and turrets. If you make each hive a minefield, leaving practically no space on the ground to walk on without tripping a mine, then aliens will never, EVER get that hive back. Well, at least not without gorge spit. But good luck to that brave gorge who tries to do that...
The eventual point being that, with the new tool of smart mine placement and the psycology of alien players, it's easier than ever to succeed in a 2-hive-lockdown and win the game as marines. Try it (again) sometime: you might be surprised.
But the thing is, empty hive protection has dropped on most players' priority lists. Well, unless hive protection ranks among the top concerns of a map (i.e. refinery on bast).
Case in point: NS_Nancy. Most alien players will defend mess hall, and only mess hall. For good reason, too, because mess hall leads to most every other part of the map. But if you can sneak just one marine past auxiliary generator into noname hive (provided it isn't taken, but if it is, you can still use aux gen as a roundabout sneaky path to subspace), then you can easily link it with a phase gate without aliens even knowing the better. Chances are, they'll be so busy keeping mess secure to even patrol noname (or subspace or port, for that matter). Either hive is a nice springboard in which you can go and secure Port Engine - and all it takes is an armory and a healthy amount of mine spam to make a hive yours.
Hera is the exact same way: so many players are intent on protecting processing, that they'll actually neglect to defend the actual INSIDES of the hives. You'd be surprised how easily you can sneak someone into ventilation hive and get in mined and phases, and likewise for archiving.
I think the main phycological thing going on with most aliens is that they figure, "Well, the marines have two hives for now, but we'll just gather resources and when we have enough for a hive, we'll rush and take a hive back. Marines never can hold two hives to a skulk rush, anyways." The problem with this thinking is that it operates on the assumption that the hive will only have a phase gate and turrets. If you make each hive a minefield, leaving practically no space on the ground to walk on without tripping a mine, then aliens will never, EVER get that hive back. Well, at least not without gorge spit. But good luck to that brave gorge who tries to do that...
The eventual point being that, with the new tool of smart mine placement and the psycology of alien players, it's easier than ever to succeed in a 2-hive-lockdown and win the game as marines. Try it (again) sometime: you might be surprised.
Comments
Best tactic ever: Don't attack the hive with JP/HMG, just sit back and let them get a second hive. Use the JP/HMG to secure nodes and stuff. Tech battle those fades for fun.
A) spit them mines
B) single handedly gorge rush your start base becuase your so damn busy securing both hives.
But the thing is, empty hive protection has dropped on most players' priority lists. Well, unless hive protection ranks among the top concerns of a map (i.e. refinery on bast).
Case in point: NS_Nancy. Most alien players will defend mess hall, and only mess hall. For good reason, too, because mess hall leads to most every other part of the map. But if you can sneak just one marine past auxiliary generator into noname hive (provided it isn't taken, but if it is, you can still use aux gen as a roundabout sneaky path to subspace), then you can easily link it with a phase gate without aliens even knowing the better. Chances are, they'll be so busy keeping mess secure to even patrol noname (or subspace or port, for that matter). Either hive is a nice springboard in which you can go and secure Port Engine - and all it takes is an armory and a healthy amount of mine spam to make a hive yours.
Hera is the exact same way: so many players are intent on protecting processing, that they'll actually neglect to defend the actual INSIDES of the hives. You'd be surprised how easily you can sneak someone into ventilation hive and get in mined and phases, and likewise for archiving.
I think the main phycological thing going on with most aliens is that they figure, "Well, the marines have two hives for now, but we'll just gather resources and when we have enough for a hive, we'll rush and take a hive back. Marines never can hold two hives to a skulk rush, anyways." The problem with this thinking is that it operates on the assumption that the hive will only have a phase gate and turrets. If you make each hive a minefield, leaving practically no space on the ground to walk on without tripping a mine, then aliens will never, EVER get that hive back. Well, at least not without gorge spit. But good luck to that brave gorge who tries to do that...
The eventual point being that, with the new tool of smart mine placement and the psycology of alien players, it's easier than ever to succeed in a 2-hive-lockdown and win the game as marines. Try it (again) sometime: you might be surprised. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with the fact that it is coming back; and that its overall effectiveness cannot be doubted. But do you remember? This was one of the earliest tactics used and the memorey of it is still lodged deep into the Kharaa Players mind. They will catch this if they see it; and know well how to deal with its threat. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Owned.
Lol, I was thinking the same thing.
On pubs I see this far more than JP/HMG, for sure.
As for defending locations from the outside, this is something I've been doing for a while. I could never understand why commanders would drop turrets and a phase <b>inside</b> sewer hive. It is much better to drop turrets and a siege or two outside in pumping station, where you get a res node as well. The same could be said about generator hive. You could secure the auxiliary generator res node and drop a factory along the wall closest to generator hive. Sure, you wont have anything inside the actual hive, but you can easily have sieges in range of taking down the hive. Plus you get a res node. You could probably do this in stability also, but that has more entrances and odd angles of attack.
Isn't battle theory interesting?
I'm pretty sure that you can't reach the hive from there. Stability is a better option.
Mind you, everytime I got them JP/HMG early, I found myself totally deficient of 'skilled' jet packers, so I guess I can see why they didnt like that strat. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> When I switched to two hive lockdown, it was costing me a fortune in res to put up all the TF's and then upgrade them for seige guns, but they still whined for JP/HMG while I was locking down the hives. On one map the aliens caught us all napping in ventilation hive. We built all the stuff up near the res point in ventilation and some stealthy gorge snuck in and built the hive right under our noses. I just dropped the first siege in vent, as the fades ran up the ladder t from the bottom of the hive. Doh!
I think the two hive lockdown is something the marines can easily understand and execute. The JP/HMG strat falls apart when people don't know all the different routes to a hive, or they fail to understand the concept of protecting the res points, rather then the hive locations.
But the thing is, empty hive protection has dropped on most players' priority lists. Well, unless hive protection ranks among the top concerns of a map (i.e. refinery on bast).
Case in point: NS_Nancy. Most alien players will defend mess hall, and only mess hall. For good reason, too, because mess hall leads to most every other part of the map. But if you can sneak just one marine past auxiliary generator into noname hive (provided it isn't taken, but if it is, you can still use aux gen as a roundabout sneaky path to subspace), then you can easily link it with a phase gate without aliens even knowing the better. Chances are, they'll be so busy keeping mess secure to even patrol noname (or subspace or port, for that matter). Either hive is a nice springboard in which you can go and secure Port Engine - and all it takes is an armory and a healthy amount of mine spam to make a hive yours.
Hera is the exact same way: so many players are intent on protecting processing, that they'll actually neglect to defend the actual INSIDES of the hives. You'd be surprised how easily you can sneak someone into ventilation hive and get in mined and phases, and likewise for archiving.
I think the main phycological thing going on with most aliens is that they figure, "Well, the marines have two hives for now, but we'll just gather resources and when we have enough for a hive, we'll rush and take a hive back. Marines never can hold two hives to a skulk rush, anyways." The problem with this thinking is that it operates on the assumption that the hive will only have a phase gate and turrets. If you make each hive a minefield, leaving practically no space on the ground to walk on without tripping a mine, then aliens will never, EVER get that hive back. Well, at least not without gorge spit. But good luck to that brave gorge who tries to do that...
The eventual point being that, with the new tool of smart mine placement and the psycology of alien players, it's easier than ever to succeed in a 2-hive-lockdown and win the game as marines. Try it (again) sometime: you might be surprised. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've said this so many times, but one more could not hurt. It is NOT neccesary to lockdown 2 hives with mines phasegates and turrets. All you need to do is prevent the alien gorge from expanding there, and thats not too difficult either.
Here my problem with 2 hive lock down: It takes about the same ammount of time for the marines to completely lock down one hive, as it does for an alien to start their second hive and start securing it. Marines take one hive, aliens take one hive, aliens win because leap, web and fades tear the crap out of your unupgraded marines, because you decided to lockdown a hive.
Not to mention that carapaced skulks will be going after your unupgraded marines whenever they get the chance, and will make it extrememly difficult to take even one hive, nevermind two, this is assuming you playing aliens that are not scrubs.
Versus competent aliens, the two hive lockdown is Obselete, it requires too many resources and too much time to lockdown even one hive. Instead of locking down hives, try pressuring the aliens, and expanding rapidly so you can get JP/HA and an upgraded armory, AND enough resources to outfit your squad.
I'm pretty sure that you can't reach the hive from there. Stability is a better option.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, you are correct. It is possible from stability however.
I reason I don't like 2-hive lockdown is if you fail to get that second hive, or you lose a hive shortly after locking it down, your screwed.
You've spent so much res locking down (or trying to) 2 hives that if it goes wrong you aren't upgraded to fight fades. This is aggravated by the fact that you've usually sacrificed map control and the aliens have got more res then they can spend. This means the hive and WOLs go up pretty much instantly.
Fun for the commander, frustrating for the marines who basically have their hands tied because of the lack of upgrades.
I reason I don't like 2-hive lockdown is if you fail to get that second hive, or you lose a hive shortly after locking it down, your screwed.
You've spent so much res locking down (or trying to) 2 hives that if it goes wrong you aren't upgraded to fight fades. This is aggravated by the fact that you've usually sacrificed map control and the aliens have got more res then they can spend. This means the hive and WOLs go up pretty much instantly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I was in a pub where my buddy [ReD]Mogg and I did a 1 hive lockdown. Only thing is, we locked down their starting hive by placing turrets at all the entrances (It was comp core on Eclipse) including the subjunction vent. Basically the game was really boring for the alien side because we had mines turrets, and phasegates at all the entrances. A lot of people left because they were basically helpless against our turrets. Eventually we got JP/HMG and finished the game after about 30 mins of toying around.
It really was a boring game, but the regulars on the server assumed we were gonna JP/HMG rush as soon as we could, but we delayed it a good ammount of time.
I reason I don't like 2-hive lockdown is if you fail to get that second hive, or you lose a hive shortly after locking it down, your screwed.
You've spent so much res locking down (or trying to) 2 hives that if it goes wrong you aren't upgraded to fight fades. This is aggravated by the fact that you've usually sacrificed map control and the aliens have got more res then they can spend. This means the hive and WOLs go up pretty much instantly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whats the point? Aliens can still kill you with 2 hives...
Might as well just start teching off the bat.
I've been asked many times by an alien team when were gonna get around to killing them in a 2-hive lockdown situation and my usual reply is as soon as our damn comm quits droppin mines and turrets gaves us some upgrades and weapons funded by our measly 3 RTs (2 if we've had to relocate).
So yeah, I forgot my other reason for not liking 2-hive lockdown. It's really boring <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
/me waits for an epic TeoH post <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
!
Oh, sorry to dissapoint, i was just idling in the thread ;D
A) spit them mines
B) single handedly gorge rush your start base becuase your so damn busy securing both hives. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You never EVER want to attack the marine base if they secured both hives. They will always relocate to a hive. Thats just makes it that much harder to take down a hive, its alot easier to take out a base when marines are spread over 3 areas instead of just 2. Maybe have a diversionary attack on the base, while the real attack comes to the hive? That would require too much teamwork, much more than the average team can do.