The Matrix
Merkaba
Digital Harmony Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
Digital Harmony Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">A question.</div> I assume we are all comfortable enough with our knowledge of The Matrix here to know what I'm talking about, so I'll get straight to the point.
The computers created the Matrix to simulate a time during humanities timescale that was at the peak of their civillisation, to keep everyone sane.
So why would you want to destroy this illusion, if it is at the <i>peak</i> of human civilisation? Surely, 'the peak' suggests the most vibrant and accomplishing time of our existance, so why would you want to leave it? *Especially* after seeing what the world <i>really</i> looks like, and how much effort would be involved to restore the earth to some sort of habitable status.
Blue pill, please...
The computers created the Matrix to simulate a time during humanities timescale that was at the peak of their civillisation, to keep everyone sane.
So why would you want to destroy this illusion, if it is at the <i>peak</i> of human civilisation? Surely, 'the peak' suggests the most vibrant and accomplishing time of our existance, so why would you want to leave it? *Especially* after seeing what the world <i>really</i> looks like, and how much effort would be involved to restore the earth to some sort of habitable status.
Blue pill, please...
Comments
Live and learn. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Either you live happily but stay ignorant or you gain knowledge and lose your paradise...
I would prefer the latter.
The Matrix is an Eden. But it is not real. It is forced servitude, somewhere where we are not truly human. It is an unreal-reality.
We, as a result of our nature, cannot stand to live under forced servitude. Even the blacks revolted time to time.
The reason humans revolt against the forced servitude of the Matrix is because of that underlying human...desire to want to know the truth. Not just truth with bells and whistles but the truth that needs no polishing. Think of modern scientists, people who sacrifice everything for that underlying desire to know everything and know it well.
The quote (not exact) that sums it all:
"Take the blue pill and you wake up. This has only been a dream.
Take the red pill and you see exactly how far down the rabbithole this all goes."
Humans, by nature, want freedom. Give me a nice healthy red pill.
So... you kill time by trying to overthrow the robots. What do you have better to do? Convince some idealistic folks like Neo and what's-her-name-hottie to get on the team, and things get a lot more interesting. Besides, if you win, you now have all the time in the world to figure out how to 'untorch' the sky (whatever that means), and get back to making skyscrapers and grilled cheese. Only reason I can come up with...
I hope Ryo and Eggmac stumble across the topic, they'll probably say they should just reason with the robots, being enslaved is not so bad, someday they'll have their freedom, and that how many innocent robots have to die to free the human race... but I doubt their senses of humour will appreciate the joke...
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<a href='http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/phi.html' target='_blank'>Philosophy and the Matrix</a> at <a href='http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/phi.html' target='_blank'>http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/phi.html</a>
[edit]Okay, so reading all of the essays can take awhile, true. But it's good stuff, really. I think the essays that address this specific question most directly are in the 1st half, those posted when the "Philosophy and the Matrix" idea was first launched.[/edit]
If I was in the matrix, I would hate it, every day I would wonder what it would be like to be something and someone else. I'm willing to bet my over-active imagination and silly sense of humor would constantly give the damn code a hell of alot of errors, and what would happen to all the dreams I have while I'm sleeping and awake currently? I would feel so hopeless, without my dreams, and that would make me furious, frightened, and depressed; a lethal combination. I would probably be doing various "extreme" sports, flaunting with my own demise, perhaps I would be overly violent towards other denziens of the matrix, most likely I would never be able to stay still. End result I believe would be that my fighting spirit would get the best of me, and I would either become an agent of zion or end up in some prison in the matrix.
If I was a born and bred human of zion, I would probably have a fanatical hate for the AI machines and how they have forced me to hide, rather than be a master of my domain. All my will would be bent towards my ascendancy back to my position of dominance in this land of two species of self aware intelligence. And since "snot", the cold comfort of caves and metallic walls, and the non-invasive computer systems would be all I know, I would probably find comfort in knowing I was engaged in a with other human beings in a very close social manner because we share the same goal of tearing down the AI machines and bringing ourselves back into that place of dominance.
What kind of human beings would there be in that time, how would we have evolved have spent life under ground and/or very familiar with cybernetic systems and advanced technology. Would even see each other with even a hint of racism since we were all allied against a common enemy, for better or worse. If we, the humans, did win and shut off all the AI machines human batteries, what then? Would we resume fighting each other for dominance and seperating ourselves along the lines of races and traditions that no longer exist? Would the former denziens of the matrix be able to handle it, would they get along with zion, would they view them as saviours or sadists, would they all die in their pods? It occurs to me that the social order and conditions that humans would be used to then, would be so radically different then we are used to now in 2003, that they would be in a perfect state to go out and explore the universe together as one unified group, being more used to closed in spaces and much more "enlightened" minds thanks to the ease of use of gaing information and much more adept with cybernetic matrixes and advanced technology on a personal basis and having powerful, healthy, surviving physical bodies on essential food, water, and air.
Holy ****, the world of the matrix is so much more efficient and zen and closer to God and what not. Talk about most ideal outcome of the worst possible future of humankind. Forged in the fires of hell, compasionate as heaven, how bad would it be to have such an incredibly powerful human population? No wonder that city is called "Zion"...
Perhaps breaking free of the Matrix would enable humanity to have a second chance at existence, and maybe we <i>would</i> do things right this time, especially considering the amount of effort that would have to go into rebuilding the world (as opposed to right now where we are simply wrecking it). I wonder what the next two movies have to say on this matter?
Red Pill = The Horrid Truth
Bring on the red pill, any day, any time, any where. The truth supercedes any sugar coated lie in my books any day of the week, even if the truth is unpleasent, I still want it layed out on the table with no sugar coating whatsoever.
The machines represent a threat to humanity. We are not cattle. We are not subservient. We are human, we must be the dominant form of life on this world. It would be different if it were humans that had uploaded their conciousness onto the machines, as they would still be in all essentiality, human. Machines were created by men, for men. Not the other way around.
All this talk of the Matrix wants me to find a copy on DVD... curse you! You're from the DVD companies, aren't you!?
A perfect example of how ignorance is bliss.
We don't even like the people we elect to rule us, we riot and rebel. Even if we're living in paradise, we still want to be in charge. There's the occasional exception to this, like Cipher. The pacifists that would rather sit back and coast along in life. *cough* DoomManiac *cough*
I'm not sure what Neo and his mob are fighting for, Morpheous said it himself, "Once a mind has reached a certain age, it has trouble letting go". Even if all the prisoners of the Machine get dumped back into the moat and dragged ashore, I think most of them would regret leaving. Many of them would try to commit suicide to escape the hell that is reality.
I am going to agree with doom on this one (SHOCK HORROR), It's mostly dependant on who you are.
Personally I wouldn't like to live a lie, I don't like lies. There are necessary deceptions, like telling your mother that you're sorry that you ate the last bit of delicious pai, but there's no real reason to lie. This is my philosophy.
--Scythe--
A perfect example of how ignorance is bliss. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't decide whether or not you're saying the world was just as bad back then and I didn't know about it, or what...
If that is what you were saying, well, the world was a lot better for me personally back then. *shrug*
A perfect example of how ignorance is bliss. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't decide whether or not you're saying the world was just as bad back then and I didn't know about it, or what...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, there's almost always something largely negative going on. It's simply that the only time most of us 'commoners' know about it is when the media jumps all over it.
/me takes the red pill, swallows it, then asks for another.
As some of you may have imagined, and can probably understand, if you know my stance on such matters of philosophy, is that I'm a little touchy when it comes to asking if we're just living in a dream.
For me, this question is always a stumbling block. Is the life I live, the life of following and carrying out, lets just say it, the will of God, is it just a mentally-induced paradise dream-world, or is this something tangiable that I have blundered into by His will alone, and have decided to follow His calling.
I believe it is the second one. If it were not, if it were something that I've made up for myself in order to help myself through life, then is everything extraordinary that has happened in my life, that I cannot attribute to my own actions, or the actions of other people, really just a coincidence?
I don't think there's a real answer, nothing absolute that I can suddenly find the answer to. Some will say that it is a self-induced matrix, some will say that it is the real deal. I believe the second one, I think, and I believe, that I have found the path which that red pill has allowed me to see. It's hard, it's demanding, and I don't know where it goes. The only thing that makes it bearable is that there is something greater than myself within and around me helping to pick me up when I fall down.
Legionnaired gulps another red pill.
I don't want to turn this into another religious discussion, like that 16-page epic that we created a few months ago... where is that.... I guess it got deleted out of inactiity.
Anyway, this is my stance. Anyone wishing to protest it, there's a little "New Thread" button near the bottom of your screen. I urge you to click it now.
this is actualy a common phylisophical question, does what you don't know hurt you?
I say 'ells no!
I meen, yes there are times when what you don't know can hurt you but I am specificly refering to this idea:
"If you could live the exact life you wanted with out ever knowing that it was a fake, would you want to?"
I unfortunatly was absent the day my philosophy clas went over this, I come back thenext day to find that the entire fuggenm class agreed with the prof that this would be 'bad for us'
BS I SCREAM!
Reality is what you make of it.
Remember the quote on the protien mush (how do we know that thisn't actualy what steak tastes like?)
well you can aply that ot RL, how do we know that any of this is real? You just have to accept that it is or else you go loopy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hey Legion, how would you like to have your life so that you do work for everything you gain, all of your hard work bears fruit?
wouldn't you like that? Just b/c you have your perfect life dosn't mean that it is simple, I know I would grow board if I had nothing to ever chalenge me.
hehe, /me hands legion a blue, you knwo you want it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Follow The White Rabbit Neo.
Thers's no spoon.
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Here's a fun thought for you: what if the only way you could be put into the dreamworld would be if you voluntarily took the blue pill? And if you, knowing yourself, know that you would take the blue pill given the option... well, how do you know that you DIDN'T?
We red-pillers have that much more assurance that we're living a world that's as real as it gets.
A person can no more accept the blue pill then a sheep can accept going through the slaughterhouse door when they know what is beyond it.
Let me draw an analogy.
In the book entitled "The White Mountains" written by John Christopher, the world is ruled by giant mechanical Tripods. These Tripods control men by capping them at the age of fourteen. The cap is a silvery mesh that is fused to the flesh and (presumably) makes men docile and obedient to the tripods. Life is idyllic for the protagonist, but think. The caps end all enquiry, all challenging thought. The matrix, likewise, does something simialar. The matrix robs you of your right to reality, the machines rob you of your humanity. You are fed with the goop of the dead, and you power the machines by your body heat. Humans did not evolve to do this. Humans evolved to survive, not to be exploited in this manner.
This may sound strange since we do this to animals, however, animals are not intelligent thinking beings. Humans are. Humans have the right to choose, the machines rob you of that by confining your reality to the matrix. The machines view us as less the animals. Consider, that people that work on farms and slaughterhouses, the very people that exploit animals can form bonds with those animals, feel for them and seek more humane ways of doing their job.
The machines on the other hand do not. They view us as batteries that they can do with as they please. Hell, they view us as a disease! Would you like to live in their cage? True, it is almost real, but a guilded cage is still a guilded cage. Exploitation is still exploitation. If the explotation of our planet can be viewed as a crime, then the forcible exploitation of an intelligent species is heinous and abhorrent.
The machines are no better then we are, contrary to what some may think. They take right after us, seeking to be the dominant species, and reversing the roles (Men are dependent on machines today, in the matrix, the machines are dependent on men). They (the machines) are precisely like us. They are arrogant, proud, dominating, and stupid.
If you take the blue pill, ask yourself this. Would you push yourself through the slaughterhouse door?
Give me the red pill, give me freedom, give me the right to wonder......
Due to my own personal hopes and dreams <i>of the real world we live in</i>, I'd take the Red pill.
The ironic thing is, almost everyone would take the Red pill because everyone wants to know 'The Truth' about everything.
look, if we stick me in the matrix and give me the choice: Red? Blue?
I would quickly nab a blue. I am happy, (mostly), I have freinds and family that love me, I have a girlfriend that I love and loves me in return.
now then, red pill: I will never see my friends/family/GirlFriend again I AIN'T MISTER ANDERSON, I HAVE A LIFE!!!!
Not to mention the pain and suffering my disaperance would have on those same people.
Now what I was discussing before (perfect dream state with life just the way you want it)
oh yah @Chronos: Ok, so every so often you fail, what ever is the perfect balance for you that is what you get. The argument was that you get your PERFECT LIFE there is nothing wrong with it that you can tell. The only thing is that it aint real but there is NO WAY YOU COULD KNOW!
Again, this is why I hate this idea. My only thing that would hold me back from this is that I would hurt those around me by disapearing, however we need to sorta laythat aside b/c it is outa context of the Q.
hehe, its a stupid question and I HATE PHILOSOPHY CLASS <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Do humans truely resent being ruled? It's a tricky question: history seems to have shown to us that humans are basically conservative: big sudden changes shock and frighten us. Revolutions usually have a hard time getting started because of this. Uncertainty and change are frightening prospects for many people.
4 years ago I would have taken the red pill. I wanted nothing more to do with this world. But then I met my now fiancee. I can't imagine life without her. I don't want life without her. So screw it, pass the blue pill.
It's a little too phylisophical to suggest that we'd all want truth over the status quo. Curiosity would dirve many of us to seek the truth, but what good is the truth if you're on a burned out husk of a world dominated by killer robots? One of the characters in the Matrix realises exactly that: the truth is no substitute for pleasure.
Most of us know fast food is bad for us. We still eat it. We know the truth, yet be bypass it because it tastes good. This is what I'm getting at. If life is good and pleasurable, humans have no inpulse to change anything. If life sucks, humans desire change to bring about greater pleasure and satisfaction. What one person considers pleasure and another considers pain however are open for debate from individual to individual...
And because it's a matrix thread:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, goodbye Mr Anderson.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My name...is Ryo...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Chew that one over and still honestly take the blue pill? Sounds a bit selfish to me, a good time to consider if you truely love those other matrix prisoners.
the problem with the blue pill is that you can never be sure if you really are living in the best existence, or the 'peak of humanity'. since there always exists the possibility of another reality dictating yours.
the dilemna seems to be in acknowledging that there is a choice to be made over what is wished to be acknowledged as reality. One can potentially deny giving up one's current bliss but live forever in doubt, or take a chance that may never get you anywhere.
if i was to know that the life i was living was the best i could get, then i would take the blue pill. but how can it ever be the best if i am lead to question if there is a better life? if offered, i would like to think i would take the red pill. in a scenario like The Matrix my life would at least gain a purpose.
But the pills are really just symbols...
It seems to be human nature to push forward.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So why would you want to destroy this illusion, if it is at the peak of human civilisation? Surely, 'the peak' suggests the most vibrant and accomplishing time of our existence, so why would you want to leave it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I, as much as anyone else, cannot be satiated. If there is the offer for something more and the means to get it, whatever i have will not be enough.
all that aside. I exist. My experiences are part of this experience even if they are not truly real. If one day i die to wake up in a vat of goo and get recycled to feed others, i will be laughing as i'm flushed down the tubes.
For me, this something better is truth.
I may not get there, but Ill sure do my damnedest.
<span style='color:red'>Red Pill please</span>